January 3, 2004

(OTH) Other than Honorable Discharge

[update: Hate the military? Are they trying to ruin your life? Debating doing something to get a discharge? If so you may want to look at sites like the GI Rights Hotline, or give them a toll free call at (800) 394-9544.

Getting an other than honorable discharge generally means nothing unless you want it to. If you are on the verge of getting an OTH discharge read the below comments left by hundreds of people to see how common that discharge type is and how many other than honorable people are doing well.

The military tries to make anything other than an honorable discharge sound like a big deal because the military lifestyle is so bad that they need to make alternatives seem bad.

As my honorable friend Mike so eloquently puts it, an OTH discharge is like:

if your life goal was to have a government job and retire on a shitty salary after 20 years of mediocrity: WE FUCKED Ya...otherwise...no biggie

I type this from my home, getting read to go to yet another concert somewhere in the Californian desert. I have no boss and even travel a good bit now. I work when ever I want to. Thanks internet marketing. Thanks to the US Navy for trying to destroy my life.]

Today I got a job offer from a prospective employer. I told him there was no way in hell I was interested in the job, but asked him what it was anyway.

Its funny because the job he wanted to give me was as a civilian Chemical Weapons caretaker in the US Army.

After my recent other than honorable discharge from the US navy I find it rather repulsive that they would still want me for that job.

It just goes to show how slow their feedback loops are and how broken their system is.

A tip for those who feel they achieved an other than honorable discharge in bad faith by their organization. If you know deep down inside that the organization was other than honorable you have absolutely no reason to carry any of that burdon with you and I suggest you just lie about your terms of discharge, as frequently they involve lies about you.

Destroying my work records prior to processing me, for example, was other than honorable.

Posted at January 3, 2004 6:01 AM
Comments

Damn that sucks,
I recieved an oth last year from the USMC, I am in the beginning stages of filing an appeal. I popped for weed. I was in the infantry for almost four years and graduated from multiple schools that required hundreds of hours of mental and phiscal strain. I was fucking short changed. now I hear people are getting off on their first offence.

John Moriarty on January 20, 2004 9:47 AM

Same thing happened to me, I even served in desert storm/shield. I was discharged after 3 years back in 92' Can I still appeal, and if so how?

I got discharged OTH for Cocaine. I refused to give up fellow Marines names, and was harrassed for 6 months and sent home Other Than Honorably. Semper Fidelis meant something to me. If I could somehow re-enlist I would, But I don't know what to do. I have heard that an OTH changes to a regular General after 6 months. Is this so... and if so can I re enlist?

Domenic Wolfe on February 29, 2004 8:38 PM

Domenic...I just read up on what you thought was true, but I have bad news. When you recieve an OTH discharge, it is NOT automatically upgraded after 6 months. You have to spend lots of money and time to achieve the upgrade.

Joey Murphy on March 2, 2004 5:41 PM

I looked even further into the discharge laws. You have 15 yrs to submit an form DD 293 to possibly get an upgrade and then after 15yrs you have to go before a military correction board, or something like that. By that time, most people could give a shit anyways. But if you want to get a start on a hearing, I suggest printing out the form and submitting it.

Joey Murphy on March 2, 2004 6:44 PM

I guess i'm in the same boat as you guys. Get this, I was 3yrs and 9 months into my 4yr contract in the Marine Corps. I received a OTH for Disobeying a lawful order. But when it comes down to it, I was given the boot for breaking restriction. Ain't that some crap.I guess it doesnt pay to be PMO.

I'm in the same boat with you guys. I recieved an OTH after popping positive on a piss test. Some friends and I were on liberty two months into our deployment when we shared a couple joints. We were all frist time offenders and had excellent records. we all ended up getting the boot. My average eval at that point was 3.7 and I had never been in any trouble before that. I have been lying to my employer since 1995 and he has never bothered to check.I've even passed two security checks. So I agree why rat yourself out chances are they will never know. Matt

Whats up? Well anyways i got kicked out for drinking underage. In japan. i recived a general under honorable cicumstances; i would like to know what i need to do to get it upgraded to an honorable because i was found a dependent alcohallic, medicly.I was the same befor i joined the navy. so that would be a medical condition that i had prior to enlisting, whitch should mean that i should have gotten a honorable medical discharge. but insted i got a pattern of miss conduct general discharge, code RE4. if anyone has information let me know BTW FTN.

I think for any discharge upgrade(marines or navy), you have to go to the Naval Board of Corrections. If I remember correctly you have to do a lot of community service and keep a steady job. And you can't get in trouble for ANYTHING! Then after a year, the board reviews your case and then they decide. But 96% of the time they DO NOT upgrade your discharge. I was in the Marines and received an OTH after 3 yrs of active duty. The only time i ever smoked while I was in, i got caught. It wasn't worth it. I was an administrator so I had access to orders, memorandums, SEVNAV's, and MCO's. If you need the paperwork, i will be glad to send it to anyone.

is a medical discharge an honorable discharge?

How long were you in when you got a medical discharge?

I am about to get discharged from the navy for positive urinalisis. Most likely an OTH slight possibility of getting a general. I need some honest answers however. How much has this type of discharge affected your civilian life. Do all of you lie about your discharge? Any advice on what I shpould do? Thanks

Back in '92 I was given an OTH from the USN. It could've been alot worse though. It started as insubordination, then a charge of simple assault on a senior officer. While in a TPU unit in Great Lakes, I left. I came home for 33 days, flew back to GL, turned myself in, and with the help of a civilian attorney (not a public defender) I had on retainer, I was charged with misconduct, not desertion or any other charges. I was discharged 45 days later. In 1997, I had my discharge upgraded to General with the help of my state rep and congressman Tim Holden. Try your elected officials, they all do favors for other gov't officials. Good Luck.

Joey Murphy, don't look into this too hard. A lot of people get their discharges upgraded through elected gov't officials (state reps, senators, congressmen, etc). There's a way around alot of the procedures, you just have to look. You don't even need to spend alot of money, either.

Iwas booted from the army in 2002, popped positive for pot. I had my oth turned to a general to. My parents talked to our state rep, he said he'll look in to it. A month latr, he called and told me to call the congressmans office. in november of 2003 my discharge was upgraded. You know what the sad part is? I work for the USPS as a letter carrier, its a FEDERAL job, i even got it with my oth discharge, so much for background checks.

I just wanted to know any info about adminstration sparation from the Navy because I was interested in any info because of my current status in the military based on a bad decision.

Hey, I having a hard time tring to upgrade my discharge. I popped with 6 months left in my contract and the said thing was that I was drunk ans did some coke. I was a first timer that was the sad thing.the master at arms told me that if I did not admitt to it that I would get court martialed , so I did I wrote a statment. This is not the person I am but it's being three years and I'm working on putting it all together. I need advise on what do to (not the paper work) but on who to talk with,and what to say. I'll fly to washington just so they will here me out,but I just need hope from someone that it is possible and how long should it take. And if there is someone out there that can help or direct me to the right place I would appreciate it so much.

jesus garza jr on June 24, 2004 2:04 AM

I received an oth from the Army in 1988 for a bad piss test. I am looking for any resources that you have, web sites or #'s, to help me look into the inpact or what I can do to change the discharge

My husband got a DUI on base and the navy is giving him the run around. They just sent him to restriction for 2 weeks. They told him if he decided not to show up for work then he would be kicked out for sure and given other than honorable discharge.
Any advise would be helpful. Thanks.

I am in the process of going through an admin sep board for positive ua for coke. I gave the NCIS agent my statement about this guy who gave me a ciggarrette dipped into liquid cocaine substance. Weird thing is that i'm actually innocent of using intentionally.The NCIS agent went and got a signed statement from the guy i went to school with that i didn't have any knowledge of the cocaine being in my possession. I'm in the process of doing undercover work with NCIS, and even checked into a rehab for 28 days just to prove that i'm not a drug abuser or user . if anybody has experienced this or has any advice to give me so i can be retained in the navy i sure would appreciate. Thank you

Can you be recalled to active service with an Other Than Honorable Discharge?

No, you can't be recalled to active service with an OTH only an honorable.

from what I have seen how you are processed depends upon whether or not your chain of command likes you.

one guy on my submarine got in trouble for using cocaine and it was not that big of a deal. I was a horrible person, so bad that they had to destroy my most recent evaluation prior to processing me.

look for errors in your paperwork. they fuck that up like clockwork. don't let them know, but spend the money to have a lawyer look over your paperwork.

i'm getting discharged for a drug pop and i think i'm going to get a general discharge. is this really that bad of a discharge? do employers check for the reason of discharge if i do mention my military service?

daniel treanor on July 21, 2004 1:44 PM

the fact that I got offered a job handling chemical weapons for the government should tell you that their discharge really does not mean that much other than what effects it may have on college stuff.

if you reenlisted and got an honorable discharge with over 3 years of service in prior to the later general drug discharge I think you still get those benefits too. it was that way when I was in, but am not certain if it is still that way. I would check for more guidance on that though if I were still in.

best o luck
aaron

I really am tired of the Navy so much I have 14 months left and my life is just screwed up because I need to be at home in Tampa (where my wife and life is) instead of Jax. I got accepted to a really kickass college and I have a small business that is really picked up, the thing that is holding me down is the damn Navy. I really don't care for the VA crap, the college money is the only reason holding me down, I am not caring any more about the GIBILL and am willing to finish paying for college myself. Does any one know how I can get myself a General? Could I admit to DAPA that I have a drug problem (I don't) and let them send me to rehab or something will they give me a general? Does it really even matter? I need out. I'm tired of it, oh yea I can't get an early out because I am eligible for and SRB. I'm aggravated and ready roll home.

HELLO IM MIKE I WAS ON THE USS BUNKER HILL CG-52
I HAD A POSITIVE PISS TEST FOR METHAMPEDAMINE
GOT A REDUCTION TO E-1 45/45
1/2 PAY TIMES 2
OTH FROM NAVY
BUT I WISH TO REENLIST
CAN ANY ONE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gsmfn michael k mccutcheon on August 13, 2004 2:16 AM

hey i got out of the army, on a oth, about a year ago. basically i had been in for less than 3 years and was going up to the promotion board for e-5 within days, oh btw i was 19 at this time. so anyway i get put on this detail with a bunch of rag-bags and i think to myself "no f'nin way im doing this s***work." so long story short, I tell the NCOIC, batt. CSM, I cannot complete the detail, my comp. cmdr. calls on the phone, and screaming at me. I was told by the CSM not to go anywhere, but my cmdr told me to go back, the SDNCO wouldnt let me leave so i got hit up with disobeying a direct order from a C.O.
the next day they tried to get me to do some more shit work, i tell this NCO i cannot comply. basically, from friends i had that worked in battalion/brigade lvls, where all the talking goes on at, I was told Im going to pensacola for 30 days. I ended up leaving for 31 days came back, and put a chapter 10 in, I was out within 2 weeks. problem is, maybe its just me, but I cant get a job for shit man, im working on going into the navy reserves. but we'll see. my congressman could care less, and forget washington. so basically Im stuck, I got no job, no future it seems, i been living off my brother for a year, and I'm giving up hope. Ive written everyone you can write, called everyone you can call. I dont know what to do. For someone that had no history of bad conduct, no drug use, etc etc, and my commander just gave me a full 150 on my promotion counseling (which never happens), they really fucked me up. b.t.w.. I was and air traffic controller, a damn good one too, but federal jobs and even contract jobs wont even look at me. I see people talking about getting job requests from quasay-military jobs and wonder, wtf? how is this going so horribly for me, yet people are actually offering you jobs? please email me (keep the flames to a minimum) if you have any advise, or are in the same boat, i can tell you all the paths ive tried to take, maybe they'll pan out for you.

Can anyone get any info or #'s to try and get my oth upgrade. Please.

hi, i am 19 and recently i popped on a drug test. I popped for cocain. I hopefully will get a OTH but i dont know. Can any one tell me if my life is ruined? im so young and i want to grow to be old and have a good and healthy life. Is that possible. Pease respond

email address: surfer6702@yahoo.com
thanks js

My husband was in the Navy, and while he was away I got pregnant, I had a terrible pregnancy, and they thought I miscarried, my husband and I were distraught. I went back to the doctor because I felt that I was still pregnant, and I was. I told my husband, but the doctorís said that it would be a slim chance that I and the baby would survive. My husband asked for leave, and since he had just returned from leave 2 months prior. They refused his chit to leave. Well he was sick with the idea that something might happen with me and the baby while he was away stationed in California, and that he would not be here with me. So he left, he went UA, and stayed with me for the remainder of the pregnancy, and was going to turn himself in once he knew the baby and I were safe, when I was 9 months, The Navy came down to Texas, and arrested him, and threw him in the Brig for 2 months. He did not get to see his first born delivered, but God was good, we were okay. Well he received an OTH for leaving, even though we had letters we sent to the Navy during his punishment phase, Doctor Reports, Medical reports, etc.
Now my husband is having the worse time finding a regular job, some have done Military background checks on him even though he chose to leave that information off the application. How can he repair his life? I feel guilty for everything, because he is unable to be a productive member of society, he has to live with the shame of all this, and he did it for me and his son. His son passed away shortly afterwards at 9 mos with SIDS, which was extremely hard on us. If he was in the Navy, he might have not had the chance to spend the 8 mos with his son. Any help?

I recently just tested positive for cocaine on a urinalysis. I admitted to the charge, which I know I shouldn't have. I received 45/45 1/2 months pay x 2, and they are processing me out of the Navy. They are trying to give me an OTH, but I have requested an Admin. Seperation board. I have four questions. 1) What are my chances of getting a General Discharge from the Admin board, and 2)If I do get the OTH how will it effect my life after the Navy, 3) what are my chances of getting it upgraded 4) Does anyone know if there is anyway the VA will still give me the GI bill? I have less then a year left in the Navy. I haven't been charged with anything else, while I have been in. I was also a really good worker and considered to be a good sailor while I was here. If anyone has any anwers for me I would really appreciate your help. Email me @ clarkwr@ogden.navy.mil

Hi William
if your chain of command wanted to look out for you and cared for you then you probably would have had a good chance of doing well.

the 45/45 is interesting because most scumbag commands insist on the 60/60 to ensure they make as much of an example as they can out of you.

if you reelisted after a few years on I think that first enlistment may have had an associated honorable discharge that locks in your benefits. if not you are out of luck.

your chances of a general are all dependant on whether people who are "really important" (in real life more like really petty) think you were a "team player" (which in real life means you kissed a ton of ass)

the lawyer who represented me was given less than favorable reviews in the navy because he actually defended the people he was supposed to defend.

kinda goes to show you what a fucked up place the navy is.

my suggestion as to the effects of your discharge... just do not mention it or lie about it. I tried playing honest and nobody wanted to hire me. First company I failed to mention the navy to brought me on as management.

had I not quit working for them I would have likely ran the entire regional office within 6 months of being employed there.

I can give you a few more funny kickers to my terms of employment but I do not want to ruin the good deal for other people.

I made a website about how horrible the navy is and learning how to promote it I became a successful internet marketer.

There is a reason you this page and were able to post your comments into it ;)

best of luck

just don't take their bullshit with you as something that ruins your life.

perhaps if military suicide were less common and the leaders were a bit more intelligent I could see how they are right...but they are idiots and suicide is common due to high stress and dumb leadership.

In the next year or two I intend to set up a scholorship (paying out of my own pocket) for people who got kicked out of the navy.

Just FYI I got an oth I'd heard about people getting back in, but it takes some work. As long as you didn't get out for drugs or alcohol you can contact an active reserveist and at some points they take re3's, and re4's back in but you have to do active reserves to get an honorable than you can either get out or go full active duty. They also like to see some volunteer work make sure you don't get in trouble etc.

Hey most of you got screwed. I smoked weed and pissed hot on purpose to get kicked out, and my asshole commander knew it and barried it! Then they tried to fuck with me mentally and physically. They were going to try and screw me in the end with as much punishment as possible. Like a dishonrable discharge and prison time at levenworth. But I got the last laugh. I whent over all my commands head straight to the Lt. Colonel and said I was gay. I was Honorably dicharged a week later. Taught all those corrupt fuckoffs. I was in the 101st Airborne Infantry and I gave my heart and soul. Then the bastards in my unit tryed to screw me, and thats why I'm not their and they all are sweating in the Iraq desert. I feel for all of you and wish you had got a better hand like me. Sometimes in life you have to take the better hand. Don't let the world screw you anymore. Fuck the lies, stand up and stick it to everyone who tries to screw you, even the U.S Government.

Hi everyone......I would just like to share my story with you...;.
I enlisted in the USN on Dec 7th 1999. While I was in the Navy of course the drinking increased, (how else are we supposed to deal with the stress of the fucking Navy?). I checked myself into CAAC in Sep of 01 after finding out that my best friend back home had gotten killed in a car accident and of course since it was not a FAMILY member I could not get granted emer. leave, needless to say I went downhill pretty fast. Like I said I checked myself in to treatment went through it and stayed sober for a year and a half. To make a long story short we had a command sweep about 2 yrs later and out of 1500 people my fiance and I were to only 2 to pop on our piss tests when I physically saw at least 100 others popping x also. There was a lot of different occurances that led up to this final factor. It was mem. day weekend, there was a huge party ended popping some x and got kicked out. I know that NCIS was trying to fuck me from day one for some reason. They pulled me in for a "security clearance" when nobody in my division knew anything about it and we all know that you have to be recommended by someone for that. They brought me in there and totally drilled me about everything...remember, this is about a month BEFORE the command sweep. I feel like I was set up...actually I know that I was setup. I knew that I had popped some x, yes i knew that, so while we went in to piss in a cup I dipped my in the toilet to water it down,....and I still popped. Am I crazy or does all of this seem a little fucked up...and then come to find out that my girl in texas(she was the CO's yoeman) popped on a piss test and was let off??????) I would love to hear what everyone thinks about this

Hi Jill, now that hes been discharged he can kick that guys ass at the local bar!

I joined the Corp in 93 spent a year inactive. 2.5 years into my service as a CPL in 2nd LAR BN I popped on a piss test and was booted out with an OTH. What's fucked up is I had NEVER been in trouble.
I'm doing fine now have had a solid job for the past 5 years as a computer technician and I also work as a Mototcycle riding Coach.
Don't let them basterds get you down as long as you keep your service to yourself and stay out of trouble noone will be the wiser.
I'm thinking of reenlisting in the Army as SF..but I can't with my OTH. Has anyone been able to reenlist with an OTH??

Chad




I got totally screwed by one of our own. I am totally ashamed to this day, and would give up everything just to be back. I received an OTH in May and my EAS was in June. Pattern of misconduct so they say. I got NJP for a bad check, which had already been paid. They went to NavyFed and got my records, and sent me to NJP again again for a check that was from at least a year prior. I had a daughter at daycare, and got restricted to the barracks. With my child as their weapon, I was politely convinced to ask for an Admin Discharge. Was basically guarantedd by my SgtMaj that I would get a General Discharge, under Honorable conditions at worst. But llok what I got 2 weeks later, an OTH. I was allowed to get off restriction once I turned in my request. My 1stSgt and CO recommended an OTH and got it. The 1st Sgt was just pissed because he coulnd't knock the boots. I hate them all, but I heard my CO got his in Desert Storm, shot in the Ass. I worked in S-4 and got the 1st Sgt wife before they got me though. I turned in the Paperwork confirming that she failed her last two PFT's and she was forced out as she was a GySgt. So I got some relief. But even with the assholes, I love the Corps, will till the day I day. It's in me and will be forever.

Grow up, quit your whining, and act like adults, all of you. You broke the rules, got caught, and paid the consequences. If you haven't figured that out, then you're destined for more trouble.

"Grow up, quit your whining, and act like adults, all of you."

go fuck yourself

I'm going to get an OTH, for altering my ID to be 21. I just had DRB and all my chiefs want me kicked out. With an OTH, is it hard for me to get a job? Or is it only hard to get a government job? Will i be able to get an upgrade to a general in 6 months, like everyone else says? Does anyone have any tips for me before i go to XOI? And captain's mast?

I recieved a general discharge for minor disiplinary infractions from the airforce 5 years ago and am very interested in reenlisting in the military. Does anyone know if this is possible, and how to go about it..
Any info would be appreciated

i recently tested positive for coke an de on a recent piss test. curently i'm going through the whole ncis investigation b.s., i was wondering if anybody has any experiences with these idiots? i have a real good feeling that they are playing games and such with me. i'm statinoed in japan and today they told me that they were going to have me thrown in japanese jail for doing drugs! that sounds like a load if i've ever hear one. doesn't the SOFA come into play somewhere? isn't it entrapment if they lie to me to get me to tell them information? also, does anybody have any first hand experiences with a positive piss test without a discharge? i'm the sailor of the year at my command (kinda ironic, huh?), and before this, i was the "golden boy". my chain will support me, do i have a chance and if so, what do i need to do?

I WAS BOOTED OUT OF THE NAVY WITH AN OTH DISCHARGE 3 YEARS AGO FOR TESTING POSITIVE FOR COCAINE.I HAVE REALLY TURNED MY LIFE AROUND AND WANT TO JOIN A POLICE ACADEMY TO HAVE A CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT MY TYPE OF DISCHARGE WILL PREVENT ME FROM THIS CAREER.WHAT ARE MY CHANCES OF GETTING MY TYPE OF DISCHARGE CHANGED? I HAVE ALSO BEEN TOLD TO NOT MENTION I WAS IN THE NAVY.DOES ANYONE KNOW IF A BACKGROUND CHECK WOULD INCLUDE THIS?THANKS FOR ANY INFO.

I'm in the Marine Corp. reserves and I may be looking at a OTH for UA. I have a great job and a great amount of bills. I cant aford to go over to Iraq for a year. I enlisted before all of this happen and joined for the displin and core values. I have 14 months left in my contract, with a outstanding record. I need to know if my employer will find out about my OTH and if so how if any way can I hind it from them. I have not gone UA yet but this the only way I know of to keep from going. If anyone has any other things they might know of to get a discharge let me know.

hey stop being ignorant asses! Don't accept a OTH discharge if you don't have to! Say you are gay and you will get a honorable discharge!
Just play it off right. Don't get screwed with a OTH after all your hard work and suffering. Think about it can u live with a honorable and have said u were gay, ore a OTH?

Signed up for active duty in the Army for four years, but less than a year into my contract I was given a chapter 5-18 due to unforseen circumstances. I was then placed into the IRR, but was later told that I could be recalled to active duty by my previous unit. Is this true?
If so, what are my chances of actually being called back to active duty?

Hey, I got an OTH from the Navy in February, I popped positive for meth. I stayed out in Cali for a while and couldn't get work out there, so I came home to New York. I can't get any work out here either. Luckily my girlfriend has a good job and has been pulling the weight, but I want that to stop. I have been doing odd jobs, mostly helping people move, cutting lawns, etc. just for some cash. I can't keep that up, its just not enough money. Not even close. I'll work on upgrading my discharge soon enough, but right now finding work is priority. Does anyone have any advice on what I'm supposed to do? Should I just not even mention the Navy on applications? I don't know, I'm running out of options and patience.

I am trying to get out because I am not suited for the Navy and the CO said Hell no. So I messed up and told him that I have a fraudulent enlistment. Am I going to get an OTH? They still need me to prove it so I can get out. But now that I think of it I could probably try for undue hardship at home because my mom is coming down with neuropothy in her legs and my grandma who we live with is constantly borrowing money and getting in debt. They need me at home. I am just past my 180 days I am only at like 200 or so so I couldn't get a failure to adapt from this ass of a CO. I really am not that scared of an OTH but I would rather not get one. What do you think the chances of getting an OTH are going to be? What should I do? I am not suited to this lifestyle. I wanted to go up and ask to be transferred to the reserves but he just grilled me and I lost my motive. What can I do now?

Why don't any of the questions about renlistment get answered, or those about can you get a civilian goverment job wit an OTH???????

"Why don't any of the questions about renlistment get answered, or those about can you get a civilian goverment job wit an OTH???????"

I have not answered them because I do not know the answers to them and would not be interested in obtaining said jobs.

I did get called and offered a job as a civilian working for the Army taking care of chemical weapons after I got my other than honorable discharge. I never followed up on it though.

I was in the navy in 1994-1996 and popped + on a wiz quiz for THC, the thing is, I have never smoked pot before or after, always got better than a 3.5 on my evals, and Always paid attention to detail. I was at a party with a lot of other people Officers and Enlisted, we all were a little drunk, OK really drunk some one passed a joint around and I tried some, honestly, it didnít do anything for me, I never got "high", never felt the effects, just coughed a lot. Then I decided I never wanted to do it again,
A week later, I had to take a wiz quiz, I didnít think much of it until another week went buy and I got called into the security office and was told that I had popped + on the wiz quiz for THC. So I TOLD THE TRUTH and said I got drunk and tried a little bit of the weed. They gave me two choices, I could be kicked out with 30 days suspension or 3 days bread and water, naturally I picked the thirty days suspension, but with all of the 4-hour nights while on watch during my suspension, I missed a muster and they gave me 3 days bread and water on top of the suspension.
More over, some of the other people who popped + that were at the party lied during the court marshal and said that they were fed brownies with weed in them, they got to stay in with a slap on the wrist. My advice, if you want to save face, donít tell the truth, if you get popped for weed, tell them that you didnít know the cookies were laced.
Needles to say I got an OTH and I think that I was unfairly treated, I volunteered to served my country, and I served Honorably. I would like a government job now almost 10 years later but I donít know what I should do.


Hey Y'all,

As for my Army career, you can say that my chain of command and I had a falling out. I had new CO, who thought that an infraction was worth a Field Grade Article 15 when I thought it should have stayed at a company level. The problem I had was I didn't lie about it like the 7 other soldiers did. I practiced that whole "Army Integrity" Bullshit and they were looking to stick it to me. It was fairly political. I thought I was getting screwed, so I demanded a Court Martial. The offense was such a joke and demanding a court martial for it SHOCKED my whole chain of command. We went at it for two months and I didn't budge. Nobody ever demands a Court Martial over petty stuff. I wanted the whole show...three judge panel, lawyers & court room. As it turns out, I embarrassed my chain of command over how far the whole circus went and was given the option of a Chapter 10 which is a request for discharge in lieu of a Court Martial. I obviously did the chapter 10 because I was facing a felony conviction on my record, jail time & a dishonorable discharge. There were so many reasons why I did what I did in regards to demanding a Court Martial. I was sooooooo pissed at the way they handled the whole affair I was willing to go to jail and screw my whole life up....they thought I was NUTS. It got to the point when they stripped me of my rank in a company formation, my platoon sergeant refused to strip me of it because he thought it was bullshit and agreed with me. I had guys in the formation from my platoon rip off their rank and throw it on the ground to show their disgust at what they did to me. I can go on & on about the whole thing, but I stood my ground and I refused to be somebody's little BITCH and I got so much respect and support from my peers it was really touching....hence I'm not really military material.

Oh my offence by the way was drinking three beers on an R&R trip in Northern Iraq. I had NEVER been in trouble up to that point & was looked upon as a good soldier by my chain of command. After the incident they tried to have me sign some back dated documents saying I was counseled before I went on that R&R trip about the no drinking rule....I didn't sign them of course and then the Army preaches about all this integrity....BULLSHIT!!!!! During my time in Iraq, I know of a Sergeant Major needing to be helped to bed, three newly appointed captains celebrating and making spectacles of themselves, not to mention the numbers of GIs drinking while on duty. I was on R&R and my weapon was locked away in an armor room. None of these people got into any major trouble and my chain of command want to hit me with a field grade, I couldn't just take it & drive on with all the B.S..

What steps should I take to get my discharge upgraded to a general discharge.

hey none of u are goin to give me some shit about saying i was gay and getting honorably discharged? hahhahahahahaha

Hey James,
Stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Oh and congrats on not only being a liar, but an asshole as well. They must be missing you.

Peace

hey have any of you all had any problems with a general discharge?

I was recently discharged from the Army with an oth for, like most of you, poppin on a piss test for weed. The thing about my situatin is once I was told I was getting discharged I came down with that all familiar "dont give a fuck attitude". I ended poppin on like ten more test because I refused to stop smoking as it was the only way for me to deal with deppression and keep from blowing my head off, or my co's or 1sgt's head off really. My unit was so messed up that it took them nearly 9 months to get my chapter paperwork right. Well you know what they tried to do to me during that time, make me bend over and take it. So I went awol for a year. Fuckem. Myself and about 10 others in my unit going through the same shit made up our own company motto, "NO VASOLINE". With an oth it has been very hard for me to find work. When I look back on things I wish I could have handled the situation differntly, but hey I can only play the hand I was dealt. So for any soldiers out there that have to take it with NO VASOLINE my advice to you is to try and stick it out the bennifits to me outweigh stigma of an oth. Definately dont try the drug way to get out. Like many on this site say just try to tell them youre gay. Also never settle take the shit as high up the chain of command as you can even if you have to talk to the president himself. Make copies of all your paperwork and try and gather as much proof against your chain as you can because if you dont try and watch your own back, noone else will. I admire this site and it great to be able to vent with people who are in the same sitiuaion. Best of luck to all who may be in need of some help.

My husband and I both have OTH discharges for going UA. We both had the opportunity to stay in but we decided against it because I was pregnant. We took the OTH instead of being court martialed and potentially facing a bad conduct discharge which could also give us a felony.

He has had no problem getting jobs, even when we were UA he worked. He has told the truth to his employers about being in the navy at one time and not having a "great" discharge but chooses to leave it at that.

Although our discharges are basically stuck this way, I suggest if you have any questions on if yours is to find someone nice at the veterans office, which is what we did. Also the form used to upgrade your discharge is Form DD 293.

in 2000 i got an oth from the marine corps reserve. in 2003 i enlisted in the army national gaurd for a try one year in the gaurd program. after i did my year i chose not to reenlist. so feb. 2004 i got an honorable discharge from the gaurd. on 2 oct. 2004 i got a letter saying i've been called to active duty for operation iraqi freedom. when i return home from active duty with the army will i be able to go back to the marine corps reserves

kurtis wayne on October 24, 2004 2:48 AM

>I'm going to get an OTH, for altering my ID to be 21. I just had DRB and all my chiefs want me kicked out.

One kid in my division was making fakes for tons of people. The fakes were so authentic looking that when asked to pick out which one was fake many people guessed the wrong one.

The only way he got caught was because a kid got too drunk and rolled the blame off on my buddy. Like me my buddy was in school to be a nuclear reactor operator so they let him stay in (since it is hard to find people intelligent enough to do that job who actually want to be in the military).

Recruiters get double points for signing up a nuc, that should be the first tip that the job is complete shit.

My buddy later got an honorable discharge and now goes to school. I am an internet marketer and he does all my web development stuff.

I think anyone that feels they got a other than honorable discharge / raw deal should be loud about it...it is the only way to change the policies.

Most people in the military honestly do not even care about how functional the military is. They are concerned about their reputation...the military is the same way.

Thats why I made this page about getting an other than honorable discharge. Same thing with when the navy spams people with a CNAVRES 1100/8 letter...they find my site first.

Those who are asking about rejoining the military after an other than honorable discharge are reenforcing the image that the military is right and good and that you are "other than honorable."

The military is a crazy lifestyle and it is hard to adjust to normal life after you get out of the military even if you do not get an other than honorable discharge. Many of my "honorable" friends struggled to find jobs too.

Look at the 2004 presidential election. Kerry's records showed that his discharge had to be reviewed...and Bush should have got a dishonorable discharge for not even showing up.

The point is that if you go after what you really want to do and you work hard at it an other than honorable discharge can strengthen you way more than it hurts you. Right now I am financially doing well and one of my prime motivators was my other than honorable discharge.

Good post Aaron. Very inspiring and you made alot of good points. Maybe its time I started thinking more like you. Thanks for the inspiration.

all you people who think you should be able to stay in or get a general for doing drugs are morons.

the navy's policy is to separate if you knowingly did drugs. "i didn't feel the effects even though i smoked it so i didn't think i'd pop" is about the most idiotic thing I've read on this thread.

if you choose to do drugs, take the fucking consequences like a big kid. YOU KNOW WHAT THE POLICY IS. is "zero tolerance" that vague? do you think YOU will get an exception?

if you didn't want an OTH you shouldn't have done the drugs while you were in the navy. and fuck this "the navy drove me to drink" or "it is the only way i can deal with it" bullshit. some of us are on deployments with our families at home, and most of those people waiting for us at home are away from their families too. it is YOUR decision to drink or do drugs, and you need to grow up and take the consequences.

learn before you speak XYZ...

Had a guy on my boat not got in trouble for using cocaine (and still stayed in the navy) then I could understand your zero tolerance concept. The whole zero tolerance concept is about breeding ignorance, and assuming you are in the military I can see that it is working just fine.

Study what the zero tolerance policy actually means and then post your apology.

No apology from me here.

if people slip through the cracks, they're lucky. but NO ONE should expect that THEY will be that exception. you're right - everyone should get kicked out for it and not everyone does, but to complain because YOU got kicked out is ridiculous.

i'm so sick and tired of people not accepting responsibility for their actions. we had a guy come through who was an alcohol rehab failure, and he thinks he shouldn't get kicked out because "it's the command's fault". how the hell is his command responsible for his choice to bring that drink to his lips? you're all adults, stop blaming other people for YOUR failure to follow the rules.

I could respect that "you are in control of your own actions" attitude a bit more if environmental factors did not frequently lead to suicide or other forms of self destruction.

I never did illegal drugs until long after I made it to the submarine. Years before I got in trouble for using drugs I drank until I stopped breathing. What did the command do about my drinking? They ignored it until the time I did drugs while blacked out drunk and then they destroyed their own work records of me.

Now that I am out of the navy I extremely rarely use drugs (once in a few years) and have only drank too much once in the past couple years as well. ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS ARE IMPORTANT, AND WHEN YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND IGNORES YOU WHEN YOU ASK FOR HELP AND THEN LATER DESTROYS THEIR OWN WORK RECORDS OF YOU AFTER YOU BREAK ONE OF THEIR RULES AND THEN RAILROADS YOU THEN YOU SHOULD BE PISSED AND YOU SHOULD CREATE A HIGH RANKING PAGE LIKE THIS TO COLLECT ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK.

I asked for help or for a break before I got in trouble. They told me to go fuck myself and I told them the same.

While playing along in rehab I saw on the wall that suicide was the second leading killer in the navy and few understood why. Even more sad was not only the fact that while at rehab I stopped a kid from eating a bottle full of sleeping pills, but also that the poster warning about suicide was years old.

One way or another the military is going to get feedback. If they make fucking people over the only way they can get feedback then people like me will proudly use technology to spread that message.

"Years before I got in trouble for using drugs I drank until I stopped breathing. What did the command do about my drinking?"

Are you or are you not an adult? The Navy isn't responsible for babysitting. Period.

>The Navy isn't responsible for babysitting.

It is this scumbag line of thinking that makes the military a horrible place to be. Keep in mind that I stated that I knew I had problems, I told the DAPA I was an alchoholic, and I asked my chain of command for help...I stated that I was burnt out and I could not stand that environment...and I got told to go fuck myself.

The same black and white (too stupid to see color) line of thinking that is powering your current broken logic also states that when I display problems AND ask for help that the military should not ignore it.

XYZ, I bet you were never a nuclear reactor operator on a special operations fast attack submarine who had not seen sunlight in over a month and recently had bad things happen to many family members (such as HIV, going jail for murder, and also death). Without needing any details you are judgemental. You are a nasty close minded individual.

You are right that the military does not take care of its memebers, and I am doing just fine now that I am out of their grasp. Indeed, I need no babysitter.

Even if you are an adult it is clear you do not think for yourself. You are sadly brainwashed and exactly what the military wants. BZ shipmate.

I'm hearing a lot of people who seem to have a lot of angst. I think mine may take the cake. I didn't do drugs, I didn't drive drunk, I didn't commit a felony offense. The thing I did to get kicked out was--refuse to come in off of leave because my Platoon Sgt. (Marine Corps, of course) wanted me to come clean the barracks. I really don't know how to fight this fight. I'm still in the process. Does anybody know whether an OTH definitely does affect employment outside?

By the way, I also agree with XYZ. If you did drugs, then even though I'm sorry, you knew you shouldn't have. As I'm writing this, I just wrecked my car, my fiance dumped me, and just found out about my Admin Sep package, even though I've finished four years and seven months of a five year contract--and doing drugs isn't going to help, and I know that. And I know all of you knew that when you went to boot camp, too.

Hi Deeb
sorry to hear you are going to get the bad deal. What you fail to realize in your "drugs are wrong" menatality is that some people actually did not do drugs. Some others only did drugs after they lost all faith in humanity and wanted to kill themselves.

What if somehow you find your way into the brig for not cleaning the barracks while on leave. Sucks, but it could happen. Then you would be one more "poor me" case who is whining. Truth is, the military is an employer with few legitimate feedback loops.

Many people use drugs because it is one of the few legitimate feedback loops left.

Aaron, I understand what you're saying, but they make it pretty clear--if you do it, you're gonna get fucked. Make no mistake about it. I hate the fact that the military, the Marine Corps in general is such a fucked up organization, and I'm not necessarily in disagreement with you. I even did them myself, before I joined.

At any rate, does anybody know how much, if at all, an OTH has on your post-military life? I'm debating on whether or not to go to the Board. An informed opinion, please.

And by the way, Aaron, I really like the site and what some of the people have to say on it.

The trick with an other than honorable discharge is to not mention it.

I had a ton of headhunters calling me up (did you know they usually make like 30 - 50% of your first year wage for fiding you). Once I told them that I had an other than honorable discharge they were like "oh darn, better luck next life."

In my opinion many of the headhunters are just blood suckers. One of the bastards even had me book reservations to a job conference that was canceled because people were worried about military people being called back to war

When I stopped mentioning the other than honorable discharge I was soon offered a job. Keep in mind that it takes most people like 3 - 6 months to get a job even if they were not other than honorably discharged and even if they were not in the military.

If you feel you were fucked over there is absolutely no reason to mention your other than honorable discharge to anyone. Most potential employers will not check your terms of discharge or mention about it.

Just talk like one of the good old boys talking to another good old boy if you are talking to headhunters. If you go for a regular job like Wal Mart or something they absolutely will not check (I got hired there about 1 day after I got my other job and I chose to stick with the one that paid 3 times as much.)

Also if you have a passion for anything and are interested in the web I would encourage you to go after it. The web is amazingly powerful and if you are willing to work hard enough and learn enough you can become your own boss.

Most specifically the navy nuclear power program and to a lesser extent the job I had after it tainted employment forever for me to where I will never again be employed by someone else...especially something like the military. In a year or two I will even write a book about it.

Aaron, I understand what you're saying, and I can see where you'd think that I might be brainwashed, but trust me...I have kids, and I demand that my children behave themselves and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. When they do wrong - admit it and deal with it. No excuses, no blaming others for their own actions.

Sympathy? Hell yes I have sympathy. I was horribly depressed my first 3 years in the Navy. I was stationed in a remote assignment, for the first time in my life away from my family, young and in a new country, no friends, no families, no nothing. I drank, probably too much, but I do not blame the Navy for that. **I** chose to drink. It's like people who die of lung cancer and sue the cigarette manufacturers.

I'm sorry I sound heartless. I'm a very compassionate person. Really! But I don't have the patience for people blaming their poor decisions on other people.

>TAKE RESPONSIBILITY

I would say that I did that. I even wrote about it on my own website and got the page to rank for related terms in major search engines. Anyone can go to Google and find out that I got an other than honorable discharge. That is more than most people do.

My chain of command did not take responsibility for destroying their work records of me. Bet your ass I will do what I can to ensure they do. ;-)

I will write a book about it.

>**I** chose to drink.

Just like all the people who chose to commit suidide in the military because they lost all hope and got told to go fuck themselves when they asked for it - I should be dead right now.

Just like all the people who chose to have their lives ruined because they develope PTSD while in the military.

The military is not like a regular job where you can just walk away from it (unless you are Bush - who oddy enough I am strongly marketing against this election).

It is up to me to make sure people see more than numbers. I need to make sure society as a whole recognizes just how bad the military is...people should know that suicide was the second leading killer in the navy.

People should understand that it is not uncommon for an extremely high % of nuclear power students to kill themselves. A kid who lived in the room next to me did so when he got to his boat. My old roommate went pyschotic while in the navy.

here is another kicker, while in the military they offered me drugs to "make me better." All I needed was out of their fucked up organization. All better now :-)

People should know that there is no military justice. That military justice is a sack of shit ... that my lawyer was frowned upon for actually defending people ... that the same evaluations that mean so much toward your career can be lost or destroyed at the convenience of your supervisors.

The people who fucked me will be publicly known and I will make it easier for other people to give feedback. If I have to make my own large scale feedback network that makes the military a bit more functional I will.

>It's like people who die of lung cancer and sue the cigarette manufacturers.

That is a poor reference. At the age of 17 you do not sign up to be a high tech cutting edge (lie: actually 60s microprocessor technology) smoker who ABSOLUTELY MUST CONTINUE SMOKING ANY CIGARETTE, OR CIGAR, OR PIPE, OR RANDOMLY SHAPED TOBACCO HOLDING CONTAINER PLACED IN FRONT OF HIM FOR THE NEXT SIX YEARS. -- see how stupid that sounds? That is because your analogy is that far off.

>But I don't have the patience for people blaming their poor decisions on other people.

Joining the military was a poor decision. My fault. However I will use any marketing knowledge I gain to reshape the fucked uped organizations.

Some people think that this site is about or that I want a handout of some sort. That is not the case.

I would simply be content with my old CO being fired, thrown in Levenworth, and him writing a letter of appoligy to me.

I will also eventually make a full ride scholorship that pays for college for submarine nuclear reactor operators who got kicked out of the navy for using drugs.

OK, I will concede on the point that the military is not faultless. I completely agree that there are fucked up people in the military. However, I don't agree that the military, as a whole, is the problem.

"My chain of command did not take responsibility for destroying their work records of me. Bet your ass I will do what I can to ensure they do. ;-)"

This I agree with. They do need to take responsibility.

But if you think that one eval made the difference between an OTH and a general or honorable...don't. OTHs are pretty much the standard for people who use drugs. Sure, there are the ones who get by with a general who did drugs, but overall, regardless of your evals you're most likely going to get an OTH.

My issue is that I read people here saying "I chose to do drugs but i'm not willing to accept the consequences." This is what I originally posted to. Your story, your situation, I really don't know anything about. I do dislike that you lump everything military as "bad". There are a lot of really great people out there, commands who really care about their people (believe it or not). I've been taken care of very well at 2 of my 3 duty stations. I'm not a 5.0 sailor, I'm a 3.8 sailor. I don't kiss ass, I do my job and try to do it well. I also don't ask for much, and if I do wrong, I expect to get in trouble for it. I've gotten in minor trouble before and I've dealt with those consequences.

I have sympathy for all the kids who join when they're too young and immature to realize what they're doing. I think a lot of people go into it with rose colored glasses, thinking it's going to be so great and wonderful and perfect, and it's a slap in the face when they get to their ship and are mess cranking in the galley that's 90į. But you don't go UA because you feel this is "unfair", you do your job and work your way up.


>OK, I will concede on the point that the military is not faultless.

I do not need you to concede this. The fact that it is made of people means it will have faults.

>I completely agree that there are fucked up people in the military. However, I don't agree that the military, as a whole, is the problem.

That system is the problem. Those who can't see it must be being fed their own brains. Look at Abu Ghraib.

High-profile convictions of low-level soldiers involved in Abu Ghraib obscure the bigger picture: senior officers are in line for promotions and the House is pushing to legitimize torture.

>"My chain of command did not take responsibility for destroying their work records of me. Bet your ass I will do what I can to ensure they do. ;-)"

>This I agree with. They do need to take responsibility.

How do you suggest they take responsiblity for maliciously detroying their own work records of me? Those are the same sacred work records that determine whether or not one can make rank.

(Incidentally enough they fucked up prior evals and I did not make rank until like 8 months after everyone else from the same cycle because they fucked that up too - twice - and I still have the records to prove it.)

>But if you think that one eval made the difference between an OTH and a general or honorable...don't. OTHs are pretty much the standard for people who use drugs. Sure, there are the ones who get by with a general who did drugs, but overall, regardless of your evals you're most likely going to get an OTH.

That may be true. Keep in mind that not long before that incident I was the youngest person in my division and I was frequently placed in charge of my leading petty officer. In fact the chief and first class took leave at the same time with me running the division. I was on watch the day after duty September 11th during a plant temperature shift when I was also running our division that day. I was the one who did the lighting quick precritical checkoff where I pushed the commanding officer and Navsea08 out of my way to get the ship ready to go to sea.

I worked at least twice as hard as almost anyone in my division (even stood someone elses watch on Thanksgiving with a herniated disk in my back). I was damn good at my job and I was rather selfless.

They refused to let me go when I asked for help because they were afraid to lose me. In your book that might be "being a shipmate." In my book that is selfishness and greed.

>My issue is that I read people here saying "I chose to do drugs but i'm not willing to accept the consequences." This is what I originally posted to. Your story, your situation, I really don't know anything about. I do dislike that you lump everything military as "bad".

Its not everything that is bad, just the broken feedback loops. The fact that I had no input into my supervisors evals. The fact that long before I got in trouble when they fucked up my evals (not once but twice) my chain of command did not help me. The fact that when I asked for help they told me to go fuck myself. The fact that they had to destroy their own records of my performance before I could be processed speaks loudly for the crediblity of that system...there fucking is none.

>There are a lot of really great people out there, commands who really care about their people (believe it or not).

And Master Chief Myers was one of the few reasons I lasted as long as I did. The point is not that there are good people. The point is the system has broken feedback loops that make it inherently broken.

>I've been taken care of very well at 2 of my 3 duty stations. I'm not a 5.0 sailor, I'm a 3.8 sailor. I don't kiss ass, I do my job and try to do it well. I also don't ask for much, and if I do wrong, I expect to get in trouble for it. I've gotten in minor trouble before and I've dealt with those consequences.

How often were you asked to do things that you did not know how to do? Where if you don't do it they get you on dereliction of duty. Where if you do it wrong and admit what you did you go to Levenworth for violating rector safety?

Meanwhile your logs are so important and the officers go through and rewrite (rip up the old and make new copies of) the logs for an entire med run...adding stuff wherever they see fit. Dressing their logs up for inspection.

What about painting underway in non emergency situations? Assigning an entire watch crew to be paint team before inspection? No fresh air. That is my mind that is getting fucked up by those paint fumes? Huffing paint. Isn't that forcing me to use drugs? So drugs are only ok if they are forced on you against your will? Only if they are harmful with no enjoyment?

>I have sympathy for all the kids who join when they're too young and immature to realize what they're doing. I think a lot of people go into it with rose colored glasses, thinking it's going to be so great and wonderful and perfect, and it's a slap in the face when they get to their ship and are mess cranking in the galley that's 90į.

You know what is funny. Being a nuc is so damn bad that going up to crank is a treat. You can ask anybody on my old boat how happy I was while I was cranking right before I left that boat.

>But you don't go UA because you feel this is "unfair", you do your job and work your way up.

It is not a system about working your way up. It is a system set up to hold people down. Why do you think they pay so little off the start? Keep you poor, make it hard to get out.

It is not a system about working your way up. The fact that they did not care to help me when they fucked up my evals - twice. They did not care to help when I asked for it. They did destroy my evals before processing me.

Its a shitty fucking organization with broken / non existant feedback loops. How would you feel to be one of the fall guys from Abu Ghraib who were ordered to mess with the prisoners and are now being made specticals? Where the supervisors who told them to do it are being advanced for a job well done.

Current US Military System = COMPLETE GARBAGE.

Those who do not understand that never will.

I can see that you have zero interest in anything I have to say, and since this is your blog, I respect that and leave.

Your opinions are that, and mine are as well. I happen to be in a military that has treated me well and that has done nothing but good for me and my family.

I'm sorry that your experience was bad, and I'm glad that you've moved on and are successful at what you do. The military is certainly not for everyone.

>I can see that you have zero interest in anything I have to say, and since this is your blog, I respect that and leave.

How would you feel to be one of the fall guys from Abu Ghraib who were ordered to mess with the prisoners and are now being made specticals? Where the supervisors who told them to do it are being advanced for a job well done.

That is the current military system. Not talking just about me. Talking about the lack of feedback loops. Bad business do not have good feedback loops. The military does not have good feedback loops.

I'm am writing this post for anyone out there who may need some inspiration. I posted here a few weeks back with my story of how and why I got kicked. After a long year of working shit jobs and trying to get my life back together, I have finaly recieved a job offer doing the same thing I was doing in the military, but for much better pay of course! Like Aaron has said many times before on this site:

>If you feel you were fucked over there is absolutely no reason to mention your other than honorable discharge to anyone. Most potential employers will not check your terms of discharge or mention about it.

Just talk like one of the good old boys talking to another good old boy if you are talking to headhunters. If you go for a regular job like Wal Mart or something they absolutely will not check (I got hired there about 1 day after I got my other job and I chose to stick with the one that paid 3 times as much.)

Also if you have a passion for anything and are interested in the web I would encourage you to go after it. The web is amazingly powerful and if you are willing to work hard enough and learn enough you can become your own boss.

I wrote back how I was inspired by words similar to these and no more than a week later I got a call and was hired over the phone without even being asked about my time in the military. I'm not here to preach to anyone but I also feel my faith in God had alot to do with this. I would like to once again thank Aaron for coming up with such an awsome site where people can voice their opinions and find good information about things that are happening to lots of soldiers everyday. In the last month, this website has helped me more than my discharging unit did in a years time. Thanks again good luck to all who may need it.


good job Ricky!!!

I was 19 when discharged w/an OTH, I got popped for THC in the piss test. Im not proud yet feel I wasnt given a chance. I was only in service for like 5 months. BULLSHIT!!, I tried the "upgrading my discharge" crap, I even requested a hearing to hell with letter writing. Guess what they wrote me back. Ha Ha Ha,,better luck next time...Does anybody have any suggestions on other ways to upgrade my discharge, some people say state reps?
who? what? when? & how?

Thanks everyone!

What a thread... Thanks, Aaron, for allowing a place to vent, and inquire, about this subject.

I'll describe my experience, 'cause I've not read anything like it so far.

I served in the Marine Coprs in the early-to-mid '80s. I loved boot camp, and couldn't wait to start school and join the FMF. My MOS was avionics, and during school, I hit a low. I hated sitting in a cubicle all day, studying theory and schematics. It's not that I didn't have the aptitude to comprehend or assimilate--I didn't have the patience.

I voluntarily dropped after 6 months and joined the infantry. What I didn't expect, but ended up getting, changed my life forever.

My brother was a grunt, and always ribbed me for being a "winger." He went to boot camp, then ITS, and then into the fleet with the same group of guys. He spent his entire four years with buddies, enduring the good and the bad with them.

In contrast, I joined a crew of guys that were no where near what my brother had. I was small in comparison, and was a hell of a lot smarter.

For the next 6 months, I was fucked with constantly. Personal shit stolen, harassed & threatened. Being on firewatch was the shits. I learned not to carry my wallet anymore, because the fuckers from the other platoons would steal it from me.

After a hump, my entire backpack, with all my shit in it, was stolen, and all my Gunny did was get someone else's and then give it to me.

That kind of crap went on constantly. I was so full of hate and anger, and knew I couldn't beat these dudes asses myself, but you damn sure didn't rat.

After a while, I had enough. I bought a box of 5.56 while in Oceanside one day, and brought it back to the barracks (open squad bay). I didn't know when I'd do it, but I was either gonna scare the fuck out of them, or shoot them.

A few days later, I got busted. My platoon commander, along with my platoon sergeant, called me out, and had the box. I fessed up, and told them what I had thought about doing, and all he (Lt.) did was suggest I see the base quack. He also said that if they wanted to persue it, they could have me put into corrective custody. Me! That was not an option.

I laid it all out in front of the doc, and all he did was tell me to try "working out." Try "getting some exercise." I was a fucking grunt! We got plenty of exercise!

I wasn't religious, but I figured I'd talk to the base clergy. All that dude did was agree I had anger issues.

Our battalion was set to go on a float (11th Marine Amphibious Unit, '85) for 6 months, and I knew I didn't want to be stuck with those fuckers for that long on an amphibious ship. So I left.

Eight months later, I went back to Pendleton, on my own. I couldn't take hiding anymore. I loved the fact that I was a Marine, but I absolutely hated who I was with.

All they asked me was if I wanted to go to Court Martial for the UA, and possibly face prison, or take an OTH, waive all my VA benefits, and get out. Single, no kids, I said O.K., and after 30 days of the "D" platoon, I was out.

By the way, those "D" guys were the best. A former Recon Marine, a couple of E-5s, an E-6 (on second enlistments), and other really good guys. Next to boot camp, that was the best month of my time in the Corps.

No one made me drop out of avionics. No one made me leave. I did it on my own, and I have to live with the consequences. But I know I'll never be able to proudly boast I was a Marine.

Later, I looked up stuff, wishing there would suddenly be a provision that would have allowed me to re-enlist, but there wasn't. Even though I now had a career, I tried to get in during Desert Storm, but the recruiter wouldn't even talk to me. I tried talking to an Army National Guard recruiter, but he said I should get over it and move on.

I've done well in the long run. I make a great salary, have great kids, and will retire from 20 years of the fire service in just over 3 years.

I didn't lie on my application; they just didn't really care. I'm a decent, hard working person, and have never been accused of a crime my entire life.

All I'm guilty of is being too undisciplined and impatient to complete a school that would have paid off with incredible returns and opportunities, and of not handling my predicament in the infantry better.

I never tried to change my discharge; I earned every bit of it, and take responsibility for it. I can't blame my lieutenant, the base clergy or psychiatrist for my reactions to my situation. I thought about it, and disregarding any impact it would have on my entire future, make a conscious, deliberate choice.

Since then, I've served my community and my family to the best of my ability. I am a great father, and a proud firefighter/paramedic; but nothing will ever erase the shame of my personal actions when I was a Marine.

Sometimes I ponder what I'd loose if I were to try and get in now, with the war and troop shortages going on. I'm not a chicken-shit; many things in my career have put me in danger. I would loose all the pay and benefits that I've earned for my family over the last 17 years, and I would make their lives extremely tough. So I know it's never going to happen.

In retrospect, was it worth it? No-fucking-way. Would I do it different if given another chance? Hell yes. But, I'd eventually come back home and find that cute little thing to have my kids with again!

>>Personal shit stolen, harassed & threatened.

That is not uncommon. On the submarine we had lots of that...cartons of cigarettes, wallets, clothes, etc.

I'm in the process of getting an OTH from the Navy. I popped for cocaine and received the usual max punishment. There are a few things I wanted to clear up after reading a lot of these messages....
1) If you know you did it and it came back positive don't waste your time with an Admin Sep Board, 9 out of 10 times you'll get an OTH if it was drugs.
2) To get your OTH upgraded to a General after six months isn't automatic. You need to put a request through D.C. to have your case reviewed and either be there in person or have a lawyer represent you.
3) If you are on your second enlistment you do retain your GI Bill if you were honorably discharged from the first enlistment.
These are only some of the facts I know, but calling your Congressman and other different approaches also sound like good choices worth a try. Hope this helps somebody.

I am in the process of being booted out of the navy with an oth. But you know what I am not mad about it all. The navy was definately for me and I am glad I am getting out. but i do have one question do i still get so va benefits like the home loan and can i apply for unemployment. will this stop me from being able to apply for federal aid for tuition to go to college. please reply.

You're eligible for almost all VA benefits, but the VA has to approve you on a case by case basis. Unemployment only comes when you've held a job (for however long) after you've been discharged from the Navy. In other words, you can't get kicked out for an OTH then go straight to the unemployment office and start collecting a check. The Navy was smart enough to cut that off from everyone. So contact you're nearest VA and see what's available.

well i was sent home in 7/1976 with boder line nuts.aka ptsd i was in the usmc recon i got a good discharge but the dam va is still trying to fuck me, all of this is in black and white thair papers not mine thay don,t give a dam about us hell thay served on time thay are under grad lawers, chins, camel jockeys. you name it, when you guys went in, did thay not tell you that you the property of the us.gov and if you got fuck up, thay wood take care of you! bull shit, but don,t give them a inch fight for that right thay said it the law says it it,s your right holdem to it,the dam layers

michael craig on November 9, 2004 3:02 AM

I am currently on the uss cowpens in yokosuka japan right now. I went to drb for underage drinking I will be sent to captains mast for sure. This is the third time i will have been sent to mast in 6 months for the same reason which the cmc said warrents a oth discharge because it's a pattern of misconduct. But here's where it get's tricky i asked the captain personal at mast after the second time i need help i think i have a problem he said you don't have a drinking problem you have a thinking problem. But it's standard after a alcohol related incident to get sent caac. Which they didn't so i wondering if i should fight that saying i wasn't properly helped or should i just fake being a homosexual to get a better discharge?

Cool, its taken me about 6 years to find a web site like this!
Well heres my story. When I failed at college I was in desperate need of a life and money. So I made a mistake of joining the Navy. When I went to take my physical in San Antonio, the fuckwad petty officers there brainwashed me into thinking that the SEAMAN APPRENTICE "PROGRAM" would be my best option (bullshit). I had wanted to be a radioman originally but i decided to go in as seaman since these officers told me that there were no radioman jobs left-which was also a load of crap. Once in bootcamp I never really took bootcamp seriously. At first I almost got kicked out for filling out my Phsycological test like I was a maniac (do you hit things when u are mad?--yes, do you smoke pot?--yes. So when i was called in by a counselor regarding my results I told him I was not serious. So I had to bullshit my way out of not going home from bootcamp. So anyway after that I decided to take it serioulsy maybe there was a chance I could be someone important.

Well everything was honky-dory until I arrived at my command (USS MOUNT WHITNEY). The bitch was on drydock and was known (and still is) known as the floating Hilton Inn aka Mount Whit-Me. What hell it turned out to be. The SEAMAN APPRENTICE job was really a load of crap...literally. The reason that they were trying so hard to add me on was because no one wanted to be a seaman appr. As a matter of fact I found out I was actually unrated which means u have no real job. All I would do was carry heavy shit up and down the 75 degree steps, chip paint, toss things overboard, sweep, mop--good ole DECK DEPARTMENT. IT WAS FULL OF FUCKHEADS who were in the brig and lost their stripes and positions because of fucking up. so they generally didnt care, but boy did were they the first to take credit whenever anything good was said of the deck department. I HAD HAD IT. all those monkeys were fucking lazy and full of it. LATER I BECAME DEPRESSSED AND DECIDED TO COME UP WITH A PLAN TO GET OUT. AGAINST MY GRANDMOTHER'S WISHES I ACTUALLY FOUND A WAY TO GET THE HELL OUT OF HELL....

HERES WHAT I DID....
I FAKED A SUICIDE ATTEMPT!!!!!
POPPED ONLY HALF OF VERY WEAK TYLENOL PILLS AND THREW THE REST OVERBOARD AND KEPT THE BOTTLE....GENERALLY I USED TO ALWAYS DO THIS WHEN I HAD HEADACHES. BUT TO THE UNFAMILIAR EYE IT WOULD LOOK AS A SUICIDE ATTEMPT. I WAITED UNTIL I FELT RELAXED AND STARTED TO STUMBLE TOWARD THE ON-DUTY WATCHMAN AND HANDED HIM THE BOTTLE AND EXPLAINED THAT "I THINK I JUST MADE THE MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!" IF ANYONE STOPPED TO WONDER TO SEE IF IT WAS ACTUALLY A PLOY NEVER CAME FOWARD BECAUSE IT WORKED! I DID GO THROUGH A BIT OF HELL THO. I WAS TAKEN TO A PHSYCIATRIC WARD FOR ABOUT TWO WEEKS OFF THE BASE IN A NAVAL HOSPITAL. IT REALLY WAS CREEPY BECAUSE EVERYONE THERE BUT ME WAS HEAVILY MEDICATED. EVERYONE THERE HAD TRIED TO DO THE SAME AND MAN THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM ALL TYPES OF MILITARY. THE WORST PART WAS WHEN I GOT THERE I WAS GIVEN A URINALISIS AND THEY TOLD ME THAT IT CAME OUT POSITIVE FOR METH. THEY TRIED TO SCARE ME ABOUT HOW I WAS GOING TO JAIL!!! THIS WAS CERTAINLY UNTRUE SINCE I HAD NEVER EVEN DONE METH NOR POT IN MY LIFE!!! I DID NOT GO DOWN THO, SINCE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LOCK ME UP I DEMANDED I ATLEAST GET A URINALISIS REDONE WITH ME BEING ABLE TO LOCK THE SEAL AND TAPE THE LABEL WITH MY NAME ON IT MYSELF. I MADE THOSE FUCKERS WAIT UNTIL I WAS READY TO PEE AGIAN. AT THE END THEY TOLD ME I WAS NEGATIVE. SO WHEN I GOT OUT OF THAT HELL HOLE I WAS TAKEN BACK TO MY SHIP FOR ABOUT A MONTH UNTIL I WAS PROCESSED OUT. I RECEIVED A GENERAL DISCHARGE WHICH WAS LATER UPGRADED TO HONORABLE 6 MONTHS LATER. AND THE BEST PART WAS THAT I QUALIFIED FOR THE HAZELWOOD ACT (TEXAS), WHICH MEANS THAT THE GOVERNMENT PAID FOR MY 50 PERCENT OF COLLEGE AT WHICH I ATTENDED AFTER MY 6 MONTHS OF HELL!!! SO I ATLEAST GOT SOMETHING OUT OF IT!! THE THING I NEVER GOT WAS THE RE4...WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN? I just want to let you all know that if you get taken advantage of you have to think of all possibilities there are while they are fucking you up. I feel that atleast I got something in return for wasting 6 months of my life. But they can never recompense me for all the nightmares I still have to this day....

SO IF ANY OF YOU ARE DESPEREATE TO GET OUT AND DONT WANT TO SAY YOUR GAY, OR GO UA, DO SOME GOOD OLE ACTING LIKE I DID AND YOU'LL BE ON YOUR WAY HOME....

PS
when i got out i found out that the recruiter who lied to me was worried that i was going to kill him. which i didnt care to do....

PPS
WHERE CAN I APPLY FOR THAT SCHOLARSHIP FOR THOSE WHO WERE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY THE NAVY!!!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY I THINK MY STORY WOULD BE LIKE A GOOD MADE-FOR-TV MOVIE...HEHEH

Prettymuch they have more rank so you are probably fucked. If you do the homosexual idea make sure you do it in a way where you are not accused of lying - at this point I probably would not recommend doing it.

After you get screwed by the navy make sure you put up a website that lets everyone know what you think about the navy.

Since nobody seems to be answering any questions here, I will. To get your OTH or general discharge upgraded, you must first obtain your COMPLETE service record, available by submitting the SF 180 available here:

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/obtain_copies/standard_form_180.pdf

Be sure to request an "Undeleted" copy of your separation papers and your complete service record. Next, submit a DD form 293 available here:

http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/dd0293.pdf

I recommend getting legal aid when filling it out as any discrepancies in your separation papers may come in handy. It will also be helpful to contact your senators and congressional representative for assistance. While it isn't necessary to attend the hearing in person, it is highly recommended that you be as complete as possible in filling out your paperwork. Be sure to include details of your "model citizen" behavior since your discharge.

Good Luck!!

I got an OTH, now I am a Corporate Recruiter. Do not sweat the OTH, do not even mention it. Just say you were not in the Military.

If you are asked directly and they want to see a DD214; spill the beans, they will find out.

You will have to get it waived for a government job, could be a problem.

It will come up if you are going to be CFO.

It's amazing what one reads here. My son is about to be O-T-H'ed from Naval boot camp. He went in with his eyes wide open. We talked extensively about what he was doing, and what he was expected to become - a warrior. The military is not a social or public welfare organization. It is the mechanism by which a nation defends itself from harm, and its members are WARRIORS. Boot camp, rightly so, molds individuals from varied backgrounds into the fighting men and women the nation needs to protect it.
I'm glad the military discharges those who can't hack it and do the job needs to be done.

>It's amazing what one reads here.

isn't democracy and freedom of speech wonderful!!!

>My son is about to be O-T-H'ed from Naval boot camp. He went in with his eyes wide open. We talked extensively about what he was doing, and what he was expected to become - a warrior.

that is perhaps a bit misguided IMHO. most military memebers are not warriors.

>The military is not a social or public welfare organization.

not entirely true. some of the people I met in the navy would have had no job at all if it were not for the navy.

>It is the mechanism by which a nation defends itself from harm, and its members are WARRIORS.

really, that view is misguideded. read some books or spend a few years on a submarine.

>Boot camp, rightly so, molds individuals from varied backgrounds into the fighting men and women the nation needs to protect it.
I'm glad the military discharges those who can't hack it and do the job needs to be done.

hopefully your son finds a job that is more productive than what he would have done in the military.

Does anyone in the Navy ever get sent to the brig just for testing positive for marijuana?

I am a reservist in an infantry-based branch of the service. it seems likely we will return to iraq in about 15-18 months.

I have been disgusted with my unit since I joined. they have done nothing to prepare us for the possibility of returning to Iraq, and most of our drill weekends consist of little more than sitting around, doing nothing.

the chain of command seems to have zero interest in doing anything other than sitting back and collecting their paychecks and promotions. most of the experienced, worthwhile NCOs are long gone -- basically because the unit is such a mess.

I didn't join for this. While I was, and still am, totally willing to obey orders and do my job, there is little doubt the chain of command feels little need to follow through on their responsibility to me. as a low-ranking enlisted person, I know there is no point in even saying anything about it.

I am contemplating smoking some pot just to get kicked out. I gave up pot for the military when I joined, but right now am approaching the end of my patience ... and I still have a number of years on my contract.

I already have a good civilian career and don't see how an OTH could hurt me. so I have 2 questions:

1-if I don't want to be a police officer or something like that, does an OTH ever pose any risk to my professional life?

2-would I be able to upgrade an OTH? I already served once in Iraq, and have a combat action ribbon... I also always had above-average evaluations and never got into trouble. given these considerations, would an upgrade be doable?

I'd be very grateful if someone were to answer this posting. thanks

DR

After boot camp, all was well... but just before I was to report into MCT, I awoke with no function in my hand. THREE MONTHS latter my hand regained function... I became very pissed off due to the atrophy that took place in my left arm, and the assholes who told me I was a liar! FUCK the "SMART" clinic!!! my two EMG tests said other wise!!
But yes I have an OTH and a good old marine corps. nerve diaseas! and carrpel tunnel to top it all off. i am only 24.
and with unknown reasons why I have this nerve shit.
my rebelion was in defense!

My 2nd command in Springfield, Mo jerked my chain for the entire month my father was dying in the hospital. They wouldn't give me leave, no cost TAD orders, nothing. Despite several Red Cross messages. I got an OTH for smoking pot. I want it upgraded. Does anyone have any numbers or web sites that will help me? Thanks all!!

thoughts on going ua. been in the navy for only 9 months. have $6k saved up. could live out of motels for a while then go back home. is this feasible? how long should i wait before going back home? ive heard 180 days then they stop really caring about you. would be happy just working a crap job at walmart or somewhere.

My step-son is in the Air Force and will probably receive a general discharge here shortly. Can anyone explain to me what exactly is a "general discharge" and will it affect his chances of getting a job when he comes home?

Anth -- I have no righteous basis for talking you out of your intentions, but I do have experience. My decision in 1985 to desert--let's call it what it is--was, without a doubt, the worst decision of my entire life. I have never stopped regretting it.

If given one chance of a do-over, that would be it. It didn't affect my getting a good career, or leading a happy life; on the contrary, if I could just put it behind me, one could say I have the perfect life. But I can't, and probably never will.

Everything we do as people directly affects many, and vise-versa. This will affect many people in your life--those living now, and those in the future which you can't forsee. It will affect them for generations to come. It will cause humiliation and embarassment to your children, and their children.

I have, as do many, people in my lineage that served. If I had an ancestor that had deserted, that person would be looked at in a spotlight completely different than those who served, and particularly those who laid down their lives to guarantee our nation's freedom.

That person's offspring will never shake the stigma of their ancestor's actions. No matter what the reason, justified or not, the person will always be looked at as a coward; a quiter. When your children are confronted by other children who lost a relative who served, there is no escape for them.

And if you think others won't find out, think again. They always do.

I could lie and say I got booted for smoking weed, or doing cocaine, but that's not what I did, and I have enough self-respect (what little is left) to speak the truth.

I could have taken the drug route to get out. It would have been easy for me. I loved getting high before I went in. But, in this life, we're held accountable for our actions, and should be. I left because, I thought, the alternative was shooting someone.

In retrospect, it's easy for me to say I wouldn't desert again. It's easy to forget how much I hated the people I was with. I was close to assaulting someone with a loaded weapon. Had I, I would have undoubtedly spent a good time in prison, and be so much worse off than today.

But I can't say I'm glad I deserted, either. There had to be a better way to solve my problems, and I'll just have to live with the realization that I didn't find that way.

Many on this site have very good reasons for deserting, or taking drugs intentionally to get booted out, and will defend their actions strongly, but I have to look at myself in the mirror daily, and I see a quitter. I see someone living the life of freedom and opportunity, who wasn't willing to help defend that life with my own.

It wasn't worth it.

>Everything we do as people directly affects many, and vise-versa. This will affect many people in your life--those living now, and those in the future which you can't forsee. It will affect them for generations to come.

Its true that anything you do has ongoing effects.

>It will cause humiliation and embarassment to your children, and their children.

Today I am doing well. The single biggest reason I am doing well is because I took the "other than honorable" route. The bogus judgemental behaviour others gave me taught me a ton about humanity and life and about taking accountability for my actions and environment. It is what led me to set up the page and make it so that Google would rank it well for phrases such as "other than honorable" and "other than honorable discharge."

>That person's offspring will never shake the stigma of their ancestor's actions. No matter what the reason, justified or not, the person will always be looked at as a coward; a quiter. When your children are confronted by other children who lost a relative who served, there is no escape for them.

Thats just plain crap. I have known many people who have done well despite a bad military career. You chose how you live and what you pass on.

>And if you think others won't find out, think again. They always do.

Thats the trick. Tell who you like. Decide who not to. I intentionally made it so that the largest information gathering systems in the world rank this page for "other than honorable discharge." Its nothing to be ashamed of. After the confusion of leaving the military abruptly there are probably enough other things to worry about other than the status of your discharge.

I have many friends who got honorable discharges that still strugled after they got out of the military. I almost instantly flourished because I decided to put the past behind me and focus on what I am interested on.

>I could lie and say I got booted for smoking weed, or doing cocaine, but that's not what I did, and I have enough self-respect (what little is left) to speak the truth.

It seems to me that you feel like less of a man for not getting an honorable discharge. Is the person who serves 3 years as a cook in the reserves a better person than me? If so then why?

>I could have taken the drug route to get out. It would have been easy for me. I loved getting high before I went in. But, in this life, we're held accountable for our actions, and should be. I left because, I thought, the alternative was shooting someone.

Sounds to me like you made a wise choice. Murder is typically a bad call.

>In retrospect, it's easy for me to say I wouldn't desert again. It's easy to forget how much I hated the people I was with. I was close to assaulting someone with a loaded weapon. Had I, I would have undoubtedly spent a good time in prison, and be so much worse off than today.

Again, murder is usually a bad thing...

>But I can't say I'm glad I deserted, either. There had to be a better way to solve my problems, and I'll just have to live with the realization that I didn't find that way.

And that is what is really sad. The military gives people ultimatums. Your dishonorable, your in the brig, you are honorable... This or that. Right and wrong. Black and white. The real world does not work that way.

If you let anything negative drive your actions for the rest of your life in a negative way then you have already given up a good part of your heart, soul, and mind.

>Many on this site have very good reasons for deserting, or taking drugs intentionally to get booted out, and will defend their actions strongly, but I have to look at myself in the mirror daily, and I see a quitter. I see someone living the life of freedom and opportunity, who wasn't willing to help defend that life with my own.
It wasn't worth it.

Everything you do has an associated opportunity cost. Blindly following leaders causes them to be fucked up. Following all the rules all the time may mean that there is less freedom and more people needlessly die.

I challenged the system and am doing just fine. Today more than ever I am proud of my actions and what freedoms I have left.

general discharge = no big deal.

the biggest difference between it and an honorable are the GI bill benefits, and if you got an honorable discharge via reenlisting prior to your end discharge of general I believe many of those benefits still exist.

Is there any loophole for getting out of the Navy without smoking weed or doing something stupid? Would it help at all to talk to a lawyer and see what they have to say? I'm desperate!

I was discharged from the U.S. Army after 2 years of service, for failing the urinal test. I did 90 days of extra duty and was also deployed while on extra duty. After being threatened and spit on for five months, it was my hard work and respect I earned from my peers and leaders that got me a General (under honorable conditions). Now, I would love to rejoin the military which I enjoyed more than anything in the world, but it seems like no one will give me a chance. So what can I do , anyone with information please contact me by e-mail Thanks.

Douglas Spicer on December 2, 2004 5:54 AM

I received an OTH (RE4) from the Navy back in 98 for doing drugs (ecstacy). I admit that I seriously messed up and take all the responsibility for my actions. I'm am now in my last year of nursing school, I have a 3.4 GPA and I'm looking to get back in. I've been hearing things about getting waivers for RE4 codes from the Army National Guard. What is the validity of this? Will they still give you a waiver if you're trying to become a commissioned officer. I'm trying to get into the Army Nurse Corps. I heard on the news that the National Guard has fallen short of their 2004 quotas by 30%. Would this increase my chances of getting a waiver approved? Thanks for your help.

william webster on December 2, 2004 7:20 PM

Question...
So Aaron when you applied for these jobs did you mention that you had a military career?
On your application what did you put under Military background?
I know someone that had Class C Misdemeanors prior to the Navy which they recieved as a 16 year old, and they were allowed to enlist into the Navy, they now have an OTH due to personal family reasons.
Can you get a job working for the Military or any other decent job in the Market with both misdemeanors and an OTH?
Can this person repair their life???

>So Aaron when you applied for these jobs did you mention that you had a military career?
On your application what did you put under Military background?

Initially I mentioned that I was in the navy and that I got an other than honorable discharge. Later on I mentioned the military but did not mention the other than honorable discharge unless they asked about it. Most people do not know much about the military or your terms of discharge.

>Can you get a job working for the Military or any other decent job in the Market with both misdemeanors and an OTH?

I would say I make more than the average worker. I have turned down employers that wanted to pay me to work 4 hours a dan and would pay more than the average job. I am not looking for military employment.

>Can this person repair their life???

Sure they can. Its up to them though. They can live in the past and keep their other than honorable discharge with them and allow it to continue to give them an excuse to do bad. OR the other options are:
-they could ignore their terms of discharge and go on with life.
-they can use any bitterness they have as a possitive motivator in their life.

Thank you for the reply Aaron....

Did you run across employers that did look into your background even though you did not provide your discharge information?

Has anyone on this site had an okay time finding a job after having both a Misdemeanor, Class C and an OTH?

Did you put your specific information as for when you enlisted and the separation date on your applications?

Were you specific when applying or vague?

Have you ever been hired and then later terminated due to false information, as for after they looked into your background?

>Did you run across employers that did look into your background even though you did not provide your discharge information?

nope. I was brought on as management at a large international company...even Wal Mart was going to hire me too. lots of big companies do not check.

>Has anyone on this site had an okay time finding a job after having both a Misdemeanor, Class C and an OTH?

if the misdemeanor happened as a youth I do not htink it matters much. an other than honorable discharge does not matter much so long as you do not mention it.

>Did you put your specific information as for when you enlisted and the separation date on your applications?

I think I may have. there are non OTH reasons (family problems, etc.) to leave early. so long as you do not act like there is something to hide they probably will not expect it.

>Were you specific when applying or vague?

its all about empathy. if they don't care that much about the specifics than neither should you. with wal mart I was vauge with a bunch of stuff. I was placed at the job I took by a former military member. I was exceptionally specific about some of the good times and experiences we both had. he thought I was one of the good old boys. its all about empathy.

>Have you ever been hired and then later terminated due to false information, as for after they looked into your background?

no, I quit my job like 6-8 months after I got it. I became a self employed internet marketer. when you searched for "other than honorable discharge" you found this page because I wanted this page to rank for that phrase.

well, I just took a pee-test the other day and I am about 90% sure that I have failed it. I smoked with a few of my buddies about a week ago at a band practice of ours, just to bring back the moments from the good ol' days while jamming. Well, then I go to freakin' school and they called my name for a damn pee test.

Alright, here is my question. Am I gonna get a Dis-honorable discharge, or a other-than-honorable discharge? and what will determine what I get.

I have been in the navy since {edited} and Am now at "A" school learning to be an {edited}

My friends have told me that since I am at a training facility, that I will only get an O-T-H, and not a dishonorable, but really, I think that they have no idea. Can you please help me and let me know what you think? Is there a possability that I will get and Dishonorable, or do I have a chance at getting an O-T-H ??

email me: edited@yahoo.com

a dishonorable discharge is a bit hard to get. you will probably get an other than honorable discharge if they catch you. I edited out your details because there is no reason to rat yourself out and some members of the military will be reading this page.

I am not certain why some people want to give all their details before they get in trouble or while they are still in the military. look at the guy way above who states that he is doing undercover drug work and gives his official navy email and whatnot. that is probably not a wise thing to do.

thanks alot for responding, it shows that people actually do care.

The reason for giving the info, is because I don't really care if they know or not. I wanna get out of this Navy bull shit so bad, that I hope that I pop positive on my drug test. I wanna go back to living the life that I used to live, and persue my musical career.

But again, thank you for responding to my post, and also thank you for editing out my foolish mistakes of giving away info, before I have even been prosicuted.

Oh yea, about the dishonorable discharge thing, can you tell me, what Exactly would one have to do to get that. Thank you~

I think the dishonorable discharge would be more like beating the crap out of your CO and selling drugs to his or her children.

I think dishonorable is usually a bunch more than just doing drugs.

if you do not get in trouble tell the chaplain you are gay or something. based on your comments on my blog it is fairly apparent that you do not give a shit about the military. best to get out without wasting your time on unneeded punishment, maltreatment, and whatnot

some members of the military are big jugemental scumbags toward people who use drugs. you are better off not seeing the ugly side of the mental midgets...unless you want to write a song about how stupid and inhumain they are. if you are looking for that sort of material stick around. you will have lots of lyrical and musical inspiration.

best of luck
happy holidays
aaron

You may all want to check this out for excellent information regarding the many questions I've seen here.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/aadischarge1.htm

I wish you all well, good luck and peace.

Rhonda J.

well, it's been almost a week now since my drug test, and still no word on wether I failed or not. If it turns out that I passed the test somehow, I think that I am just gonna go with the "gay" plan, and go talk to my chaplin about getting out so I can persue my life as a gay man (I'm not gay though, just gonna act it.) If that works out, I'll inform others here at this web site about the detail on what they did and how it all worked out. Wish me GL.

I?ve been reading most of the postings here, one thing is that a OTH such as a BCD etc. has nothing to due with a felony, they like to say crap like that to scare you. In addition, no one can gain access to your military records. No one can do a background check and come up with what type of discharge you have. Only the FBI (not even them most of the time) and DOD are about the only ones who know what type of discharge you might have.

What's the worst punishment that someone can realistically get if they smoke weed in the Navy and then pop positive on the piss test?

I was wondering if anybody knows if an oth will screw up your ability to get a secret clearance? Thanks. Oh yeah the OTH was due to marijuana usage in the USMC.

ok here my deal.

My best friend does some chrystal meth in my car one night while we are chillin @ my pad. he leaves a good sized bump on my center console.
I get up in the mourning to go to work and set my arm down in this shit and dont realize it at all, well just my luck i get wiz quized. so i fight my pop all the way up to a polygraph. the day before i take the poly my boy fesses up to accidentally leaving some meth in my ride. so i beat his ass. but that was it, i let it go. funny thing is my polly reads after being asked if i "Intentionaly" used. the NCIS guy tells me "there is a "HINT" of deception here, and that means you are "PROBABLY" lying. so i figure the hint of deception is cuz i know now how it got in my system so my readings go up. al in all i was discharged with an OTH all because i wasnt going to rat my boy of 9 yrs out so he can get charged with attempted murder automatic 10 yrs.......I aint no fuckin rat....and i never thought i would say it but fuck the navy

oh and John

yah bro you loose your clearence,
and if you need that clearence for your advancement or its a rec. you loose your rate to.
same thing with an NEC, you loose schools,bonuses some times. sorry bro

my kid is in restriction, he popped positive for cocaine. i have no idea what he will do when he is processed out from what they said he will never have a job blah blah blah. can you tell me something good, like it is crap and he can find work. Thanks so much.

hi mishelle
they try to scare you into believing an OTH is the end of the world, but I found one for a while until I decided to start my own company.

The lines from the military - its all bullshit.

i was wondering if you can still reenlist in the national guard after getting an oth from the navy,cause i need the college benefits, someone please help me out with this question.

hi leah
there are waivers for just about anything and oth discharges are not that uncommon, but its going to be on you to try to push it if it is something you really want.

I went into the delayed entry for a yr while in high school. I went into the marines 9 days after I graduated.
To make a long story short. I was young dumb and stupid. Made it to Infantry training. Made a dumb mistake and went ua for about 14 days. I came back and got a General OTH. I now wish I would have done something different.
1. My questions are this. SHOULD I YES OR NO put this on a application. If I apply for a civil service job or a law enforcement job should I list this and that I got an oth? I am sure they do not care why I did it. I will automatically be disqualified I am sure.
2. How hard is it to get into say the guard with a re4 code? If I want it can I get in?
3. Can anyone please help me to follow the right path to trying to get this updated?
Thank you

aaron,
i have some questions about the nuclear engineering field in the navy. would you be willing to answer them? if so, please e-mail me asap at stinkafuton@hotmail.com i'd really appreciate it. thanks!
john

i got a friend that just got busted for smoking weed in the Navy and now he's on restriction before he's processed out. can anyone tell me if he's even allowed to make phone calls while on restriction? i need to talk to him! thanks.

Hi Bam
>SHOULD I YES OR NO put this on a application. If I apply for a civil service job or a law enforcement job should I list this and that I got an oth? I am sure they do not care why I did it. I will automatically be disqualified I am sure.

I would generally leave it off, but I probably would not want to work in those fields. like how can you knowingly and willingly break laws and want to enforce them on others?

>2. How hard is it to get into say the guard with a re4 code? If I want it can I get in?
3. Can anyone please help me to follow the right path to trying to get this updated?

not sure about getting it updated. IMHO its not worth wasting your time with the military. work hard to do something you like and just act as if the military never happened (other than taking their shitty actions as a motivation to do better)

Hi John
not sure if I could answer your questions...it depends on their nature.

Hi Stan
yes you can make calls from restriction (or at least I made many)

I was discharged 2 years ago with an OTH from the Marines. I was told the same shit most people are, that the OTH will be upgraded. Well my first year was hell but my second year is not so bad. I am now going to college full-time and working at the same college part-time. The Government is paying for my tuition because I make less than $30,000 a year, not because I am a veteran.

My current boss told me that he does not care what I got from the military. I could have a dishonorable and he still would have hired me. The military told me that I would never amount to anything and never be able to go to college either. I called the CO of my last unit and gave him the good news and basically told him to go fuck himself.

I wish you all the best of luck in your endeavors.

reduced to private on December 19, 2004 2:19 AM

ive been in the navy for 9 months and was caught on the quarterdeck with some weed and underage drinking. it was my first offense and i got 45 45 and an oth. i never popped b/c i was just holding it and forgot i had it. some asshole saw me in the club with it and called my ship with a description. can you tell me the process of how i can change the oth to a general.

AARON wall
I was not really looking into law enforcement I was looking more towards the line of firefighting. That is what I ment when I said civil service. Thank you for the reply

> I was not really looking into law enforcement

that is not what you said earlier. this is directly quoted from an earlier post of yours

>or a law enforcement job

Not to burst anyone's bubbles, but listen to my story. As someone wrote earlier, it "is" all about if your chain of command "likes" you or not. I was being hazed, and wasn't liked (to much individuality, too intelligent and opinionated). A friend of mine was given a general under honorable discharge after being NJP about four times. His offenses were: DUI, testing positive for Cocaine, Assault with a deadly weapon (threw a bottle at another Marine, it hit a railing; broke and cut that Marine's face) and some other charge. Anyway, he worked in the same office as me, actually the desk right next to me. They reccommended a general under honorable and he got one. They were so surprised (pissed off) that the CO actually backed up their recommendation, here's what happened when I went up. Everyone knew I was being hazed and treated unfairly. It was actually a joke around the office. I was given NJP 15/15 plus fines for my first offense, which was wearing an earring off base. Then after being late a few times I was give Battallion 45/45 and max forfeitures, with reduction to e-2 right before picking up E-4. After that NJP I was late once and given another 45/45 maxed, w/reduction to E-1. While on NJP I was late 2x both under 2-3 minutes, once I got a ride with a friend and forgot ny cover. They waited until I finished my 45/45 and then gave me another 45/45 with max forfeitures and reduction to E-0, for being late and out of uniform. A consecuitve 90 days. This is when they tried to put me up for separation. The Admin Sep package got kicked back though because they forgot to give me somw paragraph warning. It basically says mess up again and you will be separated. They need that document in order to separate you. It was so obvious I was being hazed my First S. actually scheduled a time for me to be late so that I could get Ad seped. You see even though I had already served 4 years of a five year contract. I was being treated so bad I was ready to give up everything just to get out. That's how bad it was. Anyway they would of just found a way to get me out, they were "out to get me". Well in conclusion my offenses were: Wearing an eariing, being late, and being late on restriction. 3 NJP's wearing and earring and for being late basically. I was recommended for general under honorable and after hearing of my friends discharge of general under honorable I was sure I would get it. When I was handed the papers I ended up receiving an OTH. I found out that my SNCO was actually forced to change his recommendation that he showed me and was "signed" to an OTH because they wanted to make an example out of me. This is why I will never, EVER, support anyone I care about to join the military. It was the hardest time of my life. The sad part is I am still paying for it. I had a car, a motorcycle, my wife's (now divorced, because of what happened) engagement ring all Repossed. Lots of bills unpaid and charge offs. My credit is ruined my score is like a 540 or something. I never optioned for the GI bill, but they took it out for the first year anyway. I went with it because I figured I would use it. Well I lost that too, and my guranteed home loan, with a credit score like I have now because of the Marine Corps I'm screwed for a very long time. If there's a way to get upgraded to a general under honorable please someone E-mail me at: rlamountain@carolina.rr.com
If anyone deserves it, it's me. After what I've been through and went I will still be going through because of them; they've managed to ruin 11 years of my life. Semper Fi!!!!! So much for taking care of your own.

i got out of the navy with an other than honarable discharge...when can i change my discharge...how long until i can join a different service?

Anyone knows how long they will keep you in the mental hospital? I am thinking of going with the "crazy" route to get out. I know, I am really a bit cookie in the head but want to expand a little bit. Can anyone give me any tips and/or recommendations on what to do and not to do while commited.

being labeled crazy is probably really a bad deal IMHO. why not just act gay?

I am in the process of trying to reenlist in the Army. I have a BCD but a recruiter said he could get me waivers except I have two months lost time when I was in confinement at Ft. Knox waiting for my court martial and that put me over his waiver limit. I guess with everything goin on its alot easier to get back in with a not so clean record. Can anyone give me information on how I should go about writing my senator. I think i'll try that.

Jeremy D Johnson on January 2, 2005 5:59 PM

Aaron (or anyone),
If I tell my leading petty officer I've been doing drugs and for some reason I show up negative on the piss test, do they still kick me out of the Navy?
-John

>If I tell my leading petty officer I've been doing drugs and for some reason I show up negative on the piss test, do they still kick me out of the Navy?

they prettymuch can screw you if they want to...the main thing is that they are supposed to have some shit like reasonable suspicion.

if they don't like you they can probably get you for no reason at all. there is nothing just about the military justice system.

Hey guys I really hate to be the bum one here but i have a question. I want to get out on Inability to Adapt to Navy life. Cus this isnt really what i need im so upset all the time and i cant do anything. Tell me is there anything you guys know about this and if so How long will it take for me to say c ya. Cus i hate to say it But this isnt the life I expected and its not for me. Lemme know when you can by postin

Hey I hope theres a way some of you experianced people can help me out. I know i might sound like a baby. But the navy life isnt for me Im so depressed all the time, i feel chlostrophobic, and im sick of moping around and feeling bad. Im trying to get out on a Failure to adapt to military life. Do you guys know anything about this and if so help me out. Oh and How long would you say it would take for it to go through?

My son is was in the brigg for UA of 17 days he was told he was going to another unit then the last day they decided they were keeping him in his previous unit. he was there 5 days then came home for leave for 13 days first day back he is told they were going to admin seperate him for failure to adapt he is into his 3rd yr and like the rest he will get OTH can anyone help. He really don't want out he screwed up with the UA paid his price for it.

If you did drugs you deserve nothing less than an OTH. Deal with it. ZERO TOLERANCE. You shouldn't have done drugs.

>If you did drugs

what effects do poor food quality, low oxygen levels, no sun light, and huffing paint fumes have on the mind?

those are not too uncommonly the living conditions of a submarine.

sorry you are so close minded, but it is people like you that made me want to get out of the navy.

ps: I would estimate that about 25-30% of the crew probably did drugs. people are much more open when they can tell you are honest.

No, The conditions of the Navy didn't make people do drugs, they did them because they are looooooooooosers.

Service members signed a contract and swore to an oath. Part of that oath was to obey orders. "Don't do drugs is an order."

Closed minded...Well the only ones that I see are closed minded are the ones that did drugs. Closed minded to the facts and laws that state, "You will not use a Controlled Substance."
Blaming and making excuses for drug use will forever hold people back in their pursuit to put this behind them and continue on to make a better life for themselves.
P.S.
You didn't get out of the Navy because you wanted too. You were kicked out with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. No one wants to get kicked out with an OTH. MILSPERSMAN 1910 clearly states that an OTH, can only be awarded when the performance of service does not warrant an Honorable or General Under Honorable discharge.

P.S.S.
Most of the personnel who use drugs, more than likely will continue to use and never become a productive member of the community

>No, The conditions of the Navy didn't make people do drugs, they did them because they are looooooooooosers.

Nice. For anyone looking on, debating joining the military, these are the types of close minded judgemental assholes that comprise the majority of the corpus.

Interesting how someone can be 30 years old and still see the world entirely black and white. It gets to where you wonder if these guys would eat their own brains if the military / government told them that it was good.

>Service members signed a contract and swore to an oath. Part of that oath was to obey orders. "Don't do drugs is an order."

And some of those people who signed those papers were not even old enough to vote when they signed them. When I joined the navy I did not think I was taking an early trip to hell, but we all make mistakes.

My life has been lived so much purely now that I am not in hell and do not want to go there in the future.

Also, does the paperwork actually say "don't do drugs?" What do you think about the meth that pilots were ordered to use a few years back?

>Closed minded...Well the only ones that I see are closed minded are the ones that did drugs. Closed minded to the facts and laws that state, "You will not use a Controlled Substance."

So huffing paint is fine then because it screws you up worse than alot of other drugs AND because the military forces you to do it AND because it has no desireable side effects - other than killing off brain cells - which makes you dummer and more likely to re enlist?

Feel free to explain yourself on that one.

Also military members get to be lab rats for lots of vacines. Do you count those "not released to the general public" & "not widely tested" substances as controlled substances.

After you sign the contract you get propiganda, shitttttyyyyyyy food, bad drugs, etc... you get all these injected into your body whether you like it or not.

>Blaming and making excuses for drug use will forever hold people back in their pursuit to put this behind them and continue on to make a better life for themselves.

Afraid not. Some people live far richer lives due to their drug usage. Some artists and writers and musicians would never be who they are without some of those substances.

For the most part drugs are not for me though...just was a phase I went through when I wanted to die and did not want to make it look intentional.

>P.S.
You didn't get out of the Navy because you wanted too. You were kicked out with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. No one wants to get kicked out with an OTH. MILSPERSMAN 1910 clearly states that an OTH, can only be awarded when the performance of service does not warrant an Honorable or General Under Honorable discharge.

The funny thing is that you probably just made this page rank for another document term when you wrote MILSPERSMAN 1910.

Interesting concept. I now go wherever I want, whenever I want, and make over 3 times what I made while in the navy. I really am not seeing the downside to my early end of tour of service.

>P.S.S.
Most of the personnel who use drugs, more than likely will continue to use and never become a productive member of the community

More lies judgemental religious right wing fundamentalist nut jobs would like you to believe.

Again, oxygen, or a lack of it, is a drug...so is propiganda. You Mike certainly appear to be taken more by the later.

May you live a life rich in propiganda and misguided purpose and becme a pillar of the community!

No, The conditions of the Navy didn't make people do drugs, they did them because they are looooooooooosers.
Nice. For anyone looking on, debating joining the military, these are the types of close minded (one word) judgemental (Judgmental) assholes that comprise the majority of the corpus.
Interesting how someone can be 30 years old and still see the world entirely black and white. It gets to where you wonder if these guys would eat their own brains if the military / government told them that it was good.

**Ok, let just look at this one, you must agree, your argument shows no contents towards the text. If you are thinking about joining the Military and you do drugs, DONíT JOIN. I donít want you and we donít need you. So, keep your drug loving A%# (in case children are reading this) at home. Black and white huh, we at least I can read and spell. English is your first language right? I corrected your spelling. For people reading this, do you really want to take the advice of someone who canít spell, or at least doesnít know what spell check or a dictionary is used for.

>Service members signed a contract and swore to an oath. Part of that oath was to obey orders. "Don't do drugs is an order."
And some of those people who signed those papers were not even old enough to vote when they signed them. When I joined the navy I did not think I was taking an early trip to hell, but we all make mistakes.
My life has been lived so much purely now that I am not in hell and do not want to go there in the future.
Also, does the paperwork actually say "don't do drugs?" What do you think about the meth (Myth) that pilots were ordered to use a few years back?

**Again, itís not hard. You donít do drugs. You donít need to be 18 to know that itís wrong and more important itís illegal!! (Remember the commercial ĒThis is drugs, this is your brain on drugs, Any Questions.Ē Mom and Dad should have taught you this one. Using Drugs is not a mistake, itís a choice, no one put a gun up to anyoneís head and sayís ďSmoke this jointĒ, they do it because they think they wonít get caught.

>Closed minded...Well the only ones that I see are closed minded are the ones that did drugs. Closed minded to the facts and laws that state, "You will not use a Controlled Substance."
So huffing paint is fine then because it screws you up worse than a lot (a lot, two words) of other drugs AND because the military forces you to do it AND because it has no desireable (desirable) side effects - other than killing off brain cells - which makes you dummer (not a word) and more likely to re enlist?

**Itís called a respirator, the respirator safety program. Of course you might not remember that one because we only have this in the Navy, not in Hell. You are required to wear them. NAVOSH requires it.

Feel free to explain yourself on that one.
Also military members get to be lab rats for lots of vacines. (vaccines) Do you count those "not released to the general public" & "not widely tested" substances as controlled substances.

**Look everyone itís Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. Get real please, drug users are dumb already, lets not influence them anymore than necessary.

After you sign the contract you get propiganda, (propaganda) shitttttyyyyyyy food, bad drugs, etc... (Y)you get all these injected into your body whether you like it or not.

**Please refer to my last statement.

>Blaming and making excuses for drug use will forever hold people back in their pursuit to put this behind them and continue on to make a better life for themselves.
Afraid not. Some people live far richer lives due to their drug usage. Some artists and writers and musicians would never be who they are without some of those substances.

**So, why do you have this website? Far richer lives, look at all the people that are that are trying to change their discharges.

For the most part drugs are not for me though...just was a phase I went through when I wanted to die and did not want to make it look intentional.

**Ever thought about counseling??

>P.S.
You didn't get out of the Navy because you wanted too. You were kicked out with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. No one wants to get kicked out with an OTH. MILSPERSMAN 1910 clearly states that an OTH, can only be awarded when the performance of service does not warrant an Honorable or General Under Honorable discharge.
The funny thing is that you probably just made this page rank for another document term when you wrote MILSPERSMAN 1910.

**Ok, you lost me on this one. When you got kicked out of the Navy, you sign a document this this information all over it and you should know this one like the back of you hand. Try this, go to Google.com, and click, copy, and paste. Here, I made it easy for you. http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/MILPERS/MILPERSMAN%20%201910%20-%20ENLISTED%20ADMINISTRATIVE%20SEPARAT.PDF
Why don't you answer this one.

Interesting concept. I now go wherever I want, whenever I want, and make over 3 times what I made while in the navy. I really am not seeing the downside to my early end of tour of service.

**Isnít unemployment a great thing? So much time on your hands to do whatever you want. Funny thing is I love my job, my country, and most of all, when I retire, Iíll have an Honorable Discharge.

>P.S.S.
Most of the personnel who use drugs, more than likely will continue to use and never become a productive member of the community
More lies judgemental (You did it twice) religious right wing fundamentalist nut jobs would like you to believe.

**Hmmm, so why do you think we have such, strong and harsh penalties for drug offenders, not to mention the rehab clinic, Anti-drug education programs and law enforcement task forces against drugs.

Again, oxygen, or a lack of it, is a drug...so is propiganda.(Refer to the first one) You Mike certainly appear to be taken more by the later.

**No, Aaron I donít blame the Navy for ruining my life, Iím living my life. You should do the same and destroy this website and quit giving people false hope. You have no idea who I am. I have a successful career that deals with this very subject of conversation. Iím proud to wear the uniform and defend my country to the extents of my ability. I donít use drug, and never will. Stop making excuses for things that people had complete control of, and now wish they would have made the right choice instead of the drug choice.

May you live a life rich in propiganda (Strike Three) and misguided purpose and becme (Whereís the A?) a pillar of the community!

**I will!!

Hello,
Recently, I have been looking through different military blogs and found this site. You guys seem very knolwegable about the matter that I am researching on. This is my situation: I have been in the Army Reserve for over 5 years now. For all 5 years, I got good standings - good years- on my record. This past year, I served in OIF1 in Iraq for 14 months. After coming back from there, I have been busy trying to catch up with my school courses. Furthermore, this year, I am planning to take the MCAT and apply to med schools. I have been so busy that I couldn't make many of my drills. Due to missing drills, the unit is thinking about giving me a general discharge. Right now, I don't know if I should make up the missed drills- I don't even know if I can find the time to do that. Also, I am worried that the unit might get deployed again; therefore, I am thinking about taking this discharge before I get sent out again. Lately, I have been thiking about writing to the congress lady (in California) asking for help. Should I just accept this type of discahrge? Should I ask the congress lady for help? Any helpful comments or advices from you guys would be very appreciated. Thank you

>Should I just accept this type of discahrge?

you are probably not going to get the best advice from random people over the web. you may want to talk to a lawyer. you may not want to let the military know that you are talking to a lawyer right off the start either.

>your argument shows no contents towards the text.

and your blind opinion is irrelevent. yawn

>If you are thinking about joining the Military and you do drugs, DONíT JOIN. I donít want you and we donít need you. So, keep your drug loving A%# (in case children are reading this) at home.

I actually never did drugs until after I joined the navy and wanted to kill myself. really I do not do them often at all now...pass them up all the time...no desire.

>Black and white huh, we at least I can read and spell. English is your first language right? I corrected your spelling. For people reading this, do you really want to take the advice of someone who canít spell, or at least doesnít know what spell check or a dictionary is used for.

for people reading this, do you want to take the advice of someone who is so petty that spelling is one of their primary concerns?

>Again, itís not hard. You donít do drugs.

huffing paint is a drug. giving people inadequate oxygen levels is a drug. robbing a person of sunlight is a drug. its just one big hypocritical circus.

>Itís called a respirator, the respirator safety program. Of course you might not remember that one because we only have this in the Navy, not in Hell. You are required to wear them. NAVOSH requires it.

two parts to this one pal:
1.) you have to qualify to get the respirator. a friend of mine did not take the course and they made him paint the bilge without using one.
2.) when you create a large paint crew to paint the sub while underway (HIGHLY ILLEGAL) there are not enough respirators for the whole crew to use.

>Look everyone itís Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. Get real please, drug users are dumb already, lets not influence them anymore than necessary.

fair enough. explain why it was necissary to destroy my work records prior to processing me? feel free to get a clue.

>Try this, go to Google.com, and click, copy, and paste.

of course I could just do that from this page. really no need to go to Google to do that. Google is not the same thing as the WWW...just helping to clue-you-in.

>Isnít unemployment a great thing? So much time on your hands to do whatever you want. Funny thing is I love my job, my country, and most of all, when I retire, Iíll have an Honorable Discharge.

feel free to leave your name on this page and I bet I could rank #1 on Gogle for YOUR NAME. bet that same idea has commercial applications to...especially since people like you think Google is the WWW.

>Hmmm, so why do you think we have such, strong and harsh penalties for drug offenders, not to mention the rehab clinic, Anti-drug education programs and law enforcement task forces against drugs.

Since the cold war ended we needed a way to help justify throwing away more money.

>You should do the same and destroy this website and quit giving people false hope.

I am not going to self censor my thoughts because you think it would be a good thing for me to do. Exact reason why leaving the military was the right thing to do...make my own decisions and live my own life however and wherever I want to.

>You have no idea who I am.

Carmen Sandiego?

>I have a successful career that deals with this very subject of conversation.

me too. I only became a successful marketer because of the military.

>Iím proud to wear the uniform and defend my country to the extents of my ability.

is that what you actually believe you are doing? when you tell people who disagree with your point of view to self censor with bully speak? is that really patriotic?

I thought a little bit of dissent was a good thing.

>I donít use drug, and never will. Stop making excuses for things that people had complete control of, and now wish they would have made the right choice instead of the drug choice.

I am not making any excuses. Simply put the military is not for me and I am freely expressing that. Others may be thinking of joining and I would just like them to know that often it is something not worth doing.

back to a prior point

>You should do the same and destroy this website and quit giving people false hope.

so what you are saying is that if upon discharge for any reason that if the military does not like you then your life is destroyed forever? seems to me like it would be stupid to join the military if that is true. a risk not worth taking IMHO

Wow, did I strike a nerve or what. Look I have better things to do. Good luck with the OTH.

>Wow, did I strike a nerve or what.

no nerve struck, you just can't handle knowing the hypocricy of that system...

>Look I have better things to do. Good luck with the OTH.

and good luck to you too.

Shaffe (way above),
The best way you'll ever get out on a failure to adapt to military life is by having multiple visits with a psychologist/psychiatrist. Once you've met with him/her for at least a couple months and if you continually feel depressed and you're getting worse then eventually a psychologist might make the recommendation that your CO let you out based on your failure to adapt to the military. I've also heard that if you are persistent about wanting out and you're still in your first six months you might be able to get an entry level separation. But like I said, you must be persistent.
-D Brown

I am awaiting captain's mast in the next two weeks and am wondering what kind of effects an oth will have on me when I am out. I popped on a piss test and assume it will be oth maybe general. Need advice and info. Thanks

the effects of the OTH will carry with you if you want them to and let them. otherwise they will not.

Aaron (or anyone),
I'll be going to captain's mast in a few weeks. Do I go to an executive officer's screening first? If so, what is that like? And what exactly is oral admonition? thanks.
Jeremiah

>Do I go to an executive officer's screening first?

sometimes the do those and sometimes not. really its just an administrative feature. if they want to fuck you or have their mind set on the results of the mast before it starts they may not even need to do one...or if the XO thinks you are a piece of shit he may want to do it just to let you know what he thinks of you.

>If so, what is that like?

depends on if your XO is a likable or useful human being or a complete tool. pretty much they can either talk to you nicely or scold you.

>And what exactly is oral admonition?

thats where they call you a piece of shit. sometimes they do it in private, but I remember my old captain was such a piece of shit that he had a kid crying in front of the whole crew.

if they decide that they need to be mean scumbags because humanity and respect for a fellow man are not part of the rules then its probably best to ignore them.

im in the marines, in okinawa japan.i got njp for underage drinkin.joining the military was the worst decision i have ever made.i was only 17 when i went to boot camp and was to young to make a decision that would so much effect my life.its true most people in the marines care more about their reputation then anything and will walk over you and stab you in the back at any chance to kiss some higher rankin ass.

I got out of the navy about six months ago under an oth discharge and I only had about 3 months left on my four year contract. I popped for coke on my UA. I dont remember doing coke at all, but then again I dont remember much of the night due to the use of alcohol. I could of faught the charge but I felt I wasn't going to get any support from my command and it just would have dragged my seperation on. I was planning on going to college the whole time I was in the navy, that's the reason I joined. I did the whole G.I. bill thing, I even put an extra $600 on top of the $1200 G.I. plan, but since my o.t.h. all that just doesnt seem like it going to happen anymore. Now college is that much farther away from me. If there is any assistance I can recieve from anyone please let me know

Jeffrey Paul on January 21, 2005 5:30 PM

Quit question for any of you guys. My fiance just left for BCT on Wed. He had prior shoulder surgery 5 years ago. THe recruiter told him to lie about it. Before he even began BCT he hurt his shoulder. WHat are his chances of getting a medical discharge? Or will they keep him and make him suffer?

Thanks, Im just worried

Holy Shit, I can't believe I found this site. I have to admit, I can see both sides of the argument here...but mostly I have to say I find Aaron to be the Voice of Reason. I 'enlisted' (not really my choice actually) in the Navy when I was 17 in 1990, and was tops in my boot camp company. But when I got to "A" school I fell flat on my face....started doing acid and didn't give a shit about doing well, hated being a 'booter' and got really sick of being confined and treated like a douchebag by the half-assed bunghole 2nd Classes who ran our outfit, etc. I ended up getting busted with a fake ID (which I stole from another guy in boot and taped to the back of mine in the days when they had those 2-sided laminated ID's) because one of the tools I roomed with ratted on me...some of my bros conspired to help me get the hell out and one of them stole a car off the base in which I motored the fuck out of there (from Treasure Island, what an oxymoron that is) and ran out of gas in Nevada where I was arrested in at a truckstop by local police and put in a holding facility for juvenile delinquents (I was still only 17). When they figured out I was in the Navy they put me on a plane back to SF where I was picked up by the butthole 2nd Classes from my school and popped straight into the brig. Boy, that was a nightmare. After 3 months of solitary they finally put me in the GP and after another month of that they put me up in front of a General Court Martial. I didn't give a shit by then, just bawled my face off and asked to get out. They put me back in the brig for another couple months while they took their time processing me out, then I got to work in TPU picking up cigarette butts and scraping gum off the sidewalks for a couple weeks. When I got out I had a lot of trouble getting my life on track...spent several years bouncing around, working dickhead jobs and wasting my life away. I finally got a clue and realized I wasn't the piece of shit the Navy had made me feel like. The sum of my experience in the Navy was that no less than 80% of the people I was exposed to were either sadistic predators or just plain incompetent. I know what I did was wrong, and I've never tried to say I wasn't responsible for my actions. I just blew it, like lots of things in my life before and since. However, the OTH I got has never effected my life in any way. I went on to graduate from college with a degree in Russian language, and I now live and work in Kazakhstan. When I look back at how shitty my life was during those nine months (more than five spent in the brig), I just wish I had never been there in the first place. For those of you worried about getting on with your lives after an OTH, don't. Just get on with it. No one gives a rat's ass. Especially in this day and age, when we are living under 'questionable' circumstances. There are plenty of employers out there who don't have a hell of a lot of respect for what the military has been/is doing, and the only ones who might check are government employers. Anyone who has been in the military and gotten an OTH should know better than to seek employment with the government anyway. Leave it off your application and go along your merry way, and work on improving your life. What you should really think about is whether or not you're on the right track...drugs are bad, cuz hippies do drugs, and hippies suck. I haven't smoked weed in quite a while myself, though I wouldn't mind. The thing is I plan to come back to the States at some point and know that our fascist state essentially mandates that any poor soul who wants to apply for a job must take a piss test. So, I cheerfully abstain. Do what works for you and you'll prevail in the end. Cheers to you all, my fellow OTH'ers! Shouldn't someone make a national gathering for us or something? They seem to have that shit for just about everyone else!!!

I do not necisarily agree with the statement "hippies suck," but other than that I think that last feedback was fairly accurate.

lets put him in jail for a while until we figure out how we want to punish him, etc.

and the whole "your life is ruined" bullshit they try to feed ya... its just not true. move on and be done with it, etc.

Sorry Aaron, I was quoting Cartman again...:)

I SIGNED UP FOR 3 YRS IN THE ARMY IN 98. I STILL WAS THINKING I WAS IN A HIGH SCHOOL AND TRIED TO ACT LIKE SOMEONE I WASNT AND TO PROVE IT TO MY "HOMEBOYS" I WENT AWOL WITHOUT THINKING OF THE CONSEQUENCES. I ENDED UP RECIEVING AN OTH DISCHARGE. NOW I AM MARRIED WITH THREE YOUNG CHILDREN AND DISCOVERED THAT I REALLY AM A FAMILY MAN. I TRIED TO GET BACK INTO THE ARMY BUT I GOT AN RE4. I ALSO CANNOT ENJOY THE BENEFITS LIKE THE VA LOAN OR THE MONTGOMERY GI BILL(WHICH LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I PAYED 1200 DOLLARS FOR). I TRIED TO SEND A UPGRADE BUT I WAS DENIED. I AM ALSO WILLING TO GO IN FRONT OF THE BOARD, BUT I AM WORRIED WITH NO REPRESENTATION I WILL BE DENIED. IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE, PLEASE SEND IT. BY THE WAY THE KNUCKELHEADED THING IS I LEFT WITH ONLY 6 MONTHS LEFT ON MY CONTRACT. PLEASE HELP

Just a quick question: popped for valium (schedual VI) want to get back in. I am keeping this short and sweet as I am sure you have heard enough crying by now. OTH for a controlled substance... hmm, heard it does not fly, but... really? Is there no other way back in? Yadda-yadda... got short changed like everyone else. Currently have about 2+ years as a productive member of society, working, paying taxes. Does that mean anything at all... the daily grind is getting to me and I am looking to get back in if I can. Contacted my county exec before going all the way. Any advice? Am I waisting my time and energy?

actually i think there is a way to get back in but why would you want to. when i got kicked out for staroids they said something about being able to get back in because of the type of dischare oth. but why would you want to all the millitary is, is cilvilived slavery

Hello, I was 17 when I went into the navy 4 weeks after graduation from High School. I was in from Aug 89 to Oct 92 served on two ships USS Raleigh Lpd-1 during Desert Storm. After decommishion went too Holy Loch Scotland too USS Simon Lake AS-33. All was well until I went too Simon Lake then started haveing trouble. Started smokeing pot with the Dead Heads I was living with and failed a drug test. I wish I could go back and change the things I did but I cant so we have too live with it. I regret I did what I did due too the fact I embarased my self and my family at home. I have thought about trying too change my discharge but probably willnot. I no longer use drugs or drink and have changed my life around but it offends me that a stupid decision I made when I was 20 still effects me now and will always the rest of my life. I have done well since getting out of the Navy but in my mind I still think about it alot,dream about it alot,wake up in the middle of the night in cold sweet thinking im still on the ship on restriction waiting to be discharged. I didnt do it to get kicked out I did it cause I liked it. I had been doing it since I was 13 so I told the recruiter I had and he said we would just say I tried it once. I vote and I am currently applying to get my Hand gun carry permit but I dont know if it will effect it any. I probably will not mention my OTH to them because I know Im not the same person I was in 92. Its a form of discrimination is my opinion if you cant do something because of something as small as smokeing weed 13 years ago but oh how society likes too discriminate. Oh well My advice is if you are planing to use drugs to get discharged dont. Try to hang in there and get some help I let things get on my mind easily and get me down maybe you are not like that but then again maybe you are. I hated the Navy and wanted out but not the way it happend cant do much about it now.
Peace

I wonder if it is an automatic reversal if I go all the way to Virginia to go before the discharge board for going awol. I currently live in albuquerque which is probably closer to South America than virginia. I just dont wanna waste my money . any advice

Do the military keeps paying you while on a military mental institution? I think I am going to be "locked" for a while and want to make sure I will still receive my check so I can keep my bills on check.

Hi Jimmy
sometimes they may and sometimes they may cut part of your pay. thats the beauty of the military, you never know when you will wake up in a mental institution receiving so little pay that your world outside financially falls apart for you.

My boyfriend got kicked out of the Navy under OTH nearly 8 months ago for popping on a piss test...cocaine. He served 8 years and was an IT1 with a great record. He was the best at what he did and everyone knew it. Its been 6 months now so he can apply for an upgrade but what are the chances of that panning out and where does he start. He still has not found a reputable job and I'm wondering if this is because of employers knowing about his discharge...are my chances of having a secure future with him low because of this OTH?

Two options Rudy

your boyfriend can worry about the OTH and carry negative karma and bitterness with him

-OR-

he can forget it ever happened, fail to mention his terms of discharge, and continue on with life

it may take a bit to find a decent job because the current leaders of the country are economically fucking it up

Thanks for the quick response!

If we fail to mention terms of discharge, should we fail to mention that we were in the military at all. If no, what if we were asked about the terms of discharge. Lie ?

>If we fail to mention terms of discharge, should we fail to mention that we were in the military at all.

this depends on the job type and your age of course. if you are 35 its hard to say you have been doing nothing for the last xx years. if you are younger its easier to not mention.

>If no, what if we were asked about the terms of discharge. Lie ?

well I dont think you need to lie as its easy to manipulate percepttion without actually lying.

Q: so why did you get out of the military?

A: my time was up. It wasn't really what I was hoping for and am moving on. -OR-

A: my time was up. I only joined to go to college, but in the end I decided not to go back to school. -OR-

A: my time was up. I only joined to make my xyz proud, but I am a bit too ambitious for that lifestyle.

A: Family illness. My time was just about up and I had to go home and take care of some stuff.

etc.

and its not lying to say that your time was up, because one way or another your time is up when you leave.

Perception, tone, and framing are the key elements to having your terms of discharge go unquestioned. If you don't act like its a big deal some people may not ask about it. Additionally most people don't expect you to have gotten kicked out, its just not how most people think.

Additionally some people realize some things are just bullshit and the terms of discharge do not mean much.

Good site Aaron. I too was fucked over pretty good by the Navy. What Aaron says is right though-don;t let the Navy make you think you are a piece of shit. There isn't a person anywhere on this planet that never made a mistake-especially in the military. As for Re-4's don't worry the Navy hands those out like candy. Yes we broke rules but they were not deserving of that grade of discharge. Remember those Army reservists that refused to drive convoy in Iraq? They got in less trouble than most on this board and those that were cut got better discharges than I did. Fuck the Navy.

For those of you interested in serving again there is a way. (I hope you don't mind me posting this Aaron) You can get a waiver in the Army National Guard (reserves too but its harder) and after a time go active if you like. If not you serve your time and get a brand new dd-214 when you are done.
I did it. And another guy I know with an Re-4 from Navy did it too. We are both much happier and much higher ranks than we were in the Navy too! Go figure.

There are literally thousands of us "Navy rejects" that go on to lead productive lives-even back in the military.
Go here and click on message board to get started:
http://www.usnca.org/
Read through the threads and you may find a recruiter to help you. If not look in your area. Be warned some recruiters regardless of branch are dickheads so you have to keep trying and some just don't know/understand the waiver process. You may have to try outside your city or state but be persistent!


Bob the Viking on February 3, 2005 4:48 PM

Dude, I just found out like 6 years after receiving an OTHER THAN HONORABLE discharge from the marines that they could be appealed and possibly upgraded. Mine was for MISCONDUCT, I have a job but it sucks, and I feel like I've been missing out on so much because of this OTH. Are any of you guys from Georgia, so you can give me some detailed advice on what routes to take to try to get this thing straightened out? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Greg,

I see you posted on the Navy board but I am still not sure what you are looking for. An upgrade or trying to go back into the service?

If you just want your discharge upgraded you will have to go to a review board. I don't like being negative or discouraging but frankly I doubt they will change it. It will take a good deal of time and effort so good luck if you choose this route. I have never heard of the Navy doing it-remember they gave the damn thing to you in the first place. I am not saying it never happens but it is pretty rare. Here is a link to get you started and you can google the rest.
http://www.court-martial.com/awol_ua.htm

Also google appealing a navy re-4 and the like to get an idea of what you will be dealing with.
Good luck!

Bob the VIking on February 4, 2005 2:10 PM

I was young and stupid and to this day have regreted asking to be let out. They gave me a RE4 code and a OTH. I watch higher ups get away with the same things i was punished for. Even an E5 who was arrested for a DUI and running from base police only recieve restriction. I would like to reenlist. Does anyone know how i should go about it or if i even have a chance.

when you get an OTH discharge for a positive drug test is it possible to get it changed to a general discharge? Thanks!

Just found out I cant get my handgun carry permit due too my OTH from the Navy. I could lie about it and risk them finding out due too the fact that the FBI dos a background check in the process. It costs 115.00 for the check and im not going too risk them discovering the OTH cause I would loose my money and possibly face charges for not giveing the info. I was not aware that a OTH would cause that kind of trouble almost like being labeled a terrorist but I bet that they could get the permit LOL.

>when you get an OTH discharge for a positive drug test is it possible to get it changed to a general discharge?

a guy who was in restriction with me got a general discharge. it depends on the "command climate" and how much of a "team player" you were before getting in trouble.

command climate = how miserable are the crew and officers
team player = were you an ass kiss

U.S. Code on how to change your discharge. Good Luck, you'll need it.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/08aug20031600/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/julqtr/32cfr70.8.htm

Whoever it may concern,

I will be graduating college very soon, I have an impressive resume but because I got kicked out of the military for substance abuse it is very difficult to get police departments to take me seriously. I would greatly appreciate any advice, I would be willing to pay some serious money to anyone who could sincerely help me get this resolved. Thank you

Eric W. Baker on February 5, 2005 1:23 PM

HELLO FELLOW OTH'ers,

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY MOST OF US HAVE BEEN IN THIS BOAT AWHILE, POPPING POSITIVE FOR MARYJANE. I FOR ONE KNOW THAT IT WAS A STUPID THING TO DO I WAS A 4.0 SAILOR COMING INTO MY COMMAND. JUST GOT MARRIED AND WAS TRYING TO HAVE KIDS WITH MY BRIDE. WELL I WENT ON A WEEK DEPLOYMENT OFF THE CA COAST, GOT BACK AND FOUND THAT DURING MY ABSENCE MY WIFE HAD BEEN TO THE NAVAL DR. WHILE THEY PROCEEDED TO GIVE HER SOME KIND OF MEDICINE TOLD HER SHE WAS NOT PREGNATE AND SENT HER HOME.
WHEN I RETURNED HOME MY WIFE OPENED THE DOOR AND HANDED ME A FETUS WRAPPED IN TP. I WAS FLOORED. I TOOK MY WIFE BACK TO THE NAV DOC AND DEMANDED AN EXPLANATION THE SR. OFFICER PROCEEDED TO TELL ME THE TEST THEY TOOK WERE NOT READABLE, I CUSSED HIM OUT AND TOLD HIM THEY WERE A BUNCH OF HACKS THAT KILLED MY KID THEN LEFT, THE NEXT DAY I REPORTED THE INCIDENT TO MY COMMAND, THEY SAID THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO, SO I ASKED TO BE DISCHARGED IMMEDIATLY AGAIN I WAS TOLD THIS WAS NOT GOING TO BE DONE EITHER. I WAS PISSED SO I WENT TO A NEIGHBORS HOUSE SAT AND GOT HIGH WHILE THINKING THE NAVY DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT WHY SHOULD I THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY. BULLSHIT YOUR FAMILY IS ON THERE OWN. SO WHAT I AM SAYING DUE TO THE CIRCUIMSTANCES I GUESS I MAY HAVE OVER REACTED BUT ON THE SAME HAND THE NAVY DROPPED THERE STANDARDS OF PROTECTING MY INTEREST AND MY FAMILY. I TODAY AM DISABLED DUE TO INJURIES RECEIVED FROM CONSTRUCTION WORK, RE-MARRIED, AND STILL TODAY REGRET WHAT I DID. I LOVED BEING IN THE NAVY AND I MISS MY JOB. BUT LIFE GOES ON AS THEY SAY. JUST FELT LIKE SHARING. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL SHIPPIES AND SEE YOU ON THE FLIP SIDE. HEY MARINES, BIG SEMPER FI TO YOU CAMP PENDELTON BOYS. IT WAS A PLEASURE SERVING WITH YOU ALL.

I called the GI rights hotline and they told me the easiest way to get out is to file for consiensous objector (sp?)....Anyway they told me the process could take 6months even up to a year. Has anyone ever tried this or does anyone know of this working? Please let me know...

I deleted the two page post about muslims being evil because
a.) I think its bullshit
b.) it has nothing to do with the topic of this page
c.) if the US faulters the type of imploding that would occur would be an economic one, and blind support of bullshit wars helps that along. so thanks but no thanks on that one.

I have a different story, and am not afraid to tell. I have been to Captain's Mast once for disrespect, UA, and direlection of duty. I was "awarded" 30/30 half months pay for 1 month. And a page 13 saying I'd be good for at least 6 months. Well it has been six months and 8 days since then. I am being put on report for being 5 minutes late to conduct colors (let the flag down). Thinking about going UA, because the Navy is not for everyone, or even so, it has many "non-sense" rules. But mainly the Navy is uncaring to it's members. I am and airdel Sailor so many of you know what I mean. Working 20- 36 hours straight, getting quals, eating, washing our ass maybe, and sleep please. Enough wining, just looking for a way out. By the way I really am gay, so not quite sure how that can help, just looking for some guidance as to how to get out honorable, or get an OTH made into an honorable based on maybe slander, and some more whining bullshit. Don't get me wrong, this was/is a mistake, but I accepted it in Boot Camp, but the Navy is too impersonal. They say they'll help you, but only to their advantage, and when they think help is needed. Please somebody somewhere help me. Thanks, me and my man would appreciateit.

Thank you Aaron for this site.
Our son, a nuc, just went before Captain's Mast for positive cocaine as result of drunken night on town. He waived rights, provided honest confession as we have always told him to tell the truth then received max plus recommendation for OTH. He received Honorable discharge at earlier re-enlistment. Has applied for hearing with Administrative Discharge Board. What is best course not to receive OTH? Should we write our congressional representatives and will it help? JAG prosecutor told him he would have a snowballs chance in hell to avoid OTH.

Please help.

Loving parents

Hi Tom
I am not sure if I can easily answer that question for you. If you know people who are well tied into the government you basically can bypass most of the bad deals. Otherwise I am unsure.

I know a friend was about to get discharged at his request. He decided not to, but all it would take would be a request from one of his congressmen. Not sure if its the same after someone gets in trouble though.

Thank you Aaron for fast response.

Not connected at all. Will it do any harm to involve representatives if possible?

Tom

An other than honorable is really not a big deal IMHO. maybe your kid does not get help with the cost of college but other than that I don't see the real benefit in most of the other benefits.

to put the situation in perspective, I got an other than honorable discharge and my roommate and other friend both got honorable ones. yet I created my own business and they both get most of their income from work I provide them.

the other than honorable discharge will ruin your life stuff is just scare tactic bullshit.

-they want to scare the person and make them feel like a failure for life
-they want to use that person as an example of what happens to bad people who fail to conform. this way they can try to make people think the alternative (of getting out) is far worse than the shitty life the military offers.

in all reality the facts don't stack up with their story though. right now I can go whereever I want, whenever I want to, I have no boss, etc. Far better than the shit the navy served me for almost 6 years.

Thank You,. Our son was never in any trouble prior to Navy. We believe he will do well when he gets out. Would just like for him not to have the OTH. I read earlier that it helps to have the Honorable Discharge that he received at re-enlistment. Does a DD214 come with that? Is it a good idea to hire a lawyer to represent him at the board facing the JAG who has already said he did not have a snowball's chance in hell of receiving anything other than the OTH?

Hi Tom

here is the lowdown on the lawyer front. do not let the navy know you are hiring a lawyer, but they screw up the paperwork on many of the cases. the case can be thrown out if the paperwork is screwed up.

if you can afford a lawyer you may want to hire one and have him look through the paperwork without the navy knowing. then see where you should go from there.

My son joined the Mariene Corp and is in boot camp in San Diego. To make a long story short, we have been receiving letters from him and he is consdering committing sucide. He says he can not indure the mental part of the training. I need some help I feel helpless I don't know what to do.

Hal Mansfield on February 14, 2005 8:33 PM

Hi Hal
you need to use your own judgement to find out whether or not your kid wants to be in the marines and how he would react to you helping him.

in all reality he may want to visit the chaplain or your can talk to the chaplain about the situation.

OK, HERE'S WHATS UP! DONT DO ANYTHING STUPID THAT WILL GET YOU AN OTH...BUY SOME HOMO MAGS, SAY YOU HAVE A GAY LOVER...POSSIBLY A FRIEND WHO WILL VOUCH FOR YOU...THEN HOPE YOU GET AN HONORABLE...IF YOU DONT, THEN GUESS WHAT...IN SOCIETY IF ANYONE DENIES YOU WORK BECAUSE OF IT THEY'ER DISCRIMINATING AGAIST YOU FOR BEING "GAY"...WHICH IS A HATE CRIME, SO DONT BE STUPID...SAY YOU'ER GAY!!! AND STOP CONTEMPLATING WAYS TO GET AN OTH, I.E. FAILED PISS TEST, ETC...

Oh, and Hal M...your son needs to leave the marines now...he needs to be discharged,..you need to contact his unit and tell them that he's suicidal and if they dont do anything then you have grounds to sue the federal government if your son kills himself or anyone...

It is really sad when the navy say's you are malingering when in fact you are serious.It is really a shame that the navy has that kind of behavior.

They will know it is a serious problem when it is too late.

i got discharged with a general other than honorable in 2003. i am trying to see what is the best way to get it upgraded because i feel i was unjustly discharged. i was a truck driver in civilian life and had to miss drills (i was a reservist) but i did get the ok from my platoon commander. i made up all of my drills and have the paperwork to prove i did so but when i sent it to my reserve center they lost a faxed copy and the copy i handed them. i got a letter saying i was discharged later that year. i went to the reserve center and talked to the c.o. he told me that he would sign off on adminstrative error if i had the paperwork. i had very detailed records of when i called my c.o and why i had to miss the drill. when he saw these records he told one of the staff sgts that he did not want anything to do with it and did not help me any. my platoon commander told me to call my congressman but i was told there are other avenues i can take. does anyone have any suggestions and how long would it take to get a discharge upgraded?

I got out of the Marines on a medical discharge, re-3p, would love to join back it, would it be possible for me to go back in? by the way I also got a severance pay, I did my 4 years... or who would I need to contact to upgrade my dd214? thanks,
Hal, as far as your kid goes in bootcamp with the the suicide thing.. contact his recruiter and let them know that you need to get to them right away, or contact, the red cross, they work just as fast.

This is directed to Aaron, I do agree with you that the discharge means shit and it shouldn't hold you back in your life..I to have been pretty sucessful despite having a OTH. The only regret I have towards it is the impression it may or may not leave on my children/grandchildren, but hopefully I have raised them well enough to not judge someone by a piece of paper, judge them for who they are and realize we are human and will make mistakes till the day we die. So I have looked into appealing my oth, just beginning actually and I may stop here with advice from you and your readers. Requested copies of my DD214 and service record (destroyed mine upon discharge in 1990) All I received was my dd214... wheres my evals, ratings, letters of commendation, etc?
Do I have to request for them elsewhere?
Box 24 on dd214 says other than honorable, box 25 says milpersman 3630600, box 26 says HKQ, box 28 says misconduct-commision of a serious offense.
As far as I can dig up on the net these codes conflict with each other, can I do something about it? Misconduct-commision of a serious offense is just bullshit, I never hurt anyone, I told my division officer off and failed to "follow a direct order". I was drunk when I joined the navy and drunk all thru it! At Mast they had me so scared I would have signed anything(Making big rock into little rocks at Treasure Island, that kind of shit) Should they not have offered me substance abuse/treatment? Its been almost 7 years since my last drink and I realize that I have been an alcoholic all my life, I am not trying to "get-off" easy. Its been 15 years this month since my discharge could this prevent me from pursuing.
I know this jumps all over but it is just a summary. More than likely I will follow the advice/recommendations given here, which ever they may be. My kids are still to young(11 and 8) to explain this to them, All People around me judge me for me, including my employers(Have been a structural engineer since the day I got out).
Any and all advice will be appreciated.
Thank you Aaron for developing this site, any time I get pissed off about my dd214, I can log on here and be relieved!!! Thanks again

Hi Pab
thanks for your honesty and comments.

I don't have the answers to your question. just when they pissed me off I made a site about it. I now rank well for my old boat name, discharge types, types of boats, forms they send people, etc.

THe problems occur when there are no support network and no feedback loops we get to be segmented. As individuals we are made to feel bad about how we are horible human beings.

Lets not forget that we are human. We all make mistakes. My mistake was not using drugs, but even joining the military in the first place. The fact that I made it along as far as I did is a testimate to my will power.

Lets not forget that the people judging us get paid to kill people. What do they know about humanity? Why should we carry their opinions or mindframes forward in our lives?

Most people shouldn't.

cheers
aaron

An interesting site. I got an OTH from the USMC in 1983, I've never had any employer check on my discharge. They make it sound when you get out like it's some big deal, but it's not. The only draw back is if you apply for any VA benefits. An OTH doesn't exclude you from benefits, but they can depending on the circumstances surrounding your discharge, mainly persistent and willful misconduct. I've always put on any application I got an honorable, the only way they can get any information on you is to file under the freedom of information act, and that's unlikely. They don't just give out personal information, you would have to sign a release for them to get it.


And in the night of death, hope sees a star, and listening love hears the rustle of a wing.

Here's a link if you want to request any of your military records.

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/vetrecs/index.html

i was booted from the navy in 1990 because i got busted on a drug screen for thc. thats fine but the pisser of it is that when i went before captains mass there was a nother shipmate in trouble for a crack cocain deal that involved the shooting of a civilian, yet that airman got to stay in and all he recieved was a reduction in rate and they revoked his flight deck status. all i did was get with the wrong people and got seen smoking a very small joint in st. thomas. it really suks to me because every male in my family all the way back to the revolutionary war was in the navy. so i got rode hard when i came home. a side from all that the captian of my ship, the Saratoga , was going in front of the man for killing a little girl while DUI, so i figure he proably wanted to take as many out as he could since he would no longer be in command of a sea going vessle ever again. my whole life all i wanted to do was follow the family way and be a 4.0 sailor, and surprisingly enough still do. but i guess uncle sam don't give a shit about anyones feelings on any subject.

Hey all!

First off I wanted to say thanks to Aaron for creating a site to help and guide people in this subject. Keep up the good work! We all appreciate it!

As for me I went UA in Basic in the US Army in 2003. I was your basic Infantryman. I was UA for 45 days and turned myself in at the gates of Fort Sill, OK where the paperwork is processed faster and closer to my hometown. They processed me in out with an OTH in no kidding 6 days! Right now I've never been happier. I been working at a business that pays me decently for only being 19 and working with them since I got out. Oh by the way I was foolish at 17 and signed my delayed entry program forms and left for basic 2 weeks after high school graduation. I'm not going to get into too much detail but since Aaron you're helping people mostly from the Navy and some from Marines... if you don't have a problem anyone that needs help from the US Army that are/will be UA drop me a line I can help out with any extra info or advice to make things easier.

Never looked back and to be honest was the best decision I made when there were problems at home. Never had problems getting a job and life has been awesome without the Army on my back.

Later all,
Brad

ok ive been in the active army for over 3yrs, im about to get chaptered, do i still keep my gi bill since i paid it off already or no?

well disregard the question i asked, i found out you dont get it even if you already paid it off

Where can I find more information about an RE4 code?

I was just recently discharged from the usmc i got an oth and i was wondering how long it takes to get back to honorable or if i should just go an enlist in the army nationalguard for a year please help soon

if you read Mike's last two posts those are the exact type of judgemental close minded people you will be working with if / when you join the military.

Mike just posted a third message which was so offensive that I had to remove it. He was trying to add noise to this thread to make it less useful.

I appreciate all the useful contributions most people posting to this thread are making and will not let this person destroy the quality of the thread to show their shame and guilt about their own life choices.

ok im the guy who asked about the gi bill, I just want to distance myself from the other mike or Mike, cause i didnt write anything like that

the real mike on March 7, 2005 9:07 AM

ok are you still eligible for grant money if you got an other than honorable, cause i have no college courses or anything, so my job choices are pretty limited, id aprecciate any info you guyd might have

the real mike on March 7, 2005 9:11 AM

ok are you still eligible for grant money if you got an other than honorable, cause i have no college courses or anything, so my job choices are pretty limited, id aprecciate any info you guyd might have

the real mike on March 7, 2005 9:11 AM

hi real Mike
I actually got a job and they did not ask about my info. then I stopped working for them and started working on the web.

I do not know the answers to those questions right now as schooling is not the path I took. the path I took was to screw around on the web, hence this page.

once you do research into the topic though if you could post your findings here that would be awesome.

wish you the best of luck and if you truely want to do well then you still can. many people do not mesh well with the military.

cheers
aaron

My son just got out of the good old USMC with an OTH. You do qualify for grant money for school. You'll need to go to Fafse.ed.gov and fill out the application to apply. The only way you wouldn't qualify is if you had a dishonorable discharge. They will also consider you and independent because you are a veteran even with an OTH....how ironic they kick people out of the military and the government still helps fund your education. I hope this information helps you. Good luck -

My son got 'the boot' for a postive ua...
his last day was feb. 25, he found himself a job 2 days before that and was honest about what and why he got kicked out. So... thanks for the positive feed back. Good Luck to all of you. Life does go on!! Peace
Shelley

Thanks for the info, I already got everything setup after i read all the info you guys gave me.
I'm my own 2 feet and will remain so

the real mike on March 8, 2005 8:58 AM

Does anyone know where a person can go to see what the Army chapters are that people can be released under?

Thanks!

I got a OTH from the Navy in Dec03. It's been over a year(now March05) and I am now certified WA EMT-B and want to go into the Army Combat Medic program. If anyone has help on how to get an OTH/RE-4 changed to where one can go back into service, please contact me ASAP at Novafreak64@Yahoo.Com. Thank you anyone! ~Thomas~

Hey guys, this is the most helpfull sight of all! I am really bumming because I just got issued an OTH but am still here stuck on the ship for three months straight. I feel my OTH was unjust and college means the world to me. DOes anybody have a definate answer as to how this will affect my GI bill? I really think that if they take that away from you then it is only right for them to pay back the damn money that you put into it out of your paycheck.. Please reply about the college info..

to whom it may concern.
im getting discharged out of the army on a 14-12b misconduct what the worse that can happen with an oth? every body in my chain of command said im fuck for life is this true? Im not a drugie or any thing like that im just trying to drive on.
thanks

If you only got an OTH it is generally no big deal and you command is lying to you.

generally when kicking people out of the military the chain of command can be some of the nastiest most spiteful and most horrible people in the world.

when people tell you how stuff will be you can either accept it as fact or make good things happen.

you dont have to make an OTH discharge stick with you and really it is not that big of a deal.

My boyfriend got the boot from the USMC just 8 months shy of finishing his 4 year enlistment term. He got an OTH shortly after having knee surgery in August. We weren't expecting him home on Christmas Eve, but there he was knocking on my door telling me he was home for good, that they seperated him on an OTH that morning. My question is, and I've read a lot of your posts saying that it's going to be hard for any military personnel to find a job between 3 and 6 months out, and I've also read where if you don't mention it chances are an employer won't find out about it, hence "Don't tell if they ask"?

What benefits should he get? Is it really worth fighting the DRB to get it upgraded or are we better off saving our money and using it for something more productive? And also, can they really give you an OTH for having an injury or is there something else to this that he isn't telling me?

Or is it true, and his chain of command really are a bunch of assholes?

moonlitmagic on March 11, 2005 3:23 AM

>justin, as far as i know you have to have an honorable discharge to get your gi bill, cause im not getting mine and i already paid it off

the real mike on March 11, 2005 10:15 AM

I was diagnosed with Multiple Schlerosis in 2001. My neurologist says that my condition existed for at least 10 years prior to that and may be military service related. Where do I go to find out what I can do about it. I am currently permanently disabled and am unable to work.

I was diagnosed with agoraphobia. They ask me if i wanted to stay or go. I was 19 and i had a baby on the way, so i got out.Now i am starting to think that it was the biggest mistake of my young life. Well now i am 23 and i want to get back in Can someone please help me?

Marcus Adams on March 12, 2005 11:49 PM

Marcus what kind of discharge was it? General, General Under OTH, General Under Honorable with Medical listed as the SPN code or what?? If your RE code is RE4 the only chance you have is going National Guard. Talk to a recruiter about it, although I think you did the right thing by getting out and being there for your child and the mother. You were there during all of the baby's important stages.

moonlitmagic on March 14, 2005 6:00 AM

Thomas, four words: Naval Discharge Review Board
three more words: Good F*#)*'n Luck!

It's a long, drawn out, pain in the ass process, and you definately do NOT want a JAG or a public pretender for a lawyer. This crap is going to cost you big bucks, and take forever, and chances are they still won't upgrade it.

moonlitmagic on March 14, 2005 6:04 AM

What happens if you are being offered an OTH for what used to be failure to adapt. Isn't that a general discharge? What can I do to not recieve that discharge

depends tammy, on whether you want out or not. Just go straight to your CO, a Sgt Maj, or Lt. Col will do just fine, and tell them you're gay / lesbian. They'll kick you out immediately with an honorable, and you wont have to waste your time and or money later trying to fight the incompetent morons.

moonlitmagic on March 15, 2005 8:42 AM

Aaron,

Your site is filled with comments from people who refuse to be held accountable for their actions. I guess it is easier to blame your Chain of Command, the Navy, the DALLAS, or whatever other myriad of things you care to blame for your inability to do your job, but hundreds of thousands of sailors come to work every day, and do theirs. Of course not all of them like it, but they don't use drugs or lie about being gay, or go UA, or commit suicide, they do the job, they do their time, and they go home.

I find it interesting that you make out Nuc ET to be this incredibly difficult job, one that was so stressful that you didn't ever get time off, and considered taking your own life to get out of the job. I have 10 years of time on 2 different subs, one boomer, and one fast attack, and I remember throwing Spades or burning flicks with an awful lot of nukes.....maybe you were the only one in the Navy that worked 24 hours a day.

So continue to blame the system for your shortcomings, continue to lie about your discharge to your employers, continue to flaunt your incredible wealth, and super job (which I of course think is bullshit) to all these young men and women whose lives are also ruined by their decisions, but for Pete's sake do two things for me.

1. Have some respect for those people who continue to serve their country Honorably, and who protect your ability to post this drivel.

2. Use spell check.

~ Active Duty Navy, LDO, and Lovin' It.

Active Duty Navy on March 17, 2005 7:27 PM

>Your site is filled with comments from people who refuse to be held accountable for their actions.

...or people who did not fit in or did not care to fit into a system that has zero empathy and no respect for human life.

>I guess it is easier to blame your Chain of Command, the Navy, the DALLAS, or whatever other myriad of things you care to blame for your inability to do your job, but hundreds of thousands of sailors come to work every day, and do theirs.

what is the retention rate of submarine nuclear ETs? how much of a bonus does the navy need to give people to resign? a big number. hmm. wonder what is up with that?

>Of course not all of them like it, but they don't use drugs or lie about being gay, or go UA, or commit suicide, they do the job, they do their time, and they go home.

this is the problem in the navy. this is the typical sailor right here. if you don't fit in then you are a horrible person who should be treated with no respect.

that is the main message this honorable sailor has to offer.

>I find it interesting that you make out Nuc ET to be this incredibly difficult job, one that was so stressful that you didn't ever get time off, and considered taking your own life to get out of the job.

where did I say it was incredibly difficult? it was more horrific on the front of the environmental effects and complete lack of social, physical, or mental activity.

perhaps better read as: some animals should not be caged.

>I have 10 years of time on 2 different subs, one boomer, and one fast attack, and I remember throwing Spades or burning flicks with an awful lot of nukes.....maybe you were the only one in the Navy that worked 24 hours a day.

in your off hours. when you were not working. where were you? hmm. the sub.

  • not really "home"
  • no sunlight
  • low oxygen levels
  • shitty food
  • no family
  • no girlfriend
  • told that you can not excercise
  • surrounded by mostly depressed people

if only I could rejoin...

>So continue to blame the system for your shortcomings,

I have no regrets. the navy what made me wealthy and helped me find my job. am proud of the service I did.

>continue to lie about your discharge to your employers,

  • I have no employer other than myself.
  • I have this site. it is fairly honest about my type of discharge. no lies here my friend.
  • I even find talking about my term of discharge as a good ice breaker in casual conversation.

>continue to flaunt your incredible wealth, and super job (which I of course think is bullshit)

and so long as you are close minded and believe the navy is the best thing since sliced bread it really does not matter what else is out there.

or at least not until the day you realize it.

>to all these young men and women whose lives are also ruined by their decisions,

if an other than honorable discharge actually ruined your life then why would anyone even consider joining? many many many people go to captains mast or courts martial. many people get OTH discharges.

>1. Have some respect for those people who continue to serve their country Honorably, and who protect your ability to post this drivel.

for that reason this page exists. I realize that the terms of discharge does not dictate the quality of a person.

>2. Use spell check.

"Correct" spelling, indeed, is one of the arts that are far more esteemed by schoolma'ams than by practical men, neck-deep in the heat and agony of the world. - H.L. MENCKEN

so unlike some of the people here who have admittedly used and are trying to get out of an OTH, what about those that DIDN'T use?
well i'll tell you. as stupid as the story sounds it's true.
my husband popped for weed in december which was a complete surprise to him. days later when he was talking with a friend about what happened it came to light that some brownies my husband ate while at drunk at a friends house, were pot brownies (who in the hell does that anymore??). according to the test, he had 39 nanograms in his system, the navy tests for 19, which is SEVERELY low. civilian employers look for AT LEAST 100 nanograms in their dug tests. so begrudgingly we took the demotion, from e5 to e4 and just planned on making his case during drb. drb came and went and we went to admin board. admin board decided to toss him on the street. well all fine and dandy if they don't want to believe him, if there were not family involved, it wouldn't be so hard to swallow. want to know what makes this story oh so worse?? our 7 year old son is battling cancer for the second time and is currently in the middle of chemotherapy. his command was WELL aware of this and STILL decided to kick him out... WITH AN OTH.
i am FURIOUS to the point that i want to hurt someone, and i don't care because i'm civilian. our son was originally diagnosed with cancer when he was four. he was able to beat the cancer once, but the cancer came back in feb 04. his care right now is critical to his survival. and the navy turned their back on him like it was nothing. we've struggled with the navy for the entire length of his disease. my husband could barely get the time off needed to take our son in for appointments or thereapy. he was always asked assinine questions, had it been an officer's son that had cancer... nothing would have ever been questioned.
i feel like i should take this to media. i'm sure they navy wouldn't like it to be made public that they really DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT FAMILY. cuz when it comes down to it... your family didn't come in your seabag right?
so on top of losing the healthcare for my son, we'll have to move out of our apartment and uproot him from what he knows and what he's comfortable in during the time in his life where home is his salvage away from the hospital... did the officer fucks give second thought to that as they left admin board laughing and joking???
zero tolerance is bullshit, it should be ripped and burned. i know there must have been other instances where people have been unknowingly drugged, are they all kicked out with the same prejudice??? how fair is that?
we even tried to have our friend write a statement telling what happened, but he's too much of a fag and afraid HE'LL get busted... he's civilian.
the only area of the navy i haven't had a problem with is the hospital. with having spent so much time there with our son, they have given him the best care available, and i'll never have a bad thing to say about that. i'm to this day GRATEFUL for the doctors who have cared for him.
fleet can go to hell
read this story and tell me if the zero tolerance punishment fits the "crime"... the crime that never even happened.

military may protect and serve the country, but they leave their own out in the cold... and piss on them

I am only going to dignify one part of your retort with one of my own, I am not a typical sailor, if you would have read the entire post you would see that I am an LDO, obviously someone who loves my job, and who has been around for a while....but I digress, let's examine this point:

>Of course not all of them like it, but they don't use drugs or lie about being gay, or go UA, or commit suicide, they do the job, they do their time, and they go home.

this is the problem in the navy. this is the typical sailor right here. if you don't fit in then you are a horrible person who should be treated with no respect.

that is the main message this honorable sailor has to offer.

~ At what point did I say if you don't fit in you are a horrible person, there are varying degrees of sailors, some great, who strive to be advanced, and know that this is what they want to do for the rest of their lives, I count myself among those, then there are sailors who are average, who bitch somedays, and laugh others, no problem with them either. Of course you also have the problem children, I spend 95% of each day dealing with these sailors, trying to make them buck up, instead of bucking the system. With some, I have been succesful, with some I have failed. Whether they re-enlist, or decide to move on to another job, if they are prepared at the end of their time, and get an HONORABLE discharge, I consider it a success. If, like the young man I just sent to the brig, they get out with a OTH, I have failed.

With drugs, only one person has failed, the person who used. Your depression, your "destroyed" evals, your chain-of-command, none of that overshadows the fact that you broke the holiest of all military rules, so you failed.

I have a question for you, if the Navy is filled with so many dumbasses, and you can't even fit in and be an average sailor....what's that make you?

LDO

Oh by the way....

"Grammar is the logic of speech, even as logic is the grammar of reason." ~Richard C. Trench

Active Duty Navy on March 18, 2005 11:21 PM

>At what point did I say if you don't fit in you are a horrible person, there are varying degrees of sailors, some great, who strive to be advanced, and know that this is what they want to do for the rest of their lives, I count myself among those, then there are sailors who are average, who bitch somedays, and laugh others, no problem with them either.

have you ever imposed punitive action on anyone? let me guess. those people are children ;)

>Of course you also have the problem children, I spend 95% of each day dealing with these sailors, trying to make them buck up, instead of bucking the system. With some, I have been succesful, with some I have failed.

so if you do not like a person, or they do not fit in well with you or the navy, then they are a child.

what a paternal worldview, eh. thanks dad...

>Whether they re-enlist, or decide to move on to another job, if they are prepared at the end of their time, and get an HONORABLE discharge, I consider it a success.

and that is a fundamental flaw in your logic. I KNOW in my time I did far more work than most did in the same amount of time. Even though I did not like the system or my job I did the best I could until I felt broke.

At which point I asked for help. Got told to go fuck myself. And then I got in trouble for drugs.

I would like to mention a great quote from the last reply that was not made by you or I.

"military may protect and serve the country, but they leave their own out in the cold... and piss on them"

>If, like the young man I just sent to the brig, they get out with a OTH, I have failed.

so you are a failure then? I still think you can do good. at least you care enough to read feedback sailors leave. most people do not do that.

>With drugs, only one person has failed, the person who used. Your depression, your "destroyed" evals, your chain-of-command, none of that overshadows the fact that you broke the holiest of all military rules, so you failed.

and that is fine. within that system, sure "I failed". outside of that system "I succeeded".

>I have a question for you, if the Navy is filled with so many dumbasses, and you can't even fit in and be an average sailor....what's that make you?

smart.

look at my ASVAB and nuclear test scores. 99 & 76.

99 is the top score on the ASVAB test. 76 out of 80 was the highest score the people who gave me the nuclear test had ever seen at that point in time.

~ other than honorable sailor

On the contrary, none of the sailors I work with are children, which is why I hold each one of them accountable for their own actions, because they are adults, and deserve to be treated as such. If a sailor with a poor record is transferred to my division, he or she has a clean slate, until they start operating outside of the boundaries set up by our microcasmical society. Sleep during watch, get a DUI, beat up another sailor, and you force me to take action. On the other hand, do your job the best you can, get qualified senior watches, learn how your equipment works and you force me to take action also, to work to get you advanced, get you awards, get you the orders you want, or just get you more time off with your family.

You try to pigeon-hole anyone who opposes you on this site as "typical" or "childish" or "power-mongering." Well that's not how the military works, and I think it is important that the people who come to this site hear both sides of the coin. Most of them don't want your life, if they did you wouldn't have a feedback page full of people that had made a mistake, gotten a OTH, but still wanted to know how they could get back into the service.

Your scores are impressive, I also scored 99 on the ASVAB, it's not a difficult test, I never took the Nuke test, I knew it wasn't the field I wanted. Obviously you are very well-learned, but know that there is a difference between that, and intelligence.

Buck up, stop whining, and move on.

Active Duty Navy

Active Duty Navy on March 19, 2005 11:46 AM

"You try to pigeon-hole anyone who opposes you on this site as "typical" or "childish" or "power-mongering." Well that's not how the military works,"

i spit out my coffee laughing too hard at this

military is a well controlled organization. they can't afford anyone to fuck around, understandable. but it's obvious that blanket treatment or blanket control, in the military DOESNT WORK. the military is so focused on cleaning up and moving out, or even better, HIDING, anything that gives the slightest perception of being a bad blemish. they'd rather get rid of it than fix it
how long did it take for things like tailgate to come to light? abu grahib?
why is divorce rate so high in the military? what about post traumatic stress syndrome for marines who have just come back from seeing kids being blown up in iraq? what about all the alcoholics in the navy?
why won't the military take ANY PROACTIVE STEPS IN SAVING THEIR PEOPLE THAN SAVING THEIR OWN ASSES??

"Buck up, stop whining, and move on."
i'd like to hear you say that to a parent who's grieving because their child took their life because they couldn't "HACK" the military.
no doubt, people must be accountable for themselves, but the military must be accountable for THEIR PEOPLE.
the military is a machine, move out the old and expensive and bring in the 17/18 year old recruit. chew em up and spit em out.
i was with my husband since he was 16, the man that the military has turned him into, is not the same man i remember.
believe me, he can hack it, he's a great person, he works hard, never been in trouble, never even been counseled.
HE REENLISTED BECAUSE HE WAS SO GRATEFUL FOR THE TREATMENT THEY GAVE OUR SON. WHY DID THE NAVY DUMP HIM OUT???
we've sacrificed so much, and we appreciated what the navy provided to us regardless of the stresses that it created.
there certainly are some people who don't belong in the military. my husband was one of them, but he never fucked around or slacked off because of it. he didn't like it but he knew he was in it. and he knew he was in it for a good reason.

do you know what his co said to him about our son???
PITY IS A SIN

yet, my husband never asked for fucking PITY because of our son's cancer. all he asked was that SOMEONE LOOK AT THE SITUATION BEFORE THEY MADE A BRASH DECISION AND KICKED OUT SOMEONE WHO IS INNOCENT!!

they did no such thing

i'll invite his sep board to my son's funeral, god forbid that happens.
maybe then they might get it

>On the contrary, none of the sailors I work with are children, which is why I hold each one of them accountable for their own actions, because they are adults, and deserve to be treated as such.

This approach is contrary to most of the leadership my friends and I saw in the navy.

>If a sailor with a poor record is transferred to my division, he or she has a clean slate, until they start operating outside of the boundaries set up by our microcasmical society.

It really is a shitty deal to be black listed. People who I saw shipped off to our boat generally never had a clean slate.

>Sleep during watch, get a DUI, beat up another sailor, and you force me to take action.

Sleeping on watch is an art form. ;)

>On the other hand, do your job the best you can, get qualified senior watches, learn how your equipment works and you force me to take action also, to work to get you advanced, get you awards, get you the orders you want, or just get you more time off with your family.

Typically I worked more hours than the LPO of our division did. Additionally I ran the division sometimes when I was 21 years old. When September 11th happened I was the person running our division.

>You try to pigeon-hole anyone who opposes you on this site as "typical" or "childish" or "power-mongering." Well that's not how the military works, and I think it is important that the people who come to this site hear both sides of the coin.

And contrasting views are a good thing. So you should respect that I have one. No?

>Most of them don't want your life, if they did you wouldn't have a feedback page full of people that had made a mistake, gotten a OTH, but still wanted to know how they could get back into the service.

Some people love the military and make a mistake. Mistakes are not perminant. That is the point of this page. Remember that clean slate concept?

I am not saying other people want to be me or should be me...simply that I am more successful getting kicked out of the military than I would have been if I did not.

I wish it would have happened much sooner.

>Your scores are impressive, I also scored 99 on the ASVAB, it's not a difficult test, I never took the Nuke test, I knew it wasn't the field I wanted. Obviously you are very well-learned, but know that there is a difference between that, and intelligence.

Intelligence is making this page rank well in the most advanced information retrieval systems the world has to offer. You found my opinion. Odds are that unless you posted on MY SITE that I would have never found yours...or at least not from you.

Freedom of expression is a beautiful thing.

>Buck up, stop whining, and move on.

Isn't that the point of this thread? That there is lfe after the military. What they say about you really does not matter that much when you get into the real world.

And I think I can evaluate that statement better than most in the military since I have made the transition. And did it well.

I was discharged from the navy after two days of basic training. I understand, and see where they're coming from, but the tattoo I have is about 2inches wide and 2 inches in height, which is located on my left arm. The tattoo represents chaos and absence without government. Yes, I was a big dummy for saying that. It's an A with a circle in the background symbolize Anarchy. I got it when I was 18 or 19, which was 5yrs ago. I want to change my discharge status from a RE4 to RE3.

i was in teh marines and got an oth for popping on a piss test for coke, i was 7 nanograms over the detected level, i was pissed but whatever. people i spoke to who were in teh brig had failed for 900 nanograms and 2000 naograms over, and that was their 2nd or third offense, and here i am with 107 nanograms over and they booted me out.
well, i was sent home in april 04, and got a job within a week. they asked about military and said i got a medical discharge. i have 2 different dd14's. one states a discharge type and one dosent, the otehr 2 marines who got booted with me also had that same dd214, hopefulyl everyone will get one, so jsut incase a job does do a backround check, nobody will knw why, and you can tell them it was a medical discharge or something like that.. either way this job never even asked about seeing a form or anything and i got the job within a few days and im still working there today . the marine corps was great, but the people in it suck.

Hey. I went UA while in ITB'SOI in order to be discharged. It has been around 3 month already and I heard something about 180days automatic discharge. And if I go back now would they still consider to keep in for the contract? Can some one give more details on it?


Ace,
From all I've read about the military, after 30 days you are considered a deserter and are removed from their rolls. They basically consider you discharged except when you do finally go back then they officially discharge you. Of course, the punishment you get could be a joke or could be bad. Hard to say. Everybody gets a different outcome. Part of the reason the military sucks. There's no consistency in the discharges and punishments. My suggestion, turn yourself in now. I can't imagine they'd even try to keep you in after 3 months of UA. They'll probably consider you what they considered me, "demonstrated unrealibility", and send you packing. Good luck.

Wanting to get out!!! If I just tell them I'm gay will they let me go with an honorable discharge??

i am a nuke in the navy and have just recently popped positive with 26 nanograms of thc in my system. i thought that the limit was 50? is there anything else that can cause a positive thc result (i.e. aspirin, tylenol, etc.)?
i was told today that i will be going to mast in a week or so. do you have any advice? will they pay me to move my family back to maryland from california? will they make me pay back my re-enlistment bonus? i am also currently on limdu because i tore my acl and meniscus. will this affect the V.A.'s decision on giving me disability when i do get out? can i get a job at a nuclear power plant with a drug discharge? do you know anyone that i can conatact to get additional information.

I was discharged for unathorized BAH. I told the core i was taking part custody of my girlfriends child in order to get partial BAH. Later she got pissed and reported me to my pussy ass SSGT. Of course he pursude it. Later I was court martialed and givin a BCD. I admit I was wrong but I felt the Corps could have handled things a better way than they did. I was on my second enlistment first time offender. Since then I've had a few jobs but I'm still striving to get a Law Enforcement job. Thats what I always wanted to do. Just made a bad freakin decesion. Can anyone shed any light on this? I've tried being honest on the application but that shit has been against me rather than for me. Can anyone shed any light on this situation? What the hell should I do?

I was discharged for unathorized BAH. I told the core i was taking part custody of my girlfriends child in order to get partial BAH. Later she got pissed and reported me to my pussy ass SSGT. Of course he pursude it. Later I was court martialed and givin a BCD. I admit I was wrong but I felt the Corps could have handled things a better way than they did. I was on my second enlistment first time offender. Since then I've had a few jobs but I'm still striving to get a Law Enforcement job. Thats what I always wanted to do. Just made a bad freakin decesion. Can anyone shed any light on this? I've tried being honest on the application but that shit has been against me rather than for me. Can anyone shed any light on this situation? What the hell should I do?

as far as being ua, when I was in MCAS beaufort working at the checking, one day this guy came in and he had been UA for 2 years, and decided that he wanted to close that chapter in his life, turned himself in.. they did nothing to him but give him an other than honorable discharge, I am not say that will be the same outcome for you, but chances of them throwing you in the brig really belongs to the CO of the unit that you are in.. if he is a hard ass, then he will through the book at you, if not just count the loses and let you go.. and as far as the one who was asking if he would say he is gay if they would let you out.. the best thing to do, is just like any jail sentence ride it out.. otherwise you will be in here posting "what can I do" know what I mean?

I've been out of the NAV for 22 years. I actually enjoyed the Navy and had good evals and got along well with everyone on board ship. I received an OTH discharge for smoking dope. I violated the rules and they kicked me out. I'm still the same person no matter what discharge I received. Getting an honorable doesn't change your personality for the better. War experience changes a persons personality. I've had the same job for 22 years, got a college degree and raised a family during that time. Aaron's right-the secret is don't let anyone know what type of discharge you have. It isn't none of their business anyway. So you can't work for the federal, state or local governments. Most of us don't. The navy doesn't seem to know what type of discharge it is anyway. Ask anyone in military admin. and they will tell you it is not a DISHONORABLE discharge. An OTH does not bar you from most private sector jobs, unless you want to be in a high profile occupation like a CEO or politician or something of that nature, and background checks normally are limited to civilian misconduct. Either fight it or forget it, so I decided to forget it and that has worked out well for me.

My daughter was just recently discharged from the Navy Seabees for UCMJ violations as a RE4 Entry level seperation. How will this effect her as far as rejoining another branch if she chose's to?

Well I've found out that she wont be eligible for any other branch of services. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can help her thru this?

>Anyone have any suggestions on how I can help her thru this?

the military is an exceptionally small portion of the workforce. other jobs do exist.

i recieved an OTH from the Corps in 1999 after i CONFESSED to smoking weed.....its the worst mistake i've ever made. I tried to get back in but the recruiter said no dice. i'm in a different situation than most of you becasue i want back in. does anyone know what i can do to acomplish this?
thanks, nick

My C-O has recently reccommended me for and other than honorable under chapter 13. I was sent the paperwork in the mail about two months ago. I have been talking with this appointed lawyer, he's telling me that i can get a conitional transfer to another unit, so i can finish my time and get an honorable?:@ I'm not sure if he blowing smoke up my ass telling me what i want to hear or if he's really trying to help me out. I still have time to waive my right to be seen by a seperation board and request a general. If anyone has advise please e-mail me. sboffoli@verizon.net.

As for me, i was discharged in 1992 for popping positve on a command sweep piss test, bad thing was they didnt catch me they caught two other guys i had smoked with so they narced on me and 8 other guys to get there self out of trouble, this was right after desert storm and right after i came back from jeddah, i received none of my medals, no va loan or bennies, did not get my g.i bill which i already paid for, and was resricted 45 days, half months pay times two, and extra duty, then was transfered to tpu and was told id never work for the military or a military contractor again,now keep this in mind when u get a oth, you get a re-4, when u get an re-4 u are not available to enlist in any branch of the service at all. the only way as far as i know to get back in is to upgrade your discharge, and to do that you have to get the forms, and its a long drawn out process, u dont need a lawyer, stay out of trouble do community service get letters from people who know your character (priest, boss, so on...)and go thourgh the process, va reps will sometimes either help u or guide u thourgh those steps, as for me i was welding u.s. navy ships together about 1 year after i was discharged i did not lie at my interview i came straight out with the six people i was sitting before and they hired me, looked i already screwed up, but i dont want the feeling of being a liar to make it any worse....as for getting it upgraded at this point maybe maybe not..


p.s if u made it thourgh at least one year in any branch be proud of that, u did your duty and thats more then alot of people can say, take it eazy...

Fellow OTH'ers---
Take charge of your life and follow your dreams. The military is not fit for everyone. You can get all the money you need for college w/out the GI bill. Just fill aout the FASFA form at your local college. I get grants and stafford loans. Actually I'm not even working at the moment. I have one year left until I have a Bachelors in Business with a concentration in Accounting. Yes, thats right! I have an OTH, but I will still make a great living as a CPA (certified public accountant). Don't let anyone tell you that you are not good enough to go out and get what you want. I had problems in the Marines, and after a few years of reflecting on the experience I feel the problem was me not them. I am just to damn ambitious. I cannot handle being under such strict control. Now I control my own destiny and every aspect of my life. I've never been happier.
I refuse to believe I am a bad person because of an OTH. I have a 3.5 GPA, what does that say? I will not let a piece of paper from an organiazation that wasn't right for me in the first place huant me for life. Take charge of your life people, you are the CO now!!!!

I could answer alot of q's for you folks here as I am actice duty awaiting seperation. Doing alot of research on this because I have over 19 years in and there want to send me home.....now.
My Q to aaron is how did you get set up working for yourself? Very interested in being my own boss!
D

>My Q to aaron is how did you get set up working for yourself?

became an internet marketer. learned to manipulate search relevancy algorithms. it is how you found this page.

I got an RE4 from Bootcamp because I told them I took Zoloft and I thought people were poising my food. I never took Zoloft and never had any of those thoughts. I just didn't like what I was going through. Is there any way to change my discharge, could I tell them how I lied about everything? I want to re-enlist. Let me know. ladaca2003@aol.com

anyone intersted in going back into the military, listen to what I am about to tell you, for I am living proof, I got out with a re3p, "medical" I have been trying to get back in the Marines, but noooo.. its like I am no longer good enough, but I recently went to an army recruiter and Now I am currently going back in, WITH a reenlistment bonus, I will lose 1 rank, but hey with enough time in service its a matter of time before I become a sgt once again.. so for anyone trying to get back in... give the army a chance.. besides you still get bragging rights for being a bad ass former Marine.. uuuhh raaah.

I'M GOING TO MEET WITH A LAWYER TO SEE WHAT I CAN DO TO GET BACK IN THE CORPS...WISH ME LUCK. I REALIZE THIS MIGHT BE A LOSING BATTLE BUT I HAVE TO TRY.

Well damn......Here I sit 3 years after i got my OTH for drugs and I find this web sit one night while Im freakin borred. Wow you guys make me feel good Im not the only freakin idiot who made a mistake and misses the service and wants back in.......But lets be carefull to we miss the good times and the friends we had? Becase remember if you do find a way back in it will be new people a new command and a dirty ass war! Keep your chins up you live you die you move on.....There are alot of posers still in the marines that got to be called " war heros" because they were missing the day of the piss test yet they were hitting bong loads with me every other weekend. I was a good marine i loved my job just partied too hard on weekends......Any ways if any of you people find a way to get back in with a RE4 hit me up at nick_h1999@hotmail.com. And dont let people like this active navy dude bring you down he was prolly just one of the officers who sat behind the desk while the grunts went humping giving orders through his chain of command you remember that guy old capt. whathisface.....take it easy gents untill next time

Unlike all of you I hadn't had much of a military experiance. I enlisted in the Marine Corps when I was 18. Everything was going fine and I was just a normal recruit until I started writing back and forth to my exgirlfriend of three years at the time. In those letters we went back and forth about wanting to get back together and getting married and starting a family. I don't know what the fuck happened and I freaked. She was still in High School so I decided (very stupidly) to quit. I told them i was depressed and suicidal, then when that got me in trouble I said I was gay. They must of known I was full of shit but they let me go and gave me an Entry Level Discharge. I have regreted that deciscion for four years. I want nothing more to get back in. This sense of failure is unbearable. Do they allow second chances of have I fucked myself for good?

Hey out there i have been in the USN for about 1 year 3 months im looking to try and get out legally i found a web page made by a 12 year veteran and he put in there that there are legal ways of getting out EX.
Heartship
COllage(this is the one im looking into)

things like that i want to know if anyone can give me any information on how to get out. i want to go to collage and get my criminal justace degree or something in the feild of this? but please tell me how true this is. i was told they will work with you and will let you go plus i dont feel that i can do work for the navy anymore i dont have the ability to do what i came in for my mind stuck on school and not getting along with any of my shipmates in my division isnts working i have a feeling that i might cause problems if something isnt taken care of. THANKS FOR YOUR HEL GUYS I AM VERY APPRICIATIVE OF THIS. SIGN HT3 USN

this comment is for plusto, listen once the Marine discharge you its hard to get back in.. not impossible.. its just that you have to do all the calling, all the paper work, and all the walking.. recruiters dont like to spend time with you, only because they have to do alot of paperwork for wavers. Now like I have said before, you can always join the army, trust me on this they are in desperate need for people, that could be one of your choices.. That is what I am doing. dont know if that helps, but where theres a will theres a way.

Thanks Dan, I will keep that in mind. I am going to try to make things happen. I am hoping to be getting "ITed" very soon.

I was UA for 32 day i got cought inbetewwen the crack during this thing called "school of ship" i was given a lofal order by a second class petty officer to go around picking up trash. As unbelivable as it sound it happened for 32 days well the weekends i had off or at least i thought i did. any way instead of my CO giving me an OTH like he wanted he gave me 45/45 reduction in rate 2months half pay. But the funny thing is it did sound kinda fishy that we were cleaning for 32 days (by the way in the time of war thats concidered desertion right?) well what he did was then suspend my reduction in rate which im still an FN and i was supposed to be FA he suspended 400 dollars of my pay (instead of me paying 800 every half of a month it would now be 400) he suspended 10 days of my 45/45 ... but only on my restiction time and left me with 45 extra duty. i kinjda think if anything it should of been court marshial but it wasnt. Well now that i think of it all this was so fucked up adn i should of took him up on his oth offer and now i feel like shit for not doing it. Ever since bootcamp i have cried my self to sleep not knowing abouit that 180 day seperation crap. i feel like im going to hurt my self or someone eles around my shop i just feel like my life is going down the drain and i should of never signed up i thought of taking my new dodge truck and just rammin into a pole and ending my finacial problems along with other things.
Im fighting to keep my head above water finacially and had a second job to keep me above my payments (by the way im in dry dock) i was put on restiction and kinda lost the job oppertunity for now (i was told after restriction to come back hell hold my position) and i feel that i can do better finacially on the real world and i wont feel like beating someones head in and wont feel like just ending all this shit the navy has put me through. I think about this everynight i have people behind me saying find a way out bring your self back to life get a job on the outside world if ya have to get to to pay off your bill then go to school you have time. someone help me befor i make a decision that im going to regret for the rest of my life and make a lot of people upset if i do go through with my thought. THANK YOU GUYS

chase,
think about it real hard before you do something crazy. think about how its going to affect your life after the fact, think about how you're going to feel about your self, think about how its going to affect your family and friends. believe me man its never as bad as it seems, just keep pushing through and everything will work itself out. go talk to a base(or ship?) counselor they can give you tools to work through your problems. i've been through similar situations and it always works itself out with a little discipline and intestinal fortitude(guts). nothing is worth sacrificing your honor and self respect.......i know, i'm fighting with it now. keep your head up, walk tall and remember FIDO (Fuck It, Drive On)

My husband was arrested and is now in jail for 3 yr.He has been in for over a year and still no word from the military in what they are going to do with him?He is not in a military jail.Are they going to wait till he gets back to kick him out or will they make him serve the rest of his time that he has left for the army when he gets out of jail?

I have been fighting the navy for a wrongfull discharge for over 21 yrs...i am and was not guilty,that OTHD has caused me to loose everything...but as a 3.9 sailor.was in my second term,GOOD CONDUCT AWARD along with many qual,s that i did....i am not about to give up...next step is federal court,if i can find a attorney.so i feel for all you men...don,t give up..keep fighting my brothers

Steven D. Saltton on April 14, 2005 4:03 PM

To me each of us is just a number to the government. It is pointless to fight them directly.

As you make money they get your taxes. As you waste effort fighting directly you make less money. Without money there is no democracy in this country. Sad but true.

If you want to have an effect dont go to improve your record (wasted time and effort). Make a page like this or a web site or somehow market what you think of them.

They attack your credibility? Give them a bit of their own medicine.

If enough people see how shitty and hypocritical the systems are they need to spend more to try to promote them and then eventually they have to make the systems less fucked up (reform).

In general, do not carry your discharge with you other than expressing your discontent on a web page or the like. And then move on. As you do well you can pour resources into reformatting that system instead of just trying to worry about your own discharge status.

Its a matter of self respect really. Hence why this page exists. And why most my effort is elsewhere.

Consider the military what it is: A toy. A joke.
And move on.

Consider the military what it is: A toy. A joke.
And move on......are you crazy!..i can,t believe you wrote this....it may be a JOKE TO YOU..but i loved the NAVY and the military way of life...its people like you that make this world like it is...i would,nt waste the 45cents it would take to put a bullet in your head.there are still some of us out there that really would give our life,s for the protection of our brothers and their family,s....and i am one of them.

Steven slatton
"A VETERAN"

Steven Slatton on April 15, 2005 2:34 PM

Hey guys i have been diagnosied with depression and im in the military i dont know if its going to go away anytime soon to much on my mind *you know* but will they kick me out if i dont get any better. If i cant keep my attenchion to long and start to daze back off to my problems> I think pretty soon its going to get worst and im just going to end up not caring. Should i continue with counseling or just i dont know what to do what if counseling dont help me and after like 2 months im still down in the dumps are they going to get thrown out. I was told they do , do that and give you a general (medical discharge) how true is this. I havent even got the sleep that one persons supposed to get b/c of this like last night i only got 2 hrs i went to bed at 4 and got up at 6 for the new day i cant keep doing this. :*(
Thankl you who ever answers my post
Very Tired

>its people like you that make this world like it is...

what, occasionally honest?

>i would,nt waste the 45cents it would take to put a bullet in your head.

wow. that is a real act of generosity. if you did kill me the government would lose out on lots of tax dollars. it would be a rather selfish move for you to shoot somebody.

>there are still some of us out there that really would give our life,s for the protection of our brothers and their family,s....and i am one of them.

the real question is "Does bombing little children in Iraq make our country any safer?"

I am living with an OTH discharge that I recieved in February 2004 from the US Navy. I found a good job right when I returned home and I have never really thought about my discharge since then. But just recently I was laid off from work and now I am seeing the effects of my discharge in my search for a good job. Does anyone know the best way to go about an appeal?

Paul Jewett on April 15, 2005 5:30 PM

Erik has an awesome point. Everyone should read his story. His article is 18 up from the bottom. Every person can take cahrge of their own lives. I have many friends that we're marines and have OTH's but still are managing high end jobs. (I) also got and OTH and am getting out soon. Just awaiting separation from reserve status. But thats not gonna be the end of my career because i still have school to look forward to and a job that i will never tell about my OTH..Not many jobs find out about your OTH, but just that you were once a marine..

Well shit, talked to the Marine recruiter today. He told me that it looks like I am going to be disqualified from joining Marine Corps, and ANY military for that matter! I mean what the fuck! I am kind of thinking they haven't really looked into it that far. My girlfriend just got out of the Navy and said there is no way that they could have my service record yet. I am thinking they just don't want to have to deal with me. Anybody have any input?

Come on guys, the military is just using us. As many say: "the friends and the good times" that's not going to be there when/if you get back in. Just move on and start over. They still have me on limbo about my discharge. What am I going to do...? Keep saving some money for the future and get my stuff ready for discharge when that day comes.
Don't be thinking that if you go back in, that it will be the same. Things change.

Great site Aaron.

Life After OTH? Yes!

Popped on Meth 1995. OTH'd from Navy. I got a job offer while at TPU as a Telecom Engineer. Woot! Pay raise. Started at new job one week after Sep from Navy.

Engineered and designed a large segment of the fiber optic network this country uses for telephony/internet traffic from 1995-2001.

Engineered, designed and managed the construction of the communication system for one of the largest mass transit systems in the country. Still working at this position on the next expansion.

Note: No one has ever asked about my discharge or asked to see my DD-214. Only problem ever encountered has been trying to get a VA Loan for a new house. Will probably end up going conventional anyways. No problem there.

Info for people currently in the Navy: Watch out who you hang out with. NCIS put a guy in our division long term. He ended up setting up 6 people from our division. Like Aaron, this all turned out good for me (didn't think so at the time though).

Just found out through the thread and additional reading that according to the Nav Per Manual 1910 that I should have been seperated no later than 15 days after Mast. Wow! They kept me in lingo for 5 months. Had to get family involved to get me released from TPU to get to new job in time.

Keep it real Aaron. You are providing a good service! :)

looks like I stumbled into a big ole pile of shit. How can you guys even think you were wronged by on OTHD when you were doing dope.
If it were to me, 1st time offenders get the boot with a BCD.
Only reason why im here is because ive been offered 120k job, looking to see to get out of contract. I have no pity for you.

>120K
>If it were to me, 1st time offenders get the boot with a BCD.

greedy, selfish, and judgemental. bet your parents are proud.

Hey i was in the marine corp. and my mother passed away shit kinda messed me up i smoked popped pos on piss test and was discharged with an OTH for misconduct on my dd-214 and a re-entry code of re-4b seperation code hkk1...i was seperated march 8th 2004 but under remarks on my dd-214 it states good conduct medal period commences 01 13 2004 and i'm curious as to the meaning of the remark...i am looking for an upgrade on discharge and possible re-entry in the marine corp...i was an e-3 and was demoted to e-1 upon separation....if anyone could give me any information about how i would go about applying for an upgrade and the best ways to do it i would appreciate it....could i possibly have that upgraded do to hardship or anything of that nature.....any information would be helpful...thanks

FTN!!!!! Dumb idiot officers who never did anything in their life wrong or drank and rive or smoke some shit!! Yeah right!! It's the Officers who make all the major choices to kick you out with whatever!! Find one in your neighborhood and fuck'em up!! I did! and will again!!

Questions: How difficult (or easy) has it been for you (and by this I mean the entire thread community) to find a job? Did you have to lie in order to get it? Have you had trouble getting any sort of loans (car, house, consumer)? Have you had any luck in finding government employment (local, state, federal)? Has anyone been accepted to a police force with an OTH? WHat are some of the horror stories? What are some of the success stories?

I would have to say that Aaron wall is one of the most unique people that i have ever met, and i stand by my claim about the box of jello.

Peter Olson on April 21, 2005 3:44 PM

The summer of 2004 I received an OTH discharge for the U.S. Army. I know that the Army is not for everyone. I was stupid and I chose to be an Airborne Infantry Paratrooper. Talk about a hard Army experience. From the first day that I arrived at my unit I had problems with E-4ís telling me an E-3 what to do. In addition, I could not stand the fact that I had to stand a Parade Rest for E-4ís (Specialists). I canít even remember how many times the E-4ís preformed corrective training on me. Sometimes the E-4ís would make me do exercises till I would pass out. They always made sure to hydrate me with an I.V., and once the needle came out, it was back to more exercises. Life was hell for me. So our Unit gets the call to become part of Operation Freedom IV. My unit and I deploy. Now why they allowed me to deploy after all the issues I had, I will never know. Wile I was deployed I got to do some really cool things, and the E-4ís were being a lot nicer to me; probably because I now had a loaded M4. Then one night I was pulling PUC (Person Under States Control) guard. By the way a PUC has no rights under Geneva Convention. The PUC is the militaryís dark little secret, but back to what happened. I was guarding this PUC. He was in very sad shape, he had been all shot up. The E-4 that was guarding the PUC with me gave the PUC a cigarette. I kind of felt bad for the PUC, knowing that he was going to be excited. So several hours later the PUC signals to me that he would like a cigarette. Please note that I had been smoking in front of him all night. I gave the PUC a lit cigarette. Well anyway I got caught. I do not know how, but my team leader knew. I kept my mouth shut. I did not tell that the E-4 on the guard shift with me gave him one first.

Now this is when my life becomes a real hell. Things start flying down hill for me. I was put in a different Platoon within my same company. I continue to conduct missions with my new platoon between smoke sessions. Several nights later I was call into my Platoon sergeant SFC Adamsís tent. Prior to entering the tent my M4 was taken from me by my squad leader SSG Elridge. Now I am inside of the tent and SSG Elridge is guarding the only entrance/exit to the tent. Itís just SFC Adams and me in the tent. SFC Adams starts pushing me around. All I can do is try my best to stand a Parade Rest. That evening my platoon sergeant, SFC Adams makes it clear to me, if I go on another mission with his platoon he will see to it that I will not return. Without any question in my mind I knew if I went out on another mission with him I was going to die. The following day our platoon was called up for a mission that would be conducted that evening. Please note I am not a bitch, but I was scared for the first time since I entered Afghanistan. I was called into my commanderís tent. My commander CPT Condrey was holding a piece of paper in his hand. Then CPT Condrey asks me if I would be joining my platoon on the mission that was to be conducted this evening. I didnít know what to say. By the way SFC Adams is also in the tent. I look around the room and SFC Adams is staring at me almost like he is looking through me. Finally after several minutes I caved, and told CPT Condrey that I would not join my platoon on the mission this evening. Then CPT Condrey looks at the piece paper in his hand and starts reading it to me. What do you know itís my rights. The son of a bitch had a piece of paper in his hand the whole time with my rights on it.

About a month later I got Court Marshaled inside of the dining facility tent without a lawyer. Please note it was only a Summary Court Marshal, so the Army is not required to provide me with a lawyer. I donít know but any Court Marshal in a tent on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan seems a little bit shady to me. Anyway they hit me with about 12 charges. I beat about half of them. In the end I got the maximum sentence of a Summary Court Marshal. Lose of all rank wow I went from private (PFC/E-3), to private (PV1/E-1), I lost 2/3 of one monthís pay, and I got 30 days confinement. For me it was a real treat to leave Afganiagistan and go to Manheim Military Prison in Germany. I remember one of the questions they ask me on the evaluation when I got to the Prison was how do you feel about being confined here. I looked up at the Sergeant and told him I was happy to be here. No more bullets firing at me, no more nightly rocket attacks, and best of all I get three hot meals a day. I did my time, and I was sent back to my stationed base. Several months later I was chaptered out of the Army with an OTH discharge. Thankfully I was discharged prior to my unitís return. I really would like to get my discharge upgraded. I think maybe if I write a book in vivid detail maybe I can get some political support. I think a good name for the book will be Inside Conclusions Lead to Political Resolutions. I wrote this because knowledge is the key and the more people know the better.

Anti-political Agenda on April 21, 2005 4:17 PM

All of you out there; please tell me what you think about the 2 and Ĺ years I had to endure in the Army.

Anti-political Agenda on April 21, 2005 10:02 PM

>please tell me what you think about the 2 and Ĺ years I had to endure in the Army.

well it sounds shitty. you could let that hold you back or use that as motivation to do whatever you like.

I think that the people who are in the military that post some of these things telling people they need to know how to spell are the dumb asses. Because most people in the military can't make it in the civilian world because they're just too dumb to go to college or get a real job out in the civilian world.

Greenhornet on April 23, 2005 9:31 PM

Well I was wondering if an Other than Honorable discharge from the Navy is such a bad thing. I'm in the Navy right now and am an Undesignated Airman who hates V-3 and the Navy for that matter. Well first of all I have 2 dependent's and another child on the way. And it is hard on me too stay in because, I don't want to go out to sea and leave my wife and kids behind because, I am a family man and I just can't leave my wife to take care of our kids by herself. It just ain't right. And also the navy is paying me as an E-3 and that don't support someone who will be having 3 dependent's and also the way our economy is doing right now I don't think I can afford to stay in. I heard something about a Hardship Discharge but I don't know much about that. Also I heard if I have 3 Dependents in the Navy as an E-3 I have to have a waiver in order to stay in the Navy is that true. And does anyone know if I have to sign that waiver because if I do I'm not going to because I want out of the Navy to help my family in Need. If anyone can give me any advice please email me at: justin22andjulie20@gmail.com


Thanks

To everyone out there their is definitely life after the military just have to apply yourself and be determined. Nothing can stop a determined individual you can bank on that. For me being kicked out the Marines was a stepping stone. Don't let them see you sweat thats what they want. "If u get kicked out your screwed for life" is what they say. They're screwed because they don't know nothing else in life. Live is what I'm saying its a once in a life time offer?

Hey everyone out there. Im just writing on here to get some info I'm currently in the marine corps working on my three year mark right now as a pfc because I was recently NJP'd. For a security violation in the armory where I was trying to do the right thing and help the unit out. It is true that I shouldnt have done what i did but i also did not recieve any on the job training i should of. Well here i am a pfc again with a wife and 16 month old daughter making shit money. I am trying to be positive on this whole situation but enough is enough I want out. I already have a school lined up I want to attend and have been accepted to. Its UTI one of the best auto technician schools in the country. Now I had Asthma before I joined the Marine Corps but they know nothing of that and as far as i know its not documented in my civilian medical records. Im think about going in there and telling them i think i have asthma and get a medical discharge. Well i still keep my GI benefits or no. I have been to iraq and all already and all i want is a medical discharge and my college money. Let me know how this all works asap i want to get this on the ball. Thank you so much everyone for all of those posts above I really know now that I am not the only one that thinks the Corps is filled with lies. They say they take care of family all they do is fuck you and your family over. Semper Fidelis is the biggest lie of all. Help me be a civilian again!!!!

So here I am on the verge of a chapter under 14-12 (misconduct) and I can only hope that the conditional waiver is approved. All I want is a General Discharge and to be out of the service as quickly as possible. My segue into the civilian sector is the only thing that keeps me sane at this point. I am a special forces soldier and am facing administrative discharge at a time when the Army is missing its recruiting goal by more than 35%. I hardly think it is cost effective for the military to expunge highly trained individuals at a point when forces are, at best, spread thin across the world fighting a truly multi-front war. I currently possess four Military Occupational Specialties and have been to countless service schools but zero tolerance is the order of the day so out I go! WISH ME LUCK !!! Later, "Civilian Soon"

Civilian soon!!! on April 27, 2005 8:13 AM

Civilian Soon and Nick good luck and God bless.

Peace be with you

An OTH discharge will only effect you if you want some kind of benefit from the government or military, or if you are trying to use that fact that you were in the military as proof of experience for a particular job. Other than that An OTH means nothing when it comes to getting a job or having a career. I got an OTH in 1991 when my stupid first wife took off with my kids and I took off to find them, I had just gotten off of leave and had no more accrued leave to take. I told My commanding officer of my situation and he treated me like a number so I left on my own to do what I had to do. I got charged with AWOL and got an OTH. Under the same circumstances I would do it all again, because of course there is more to the story. Anyway I have worked every since at different places in different states and it has never mattered most of them don't ask about military experience and if they do ask, saying that you have an OTH is saying that its not Dishonorable. It fits under the catagory of other. They never check and if they did they cant get details with out going through the proper channels and an employer is not going to go through all of that just to hire you or not. They're just happy that it doesn't say dishonorable. IF they ever ask you why, just say "hardship" regardless of what the military says why--"hardship" is your opinion.

Hey I got kicked out and want back in please help send all info to mreese04@msn.com and I got kicked out for popping on marijuana, I was also meritoriously promoted out of bootcamp and honor grad out of school, with a merit. promo there too. USMC pretty much did this black girl without any vaseline, Semper Fi thats a lie

im in the army enlisted may 2003, since ive been in ive always hated it, i got in trouble in my last unit for going A.W.O.L. in sept 2004, when i got caught i spent 5 days in county jail till the m.p.'s gave them the word to release me...(fell on a donsa so i got fucked) i really hate the army and i have been messing up and not listening to them so i have counselings on disobeying a direct order and failure to report on a couple, also a gave a knife to another soldier so i have a counseling for that also which says they are recommending ucmj, ill do anything to get out of the army- i cant deal with it anymore, they kicked 3 soldiers out not 2 long ago for coccaine use (gen. under honorable conditions) i would love to get out on that, i went to a rave and missed 2 days of p.t. after that i got drug tested under suspicion and did do exstacy 2 days prior to that, i dont really know how them results are going to turn out- for my misconduct im suppose to sign in every hour from 6-11 for 2 weeks - i really cant deal with this b/s im almost willing to accept whatever they throw at me and just give up (going to jail for a few days, whatever..) im just trying to calculate my steps, im getting pissed because they all know i want out of the army so there making it very hard now.. its rediculous there was another guy in my unit that told everyone to fuck off and stopped listining and just got out on a general in like 2 weeks he was gone!! i am so upset i never disrespect anyone and somehow the army refuses to let me go, i hate it so much - but i am a good person so of coarse i get screwed, i have a good job lined up for if i get out soon, i just want out, and i dont want to go to jail, it would only be right,.... any advice? questions on my experiences? my unit wont even give me an article 15. -- i hate my life in the army, i just want to be free again... im going to come up with something, gay, drugs, misconduct, just want out@!

oh and also for the awol charge i told them i wanted out so i went awol, but they gave me 14/14/ loss of pay, plus they got there money back from when i was in jail, 5 days in jail, and i was only awol for 5 days, i only did it because my girlfriend left me and i was extremely depressed during which time they tried to send me to a hardcore infantry unit, wouldnt reccomend going awol to anyone, however my friend went awol for over 30 days and got out on gen. discharge, fucked up isnt it? curious wut would happen if i tell them im going to kill myself cuz i cant stand the army life? i dont know.... (((confused)))

> curious wut would happen if i tell them im going to kill myself cuz i cant stand the army life?

if they think you just want out they will try to make your life harder.

there have been instances where commanding officers got fired because they literally drove people to killing themselves.

a perfect example... a kid got in trouble but would not rat out the others. nobody would say who the others were. so they locked the boat down and made that one kid stand watch with a gun topside. he killed himself. the commanding officer looked like a real fucking genius with that scumbag call.

I like how former warfighters like to blame the system for their fuck ups. You are told the day you come in to the military that you cannot do drugs. I am not some innocent cheesedick that thinks reefer is evil, or that party drugs make people criminal. I do know that it does destroy good order and discipline, because if you are not disciplined enough to not do drugs during liberty or leave you are not disciplined enough to be counted on to defend your country. Man-up to you responsibilities. I hope all of you that popped positive on drugs can be upgraded to a General Discharge, because it seems that most of you were young first-termers that were still immature. If you learned anything from the military, it should be to accept resonsibility for your actions. Instead, most of you act like frivilous lawsuit candidates looking for a loophole in the system to get you out of a mess you got yourself in to.

Semper Fi!

>I like how former warfighters like to blame the system for their fuck ups.

I like how former warfighters get fucked with post tramautic stress disorder and then get told that it is their fault.

>You are told the day you come in to the military that you cannot do drugs.

And yet the scumbags in the military drug you. Low oxygen levels, no sunlight, make you huff paint that causes lung and brain damage. Really a bunch of horse crap.

>I am not some innocent cheesedick that thinks reefer is evil, or that party drugs make people criminal.

In the navy I saw alchohol screw over far more people than drugs did.

>I do know that it does destroy good order and discipline, because if you are not disciplined enough to not do drugs during liberty or leave you are not disciplined enough to be counted on to defend your country.

I don't buy that for a minute. What makes the chiefs and officers that were too fucked up DRINKING more discipline than I? The port before I got in trouble, in spite of me being blacked out most of the day, I helped over a half dozen crew members get back to the boat. To me, being able to get back to work and help a half dozen people get back to work in spite of being screwed up shows greater discipline than most.

>most of you act like frivilous lawsuit candidates looking for a loophole in the system to get you out of a mess you got yourself in to.

To me joining the military was a mess. Getting out any way possible was a good deal in the long run for me.

yeah! great site!!.. some questions I have seen repeated.. over and over again with no answers:

1)If I get an OTH will it effect my VA bennies?

It may, but if you received an honorable discharge in a prior enlistment you are entitled to your GI bill.

2)I saw someone that said that they weren't given a VA loan because of an OTH discharge indication on their DD-214..

Even if you receive an OTH discharge you may still be eligible for this loan status. This condition is reviewed on a case by case basis. (remember folks the VA is not the MIlitary)

Now I get to call bullshit on some posts I saw.

I saw a guy that said he was reduced from E3-E1 by his CO...

CO NJP (mast or OH) can only bust you down one paygrade

Some guy got a BCD for fraudulently claiming BHA for someone else...

That sounds like too stiff a punishment for the crime and I question its validity.

I saw some great questions and love the cat fight between Aaron and LDO clown guy

My opinion:

As the forces fail to meet their recruiting goals, look for reentry rules to become more lax.

So a little about myself:

I was an E-5 engineman in the Navy for 6 years. I was a top notch sailor with high evals. I had no prior problems, and by all means was respected by most in my command. I popped for cocaine right after I reenlisted, and was OTH'd by a drb 3-0 vote.

I have had no problem finding work at all, although I was barred from collecting unemployment insurance because of my discharge.

Plenty of people get their discharge upgraded so stay vigilant people. The key is to talk to people that have been successful. There have been plenty of people whose requests have been denied, but then again there have been people who did some horrible shit and got the upgrade. It is all how you represent yourself.

For you people such as "active duty military", you do make clear points that should be recognized, but the way you carry yourself you really give a bad name to those serving our country. Get with the times you clown. The last two presidents admitted to using controlled substances. Bad choices don't make you a dummy, ignorance does.

For those of you that got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, I am one of you, but I admit that I made a bad choice by puting myself in a situation that would produce a positive UA. Don't live in denial, accept the wrong, and do something about it. All the tools are availible.

All in all I felt that the character of my service could hardly be described as "Other than Honorable", but the people making the choices here will ask if a sailor or soldier with no infractions at all deserves the same discharge characterization as a known drug user. That answer is always going to be no.

To all the poeple that never got caught (and my "regular guy" estimate is that over half are doin' bad shit)... if you keep on going it will catch you.

Good luck everyone! This has been a great read.. Shit! gotta go update my spellcheck!

This is for Frank. If you say you are going to kill yourself they are going to make you see shrinks and counsolers. Unless you are actually suicidal you are going to have to put on a very good show, or it will get you into some real shit. Most likley you will be seperated and discharged, but I don't know what kind of discharge that would fall under

>lifesux Please tell me what you thought about my events that took place in the Middle East.

Anti-political Agenda on May 6, 2005 7:22 PM

Frank I am Anti-political Agenda. Look at what my brothers in arms did to me. I wrote it on the web site not too long ago. Be very careful what you wish for. I learned that if you wish for it you might just get it. I do wish the best luck to you. I remember when I would do just about anything to get out of the Army ALIVE. If life and limb are not at stake, please reconsider. All you have to do is play their game. I would have played their game but for me it was play their game and endure friendly fire, or do what I had to do to get out. Please note I really do know how you feel. You currently feel hopeless. As soon as your Company regains you trust it will be back to business as usual. If you really want out with a better discharge, bite the bullet and tell you Commander that you find him attractive, and you would like to go out on a date with him. This should work, but be ready for some serious ridicule and possibly some death threats. Good luck Frank.

Anti-political Agenda on May 6, 2005 7:46 PM

I was informed that I'm being separated the day of my graduation from tech school for air traffic control. The separation is for a "negative pattern of behavior," basically too many times late to formation and failed room inspections. I'm assuming it will be a General discharge. The Air Force refuses to give me my FAA card but I'd like to attend college for ATC and then apply at the FAA. I know they do a background check and their site implies that I'll have to explain a general discharge as well as any "derogatory employment terminations." Am I hosed getting on with the FAA?

HosedAirman on May 6, 2005 8:37 PM

You Guys really sweat this OTH shit too much. Pick yourself up and move on. I got an OTH in 2001 for cocaine. I was a Sergeant in Quality Assurance (Pretty Important Position) with a CH46E helicopter squadron. I was an outstanding Marine on the eve of my reenlistment. I happened to go home with a nice piece of ass on a friday night and happened to do some coke somwhere in the process. One piss test and six months of bullshit later and I was out on my ass with an OTH. Yeah, I felt bad about it for a while. But once I realized that the only true consequences related to my OTH were losing relatively useless government benefits and hurt pride, I began to feel a little better. I'm finishing up two Bachelor degrees at Southern Illinois University paid for by none other than Uncle Sam himself in the form of Pell grants, Map Grants, and a few small student loans. I plan on getting a good job when I graduate. I already have a few options for employment. Id like to thank the Commandant for for saving me from reenlisting by personally shoving my OTH and my two college degrees up his ass. Well, forget the last thing I said.
The point is that an OTH is far from a death sentence. As a matter of fact you should feel liberated. You can still go to college for free without the GI bill. Just contact any financial aid office at any University and they will tell you how. If you dont want to go to college you can still get a job. Just keep the OTH on the hush. Most employers are too fucking lazy and cheap to spend too much time looking into your past. I highly recommend going to college. Not only does graduating present you with a whole new set of oppurtunites, but the pussy and the pot are both absofuckinglutely incredible as well. So pick yourself up exiled Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen, and enjoy being a civilian again. God bless our young men and women risking their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I am perfectly happy knowing that when Im done posting this, Im going to go sit on my back porch and smoke a fat doob. Peace to all of my OTH brothers and sisters, and good luck in your adventures.

A few more things-
1:Its very difficult to get a discharge upgraded if you dont know someone. Not that I dont recomend trying, but dont get your hopes up.

2: It seems like alot of people on this site really want out of the service. I suggest toughing it out if you can. Almost anyone can find their niche in a unit if they really try and give it some time. An OTH isnt that big of a deal but if you don't have to get one, than dont... asshole.
3:Some people genuinely arent cut out for the military, and to you I suggest to forego the lying about being gay, or purposely popping, and to just continue on being a useless non-hacker. My unit discharged two Marines during my stay for being absolutely useless to the Corps i.e. repeatedly failing PFT's, poor personal appearance etc. The reason Im telling you to not lie is because if you get caught lying, youre fucked. Theyll make life worse on you than you could ever imagine. They can also give you a BCD or dishonorable if you go too far trying to get out. We had one dumbass shoot himself in the knee with a twenytwo and claim his gun accidentally went off. No only did he severely fuck himself up, but he got caught lying, special court martialled, sent to the brig, and hes still munching on his Big Chicken Dinner today. If you get a BCD or Dishonorable youre going to have a tough life because because unlike an OTH these show up on civilian background checks as misdemeanors or felonies. I dont know about other branches of the service, but my experience in the Marines taught me that they will do anything to rid themselves of what they consider serious shitbags. We used to have a saying "you cant polish a turd". The advantage of getting out under these circumstances is if you need to get your discharge upgraded in the future its much easier to say they didnt like me because I couldnt pass my PFT, was overweight, looked like shit in uniform, and wasnt good at my job, than to say I did a line of blow or I like a big fat cock in my ass. I know it sounds silly, but the officers that review discharges are pretty much set in their little military jackoff ways. Just some food for thought.
4:I know the military isnt everything its cracked up to be, and in many cases just a big load of shit. But dont let it get the best of you if you dont have to. If it is at all possible suck it up swallow your pride and tough it out, youll thank yourself for it later.
5:Sgt Ski wherever you are- Eat a dick you fucking dogooder. Im so fucking sorry that some of us enjoy having a good time and that might include doing a line of blow or getting stoned every once in a while. You probably get drunk and beat your wife or jerk off to gay magazines at the local smut shop. But go ahead and pass judgement on my fellow OTH'rs and I. Im sure your lifestyle is the epitome of rightousness.

I was in the process of getting a medical discharge for injuries sustained in iraq, after my medical records disapeared (and col. Gonzalez, U.S. army, Medical was the last person to sign them out)(what the hell is the OIC doing sighing out medical records)and the senior nco's going off post to retrive medical info on my injuries(against Privacy act of 1974)The military will use you to the last drop. i broke every record Ft. Stewart ga ever had, won all the boards and was # 1 in all pt test, why the hell was i a PFC for 3 years. I was illigially flagged and it was never removed, one thing left to the other and after all the pills they made me take I ended up with an OTH. One week short of my medical discharge, an investigation was opened. my car was stolen and after a high speed persuit with gun shots the cops finally cought them and they told CID i told them to do it But they never met me. I got insurance fraud charges and the medical was dropped. Fuck Them, All i did for them to get this. I was down for a long time, I now own my own business and i make double what the highest officer on that fucking board makes, and this year i'm shooting for triple. I got out in dec of 03 and im not turning back.

I got caught with defrauding the Gov't by claiming a false BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) My mother needed the money real bad, cuz it was shortly after my father passed away. She was dignosed with Post Traumatic stress disorder, and other pysch. things, as well as amnesia. Her body was feeling her physical affects. I felt it was something I had to do.I have had a perfect record ETT DCTT as a third class. I have had a flawless record, and now with 5.5 years in and 6 months left, this is how they repay me. With an oth and 2 months brig time. I need to know how to get it upgraded to general. I need the college money. when I get out, and can I get a decent job? Somebody help me quick. e-mail me at dragonclaw9921@msn.com

Im a active duty sgt in the corps and the first words i heard today were, top wants to see you in his office. so i go see top and boom! youve popped positive for THC, 6 fricking years ive waisted down the shitter!!! i say to myself. question is how many times do people get BCD's for this, becuase i could live with a OTH, fuck it, i wanted out after this contract was up anyways, but a BCD would really suck. the scary thing is i have 3 kids and a wife too support, and think ive ruined all thier lives.

but after reading this board im starting to realize there may be life after the corps.

Hey Aaron. Youre not getting a BCD for popping positive for THC. They will threaten you with it, but their is no way a Judge will allow a BCD no matter how bad your chain of command wants you to get one. Another thing, if it hasn't happened already, NCIS is going to want to talk to you. Tell them politely to go fuck themselves. They are going to threaten you with all kinds of bullshit. Say nothing to them.. You have a right to talk to a lawyer, and you need to do that before anything else, no matter what your chain of command tells you to do. You can not get in any trouble for this no matter how much it pisses off NCIS and your chain of command. Your lawyer will tell all of this if he hasnt already. Popping on a piss test is a pretty cut and dry process. Youll get busted down and all the other shit that comes with it, and then youll be discharged with an OTH.

Use the time that the Corps spends fucking with your case to develop a solid plan for when you get out. Start looking for jobs, applying for college, or both. You should also allot out as much of your paycheck as possible. This way if your unit tries to take money from you at your courts martial or NJP they can only take up to half of what you do not have allotted out. So open a savings account and start your allotment. Also if you are serving your second enlistment right now (you served your first enlistment honorably) you are still entitled to all your benefits including your GI bill.

Im sure youre probably feeling alot of shitty things right now, but their is alot you can do to minimize your punishment and the impact this has on your civilian life. Good luck AAron

hey does an oth fuck up any possibility of getting in to college and will it fuck any opportunity to get a job after college?

thank you nick for your reply. it makes me feel less like a "shitbird"
unfortunantly ive alread talked to NCIS, it was the first thing they had me
do, and i ammited to smoking pot, i thought hell they got a positive result
back so theres no point in denying it. thier gonna send me and the other
popers up to a special court marshal, and probably make a example of us,
becuase i work on the V-22 osprey and were a training unit under alot of
magnifying glasses, so im really scared as to what thier gonna do to a
career sgt that popped for drugs.

as for the Gi bill, i keep hearing that im gonna lose it, even though im on
my second contract, theres so much bullshit, and its really hard to tell
whats fact or fiction in the corps.
other rumor is that they will try to keep me in after my court marshall to
finish out my contract, but im hopeing they just give me the boot, im so fed
up with this life, all its done is made me a bitter man, with alot of debt.

i know i should get a civillian lawer but, its expensive and dont think ill
be able to afford one, is there anypoint in getting a millitary lawer, or
would that be like shooting myself in the foot, sorry i know theres alot of
questions, but like i said before and as you know the millitarys full of
bullshit rumors that you cant rely on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick"
Subject: Some stuff you should know about pissing POS


> Hey Aaron. Youre not getting a BCD for popping
> positive for THC. They will threaten you with it, but
> their is no way a Judge will allow a BCD no matter how
> bad your chain of command wants you to get one.
> Another thing, if it hasn't happened already, NCIS is
> going to want to talk to you. Tell them politely to go
> fuck themselves. They are going to threaten you with
> all kinds of bullshit. Say nothing to them.. You have
> a right to talk to a lawyer, and you need to do that
> before anything else, no matter what your chain of
> command tells you to do. You can not get in any
> trouble for this no matter how much it pisses off NCIS
> and your chain of command. Your lawyer will tell all
> of this if he hasnt already. Popping on a piss test is
> a pretty cut and dry process. Youll get busted down
> and all the other shit that comes with it, and then
> youll be discharged with an OTH.
>
> Use the time that the Corps spends fucking with your
> case to develop a solid plan for when you get out.
> Start looking for jobs, applying for college, or both.
> You should also allot out as much of your paycheck as
> possible. This way if your unit tries to take money
> from you at your courts martial or NJP they can only
> take up to half of what you do not have allotted out.
> So open a savings account and start your allotment.
> Also if you are serving your second enlistment right
> now (you served your first enlistment honorably) you
> are still entitled to all your benefits including your
> GI bill.
>
> Im sure youre probably feeling alot of shitty things
> right now, but their is alot you can do to minimize
> your punishment and the impact this has on your
> civilian life. Good luck AAron- Nick

ooppss copied wrong post

Hi, ya i was like wondering, would it even matter about all those people who came up hot on a urinalisis the day someone bombs the shit out of us(refering to united states) with a nuclear weapon or gases us with biological or chemical weapon? What do you think the military would say..? Oh, you got an other than honorable discharge, so you can't come back in. Oh, even better... I know that half the fucking population in our country are dead, but you smoked weed, or did coke or meth or whatever and those types of people are bad, so you cant come back in. Did anyone ever consider if a Military draft was ordered if any this shit mattered too... I THINK NOT!!!

corazondeoro on May 10, 2005 9:45 PM

I have an OTH from back in 1991. I didn't do anything, per se, no disciplinary problems, I just wanted out because the command I was at SUCKED ASS. I went to my CO and SgtMaj and told them that I wanted to get out. They forwarded my request to the base CO and he helped me get out within a month. I had been in the Marine Corps for 8 years and basically had enough, with a couple years left on my SECOND enlistment. Now, almost 15 years later, I think I might want to try getting on with the Fire Department. Here's my question, I have a DD214. I don't have it in my possession, but I was honorably discharged and reenlisted in 1987. I reenlisted for 6 years and only made it another four before personal problems made me ask to get out.

Will I have a problem getting on with the Fire Department with an OTH if I also have an Honorable? Will anybody care after 15 or more years? By the time I finish fire school and paramedic school, it will probably be another two years or more. Thanks in advance for any advice.

JJ, i was in the Marines for only 11 months before i got in trouble for refusing to go to PANAMA and get some action fighting a war on drugs that i thought wasn't worth it. Shit, i regret it but at the time it was a political stand that i took because i believed in it.

It was a huge mistake and i am very sorry for doing what i did. I was UA for 12 months after i had missed my flight going to RODMAN BASE, PANAMA to serve as a MARINE SECURITY FORCES GUARD.

This was in 1989 AND I RECIEVED an BAD CONDUCT DISCHARGE after i turned myself in 13 months later.

Well, i am currently waiting to see if i passed the Police Officer Civil Service Exam here in Massachusetts and if i do i will not lie about my DD214 because they will find out however, in your case it isn't as bad as my situation so you should be ok so long as you don't hide it because they want the truth and that's why i would not hire you if you wanted the job...FOR NOT BEING TRUTHFUL. ;)

Myself i have to say that i was 19 and i just wasn;t thinking mature enough to stay in because it was an option and like an idiot thinking like a 19 year old let the opportunity slip away.

Shit, I LOVED THE MARINE CORPS then and now but mistakes are forever.

Anyway, i wish yo luck JJ and to all the other ex - Marines.

Regarding my case i told the Human Resources Center personal that handle the Police Officer testing that i was wondering if that would affect me in gettting the job and he said no but DO NOT lie about because all that DD214 serves for is for preference in getting selected first.

Being Latin American in a city of preference and where i live in Massachusetts will help me attain the job because the city is in pretty much "GOOD NEED" of foreign language speaking Officers.

Interesting Stuff Gents

Sorry shit didn't work out for alot of us in The Military but life goes on just be truthful if you must because if not, it will lead to more mistakes...so stop right now while you are ahead.

Be very apologetic and mean it...don't just say it just to say it...im 34 now and i have learned my lesson.

An upgrade is very much complex but it is possible, but from what i have learned it only helps if there really was an error that caused the title of your discharge to be titled something else...they do look at your status and decorations but mainly look at the thing that got you in trouble in the first place...THAT'S HOW THE MARINE CORPS HAS ALWAYS BEEN so expect that yet battle for your right...one thing we all did was volunteer and that took balls all on it's own and, i believe that makes you in a sense better thaan the next tom dick and harry who slept while we went through the "Crusible".

PEACE,

JOSE LEBRON

(Just JOE please)

Jose Lebron on May 12, 2005 6:46 PM

Just a reminder to anyone reading the above post. His mistakes are forever and be honest part is refering to trying to get a civil service job, not a private sector job.

Also if you get whatever job you need to have to get by until you work for yourself then the concept of disscharge type should become even more irrelevant.

Other companies like Enron and WorldCom screwed people who worked for them for 30 years and retired.

Bush is trying to exploit social security retirement savings from people too, but I am hoping his shady SSI pillaging ideals do not become legislation.

The best bet for employment security is to find a way to create automated income streams where you work for yourself, but as a person who has done that I can say it is a lot of work to do that honestly.

I was in the first Gulf War. Once I came back I partied, tested positive, and recieved an OTH. I still love the Corps. If I were asked to return, I would go.

Now I am an Engineer, I have and AAS degree and I am working on my BS degree. Just like the rest of you, I made a mistake. The way I see it is I was under the impression we always looked out for each other, like family. Well in 1991, that family, rather then help me, persecuted me. Call it a sick one sided love for the Corps. but I would still stand alongside any Marine. And when I say SEMPER FIDELIS, I freakin mean it.

tell me about it, they make you fell like you killed someone.
went to talk to legal yesturday and he gave me the lowdown on the proceedings, and what they could do to me for the mistake i made...the worst one would be reduction to E-1 and a year in the brig...for pot!!!
man i just think to myself if this was the civillian world id get a slap on the wrist and a fine.

the Aaron who just posted is not the Aaron who runs this site. They may have been using scare tacticts to try to encourage a plea.

No reason to make any pleas or admit to anything until after you speak to legitimate legal council. Those people will fuck you and not care. If they did care about people and humanity they probably would not be in a leadership position in the military.

man thier sticking it to me at work, everyday consists of the same routine, clean the hanger deck all day long, but dont get cuaght staning around or its musters 4 times a day... what a bunch of jerks, they act like i killed someone. still no word on when the court marshall will be, man six months of hanger deck, word of advice never pop on piss test.
if ui didnt have a family to support id probably go ua

Thanks for this site, my son popped for coke and all around us was nothing but negative. Every post(most of them anyway) gave me hope, and i passed it along told everyone to go read aaron wall. this is not the end of his life it is the start of a new one. Thanks and Best wishes to all of you!!!

I wish I had found this site ALOT sooner. I am in the same boat as a bunch of you guys. I was on float in 01, I was on the Kearsarge when 9/11 happened. and when we came back home I was sent back to my parent unit in the Corps. Well push comes to shove and had a whiz quiz...guess what I popped for X. I had never done any drugs in my life but some how there was 65000 nanograms in my urine...do you know how much that is? but the thing is my test was done in November but they didn't get the "results" til Feb 27, the day before I was to get promoted, meritoriously, to Sgt. I was only in the Corp for 2 years 7 months by this point. I was told that I was getting kicked out and they wanted a confession, I told them to fuck off and they gave me an OTH with a RE-4B. I graduated boot camp COMPANY Honor man, picke dup PFC because of it, then was Top in my class at MCT, Meritorious Mast; went to MOS school and graduated again top of my class, picked up Lcpl, sent to my duty station and got a NAM for being the only Embarker for Dynamic Mix 00 and completely running the show; got another NAM on float when I was promoted to Cpl in less than 2 years. When I got back I learned there was bad blood between me and my "NEW" Butter bar, I had Billet, he had Rank, I was in charge. Long story short I was kicked out 3 months after meeting this guy. I had NEVER been trouble before. I was a Police Cadet in HS, Volunteered at the Humane Society, Got an Associetes Degree in my 1st year of service, etc...I was an MODEL MARINE. Shit I was Marine of the Quarter at my Unit in my second year in, hence meritorious Sgt. I had 62 Marines working for me during 9/11 and they had to look up to someone, then all this came down? I was stabbed in the back by the very people I had come to love and look up to. I had the backing of EVERY E-7 and below in my Unit at me Sep board and they still gave me the boot. I recently learned that my LT was kicked out for drug posession, is there anything I can do to contest my service record? I have a REALLY good job now, doing what I did in the military, LOGISTICS. I don't know why I want the upgrade, I have never told a single employer that I was kicked out until now, but my boss said he doesn't care, I'm too good at what I do; and that is follow the rules and get shit done.

The Marines are not a BAND OF BROTHERS, they are aforce of vindictive, coniving, pricks, who have no idea what MORALS are, or HONOR, or COMMITMENT!!! Semper Fi my ASS!!! TO this day I am in touch with most of my "friends" and send them magazines and food/treats over seas. I do what I can for the people who were there for me. Shit I make more than my CO now!!!

Once upon a time, long, long, long, ago (pre-1975), the Army "illegally" gave other-than-honorable discharges to many service members as the result of compelled urinalysis testing for the purpose of drug rehabilitation (either for entry into a drug program, or to monitor progress while in such a program).

In 1979, giving a less-than-honorable discharge for such testing was deemed illegal.

On November 27, 1979, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia in ''Giles v. Secretary of the Army" (Civil Action No. 77-0904), ruled that a former Army service member is entitled to an honorable discharge, if discharged before 1 January 1975 as a result of an administrative proceeding in which the Army introduced evidence developed by or as a direct or indirect result of compelled urinalysis testing administered for the purpose of identifying drug abusers (either for the purposes of entry into a treatment program or to monitor progress through rehabilitation or follow up).

In other words, the court said it was okay to discharge for such urinalysis results, but it was not okay to base the service-characterization on such results.

Justin Bush on May 17, 2005 2:45 PM

BTW...I thought I should mention that My Butter Bar was a British Royal Marine before joining MY Corps and he new my Grandpa who was a former Col. in the Irish Republican Army. So there was bad blood between us already.

justin, it sounds like you got framed, id try to take it to the naval seps board or something...

heres an update on my saga, they fucked up the piss test by not haveing the witnesses sign, and not filling out the chain of custody paper work...ha dumb asses, i sent a letter to my congrassman tonight and 60 minuetes...fuck em!

bet ya theyll still try to cover up the paper work fuck up and send me to a special court martial...

funny thing ive always said while in the corps is "if the marine corps was a buisness it go bankrupt"

fucking idiots

Wow, so glad I found this site. Truly inspirational.

There are 2 types of people in this world, those who accept their circumstances and those who have an open mind and realize there is always a choice. Both have posted on this board and both have received every kind of discharge. I read the post where the guy got kicked out for refusing to fight a war he didn't believe in. Now he seems to have lost that open mind he used to have.

It's a difficult thing. Most the time in life, the right choice is the hard one...but those are the things that determine who we are and where we go in life.

Right now I am on active duty in the navy. I'm a nuke also, heh. Maybe not anymore though...I have a legal case pending for disobeying a lawful order. I didn't agree with it and finally hit a point where I had to make the right choice. Honestly, it was something most people would not be in that much trouble for. However, I really pissed them off, although not on purpose. I just told the truth and they knew I wouldn't back down or give in to them. Well anyway, going through the process, they had me write a statement on what happened. I told them what and why. Funny thing is, when I got to thinking about the "why?" I realized this was a long time coming. I finally hit a point where I decided to threaten to break the oath I made. And I told them what had led me to it...the low morale within our division...the favortism...the fraternization...the stealing, the lying, the mistreatment. I told it all. In all likelyhood they will try and cover it all up. I don't think I'll stop now though. If the command tries to cover it up, I'll go as high as I have to...I'll talk to the CO, then the admiral. If that doesn't work, I'll talk to someone in congress. If that doesn't work, I'll send a letter to the president himself. And if that doesn't work, I still have the first amendment. I will write a book about my career and all the injustices that have taken place. Because I know I am in the right on this. I may have placed careers in jeopardy, including my own, but I am glad I made the choices I did.

They hate me. I no longer let them walk on me. A lot of people say the navy owns you. I, however, am no slave. They only own those who let them.

My case is pending. I am ready for whatever happens. I will be more successful in my life than any of them.

My husband is getting out with an OTH for homosexual conduct and falseification of an official document. His board was last week and I am 9 months pregnant! How long does it take bupers to get the paperwork done? Because i have moved back home and i'm awaiting his arrival. Thanks

is it true that with a general discharge i can't get enployed by the post office? i passed the test, drug test, and oral interview they said everything looked good until they saw my discharge. i thought a general discharge was good enough to get in. am i wrong please help me find some where that it says that with a general discharge i can't work in the post office. thank's

Anthony Rivera on May 24, 2005 3:59 PM

Im a reservist in the USMC and i am thinking of going UA for good. Ive ben to basic but im on the college split program. I have not been to MOS or MCT and i am wondering if i dont report to those this summer, will it be worse than an OTH?

Also, if i just dont show up to drill and i dont answer their calls whats their next step? I heard they come to your house for your gear? lol is this true?
How long does it take before they discharge you if your a reservist?
I know they were calling some of the marines for like 2 years every month untill finally they took them off the roster.

Thanks for the help.

Anthony Rivera

Thats a bunch if BS they told you. I worked for the USPS and I have an OTH...I worked there 4 months after getting the boot.

I had a question...does it really take ten days to process out in Virginia. I just got a General under honorable conditions, and I'm dreading going to Norfolk. I spent one day there and I hate the damn TPU. Any help in this matter would be appreciated.

CTO3 Robinson on May 25, 2005 10:33 AM

I was discharged in april of 03 for a positive urinalysis for marujuana. I went to a club with an in law of mine at the time, started feeling bad and went to go make a phone call. The next thing i seen was the bright light of a hospital room at balboa. I had been informed that i had been picked up via ambulance and that toxicology revealed thc in my bloodwork. I received 45/45 1/2 months pay for two months and was processed out on an OTH.
Since I have been out of the navy i have relocated home in nc. I have not been able to find hardly any info on OTH'S or what to do about them. I am interested in facts on how it affects you're civilian life as far as employment status and benefits if any, and upgrades if possible. If anyone has factual information please feel free to contact me at darius_blah@yahoo.com

My husband is being kicked out of the usn on an oth discharge. He didn't tell on a friend w/ drugs. We just got married and are trying to buy a house w/ his va! We started the whole loan process before we knew he was getting the boot. Can they take away his va eligibility and make us loose this house??? Please help w/ answers!

sara,
Chances are the VA loan will still go through. It takes forever for paperwork to get around and the military loves to paper fuck its militants.

Aaron, If you get a chances can you answer my previous post...or anyone can answer...
I just need to know what will probably happen.
Thanx

hello all...
my name is cody i have served 2 years in the usmc and i popped positive on a wiz quiz x2. I have no record of drug use...or any NJP or page 11's. i had 4.6/4.7 pro/con i went on a special court martial and was reduced to e-1 and loss of $200 a month for 6 months and spent 40 days in the brig, but i never recived a discharge....i thought i was staying in untill my chasers came to pick me up one day to do my final phisical. my command is ad seping me with a oth...i dont get it, is this going to ruin me? im 20 and all i want is to get into school... i dont know how much longer i can stay sain and not lose it...i have been a pvt now for 4 months and still waiting on my 5 day letter..i get stuck on the shittest working parties cuz i lost my security clearance....im bout to go mad...does anyone have some advice? if so email me coatzbanky@yahoo.com
oh yeah one last thing EAT THE APPLE...FUCK THE CORPS...OH-RAH!!!

cody Pvtmaj of marine corps on May 26, 2005 6:01 PM

Cody,
You got fucked. You should not have done any brig time or lost that much money. You can still get into school and get federal jobs...Like you said...FUCK THE CORPS...They try to scare you, thats all it is is scare tactics. When I got out I went to school part time and worked for the Post Office, so the whole OTH fucking up your life thing is all how you react to it. Don't let the fuckers get you down...KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!!!

one more word of advise to all awaiting seperation, or court martial or njp...

dont give those bastards anymore ammo then they alread have on you.

in other words, im a sgt (usmc) scrubbing shitters awaitning courtmartial, and thier just waiting for me to fuck up in anyway so they can add another charge sheet to the list.

if it was up to my command they would have me busted down all the way to pvt, put in the brig, take all my pay, starve my family, and fuck my civilian life. im not gonna give them the chance, fuck em, just do what ever time you have left, take all the bullshit they throw at you, and get the fuck out...

funny! the marine corps preaches about being profeshional, but doesnt practice it....

To the soldiers and marines.....wow. I could not do what you heros do. I'm a nuke on the Roosevelt. I don't get shot at. I will never know the hell that you men and women face. I have another hell to face. I get to work with 1950's technology while trying to prevent turning a port into a nuclear waste site. You guys got "Full Metal Jacket" or "Platoon"...I got "Office Space". We are taught to question every order. I've seen guys go to NJP's for following orders. 5 years of operating experience going up against some fucking wannabe flight office from the academy. No matter what your ASVAB score, the military destroyes you. I nearly went to mast for assault on a commisioned officer. Got told we would only hit Crete in an entire 6 month cruise. I have a serious issue with alcohal. I volunteer for liberty restriction knowing I had a problem with alcohal. I broke down.....next day I faced 17 charges. How do you attempt to assualt and assualt the same commisioned officer? Turned out to be the XO of the Air Wing. Dropped all charges since the shore patrol guy that pulled me in was drunk at the time. I also had photo's of me drinking with the head of sercurity for my boat. Third, I was already standing 5 and 10's and due to radiation stay times we can't offically do 6 and 6's in a critical plant. Yeah, radiation saved my career. Worst part, I was lied to through the whole process. Now as an E-5, I serve as the unoffical lawyer for M-Div. I have helped many since learning the hard way. The individuals using their experiences to help others through this site are doing a tremendous service to many people. Even the clueless bastards like me still in. Thank you.

To the soldiers and marines.....wow. I could not do what you heros do. I'm a nuke on the Roosevelt. I don't get shot at. I will never know the hell that you men and women face. I have another hell to face. I get to work with 1950's technology while trying to prevent turning a port into a nuclear waste site. You guys got "Full Metal Jacket" or "Platoon"...I got "Office Space". We are taught to question every order. I've seen guys go to NJP's for following orders. 5 years of operating experience going up against some fucking wannabe flight office from the academy. No matter what your ASVAB score, the military destroyes you. I nearly went to mast for assault on a commisioned officer. Got told we would only hit Crete in an entire 6 month cruise. I have a serious issue with alcohal. I volunteer for liberty restriction knowing I had a problem with alcohal. I broke down.....next day I faced 17 charges. How do you attempt to assualt and assualt the same commisioned officer? Turned out to be the XO of the Air Wing. Dropped all charges since the shore patrol guy that pulled me in was drunk at the time. I also had photo's of me drinking with the head of sercurity for my boat. Third, I was already standing 5 and 10's and due to radiation stay times we can't offically do 6 and 6's in a critical plant. Yeah, radiation saved my career. Worst part, I was lied to through the whole process. Now as an E-5, I serve as the unoffical lawyer for M-Div. I have helped many since learning the hard way. The individuals using their experiences to help others through this site are doing a tremendous service to many people. Even the clueless bastards like me still in. Thank you.

I would like anyone who has been discharged for misuse of marajuana to reply on the forum, due to the fact that I'd down have an email and would like to keep my personal info private. How long did it take from the time you went to NJP for you to get completely discharged from the Navy? This is without an administrative board request. PLEASE help. I have a job on the outside and the JAG office is being wishy-washy. Right now I am on 30 days restriction and was told that I could be discharged BEFORE my restriction ends. By the way, a trick to get another month's pay (if you have 30 days leave and are being discharged with an OTH). Hopefully you have some leave days saved up. When you get off restriction (if it takes that long) take all the leave from that very second on. Do your most of checkout work while you're on leave. This includes everything up until getting your pay ended and your DD214 received. On the last day of your leave, finish EVERYTHING you need to, and go to your chain of command with all of your paperwork done. Make sure you don't tell them about it ahead of time, though. Maybe if you can trust your LPO, give them a head's up, but say it's only a posibilty that you can do it depending on your paperwork trail ;). This is so you don't lose any money for leave days you save up since you can't sell them back to the Navy if you get an OTH! :) If I learn anything else, I'll let you know.

bitter_achiever on May 30, 2005 6:57 PM

Does anyone have any recent story's for turning yourself in from being UA for the Marine Corp? I'm about to do so and I'd like to know what to expect, I'm also past 90 days. Thanks to anyone who helps and thanks arron for this site that gives people like me hope.

I was discharged from the US Navy in 1986 for getting popped on a urinalysis. I was not even in for 2 years. I think I got an OTH but not sure. I have always said NONE when asked about military service and I have never been questioned. I even hold a few state licenses and it's never come up.
I am wanting to try and upgrade mine now to buy a house VA. Since it's been so long ago do you guys think this is at all possible? How can I find out what discharge I received?

I was AWOL from the navy but was only 45 days. I was court marshalled and sent to do a UA and thats what got me discharged. Not sure in the USMC. My sons in the USMC now but is doing ok.

I would like anyone who has been discharged for misuse of marajuana to reply on the forum, due to the fact that I'd down have an email and would like to keep my personal info private. How long did it take from the time you went to NJP for you to get completely discharged from the Navy? This is without an administrative board request. PLEASE help. I have a job on the outside and the JAG office is being wishy-washy. Right now I am on 30 days restriction and was told that I could be discharged BEFORE my restriction ends. By the way, a trick to get another month's pay (if you have 30 days leave and are being discharged with an OTH). Hopefully you have some leave days saved up. When you get off restriction (if it takes that long) take all the leave from that very second on. Do your most of checkout work while you're on leave. This includes everything up until getting your pay ended and your DD214 received. On the last day of your leave, finish EVERYTHING you need to, and go to your chain of command with all of your paperwork done. Make sure you don't tell them about it ahead of time, though. Maybe if you can trust your LPO, give them a head's up, but say it's only a posibilty that you can do it depending on your paperwork trail ;). This is so you don't lose any money for leave days you save up since you can't sell them back to the Navy if you get an OTH! :) If I learn anything else, I'll let you know.
Posted by: bitter_achiever at May 30, 2005 06:57 PM

Dude, you'll be out the day you get off of restriction and extra duty if you have any. They want you're usefulness up to the very end. i had 45/45 and 1/2 mo. pay for 2 mo. I was out the day i got off of restriction. pack you're shit up and get escorted to the main gate of the base.

I was stationed at naval station san diego on limdu workin at the 1st Lt.'s office.

Well...some good did come out of my whole situation after all. My conditional waiver was approved and I am getting out with a General Under Honorable Conditions. My advice to all Army troops facing discharge is to stick to your guns and learn the regulations. My lawyer said I made his job extremely easy by knowing what was REALLY going on. To give you some background I popped for meth and it's something I'm not proud of, but it happened and that's that. In the end it all came down to a quid pro quo situation. I gave up my board in exchange for the better characterization of service. Focus on the GOOD points of your service when you write your letter to the commander and apologize emphatically for your transgressions.I know it takes a toll on your pride but feeding some commander's ego to improve your situation is a small price to pay for a piece of "good paper."
Let them know that you don't intend to make a petition to your congressman and that you won't make any negative statements to the media. It may sound trife, but it is leverage you can use in your favor. At a time when the Army is in a crunch for recruits the last thing they need is bad press. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!! Remember that your time in service does not define you as a person. YOU ARE WHAT YOU'LL DO WHEN IT COUNTS!!!


De Oppresso Liber

Tim C.

CIVILIAN SOON on June 6, 2005 2:55 PM

I was just booted out of the navy with an oth for patterns of misconduct may 19th 2005 after 2 years and 2 months of giving up my rights to protect others my legal officer ltjg brown vfa-122 nas lemoore california hangar 5 dropped me off at the back gate in the middle of miles of field and farmland with all my shit took a picture of me and said bye expecting me to walk 10 miles to civilization in 93 degree weather, and when someone offered to give me a ride out of the goodness of their heart ltjg brown advised him not to give me a ride anywhere, after basically telling the officer to fuck off he gave me a ride anyways. So all my fellow oth'ERS there's hope for us after all because were not bad people the military just says we are when they're the most fucked up of them all!!! So anyways my point is FUCK THE UNITED STATES NAVY!!!

Well, first off I would just like to thank Aaron for creating this site. I've just entered a world of uncertainty, but thanks to you I can see a little clearer now.
Here's my story, I had just started training at Ft. Benning GA but could not and would not accept the mental degration those people make you suffer in order to 'break you down'. Never have I felt myself to be in such a hostile environment where if you were not with the Army, you were against them. I recieved threats, was harrassed, and basically could not see the fine line between lie and truth amongst these assholes. So I left and am now considered AWOL. I've read stories on your sight that they will try and restart me if I return within 30 days, but if I am a deserter that they will give me an OTH discharge. I'm fine with the discharge, I just want to make sure that when I return that I get the discharge.
I'm a college student with one year complete, still maintaining above a 3.0 GPA. My life was set before the Army and then some Recruiter coaxed me with a pretty picture. How I loved the idea of physical training all summer before going back to college, basically a way to stay fit because I like to run, and weight lift and all that. But could not adapt to their uniformity, their structure, the way they want you to be like a machine, and the way they treat you. I cannot respect someone who has no respect for me. All I want is to return to college, get my degree, and forget about this whole military thing. Everyone told me it was not for me, and now I see why after having been in training for 4 weeks.
Should I turn myself in before or after 30 days to ensure that I will receive the dischare and not be restarted?
Thank you for your advice, it means a lot to me.

Confused Soul on June 7, 2005 12:05 AM

I believe you can get a failure to conform discharge if you are new to the service. try talking to your Chaplain and the like. Don't try to reason with your command if they do not respect you and are not being reasonable to you.

I understand what you have said, but I'm still uncertain as to whether I should return as AWOL or a Deserter. I've heard that each carries it's own consequences, you know, if I turn myself in while I'm still AWOL or after the 30 day mark.

Confused Soul on June 7, 2005 3:28 AM

the consequences of your decision might be a bit too important to rely upon free advice over the web.

some options: try the helping out site or contact a lawyer or go back and talk to a chaplain.

in the past they were lax when people quit the reserves, but now that many of them are going over ot Iraq to die (for oil) they may be a bit less lax on letting people out.

I think you should turn yourself in awol because we are in war time and the penalty for deserters in war time is death. I'm not saying they're going to do that to you since you are new to the service, but if you want to get on with your life I wouldn't chance it.

The military isnt lax at alll...look at what the recruiters are doing now...They resorted to kidknapping in FL. and here in IL recruiters are civilians, no military background.

Confused Soul, here's the best advice I can give, call the GI Rights hotline. To get the number just google it. As for me I'm a UA marine and I have to wait 180 days before turning myself in to get a discharge. So good luck.

Hello to Everyone,
I really appreciate the support and the advice. I called up the hotline yesterday and am now set straight, or at least for the next 30 days until I'm dropped from the rolls. Thanks, I will post my story after everything goes down in about a month.

Confused Soul on June 8, 2005 2:42 PM

hello everyone...thanx arron for this site it has given me hope...well he is my story...my husband is in the us navy ,he is a E-5 resently busted down to an E-4 he has been in the navy for 5 yrs now ...He recently did somethings that are a bit out of his character..first was when we where stoppes by the MP's after begin wavied through the gate ,we had just arrived to the island and still had out of state plates ,lons story short he got out of the car after 15 min of just sitting there and he ended up in hang cuffs on the ground and in the brig .then a few months had passed and he is in trouble again for grabbing a seamen after this guy pissed him off he did not hit him he only shook the boy,then he got in trouble for telling his 1 st class to keep his name out of him mouth or he was going to punch him in the head,after all this he went on and as a practical joke that went too far called the deck one day and said there is a bomb on board what are you going to do about it...then called back immediatly and retracted his statment ......well he went to DRB and mass and they have decided to kick him out due to the fact that they think that he has anger managment issues and the see a pattern going .he is currently waiting to go before the admin sep board and is trying to stay navy..... only cause we have 3 kids and are fearful of not having a paycheck...the command failed to see that he made rank within 6 months at his last command..does this count for anything??the only other thime he was taken to mass was 4 yrs ago after fighting with a shipmate..and they are even holding this against him ....I was depressed ,but after reading all of your storys I have found some hope..Life does go on after the navy,.....thankx....so my question is Is there a chance that he will not be kicked out??

hello all, thanks aaron for this site. I was in the navy 6 days out of high school in 1995 to 1996. . I had about a year in and my ship was decommissioning (it was an aircraft carrier)after it i got sent to a crappy ass small ship and it sucked hard, i never adapted to any of my new crewmates. I had a gravy job , running the ships store but my shipmates in my division were completely stuck on themselves they would steal things from the store (unknown to me at the time but i had an idea) Eventually i was got popped on a radom ua and tested positive.I recieved an oth. Before capatins mast the c.o. said "you'll never get a job now" but it was complete bullshit. I have had 2 decent and 1 really good job. I only put down my navy exp. 1 time and they asked me why i got out early. I told them my family was having trouble and and i needed out and they granted it. The employer belived me and it was never brought up again. So dont say nothing about it, hell say it was honorable if you do put it on an application chances are they wont look it up. If you need to try to get your oth or worse upgraded, contact your local va, mines cool as hell and very helpful. Right now Im in the process of getting mine upgraded to a general discharge just for piece of mind for myself.... anyway good luck to everyone

>so my question is Is there a chance that he will not be kicked out??

based on how you told the story he is almost certainly getting kicked out.

BLAH BLAH BLAH, DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS, WINE WINE WINE......STOP BEING IDIOTS, SAY YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL, MOST LIKELY YOU WILL BE HONORABLY DISCHARGED, NO ONE CAN DISCRIMINATE AGAINST YOU IN EMPLOYMENT FOR IT, IT WILL SAVE YOU A LOT OF THOUGH AND HASSE, BUT SOME GAY POORN AND LOOK AT IT WHILE ON THE JOB OR SOMETHING, STOP BEING STUPID ALREADY!

has anyone heard about the "second chance sailor"program?? where they supposedly put you in a diffrent command and start you off again??

The second chance sailor can work out for some, but we had a couple go off our boat and a couple go on our boat.

The ones that left were viewed as shitbags. The ones that I can remember coming to the boat were also viewed as shitbags pretty quickly.

It can work out, but like anything else I think it is luck of the draw. Your best bet is to think of what you can do when you get out.

Well after reading you alls comments I dont feel so bad anymore, because I thought i was one of the few who told the army to kiss my ass. I was 1 of about 10 soldiers in my company to get kicked out for burning up a piss test. And it was no mistake. Now dont get it confused I was not a ragbag soldier. I was promoted to E-5 in three years. But that didnt matter when they found out there beloved soldier was a weed-head. I had been smoking the whole time I was in. I just woke up one morning and I realized that I didnt trust my chain of command and they really gave 2 shits about me. I failed my urinalysis after I re-enlisted so that locked in my benefits. When I found this out I REALLY didnt give a fuck. Dont get me wrong The Army taught me how to do a lot of cool stuff that I wont use unless I plan on going postal some where. Combat arms is just that, Combat. No classes, no courses they claimed they had no time in the trainning schedule. So I had no time for them. Long story short. Your employer wont know about your discharge unless you tell them. Iv been out since 2002. And ive had no problems finding work. Grown man jobs too not rinky-dink 10.00hr jobs. Just use what you learned in the military, use little military words in interviews like, vehicle names you drove or operated, course youve taking, words like teamwork, detailed oriented, you get the point. And you should have no problem. My stress level is so low now compared to 3 years ago. Take charge of your life. And guess what... I still smoke weed. HAAAA HAAA.
HOOAHHH! TANKERS!!!!!

Oh yeah thanks Aaron good job. There is a section in my psycy that is cleared thanks to this website

John Kerry received an other than honorable discharge.

Well, I like this BLA BLA BLA WINE WINE WINE GUY! So this is for him. I was in the army in 1996. I was an MP and never in 2 years had a negative or general monthly counseling statement. I was solider of the month, quarter, and year. I had received recomendation for a ARCOM(Army commendation Medal) but because I was only an E-3 / PFC they shot it down to a Army achievement medal which is still awesome. I was transefered into traffic division and was on the SRT(SWAT) team. Excellent model solider. I was selected out of my unit that had 270 soliders in it to drive for the Col and be his Ast. Wow, and I was slotted for PLDC School so I could get my CPL and bypass SPC. All this in two years. I got married, found my wife snorting Coke, kicked her out, filed for divorce. She disappeared, 6 months later we had a change in command, my new Company commander came in, I wrote him a ticket 3 weeks prior for speeding, he confronts me and tells me, "your ass is mine now".. I go out friday night to the clubs, meet a girl who is smoking a cigarette, drinking beer, and wearing make-up. We go to a hotel, have sex. I find out she is 19, I am 19, and that she is an E-3 in the army. Then it comes out. She graduates in 5 days from my base. OH NO!!!! I tell my Battallion commander since we have grown close, and he says dont worry about it you didnt know. Another solider in my unit tells my Commander, and army o-3 cpt, stated above, and he gives me a Company Grade Article 15. The lowest available punishment. Leaves ur file in 6 months or when u leave ur unit. Then he tries to chapter me in Feb 1998. The BC Col. denise the chapter. The Co tries 8 more times to chapter me out, and the Col. Says NO!!!! In august our BC Col, and B Csm both retire. New replacements come in on aug 27th, and he hand walks the packet over. I am gone out of the service and off the base by august 28. Every recuirter and service member I have talked to said BS!!!! That commander abused his authority. I brought the IG's office and a congressman into it. My complaint of verbal physical and mental abuse by a Commision Officer, was found SUBTANSIATED!!! So what happened to him you want to know. A letter in file and a General OER. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT!!! I stopped pushing after that. I had been wronged, hurt, and tainted. Yes I have found great jobs but my dream of police officer i felt was dead. NOW I AM FIGHTING BACK. Paperwork to change my discharge, RE-Code, and Reason for seperation are all being done by the military. A reserve recruiter got copies of my whole military file, spoke with 3 generals and 5 Col's about me all raving about how good a solider I was, and how much of an asshole my CO was. So my waiver for an RE-3 and General under honorable condition discharge has been submitted. It looks good for me. And now my local congressman just reviewed my military records and found favorable documents missing, as if someone omitted all my documents and records in my favor to make me look bad. Well now you can see how the military , NO an INDIVIDUAL fuked over such a great solider, and can see how easy it is. Anyone who doesnt believe me is welcome to see the documentation. But I will win in the end. I have my congressman, Col's, General's, and now recruiters all on my side helping me. If you have any questions or want help in upgrading email me at Vertigo1rg1@aol.com.

I am glad to help any that need it.

so it is true there is a second chance sailor program......some people had never even heard of this program why is it soo hush hush??

>so it is true there is a second chance sailor program

usually not for most drug type offenses or whatever, but lets say you got caught faking logs but they wanted to give you another try. its for that type of stuff.

sometimes people just get a raw deal. the people who get a raw deal probably usually get really fucked out of it and are not given a second chance. the harder you fight to prove the system is flawed the harder they will work to fuck you. people screwing you over will probably not be that big to the military unless they are subbordinate, E6 or below, or unless the problems are just too blatent to ignore or would cause great harm to the reputation of the military (like sexual stuff or racial discrimination)

to me the second chance sailor stuff is more for shitbags from what I have seen. people who did drugs or are legitimately getting screwed will probably just get rode out.

also there was a guy on my boat who got arrested for cocaine. the boat ended up finding out about it. he got stuck serving some time in restriction but he also got a lawyer who somehow got him out of it. he ended up going from the USS Dallas to the USS Pittsburgh.

the funny thing is that same kid gave me shit calling me a scumbag druggie when I got in trouble, and the same kid used to sell ecstasy (or beans as he called them) before he joined the Navy and he used drugs while he was in.

one of my buddies in restriction asked me what I was in there for and I told him drugs. one of the rare occassions where the word drugs brought me more respect. I teased him about that and he said "dude, could you imagine what a shitbag you would have to be to be in hear and not do drugs"

now I am not really trying to come off as a judgemental prick, after all, this thread really pushes the concept that nobody but yourself should judge what quality of a person that you are, but its that same frame of mind that many military members will have toward second chance sailors.

the second chance sailor stuff is not a good deal in my opinion for the following reasons:

  • if you honestly fucked up enough to get in trouble that bad then you may not fit the military lifestyle
  • people may or may not know what is wrong with you, but if they don't it gives them something to talk about. sometimes the rumoured ideas are far worse than what you did. in that reguard there is no such thing as a clean start in the military
  • it puts you in a negative frame. even if the command says "we want to give this guy a clean start" it still holds the hidden message "even though he was a fuck up in the recent past"
  • some people will try to hold it against you since they know if you do anything wrong it could be the end of your "career"
  • some people might watch you closer, as if you are a poisoned seed and it is their job to weed you out. if people believe something hard enough they can make reality match what is in their mind, especially if their rank is higher than yours.

mu husband is in his last year with the USMC. he has 11 months left. he has been to iraq in 2003 and has good pros and cons overall. he is desperate to get out now, and is curious to see if he can smoke weed and intentionally pop on a drug test, if that will get him separated from the usmc. also, if he does get seperated what are the consequences? will he be sent to the brig? and will he recieve an other than honorable discharge? please help.

Hi Jessica
if they know he intentionally did it to get out quickly they will drag it on. it took them about 5-6 months to process me out.

well, he has started smoking it occasionally this past month, and also has a history of depression and PTSD since he returned from iraq. thank you for your help!

if he is depressed a few things that can help:
- you trying your best to have a good relationship w him
- him exercising and seeing sunlight
- him eating healthy and taking vitamins (I also take 5 HTP sometimes, but I will warn it is not for everyone)
- him doing things he likes when he can

the military is really a scummy organization. they don't mention anything like PTSD when you sign up, and then when they fuck you with it they move on to infecting another person with their propaganda

not listed on the papers of casualties are the facts that many souls / spirits (or your religious equivalent) die in the military. glad to have regained a bit of mine after I got out.

I can't say what is best for him. My success since I left is likely due to being hard headed and running into some luck.

Question? My son joined at 17 went to boot camp and turned 18 while there.Did GREAT at boot camp...squad leader...meritorous prom to PFC went to MCT was sailing right along loved it...got to school didnot class up for over 7 weeks.lost it went ua 5 days went back on his own said he wanted out wrote statement he "smoked" while ua.was kicked out of the school they said he would get admin sep. did not happen in the mean time DRUGS are rampent there on the base he gets "caught" or so they say in a sting operation NCIS threatens him tells him "you write a statement,work for us and we cut you loose" BIG LIE! he writes statement does a "wired buy" for them they bust the person(a cilvian)they want him to work on another he tells them no cut me loose and they do...however they charge him! before he is actually charged he is put on RILA he is on restriction for about 30 days when he is called in and told he is getting a general court martial by the way no at this point he is not even been told he can speak to a lawyer!they tell him to sign the charge sheets...he does not he calls home i tell him get your ass to legal right now before he can get there they come and ask him for the charge sheets he is told by the legal chief that the signatures are wrong! he gives them back because he is "following orders" oh and he is told he can not go to legal without the charge sheets...the next day he is sent to legal where he is asked by the LT.Com. "why should we defend you?""what can you do for us".He is given a lawyer who tells us he is under "orders" not to speak to us(his parents)from his LT Com even though our son has told him to speak to us.The lawyer puts in for SILT and is told by the prosocuter that the CO says "tell him his client is f-@#.(this will be important later)He is on Rila for 70+ days which his lawyer thinks it has only been 21 and tells our son to go get the records he does.end of the story they take him to to a special court martial (he was given a JG LT. for a lawyer can he even defend at a general court martial?)his laywer tells him to plead guilty to all charges write a statement they will cap his time at 10 mo. Prosocuter asks for max.he gets 7 months brig busted back loss 2\3 pay and a BCD now the lawyer finds out 10 min before trial that the SILT NEVER was even given to the CO and decides that they have the PTA so they will just "go forward" nice guy but it's not his life now is it...he all so tells our son that it's not that big a deal.I would say BE HONEST tell him that it does close some doors it is a Felony conviction and a BCD at age 18.By the way to all of you out there who will read this and think i blame the military i do not and neither does my son in fact he took full responsibility for his actions that day even though his command did not.Oh and now they are telling him he can join the army and then get back in the USMC how is that for horse shit?I heard that a special court martial w\BCD is automatic appeal is that true? Is there anything that can be done about the way the "military conducted themselves" namely the NCIS? He was told his RILA did not count for anything...why would that be? they had him on TOTAL restriction NO Privilages for 70+ days.They are sending 30+ marines to court martial No they are not babysitters but they are suppose to be leaders and commanders.The military recruite YOUNG men especially because they have no fear and they do not have life experience these qualities make them prime property however without guidence disapline they are dangerous I don't care who you are if you are over the age of 25 you are lying if you say you have not ever made a BAD CHOICE or a STUPID mistake no one walks on water.and if you are over the age of 25 you are probably not at your local recruiters office...To sit on the high tower and pass out felonies and BCD to a person age 18-22 is WRONG!Footnote:I grew up military a Col. flew in and testified on our sons behalf. it took the judge 15 min to dedide the punishment I think it was a done "deal" before it ever went to trial.His lawyer is not even wanting to discuss an appeal.Oh 1 last thing they are suppose to transfer him but they do not know how to do the paper work imagine that...Any advice? Besides "let it go"

>Any advice? Besides "let it go"

when I am pissed off I make sure many people see or hear my opinions. hence you wrote on this page. (step 1)

the other thing to do is become really successful and then write a book about how shitty the military is. (step 2 for me, still working on it)

Hi, I just found your site and I wanted to share my OTH story. I was in the Army and went through basic ok and ended up going AWOL during AIT. I had failed my first AIT and was transfered to another MOS and my depression grew and grew until the point where I was either going to off myself or leave. I decided to leave. I'm 29 now and this happened two years ago. I'm still more or less tramautized by my time in the Army and I don't know how to deal with this anymore. I'm trying to find a good job but i'm afraid of background checks turning up my OTH. This sucks because I'm college educated and a smart/nice guy but my mistake of joining the Army is really hurting me. Any advice for a guy in my situation?

anon ghost on June 18, 2005 5:52 PM

>Any advice for a guy in my situation?

Rule #1: they don't check your background

Most jobs do not check your background (for a short period of time I became a middle level manager for a large corporation. Had I not told them I was quiting I would have been in charge of Rhode Island and some operations in nearby states within 8 months of being hired. This with over 50 empoyees under me).

Rule #2: They don't check your background

I was offered the job listed on this page.

Rule #3: They don't check your background

My job that I had as a middle level manager was lined up by military recruiting specialists.

Rule #4: They don't check your background

I almost went to work for Wal Mart before getting that middle level manager position. Was fully hired on and awaiting to start in about 2 days, but that other much better job came through.

Rule #5: They don't even ask how you got out

they don't ask specifics about why you got out and are not suspecting of anything. after all. you were a sailor / soldier / blah blah blah. they get fed that same bullshit we were fed when we joined. they probably did not join and thus have respect for your sacrifices. they will not question them deeply unless you give them reasons to or ask them to do.

if they ask why you got out "I felt it was time to move on. It wasn't really what I was expecting."

Rule #6 You do not even have to lie

"I felt it was time to move on. It wasn't really what I was expecting." - when you go UA or say fuck it and do drugs this is what you are really saying anyway. they don't need to know some parts of your story unless you want to carry them on with you. if you want to carry them on, then of course thats on you and your shaddow will always follow you.

aaron, do you recommend that I put my military experience on my resume?

anon ghost on June 18, 2005 6:15 PM

I probably would.

Hey ,
I have a question. My boyfriend is a Marine and has been for two years but he's not going to reserve drill like he is scheduled to. How long will the military put up with it until they give him a discharge or punish him in some way?

Brooke Presley on June 22, 2005 10:33 AM

Can anyone confirm discharge status is *NOT* revealed in a routine background check by prospective employers?

timmy walton on June 22, 2005 10:34 AM

Everyone,

I am a single mother in the military. Approximately two months ago, I went to mast for fraternization. My punishment was reduction in rate, restriction, and a fine. However, recently, my son was forced to reside with me because his caregiver was not able to continue providing him with care. I was not prepared financially for the transition, and so many things have transpired since my son's transition. I am not able to stand duty because I refuse to have a nanny come to my home to care for my son, which is an expense I cannot afford in addition to day care fees. Therefore, I was told that if I leave during duty days I will be reported as UA and then I will be sent to mast. I was also told by one of my superiors that if I go to mast again, they will put me on restriction and I would have to find a place for my son.

I am an E-3 in the military,with a bachelors degree and a impending Master's degree--completed by March 2006, and I am living in a one-bedroom with my son. Prior to joining the military, I worked at a corporation and a law firm in the accounting field. Also, my references at these organizations are still impeccable. In addition,I was on shore duty for two years and I still maintain good references with 0-3 and 0-4's The military does not motivate me and I anticipate dread everyday before I come to work. I have more education then half of these officers and I am in a state of depression right now because so many things are occurring in my life.

Question 1: I know I will receive an OTH but how would that really affect me professionally?

Question 2: Can they put a single mother on restriction? ( I am pretty sure they cannot and they are just using that to put fear in me.)

Question 2: Would prospective employers be able to retrieve my military discharge type?


Theresa Brown on June 23, 2005 11:44 AM

Theresa Brown, please check out the info in this link:

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs16-bck.htm#2

It's for Californina but since it's federal laws, i think it would apply to all states.

anon ghost on June 23, 2005 9:52 PM

Aaron or anyone with military knowledge about general discharges......Can you answer some questions I have ? It would be greatly appreciated. Please email me back... jessienhaley@aol.com

Thanks J

I hope you guys know that it is against the law for an employer to even ask what type of discharge you got. But they will usually try a way to get it from you if they see you were discharged earlier than usual.

I am very positive that the type of discharge anyone gets is not of public record so can't be obtain through a background check. The dates of entry and discharge are of public records, but I believe the discharge is not. If I find anything on the internet backing my claim up, I will post a link.

I too have an OTH, from the Army. Being an IET soldier for 8 months drove me borderline crazy. I didn't enlist to be treated like shit for 8 months. I would rather be in prison for 8 months then the damn army, seriously. I went AWOL and it was the best decision of my life.

Proud to be free on June 28, 2005 4:51 AM

how many drug poppers in here got brig, or stockade time for poping on a pee test?

Consider the military what it is: A toy. A joke.
And move on......are you crazy!..i can,t believe you wrote this....it may be a JOKE TO YOU..but i loved the NAVY and the military way of life...its people like you that make this world like it is...i would,nt waste the 45cents it would take to put a bullet in your head.there are still some of us out there that really would give our life,s for the protection of our brothers and their family,s....and i am one of them.


better remember now days what your really fighting for.

I meant to quote that last paraghraph

Okay guys...I need some help. I just got caught up in an undercover NCIS OP, where this A$$ got in trouble...so he started seting other people up. He set-up my ex-boyfriend...but here was the flaw, he was at work so he sent me to pick up the "stuff" instead. The "stuff" they gave me was fake...so they charged me with "attemping to posses" the guy who set the whole thing up was paying for it so there was no exchange of money. They tried to get me to set-up other people but I refussed so they OTHed me and now in TPU Norfolk. Has anyone found a way to beat this crap?

Wow. So this shit is still going on. I was one of the first to get pissed out on an OTH in 1983 from the USMC. Like many of you, I had about 6 months left. Back then it took 3 positive piss tests and drug rehab before they would put you out.

I went through the naval board of appeals and they denied me, however, after I completed a drug rehab sucessfully, and stayed clean, the reserves were willing to take me back. I had two small daughters by then and turned the offer down. I can see it now, I have 2 collage degrees, in my 30's, taking orders from some kid. Yeah right. But hey, remember the old saying, "once a marine, always a marine"... I earned it by God, and I couldn't care less what anyone says. I AM A MARINE. So Semper Fi Mo Fo's, and I'll rock today with the best of em'

If any marine out there is reading this, and you need an expert rifleman, who ain't afraid to scrap with those folks "over there".... drop me a line. Forget about the OTH, and smokeing dope 20 years ago, if you need a serious man to fight. The kids are grown now.

Doug, that post is bizarre and killing people is disgusting.

How old are you?

Aaron,

Hey man. The site is awesome. I am in the Marines and I'm pretty sure I just popped on a piss test for weed. I have a pretty crappy mental background including PTSD and MDD. Do you think if i were to use these as a kind of "reason" for smoking I might be able to get maybe a general or possibly admin sep. I hope you can help. Thanks man. And thanks for the site.
-justin

I think after you used drugs they will want to screw you and anything you use as an excuse will make you that much worse of a Marine. your best bet of course is to get a bit of time to talk to a lawyer outside the military without the military knowing about it.

Chances are I'm going to pop on this drug test we just had. My whole platoon is under investigation pretty much and I know more than half could pop on this piss test. Is there a small chance if they see how many people fail if they will sweep it under the rug? The Marine Corps is hurting right now, especially in my unit. With that said, I just came back from Iraq a couple of months ago and I'm set up for a medical board in a few weeks. Anyways, if I do fail the drug test I'm going to deny everything.

I was a background investigator for a large financial firm for about a year. Basically, we just check what applicants claim. We do a local (County Court) criminal record search (unless the applicant revealed an offence, then we search the state records and sometimes run an FBI record check), call their school, if any, to verify that they really have that certificate or degree, and call their last 3 employers to see if they really worked there.

If you don't put down 'military service', nobody checks. You could even mention the discharge to HR, if they don't note it (why would they? You get background investigated after they hire you for most positions, btw) on the application, we wouldn't bother.

Zero Tolerance is Zero Intelligence - even General Patton threw kids in the brig or KP duty for a fews days, he didn't discharge them when they were drunk and disorderly in base or picked up by the MPs in town. He knew 'boys would be boys'. He winked at a certain level of it, but.

And by the way - Abu Ghraib - rural West Virginian 18-year old privates don't think of complicated and culturally humiliating ways to make Arabs unconfortable (not sure it's torture, more like hazing) by exposing their genitals to women and making them walk around naked. Somebody with a college education - or intelligence training - had showed those privates how to do that stuff. I don't think the deployment pamphlet "What to know about the MidEast" had a section entitled 'Ways to humiliate Arabs most', either.

for all of you asking questions about weather or not you will have a problem finding work with an OTH the answer is NO, Unless you list it on your application, and even then the chances of you being asked for your dd214 are slim to none becuase 99% of employers are clueless when it comes to military documents or quite frankly they just dont care. I have worked as a corrections officer and am currentley employed as a director of security for a private firm. I have had extensive background checks done on me and not once has my military service ever been an issue. The military is not for everyone, If you truly believe you have given your best effort and the military lifestyle just isnt panning out for you then by all means get out and get a real job!!!

amen

I did 4 years in the Marines and got and Honorable Discharge in 2004. I also have the GI Bill. I currently joined the Army 2 months ago and fucking hate it. I want out and want to know the best way to do it. With having my Honorable Discharge from the Marines would this help me out say if I were to go AWOL for more than 30 days and turning myself in. And will I get the GI Bill still cause I paid for it and got it while I was in the Marines. What's the best way for me to get out and what discharge would I get? Plus the GI Bill.

Hi Jason
I would not expect to find the best information for that possible over the web for free on some random site. your best bet it to talk to someone like objector.org / helping out and / or seek council.

some jobs will ask for your DD214 to verify where and what you have been doing for the past few years. One example would be truck driving. If you tell the company that your discharge papers are on file in some distant courthouse and it will take some time to retrieve the documents. They will most likely take your word for it. I spent 3 years on active duty in the Marine corps before I got hurt in the line of duty. If you get hurt in the Marine corps and you are an infantryman. You get harrased nonstop untill you are ready to take a baseball bat to everyone in the platoon. My injury was rather significant and required surgery. The navy doctor put me on a 1 year limited duty board. Throughout that entire year I was told I was a faker, limpdick, derilicter,you name it. The funny thing is my pro and con scores leading up to the injury were imaculate showing that I was an outstanding marine. As soon as I was hurt they reflected that I was an un-motivated, lazy marine. I was due for promotion but my record was stamped ELIGIBLE BUT NOT RECOMENDED FOR PROMOTION. I saw freinds that were boot to me and half as motivated being promoted beyond me. At that point I had enough. I wanted to talk to the doc about a possible medical discharge given the extent of my injury. But since I had transfered to a new unit I could not see a doc because The ortho department at the navel hospital was backlogged 3 months. At that point I cut my losses and split. I spent 63 days on the run before being apprehended. I did 6 months in the brig at lejuene(Millitary confinment is a joke) and when released I went on appelate leave untill the suits in washington hashed out my appeal. Even on appelate leave from the millitary I was able to find a job. That was 10 years ago. given the treatment I recieved while on active duty. I would go UA again if given the oppurtunity. It was the best decision I have ever made to leave that chicken shit outfit behind. I dont get medical care for the injury.The government says private employers are responsible for those they injure with workmans comp. But they dont hold themselves to there own rules.(Of course) 10 years out I am doing great. I own 2 over the road trucks and have my own 4 state authority. I would hire any ex-millitary person who excercised his own solution for getting out. Regardless of the outcome. There are employers out there who dont care even if you mention it. But most dont care as long as they dont know about it.

I forgot to mention in the post above about a certain SSG Wade. The reason I went UA in the first place. After my surgery I was given 13 days on convelescence leave to recouperate. Wade dident think I rated it so he stuck me on runner duty for the duration of the leave and since I was officially on leave. I had to pay for my own meals. But what led up to my decision to go UA was when I transfered to 3/6. Since the notations followed me from my previous unit that I was un-motivated and with low pros and cons and the unit was leaving for cax. I was assigned fire watch 4 hours on 4 hours off in there absence and untill my medical board expired. That would have been 4 months of 4 on 4 off. I lasted through 3 weeks of that before I went UA. I was brain washed from boot camp to never get my superiors in trouble and to not be an alligater. If I could go back now. I would squeel like a friggin pig. Why should you watch there backs when they could give a rats ass about you.

Joe, did you turn yourself in or did you get caught? What kind of discharge did you get? Also did you have to go back to your unit when you were apprehended or did they take you to the nearest one?

Hi Jason.. I was apprehended. They use local law enforcment to get you. Since you are a Marine they know what you are trained for and capable of. So they come get you with about 30 other officers with guns in your face. I got a BCD but that dosent mean that you would. UA under 30 days would net you batallian office hours or a summery court martial. Over 30 days will get you a special court martial and they would offer a good of the service discharge before trial.That is an OTH. I myself was a dumbass at that time. I had a freind that went awol from the army and he got an honerable discharge for claiming to be an alchoholic and they treated it as an ilness. I tried that same deffence and the corps treated me even more horrible for that. They sent me packing with a BCD. I have never tried to upgrade because I could really care less. My life is great. I am afraid if I tried that some pimplefaced officer on the board would make a snide remark like when I was in. Today I am a civillian and no longer brain washed. I would jerk him across the table and beat the living shit out of him. So I dont want to go. Back to your question. They have cross country chasers that will come get you at your local jail. You would then be taken back to your unit. you will probably be taken to the brig by your units chasers. Your first seargent has cuffs. The brig isent that bad. Its kind of relaxing compared to your unit.

I am currently trying to get my DD-214 amended. I was discharged with an Entry-Level Separation, RE-4, Narrative Reason for Separation "ALcohol Abuse." Essentially, I was in boot camp and decided I wanted out. I said I was depressed, then suicidal, and I had a problem drinking before coming in. I think they were leniant with regard to the Narrative Reason for Sep. Anyway, 5 years later and I am in the process of getting the DD-214 changed. I have done alot for myself since: graduated with honors from college with my B.S., taking grad classes, volunteer work, held employment, stayed outa trouble, etc. I think I have a good chance to get my RE code changed. I want to go in as an officer now that I have my degree. And I WILL KICK SOME FUCKIN ASS IN THERE, dont get me wrong. Every day that goes by I think about my ELS five years ago and am embarrased. I do not tell anyone and have to live with it. Unlike most of you I am ashamed of my stint in boot camp. I dont even tell employers. I am in one hiring process right now and did not disclose my ELS. I dont think they have any system where they can readily check for military records. I believe they would have to write the Archives in St Lois, right? They need the branch, dates of service and shit like that. Well, my ELS is not a dishonorable and as far as I am concerned they have no business knowing, and if they find out and dont hire me, well I'll know next time to just suck up the embarrasment and explain the stint. We'll see if there is a system they can check. Actually I fear they will pull my employment records from IRS, because there will be my W-2 from the military. But, my wanting the records change is so that I have the option of joining again, which I want more than anything. I want to be commisioned and have a respectable career. I know I have fucked up in my past but today I am a stellar person. I AM GOING TO KICK SOME FUCKIN ASS IN LIFE. That is how I feel. I also feel confident that the Board will amend my record so I can get on with my life.
I'll let all you peeps know how it turned out with the job, if I got it and stuff. And it isnt a lawn mowing job either. haha. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they dont check my employment records.

Bombardierbeetle on July 12, 2005 6:44 PM

The Marine Corps is just a fucked up place period.

DO I GET MY GI BILL IF I GOT IT WHILE I WAS IN THE MARINES AND GOT AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE. CAUSE I'M IN THE ARMY NOW AND WANT OUT AND WOULD PROBABLY GET AN OTH FOR GOING AWOL OVER 30 DAYS. I'M WONDERING IF MY HONORABLE DISCHARGE FROM THE MARINES AND WILL I STILL GET MY GI BILL I ALREADY HAVE WITH AN OTH?

Jason, you should still be elligible for tthe GI Bill because you did receive a honorable discharge. Any discharge after that will not affect that. I'll tell you this much... if you go awol, make sure it's over 30 days and do what i did... turn yourself in at Ft. Bragg Oklahoma. That's where they do the processing and you'll be out in two weeks or less. I was out in 5 days. If you're in a unit already, your mileage may vary. Good luck.

The question is Jason...How much is your GI Bill worth? If you were with the Marines for only a short time you may not be eligible for all of it, if any, despite an honorable discharge. Call veterans affairs and ask them if your previous service qualifys for the GI Bill. Think before you get desperate and go AWOL. College is a nice place to be but don't screw up with your discharge from the Army. Getting a OTH doesn't necessarily look good on your record...your better off telling them your gay and getting an Honorable, Or doing something else besides going AWOL. Think about it for Gods sake. If I were in your shoes I would get it over with and after an Honorable discharge then go to college. After college get a contractor job or a fed job that pays $100,000. Good things come to those who wait, something I have recently learned in my own life. That same philosophy goes for finding a chick too. haha
Good Luck to you all.

Bombardier on July 15, 2005 8:06 AM

i was discharged with on oth from thw marines but want to reenlist am i able to?

Sorry, I made a mistake. Go to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, not Ft. Bragg. That's in North Carolina. :P

I got an OTH in Sept. 95. 3 Captain's Masts in the Navy... 2 for fartin around.. 1 that was deserved. I was given the option during the 3rd C-mast to either receive punishment and stay in the Navy.. or get an OTH, and be lowered paygrade. The choice was easy for a freewheeling 19 year-old. GET OUT!!

I kind of regret getting the OTH.. but if I had stayed in, I'm sure I would have never gone to college, much less graduated from a 4 year university w/ honors (FSU).

To this day I would prefer the Honorable Discharge, but I can honestly say your DD214 WILL NEVER AFFECT YOU. Contrary to Army commercials, the real biz world doesn't like post military personnel. To them, a military background means a variety of things.. mostly that you graduated in the bottom of your class (if you graduated at all), or you have or had problems that required military structure. And they surely don't want to have to tell you what to do on your new job. They want people that can think on their own and can perform their job w/out having to be told what to do and how to do it.

To answer a previous post. YES YOU WILL LOSE YOUR GI BILL! Even if you paid for it, you lose it. I fought this and lost.

In closing.. If you get an OTH, yes it will stick in the back of your mind. Every national holiday (flag day, memorial day weekend, etc..) will bring back regret. But don't let it eat at you. It's not worth it.

Kevin,

I'm almost positive that the guy who posted about the GI Bill is still elligible. He has an honorable from the marines already, any discharge after this wont or shouldn't affect that.

>I'm almost positive that the guy who posted about the GI Bill is still elligible. He has an honorable from the marines already, any discharge after this wont or shouldn't affect that.

I think a bit of research needs to be done on that. Like a bad conduct discharge (which is not very common) can wipe away earlier benefits. A friend got an OTH and I believe he still got his GI benefits locked in.

If someone has researched this please do post, but we don't want to be posting a bunch of speculative I think stuff too much as we want to have a sense of certainty if possible and that issue is widespread enough that it should be easy to find the answer to.
cheers
aaron

those of you who remeber me, after poping for pot and getting recomended for a special court marshall.
its been pleaed all the way down to just an NJP, and ill get reduced one rank, mabey some resrtiction, and loss of pay. and an OTH.

i had to wave my rights to a adminastation seps board, to get the njp but hey its better than going to the brig, and loseing all pay.

im so ready to get out. all the marine corps did is made me a bitter, lonely man with no sence of myself. now that im getting out soon theres been no stressfull days at work!, i dont stay up all night tossing and turning worrieing about the next day. and ive started to come out of my shell.

i cant believe im saying this but after over six years, im finnaly happy again....

thats just so sad.

Your an idiot Aaron Wall, you were a shitbag that couldn't conform. Congratulations. Don't use the term shipmate, you are undeserving.

>Your an idiot Aaron Wall, you were a shitbag that couldn't conform. Congratulations.

if anyone forgets what people in the navy are like, this person is a perfect example. fake email and fake name and big bad words. bunch of pathetic assholes really. Tron just reminded me. Congratulations!

>Don't use the term shipmate, you are undeserving.

the word shipmate was used as a negative far more often than as a positive, if memory serves...shipmate.

i was a member of the u.s. army i did my basic at ft. benning ga, and my air borne trainig. after i was sent to ft. bragg. after all my training i started having second thoughts. i knew why i joined infantry but the cause was wrong "oil" my own drill sgt had given me adivce on how to get out so i took. on christmas exodus of 2003 i was on leave for 2 weeks but i diddnt go back when it was time. so during my awol i was in contact with my drill sgt. they told me awol for more than 31 days to become seperated from your current unit, thats when warrants are issued for your arrest,so i packed my clothe and nessecitty and I turned my self in to my nearest branch base, in my case ft.irwin out in barsto, i was there for about 5 days befor they paid for my flight to ft.seal oklahoma, while at ft. seal they ran a check on me for tickets and any arrests that may of had during the time of my awol, note: you have to stay clean while on awol, no drugs, tickets, arrests,misdominors. if anything shows up your going to the brig. well i was clean,while at ft. seal your put in the pcf unit. you fill out papper work go infront of a judge and your out, the best thing is you get to keep your benifits for 3 months after seperation, i recieved a oth but now im appealing for an entry level seperation and ill get it, if you have less 180 days in the army you can request an entry level seperation witch will upgrade to honarable in six month, it happen to me. no i work with fedral law enforcement and hangout here in beautiful san diego california life is great after the millitary, good luck to those who want out pfc. j martin

Hey j. martin, how did you get a job with federal law enforcement? I was interested in joing the police force or something law related but with my oth from the army, i'm not sure it'll fly. By the way, it's Ft. Sill, OK and it's too bad you didn't go straight there as you'd have been out in a week or less. :)

I got an OTH 9 years ago. I am doing fine financially, and the OTH has never stopped me from getting a job. I am considering going from the technology field to education. Does anybody know how extensive that background check can be? And on a background check, what does the OTH look like? Is it specific to the offense or just OTH?

I have been reading the comments from all my shipmates with OTH's and I just want to add that I too popped on marijuana. Not just once but 4 times. The first two times I was given 45-45 250 for two. The third time I was sent to NDRC in Mirimar at Fighter Weapons School, (TOP GUN). After leaving there I popped positve on the first command directed P test and was given an OTH. The military/Navy really fucked up my records and my DD 214 doesn't list my awards or the two WesPacs I made. My ESWOS was left off and all the schools I attended after I got to the fleet. All they have on there is that I went to OS A school. Although I am given credit for damn near three years of sea service. Go figure huh? Any way i thought my life would be fucked up after I got out and it was but not because I received an OTH. My life was fucked up because I believed I was what they labeled me... a fuck up. I was promoted 4 times in three years, how is that possible while being a fuck up? My life continued on a downward spiral with drugs. I started smoking opium soaked refer in the PI. In the jungle in Olongapo. When I got out I started smoking crack at Treasure Island in San Fransisco. 3 years after I got out I was in prison for dealing in stolen property. When I got out I was close to suicide. Thrown out of the Navy, a prison record for life, what was I gonna do? I stopped fucking up. I forgave myself for youthful follies and bad decisions and stopped dwelling on the fact I had two strikes against me. I went to truck driving school and got my class a cdl's and now make nearly a grand a week on a four day schedule. Not working right now because of complications with diabeties. My wife told me I should apply for disability so I did and when I went to see the Dr. he asked if I was depressed. I told him I was because of the Marines that got killed Oct 23 1983 and that I was on active duty when it happened. i told him i was an ex drug addict and that I had been sent to prison. They approved my case and now I get a check from the government every month just like I did when I was in. I live in a 4 bdrm house with my third wife and our 5 kids. She had four when I met her. So I say all that to say this. Life is not written for you. You have to decide to stop doing whatever it was that got you kicked out and do the right thing. I'm not trying to preach but it's really up tp you what happens in your life. I wear my Navy hat everyday and people just assume I am an honorably discharged veteran and I now carry myself in a way that I don't have to defend. I bought all my medals and display them eventhough I don't have the paper work to back them up. I fucking earned them! I'll leave you with this... When you stop fucking up you can come up. Fair winds and following seas shipmates. PTYOFCR2@aol.com

C.E.Jackson on July 25, 2005 5:22 AM

This is for you Aron, I owe you a debt of grattitude for this sight. I have kept these feelings inside for over twenty years. I am a vet and am proud of the service I gave this country. It has been uplifting to know I am not alone. That there are so many others lets me know I am not an undesirable. I'm not so fucking strange or wierd for having smoked pot while in uniform. I appreciate you man for this web sight.
PTYOFCR2@aol.com

C.E.Jackson on July 25, 2005 5:38 AM

HELLO, I'VE RECENTLY POSTED STUFF ABOUT BEING ABLE TO KEEP MY GI BILL FROM WHERE I GOT FROM THE MARINES WHERE I WAS HONORABLY DISCHARGED. NOW I'M IN THE ARMY AND HAVE BEEN IN 2 MONTHS AND I'M READY TO GO AWOL. I CAN'T TAKE IT NO MORE AND WILL DO SOMETHING SOON ESPECIALLY TO MY 1SG WHOM IS A PIECE OF SHIT!! IS IT THE SAFEST ROUTE TO STAY AWOL OVER 30 DAYS THEN TURN YOURSELF IN TO FORT SILL. WILL THE SAME OUT PROCESS ROUTINE HAPPEN TO ME EVEN THOUGH I'M PRIOR SERVICE MARINES WITH HONORABLE AND NOW I'M IN THE ARMY AS AN E5, BUT HAVE ONLY BEEN IN 2 MONTHS. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME. THANK YOU.

Jason the best advice I can give is call GI rights they can tell you how long you need to be awol and where to turn yourself in. Trust me there a big help. Good Luck.

I just recently received a OTH for misconduct. Will this show up on a back ground check?

To make a very long story as short as possible...
Explotion in M1A1 tank resulting in Vaporizing FRH fluid and drainage within tank; with me being trapped in the drivers compartment, inhailing and bathing in FRH! 10 min later i was able to escape through the hatch, once main gun was traversed. (Tank was near enbankment when it happened, couldnt move main gun to let me out.) 4Hrs later, after my platoon commander and CO arrive to the base camp. They hear what happened to us and order us to be taken to the training center to get showers and taken to the hospital. At this point i dont remember a whole lot, very little, until later on. (at hospital) Im awaken by doctors and nurses, they say we are ok, but have been unconcious for 2hrs or so.. continued to tell us they researched the fluid and gave us diagnosis that its possible we could have internal organ damage signs between 3-10yrs from time of inncodent... Moreover, 1.5 yrs later or so.. I am stationed at a new unit with the same Navy Corpsman from my old unit. Over time i have started to experiance health problems, such as blackouts, loss of motor control, dizzyness, complete loss of equalibrium balance. I report to Medic at my unit, looks up my medical records, low and behold NOTHING was reported and/or documented of the accident! Medic said he would look into it. I told him he better, it must be doccumented in case of future health problems etc. 2 months go by.. I ask him whats going on, he simply says "OH ya! dont worry, the stuff is harmless, it wont hurt you..." I told him, "But i still want it documented,.. he persisted that it didnt have to be... Later, continued to evaide me an ignore my requests. At this time I had enough and went AWOL due to feeling backstabbed and not trusting of the military. 3mo go by.. I get contacted by my Master Sgt. He thinks im on drugs. My mother is called by a Gunny Sgt that hates me and tells her im AWOL and extreemely suicidal (So what, isnt every Marine?) and going to kill myself. Mother panics etc... I tell her whole story.. Then she says, Gunny "fukface" said you would tell me that, he says your a lier! At this point things got very fukn weird.. I stay AWOL. Receive notices in mail that I get busted way down to pvt. I dont care! 3 more mo. go by.. Im at home on my lunch break (upstairs from work, same building) Knock at door.. THere are 5 Marines standing there.. The Gunny, Master Sgt, a Major, a Staff Sgt, and a sgt.. I was like.. Oh shit! They wanted to talk.. I told them to go to the parking lot out back. Meet them there, Master Sgt persisted that I come back to the unit and finish out my term (1yr left). I said no fkn way, explained my cercumstances about my health one last time, told them the Marines DONT want me right now, Im suicidal.. HAHA! Major was a new guy, heard about me, tried to talk me into coming back.. Said i was high speed blah blah, Marines cannot afford to lose a guy like me... Or go back to active duty.. Told him i tried that and got no respect, fk it! Anyways, the Gunny that hates me (ADMIN FUCKER) persistes that i sign some paperwork to turn in my 782 gear.. So i do no problem and gave him my gear that was packed in my trunk, which was oddly rdy to be delivered back to the unit that very coming weekend.

To this day, I do not know what kind of discharge I received, nothing.. I have stayed quiet for yrs waiting for my friends to get out, so they can help me with this and not hurt themselves by associating with me etc(They are officers and HomeLand security officers.)

What should I do? Who should i talk to? Im ready to get even! Mother fukers! My health is degenerating faster each year.. Dont have money for testing yet, but I think i got nerological damage from the accident or something. Not to mention my neck still hasnt healed right, its all messed up!

Any advise out there??

No drugs
No military offences what so ever
Extensive honerable record and achievments
Grade A Marine, up to this point


Former - 100% kick ass, rock hard - Crpl - Longo

this is for the a-ghost? when joining a police or fedral agency its not that hard. if you have an oth theres hope. depending on the reason or code # on the oth many agency can put in waivers to there superiors, that includes the police department. i would suggest go to your nearest police academy and talk to a recruiter they help you obtain waviers especially if you go through the academy and top out as one of best then you should have many strings pulled, i have buddy from the marines that got oth's now there at the police academy in chula vista ca. i hope i answered your questioned

also for jason the e-5, its going to be harder for you exit the millitary since your not an e-4 or lower. also you could be elgible for an entry level seperation, witch means if you have less than 180 days active duty you can get out on an oth, but the way you would do it, is awol for more than 32 days then turn yourself in to your local army base thel send you to fort sill, if not, just fly yourself, they have a section in the airport for awols and other returning soldier. once there you go throught the process and fill out papper work. it takes 7 days to go and get out. remember you have to awol for more than 31 days inorder to be drop from your unit, also you might have some problems because of your rank, but the sgt there are real cool. just call ft.sill request the PCF unit they answer all your questions honestly.

I HAVE TO GET OUT DUE TO FAMILY PROBLEMS. I'VE TRIED THE HARDSHIP AND GOING UP THROUGH MY CHAIN OF COMMAND. THEY DON'T CARE. I'M TALK TO JAG ON MONDAY TO SEE WHAT THE LEGAL OR BEST WAY TO GET OUT IS. I'M ALSO LOOKING INTO THE TATTOO ON THE HAND. BUT IF YOU CALL THE PCF UNIT IN FORT SILL THEY'LL TELL YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

WOW I was so happy to see this page, I was given a OTH from the Navy in 1998 for UA. I even spent 2 weeks at Miramar Brig, only as a Detaniee not a prisoner, I even got to work on the base away from the brig. This was the only negative thing in my service record, had many many positives, and accomedations made on my record, that was one thing the JAG officer told me was "good" for me. My discharge was in lieu of Court Marital, so no felony record. I had a bunch of family issues, mother was sick, father out of the country for work, and wife recovering from a Tubal Pregnancy. At any rate I am here to let anyone know that, even though I enjoyed my service I have gotten over my past and went on. I got a job 5 days after being discharged. I have been fine job wise since...unitl know..laid off...I went to school for Ultrasound Technologist, and now I am going to follow my lifelong dream to be a pilot. And I haven't ran into any issues, even with the FAA for my licence. I was accepted to a school, and should graduate in June 2006. I was a little scared about the FAA, but I learned that they pretty much like all my employeers could care less. It isn't the proudest moment in my life, but it also didn't screw anything up for me either. Of course the last medical group I worked for went out of business in May, now I am out of work. I have tried to apply for jobs with airlines, such as ground crew. But haven't had much luck....and I started to think that maybe it was from the OTH, if they and the Department of Homeland Security checks they do????? But I wasn't a security threat?!?! Well I was contacted by a airline for a possible job in AZ, so we will see what happens................Sorry for the length, but if you are out with the OTH, at least from my experiance most jobs don't care..maybe with the Drugs, Drinking they might..or for misconduct to a senior officer. Well thanks for letting me share my experiance, if anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me..thanks!!

I love the marine corps... but I also love smoking marijuanna. This isnt the first time by any means I almost got busted a few weeks ago. Should I seek help for my substance problem... or should I say fuck it and continue puffing along the rest of my enlistment?

Know a few people who were in the same boat as you Johhny. Some got away with it, some did not. It is up to you as to what risks you want to take and what you value more. If you like the military then go with that, but if you consider other things more important than persue what you really want to do.

Ultimately most advice you get off a random web page may not be the best and I don't know what decision is the best for you to take when you sound absolutely unsure what you want.

So I'm coming up on 180 days of being UA from the Marines and I was wondering if anyone has recently been through this process. Just so I can prepare myself for what I'm going to go through. Any help or storys whould be appreciated. Thx.
Great site Aaron.

are you still eligible for the va home loan if you are rewarded an "OTH"?

also, do you retain any medical benefits after you have been discharged with an "OTH"? if so, for how long?

I believe the military is full of crap. The system is based on fear and deception. I am a commissioned officer and I feel that I have to wear the uniform of this disgraceful system. For all of the enlist members who wants out, I salute to you. You guys have given your best and figure that the life is not for you. Thank you for serving, at least you tried, the Mcdonald's kid did not. I hate being in the Army and wish to resign asap.
I talked to a legal assistance for JAG(NCO). He told me that a OTH is nothing. It is not in official records nor is a crime. If you guys have any questions, I can help. I am in the Army (prior enlisted and now an officer with over 10 years) Anything to help Joe

i will add my story if or when i am discharged with my "OTH". should be coming up soon. i signed some papers for it already and now i am just waiting to go through the procedure. thanks for the great site. good stuff.

To the person that responded to my post about police work.

The reason for my OTH is that I went awol during AIT. I'm struggling to find myself and where I fit in due to depression but i'm trying to work on getting better. I did like the Army and I think the police force would be a better fit for me rather than the deplorable conditions of the Army. I'm a good person, hard working and I hate to have my life messed up by my OTH. Do you think a police recruiter would be sympathetic to my situation?

the one... I think that depends how long you were in for and if you reenlisted yet

Joe...hehehe great post. you rock

anon ghost: if deplorable conditions bother you how will you feel arresting a homeless person that is almost dead from abusing crack for a decade? how will seeing the deplorable conditions under which people live in jail effect you? how will you feel knowing that doing your job sends tons of people to jail (did you know 1 in 138 us citizens is in jail...how screwed up is that)

i was prviously in for 4yrs. discharged honorably, end of contract. then re-enlisted almost two years later. have been back in for over a year and a half and now i have popped on a piss test. will i be able to use the va home loan with my "oth"? will i retain any medical benefits after i am discharged? my wife i pregnant. baby is due in oct.

i am in the same boat along with the most of u. i failed my whizz quiz back in feb'05 for thc. the funny thing is is that i knew that i had failed when i took the quiz. i was going through a lot of financial bullshit while here in the corps and i had some times when i would just let go of everything and try to escape, such as some of you. i have been in for 3 and a half years now and i can honestly say that it was the biggest mistake that i have made in my adult life. not because i should be "chesty puller" or anything but because i have a two boys that look up to dad and i have failed as a father and a provider for my family. as most of you know, when you are processed, you recieve that wonderful "five day letter". well, i got mine last thursday; its now sunday. for those who understand what i am about to say, thank you for comprehending it. i dont feel bad for what i did, but i regret the changes that i have put myself through, as well as my family. i have to make amends with myself and be strong and move on. but i have one question and i have not got a solid answer yet. i refuse to be in the corps again, but can you re-enlist? please someone give me a solid answer. i am taking full resposibilty for my actions but i dont need some motivated ass to try to make himself or herself feel better by beating someone down more than what they all ready are. thanx.

skrewed marine on August 8, 2005 12:50 AM

Do you guys know if it is easy to got discharge for an officer. I hate my career. I do not like what the US government stands for. I found out that once you make the ranks your contract is indefinite. It sounds like mandatory jail time, totally against your will. I want to resign. Please help.

thanks for your views aaron. i'm just struggling to find a place for me in this life. :(

jj,

Oddly enough, my brother is a Captain in the Army. I'll see what he says and post back.

i have been looking for help for 7 yrs now i am glad to find you .back in 1998 i joined the army ,9 months into my contract i went awol i was on the run for 5 years before i turned my self in . i received a oth with a re-code 4. how can i get back in the army with a re-4.most recruiters wont even bother talking with me when i mention my re-4 .

All of you guys who still want to be in the service after your mistreatment from the services are DUMB. You are out already. Get a real job with a real salary. Why try to reenter an institution that treats you like a sub human with no rights? Cherish that you are a human being again. There are many service members in Iraq and elsewhere who wish they were in your shoes. They did not have the opportunity to get discharge yet. Listen, you get out already, you are really lucky. You are not force to fight for oil

old soldier on August 9, 2005 7:57 AM

Listen up guys,
I have been in the service (AD and reserve) for more than 11 years. I am working on my discharge. I want to let you know that you guys are out already. I am wishing to get discharge. You guys want to reenter jail(service dept) while I demand to be released. This is so ironic. The Army and government lies a lot. After I signed my life away is when I realize my recruiter lie to me about my terms in service and training. In the Reserves they say that you are todeployed to a maximun of 6 months(yeah right)ask the Reserves and National Guard now in Iraq( about over one year and one half)Some of them get redeployed. The highest suicide and divorce rate in the Nation is the Army. Ironically, the Army praise on moral and commitment to family member needs, discriminate you if you are gay and added the stop loss program (back door draft) I want to say thanks to Aaron about this web. It gives me the freedom to express my opinion(something that the military can court martial you for)

reserve soldier on August 9, 2005 8:15 AM

The funny, in a rather disturbing way, universal truth throughout the military is that if you want to get out, the military keeps you in, while if you want to stay in, the kick you out. A buddy of mine, who I didn't agree with tried to re-enlist and they kicked him out for diebeeties(yeah, I just murdered the word, I'm drunk, fuck off). Now they let him star re-enlist with this condition but suddenly they decided he had to get separated after 8 years. Another guy, after his second trip to NA, not AA fucking Narcotics Annyonmus, the bastards made this waste of space due the full 4 years with him not qualifying to push a fucking broom. I give up! Who do these Bastards want? I want a diggit to come and explain this shit to me!

To JJ,

I spoke to my brother and as I said, he's a captain in the Army. He said that if you're a LT, there's no way you can resign. Even he can't resign although he has the right to, they will not honor it due to the war in iraq. You're pretty much stuck for the full 8 years unless you can find the right asses to kiss.

my name is eric s. and since my discharge i have been wandering the streets hoplessly with no luck of a job,( iam writing this letter from a public library and i have to be quick the librarian is looking at me strange) i have been collecting cans and have been sleeping at homeless shelterscan anyone help an ex- saylor out?? life on the streets has been rough, a man can only take a shower so many times in a public pool.....

will work for food on August 13, 2005 1:58 PM

Is it true what the GI Rights hotline says about going AWOL for over 30 days and turning yourself in to Fort Sill that you'll be discharged? If anyone knows some info on this or whom else to contact, please let me know. I want out of the Army!!!!

you are all losers for getting kicked out of the military i hope you never make anything of yourselveS...LOSERS!!!!!! LOWLIFE PEICES OF CRAP

I joined the Army in '03 spent 6 months in and got booted in AIT before I was shipped to darmstadt.
I popped coke on the piss test was addicted and continued to use it for about another 2-3 weeks and popped about 3 more tests. got confinement in a comfortable little grey cell. I got an OTH in lieu courtmartial. How do I get to where I can join the Police? or is that a lost cause? it's the only thing on my record, I have no convictions in the civilian world

Hey joe nave... i didn't get kicked out of the Army, I quit.

this message is to ken and all you other losers that got kicked out of any military branch for being a crackhead..ken first off you are writing this letter at 1230 a.m. you are probably fucked up on coke having one of those " pipe dreams" but in your case "line dreams" of becoming a cop or having a decent job in life...well buddy you fucked up...you rode the white pony and now its fucking you in the ass...."i want to be a cop" they might as well have made rick james a cop if they wanted a crackhead...you need to walk to the bathroom and look in the mirror and say out loud "i'm a cokehead" three times so it sinks in and you dont get your hopes up, then drive to the nearest ghetto and walk a couple of blocks til you find some black guy that you are gonna be sucking off for coke, (most likely rock cuz your gonna be a bum, and thats what bums do) and get used to your new life, as a cock sucking bum

joe navy(ken crusher) on August 15, 2005 2:03 PM

man for joe saylor you seem real patriotic, you come on here and type a bunch of bull shit, look at your self you pop eye the salorman fag, talking about blowing off black guys, what a dam shame, your the reason why the navy is portrayed as a fag branch, you and your battle buddy should go fuck your self untill you relize that your nothing but a navy bitch mopping the deck for a shitty as pay grade of E-1, way to make your country proud "pop eyed the salor man"

JASON I went through the same thing your going through, i wanted out of the army, you have to awol for more than 31 days inorder to be dropped from your current unit, also turn your self in to your nearest army base not any military base. also at ft.sill you wil be placed in PCF unit, you be there for no more than 7 days, unless you have any tickets or convictions then you will have problems. also its not a brig its barracks that your placed in with other solider who want out, every one there is real lay back its not like boot camp, also when you turn your self in take some change of clothe, toothbrush ect... once your there they provide you with the standard military BDU during the processing most people smoke all day, clean, work out, or fuck off at the px, it not so bad its just hard beleaving pepoles statements, well mine really true, also you can call ft.sill and they explain to you the process. i hope i help you let me know which way you go at your situaion.

j martin retired OTH soldier on August 15, 2005 4:34 PM

J. Martin you jarhead fuck that could not hack it out in the military, i may be a sailor man ( look how you spelled it you illiterate fuck) "salor" no wonder you joined the army, they saw you coming from a mile away and reeled you in with your poor grammar, and now you say you work for law inforcement, doing what?? you cant even spell right, do you clean the cells out every night or something, maybe shine boots, then you have the nerve to talk about my branch of service, when poor old pussy boy j. martin had to go awol cuz he was a disgrace to his country, and to hiself....shut the fuck up and stop sticking up for your bouyfriend ken you bitch

joe navy(j. martin roasting time) on August 15, 2005 4:43 PM

J. Martin you jarhead fuck that could not hack it out in the military, i may be a sailor man ( look how you spelled it you illiterate fuck) "salor" no wonder you joined the army, they saw you coming from a mile away and reeled you in with your poor grammar, and now you say you work for law inforcement, doing what?? you cant even spell right, do you clean the cells out every night or something, maybe shine boots, then you have the nerve to talk about my branch of service, when poor old pussy boy j. martin had to go awol cuz he was a disgrace to his country, and to hiself....shut the fuck up and stop sticking up for your boyfriend ken you bitch

joe navy(j. martin roasting time) on August 15, 2005 4:43 PM

i had to get back on here and just tell you j. martin that they have a lot of programs that teach you how to spell, when i look back at the comments you left me i see about 10 mistakes " who learned you how to spoke" you hillbilly what did you do in the army stand a gate post?

joe navy(realizing that j. martin needs hooked on phonics) on August 15, 2005 4:50 PM

ANON GHOST well its your turn buddy.....as i scroll up the pages of all these loser stories of pussies, i see yours, "im depressed" hahahah "i didnt get kicked out i quit" what a fag.... and you want to be a cop? you cant even serve your country let alone your city, your depressed you said it yourself, what are you going to be chasing someone and stop and fall to the ground crying? go kill yourself you pussy otherwise shutup

joe sailor(anon ghost you need a zoloft pill you depressed fuck) on August 15, 2005 6:24 PM

to Adam,
take the court marshall if possibl, why? like you said it is not elegal if you had no knowledge, im not sure the navy marine corps order but i know thats the case. one of my staff nco's did acualy use speed, went to court marshall wit ha statement from his wife that said she was pissed at him and as a result slipped the drug in his coffe, the case was thrown out. to anyone else who is up on oth for urinalisis, remeber this. and dont forget that for the most part employers dont even care, chances are today they smoke when they go home, plus they have no way to check why you got that discharge, and remeber you can get oth through med discharge as well. you all had the balls to serve so fuckem if they dont want you anymore. fact is you just got promoted to civilian, now everyone in has to call you sir

I have a question for you military lawyers. (I didn't mean that sarcasticly) I have a brother that joined the army pre 9/11 and went awol also pre 9/11. He was in the reserves and playing in the Army band. One weekend he refused to go to drill and hasn't been since 9/11. He's afraid to come back to this country because he thinks he'll be arrested at the airport and face life in prison or the firing squad for being a deserter during a time of war. Does anyone have an idea what he may be facing if he comes home and turns himself in?

Arron,
I have to say that your site is great. Although I was Honorably discharged in May 2005 alas, I am here. My boyfriend is an E-5 in the Navy and he confessed to me that he did coke Sunday before last. Well sadly, there was a command sweep on Monday morning needless to say he already knows he is screwed with a possible OTH but can you appeal that while you are still active duty? Also,he has served 4yrs prior to this enlistment he did an immediate reenlistment meaning he recieved an honorable discharge certificate but, no DD214 can he still get his VA benefits? please write back at txsweetheart81@comcast.net

I just wanted to say I am so sorry for mispelling your name Aaron. :) Keep up the good work. And Thank you in advance to your generous advice. Take Care.

well sadly to say kristin your boyfriend is 1. fucked and 2. a crackhead...he is on the roosevelt i presume due to the time estimates you left...he will get an oth, that is all, oh wait and a bus ticket and a free ride to the gate where just a short walk will lead him to oceanview(that is a good spot to start his life as a crack smoking bum) and maybe you would be able to swing by there at night and see him seliing himself for dope, also tell him i said how proud i am to be in the same branch of service as him, and i will laugh very hard to see him walking outside the gates.....pick your men wiser next time kristin, you might as well have been going to a homeless shelter showing your body off, now your gonna be supporting a guy that wont even be able to get a decent job EVER in life, i hope this letter sees you well

joe navy(kristin your mans a crackhead) on August 16, 2005 1:37 PM

joe navy is tough, man that guy knows everything. Good luck joe navy your a stud..probably a lame ass e1 fresh outta high school. Scrub some decks boatsman mate woosterj, and stop posting advice. You dont know shit about the real world.. sorry you got so many wedgies in high school TOUGH GUY.

i also scroll up looking for your loser story of your anti-military whining and your pussy story of why your not in the military but i cannot find it....from the look of your poor spelling (boatsman mate?) you were probably in the army? am i right? and i got wedgies in high school? man you fag, i am just here to let people know that they fuck there life up after disgrace themsevles by getting kicked out of the military, so fasty 77 go fuck your mother you bitch

joe navy (faggy 77 this is for you) on August 16, 2005 5:06 PM

c. jackson.........tell your trader of a brother that he might as well have been flying those airplanes into the twin towers he is a disgrace to his country..."the army reserves band" what a joke...was that to tough for him? what a fuckin pansy...tell him to stay gone...our country is better without him.....he should go play the skin flute in iraq

Joe Navy,
I can appreciate your views and support your right to express them. You no doubt are a repeat sailor of the year and one of the Navy's proudest. I can't defend the choices my brother made, he has to live with those decisions for the rest of his life and people like you will always be around to remind him of how badly he fucked himself by doing so. That's what makes this country so great. We allow assholes like you to express themselves without any consiquences. You are safe hiding behind the internet while you spout your hatred and degridation upon others. In many ways you are like the terrorist we fight against everyday. Your anninimity allows you to hurt others while keeping your identity well hidden. Not one of those bastards has the balls to face those they hate face to face and only attack those who are least able to defend themselves. You have no honor, pride or espirit de corps. you are a spineless parasite who enjoys hurting those already hurting. You are a mental terrorist and I support your right to be so. i have been deployed twice and placed in harms way once and it has taught me one thing I want to share with you. Of all the people you have ragged on you have never given one piece of helpful advice based on your personal experience. That means like those who mindlessly attack this country you are affiliated with them in your desire to hurt those that have proven to be imperfect. People make mistakes and unfortunately there are those like you who take advantage of those mistakes by rubbing their face in it. What sick joy do you derive from that Joe navy? What in that pea brain of yours finds joy in the sufferung of othres? What is the difference between you and those we fight against who harm physically, mentally and emotionally those who have done more to themselves than you ever could? What purpose do you serve when you take the weak to make yourself appear to be strong? I bet you've never held the hand of a marine who lost his legs right up to his penis and has a young wife he will never be able to please again. Have you ever spent time at a VA hospital with a 21 year old who will wear a shit bag on his side for the rest of his life because an RPG blew a hole in his HUMVEE. I wonder if you know how to console a fellow sailor who lost his best friends in a surprize attack on his ship by those who find joy in hurting others. now you feel justified in attacking my brother whom you've never met simply because at 19 he made a fucked up decision and now upon further reflection seeks an avenue to undo that mistake. What an asshole/ hypocritt you are. If subjected to what some of these men have been through you would probably shit your pants and get discharged on a psyche undesirable. It's easy for you to judge these men because you feel safe onboard a ship and will never have to make that terrible decision to get up from behind the safety of your hiding place and risk your life to save a wounded soldier, sailor or airman. So stay safe Joe Navy. Keep hiding your true feelings of cowardice and continue to attack those weaker than you. But when you put on that uniform remember to wear the turbon of your true commrads. The enemies of this country who pray on those least able to defend themselves, that's the sign of a true terrorist. It's people like you who made Stalin, Hitler and Tojo so popular 60 years ago. This country is made up of all types, some stronger than others some weaker. You aren't a predator, you're a scavenger sitting in a dead tree waiting for those to die someone else mortally wounded. When you look in the mirror do you see an American or a hate filled wanna be who has never and probably never will do anything more than wear the uniform others have died in to give you the opportunity to pick on the weak. You are a real big man all by yourself. But in a room of real men you are an undercover fag, fucking those wounded souls who don't have the strength to turn over and look into the eyes of their real enemy. I was in and now am going back in thanks to some waivers granted me. I hope we run into one another on a bright shiney day in the middle of a crowd so others can see what must be done with people like you who hate for no God given reason. I would look you in the eye, explain what every ribbon on my uniform is for and kick your fucking ass for each shipmate i've burried, each Marine that lost what we all hold most precious and the airman who went back for that dead serviceman who we all would refuse to leave behind. We'd even go back for your sorry ass no matter how much shit you had packed in your skivvy's. It's not about the things we fucked up Joe navy, it's about the things we can make right with the time we have left. Get your shit together and stop hurting others for no reason shipmate.

Hi Kristen
depending how much water they drank, how much drugs they used, and when they did em, etc they may still get away with doing coke. I know some people who did drugs the morning of a test (about 8 hours before the test) and still passed

and Joe Navy you are a scumbag.

c. jackson i see i hit a soft spot, and that brings a smile to my face...look at how long you wrote, its so damn funny, as i read your letter i laugh out loud, as to how much i angered you...but one thing still stays the same amongst all of this YOUR BROTHER IS A PUSSY MOTHERFUCKER THAT WAS IN THE "ARMY RESERVES BAND WENT AWOL DURING A TIME OUR COUNTRY NEEDED HIM THE MOST AND HE IS STILL GONE and you have the nerve to cal me a coward? all your brother had to do was go in twice a month and his sorry spineless ass coudlnt even do that, play a fucking instrument man what a fuckin pansy....and then here you go with your oscar written performance, of holding hands at a va hospital this, and my brother is a coward that, shut the hell and try to sell your little stroies somewhere else you loser, i wish we could line your brother up, and have all the people that lost love ones in 9/11 come and spit in his face, because thats what he did to them, he turned his yellow back on our country he is in the FUCKING RESERVES FOR CHRIST SAKES, THE ARMY BAND!!! what kind of fuck goes awol from that?? so to sum it up c. jackson...your BROTHER IS A PUSSY I HOPE HE DIES A PUSSY...

p.s. Kristin your boyfriend is going to pop dont let anyone tell you other wise...i just had a buddy kicked out after he did coke three days before the test and just had four nanograms ove the cutoff so dont let these people lie to you...call me JOE NAVY...THE 13TH DESCIPLE I BRING THE TRUTH IT MAY HURT BUT THATS YOU FAULT

joe navy(c. jackson your brother is still a trader) on August 17, 2005 1:30 PM

Joe Navy
I will only allow one more of your incorrect asshat posts before I start deleting all of them. use it wisely.

PS: I did not lie when I stated some people use drugs the same day as they passed a piss test.

WELL AARON YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPIT ON THE VERY FUNDAMENTALS THAT LET THIS COUNTRY BE FREE THE 1ST AMMENDENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH...HOW CAN YOU TAKE THAT AWAY? I AM JUST HERE GIVING MY OPINION LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, THAT IS ONLY FAIR.....AND KRISTIN YOUR BOYFRIEND IS GOING TO POP....I SEE IT HAPPEN EVRYDAY....SO PLAN AHEAD NOW

JOE NAVY(IM BACK) on August 17, 2005 2:02 PM

>WELL AARON YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPIT ON THE VERY FUNDAMENTALS THAT LET THIS COUNTRY BE FREE THE 1ST AMMENDENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH...HOW CAN YOU TAKE THAT AWAY?

how ignorant sounding is that? can I just go into the white house and call the president a fucking scumbag... or congress and do it? whenever I please?

you come onto my site and use voracious language to try to make yourself feel important and make others feel bad. I can let it stand, but my job is to make this page useful.

if all the posts just go back and forth and say asshole asshole asshole the posts may be about you, but they would derail the point of the page.

add value or go elsewhere.

I am not taking away anyone's 1st ammendment rights. you can create joe-navy-dig-it-judgemental-asshole.com
and spout off freely there, I just have little or no time for it here.

on a side note, I bet the president would have popped on many drug tests had he been given the opportunity. in theory you can be one of the biggest fuck ups the military has ever seen and still do plenty well for yourself

well i am writing to retort, i feel obligated to my country to spout out freely and i will do so, this is a public site, [and seeing that the site is not entirely public, and that Joe is and annoying asshole, his ignorance was just edited by Aaron, the wonderful owner of this site]

joe navy(aaron i am taking over this site) on August 17, 2005 5:21 PM

Hey Navy Blue Joe,

I posted these events a wile back but why dont you a cherry seaman that has never been to any type of physical firefight in his life take a look at real life in the military. You might think I am a trader too. But you know what I did what I had to do to survive. You would know nothing about that. Oh and enjoy you nice bed you sleep in every night. I know you never spent more then a week in the field. Joe you want to know the sad part, when it's all said and done even with all the bad things that happened, I accomplished more in the military then you ever will.

The summer of 2004 I received an OTH discharge for the U.S. Army. I know that the Army is not for everyone. I was stupid and I chose to be an Airborne Infantry Paratrooper. Talk about a hard Army experience. From the first day that I arrived at my unit I had problems with E-4ís telling me an E-3 what to do. In addition, I could not stand the fact that I had to stand a Parade Rest for E-4ís (Specialists). I canít even remember how many times the E-4ís preformed corrective training on me. Sometimes the E-4ís would make me do exercises till I would pass out. They always made sure to hydrate me with an I.V., and once the needle came out, it was back to more exercises. Life was hell for me. So our Unit gets the call to become part of Operation Freedom IV. My unit and I deploy. Now why they allowed me to deploy after all the issues I had, I will never know. Wile I was deployed I got to do some really cool things, and the E-4ís were being a lot nicer to me; probably because I now had a loaded M4. Then one night I was pulling PUC (Person Under States Control) guard. By the way a PUC has no rights under Geneva Convention. The PUC is the militaryís dark little secret, but back to what happened. I was guarding this PUC. He was in very sad shape; he had been all shot up. The E-4 that was guarding the PUC with me gave the PUC a cigarette. I kind of felt bad for the PUC, knowing that he was going to be executed. So several hours later the PUC signals to me that he would like a cigarette. Please note that I had been smoking in front of him all night. I gave the PUC a lit cigarette. Well anyway I got caught. I do not know how, but my team leader knew. I kept my mouth shut. I did not tell that the E-4 on the guard shift with me gave him one first.

Now this is when my life becomes a real hell. Things start flying down hill for me. I was put in a different Platoon within my same company. I continue to conduct missions with my new platoon between smoke sessions. Several nights later I was call into my Platoon sergeant SFC Adamsís tent. Prior to entering the tent my M4 was taken from me by my squad leader SSG Elridge. Now I am inside of the tent and SSG Elridge is guarding the only entrance/exit to the tent. Itís just SFC Adams and me in the tent. SFC Adams starts pushing me around. All I can do is try my best to stand a Parade Rest. That evening my platoon sergeant, SFC Adams makes it clear to me, if I go on another mission with his platoon he will see to it that I will not return. Without any question in my mind I knew if I went out on another mission with him I was going to die. The following day our platoon was called up for a mission that would be conducted that evening. Please note I am not a bitch, but I was scared for the first time since I entered Afghanistan. I was called into my commanderís tent. My commander CPT Condrey was holding a piece of paper in his hand. Then CPT Condrey asks me if I would be joining my platoon on the mission that was to be conducted this evening. I didnít know what to say. By the way SFC Adams is also in the tent. I look around the room and SFC Adams is staring at me almost like he is looking through me. Finally after several minutes I caved, and told CPT Condrey that I would not join my platoon on the mission this evening. Then CPT Condrey looks at the piece paper in his hand and starts reading it to me. What do you know itís my rights. The son of a bitch had a piece of paper in his hand the whole time with my rights on it.

About a month later I got Court Marshaled inside of the dining facility tent without a lawyer. Please note it was only a Summary Court Marshal, so the Army is not required to provide me with a lawyer. I donít know but any Court Marshal in a tent on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan seems a little bit shady to me. Anyway they hit me with about 12 charges. I beat about half of them. In the end I got the maximum sentence of a Summary Court Marshal. Lose of all rank wow I went from private (PFC/E-3), to private (PV1/E-1), I lost 2/3 of one monthís pay, and I got 30 days confinement. For me it was a real treat to leave Afghanistan and go to Manheim Military Prison in Germany. I remember one of the questions they ask me on the evaluation when I got to the Prison was how do you feel about being confined here. I looked up at the Sergeant and told him I was happy to be here. No more bullets firing at me, no more nightly rocket attacks, and best of all I get three hot meals a day. I did my time, and I was sent back to my stationed base. Several months later I was chaptered out of the Army with an OTH discharge. Thankfully I was discharged prior to my unitís return. I really would like to get my discharge upgraded. I think maybe if I write a book in vivid detail maybe I can get some political support. I think a good name for the book will be Inside Conclusions Lead to Political Resolutions. I wrote this because knowledge is the key and the more people know the better.

So Navy Blue Joe I don't even whish these event on a shitbag like you

Anti-political Agenda

Anti-political Agenda on August 18, 2005 9:42 AM

Aaron Wall please let joe respond to me i want to hear what a seaman like him has to say about Unforgiving Reality.

Anti-political Agenda on August 18, 2005 10:14 AM

ANTI,
Damn that was a tough story and hey there is nothing i can say to that one...i would have done the same thing...i am only coming to this website to reply to the people that dog the military for their own fuckups...popping on a piss test and going awol....in your case that is a whole nother story....and here you are talking shit to me..."i sleep in a nice bed every night" whose choice was it to be a fucking paratrooper and join the fucking army anyways? so dont dog me because i am getting paid the same amount to be on a ship...i made the smart choice...so when it is all said and done i still have a life and you are a stupid fuck with an oth....so go and sell your sob-story that you most likely caked up(any smart person would have brought up the fact that you were threatened by a superior)and try to see if you can sell that hogwash to some shitbag writer....eat a dick and i hope you work for minimum wage your whole life you fuckup

to those who stumbled upon this page thinking of joining the military (and yes I can get the page to rank for that if I want to - as that is what I do for a living)

those of you reading Joe Navy's words realize that if you join the military those vile disgusting words from judgemental scumbags are not uncommon.

Joe freely speaks for the entire military system when he says he wants people to be fucked for life...if you join the military you may end up fucking up your mind.

I hope joe navy doesnt get banned from this sight, hes my new hero. I did my military time with alot of gung ho dudes like you.. mainly punks that have never been out of their own state prior to the military, but studs like you who knew everything. I know my spelling sucks, but I know for a fact that I earn way more than you do.... (what maybe 1700.00 a month to bunk up with a bunch of other dudes, run damage control exercises all day, work insanely long hours at sea with no overtime pay, oh and get missles lauched at your ships, sounds like your the smart one. "Accelerate your life" toughguy, and "dont ask dont tell" joe blow.

fasty77( joe navy/joe blow is tough) on August 19, 2005 3:26 PM

I was in the US Army for 9 1/2 years had a flawless career got in trouble with the civilian police on a not military related issue and they fucked me with a (OTH) other than honorable discharge i was going to fight it while i was still in but was told if i do the Army will prosicute me as well


JIM

To qoute a person that thinks he is perfect, "joe navy(c. jackson your brother is still a trader)" My favorite part is where he attempted to spell the word "traitor". I find that entertaining. Anyways, to get on with my real reason to post here. I am currently in the Navy and at one point I thought it would be the greatest thing to happen in my life. I was wrong. I realize now how corrupt my superiors really are. The CO calls in about every day and tells us that he won't be in due to "family-related" issues. I'm Active Duty but stationed at a Reserve Center in Wisconsin. All of the 1st Class Petty Officers that work with me in my Command swear they know everything about everything. So, when I know they are wrong and I use my job-related references (MILPERSMAN) to prove them wrong, they claim I cannot second guess their authority because they are "1st Class Petty Officers in the United States Navy" and I'm just an E-2 (Seaman Apprentice). So, from what I've gathered within the last year of my service is that I cannot prove anyone wrong, whether they are wrong or not, due to my low rank and therefore low importance in the world of military life. But of course I would be expected to save a person like this if for example they were drowning or had been wounded. Now who in their right mind would save some jack-ass like my co-workers or Joe Navy? I would not. Which gave me the impression that maybe I'm not qualified to be in this wonderful (Sarcasm!) military. I cannot see myself saving someone that is drowning when the day before they were taking enjoyment and a sense of power by belittling and emotionally abusing me. An example is the YN1 at my Command saying that had I been her exact age and joined the exact time she did, I would still be lower rank than her because she is obviously better than I am. What kind of bullshit is that? Only in the military could someone say something like that to another human being and not get in trouble for it because again, she is a 1st Class Petty Officer which means she is better than I am in every way. I disagree. I am 10 times the person she is because I have atleast some respect for people. All I'm basically asking is what is the quickest way to get out? I want out now, and I don't want it to take 3, 4, or 5 months of my life going though trials and signing paper work. I want out and I want out now, before my life can sink lower than it is. Please give me some advice on how to quickly end this bullshit.

WELL J. KELLEY....YOU HAD TO TALK CRAP HUH?...LETS SEE YOU ARE AT A RESERVE BASE AS AN E-2 WHICH EASILY TELLS ME THAT YOU ARE ARE A MILINGERING PEICE OF CRAP UP THERE BECAUSE OF A HEALTH ISSUE OR JUST BECAUSE YOUR PUSSY IS SORE..AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO TALK CRAP TO ME.???YOU ARE WORKING SHORE DUTY YOU PEICE OF SHIT...YOU DONT EVEN KNOW THE NAVY....YOU HAVE IT MADE OVER THERE AND YOU WANT OUT....GO AND TELL YOUR LPO HOW MUCH OF A FAGGOT YOU ARE(YOU WONT BE LYING) AND YOU WILL GET OUT...SO IN THE MEAN TIME...HAVE A NICE TIME SLEEPING IN YOUR BARRACKS AND SUCK A COCK YOU POOR EXCUSE FOR A SAILOR...GO KILL YOURSELF AND MAKE US PROUD

I love it how Joe claims to be some hot shot in the Navy but he made a comment on my post within three hours of me posting it. What it looks like is he's a fag with no life that defends all of his precious superiors by allowing them to anal rape him with no lubrication while he sits on this page and constantly refreshes the page until someone posts something so he can then relieve his built up tension of getting ass reamed by his beloved Chiefs by spouting off bullshit because he's so dissatisfied with his life. We all know it's "The needs of the Navy". So me being sent to a Reserve Center doesn't mean I'm injured. I'm guessing they needed a PN because I am, afterall, a PN. So they sent me where they needed me. So shut your cum-guzzling mouth. Pitiful excuse for a man. Go drown yourself in the cum that you swallow.

I check this site once a fuckin day you fuck...what the fuck are you doing to see i wrote back....you are on that base because of some reason not that you are a pn...im a abh you pussy...you do sea duty first.."i cant stand it here, im a pn, i sit at a desk all day on my perfect little shore duty" shut the fuck up and give me your moms address so i can bust in her and let her give birth to a kid with balls, you fucking disgrace...i am gonna contact your command and tell them about this site you pussy so you can get fucked for this...i wish i could slap your mother for going nine months of holding a shitbag like you in her womb....i am an e-2 and try to correct e-5's your such a cocksucker...you have no idea whatsoever, how it is to do a deployment you pansy....so leave your moms number so i can front the bill to have her tubes tied...you bitch

omg, he's an abh! that explains everything! handlers think they are Gods gift to the navy. way to go there guy. have fun moving planes and i hope no one accidently pushes you overboard.

J Martin OTH RETIRED, so you were in the same boat I was and went AWOL for over 30 days? So this works then? When did you do this? Can you e-mail me at worthenja2000@yahoo.com and provide me some info on this? Anyone on here please tell me this works and how to do it and give me your stories. Thanks.

>I'm Active Duty but stationed at a Reserve Center in Wisconsin. All of the 1st Class Petty Officers that work with me in my Command swear they know everything about everything. So, when I know they are wrong and I use my job-related references (MILPERSMAN) to prove them wrong, they claim I cannot second guess their authority because they are "1st Class Petty Officers in the United States Navy" and I'm just an E-2 (Seaman Apprentice). So, from what I've gathered within the last year of my service is that I cannot prove anyone wrong, whether they are wrong or not, due to my low rank and therefore low importance in the world of military life.

Posted by: JOE NAVY at August 20, 2005 05:15 PM
Posted by: joe navy at August 20, 2005 04:24 PM


Once a day, right? That looks like twice to me you sorry shit stain, and they're not even two hours a part. You can't even lie as well as other Navy members. We know you'll never be a recruiter. Are you really in the military or just a flake that works at McDonalds and lives with your mom? "All of the 1st Class Petty Officers that work with me in my Command swear they know everything about everything. So, when I know they are wrong and I use my job-related references (MILPERSMAN) to prove them wrong, they claim I cannot second guess their authority because they are "1st Class Petty Officers in the United States Navy" and I'm just an E-2 (Seaman Apprentice)." You moron, I was talking about 1st Class Petty Officers and you said E-5. E-5s are 2nd Classes you spineless prick. You represent the Core Values of the Navy. The honor of belittling other people. The courage to do it over the internet. The commitment to get reamed in the ass and still have a smile. I salute you and your loose asshole. Bravo-zulu shipmate, for a job well done.

JASON look on this page for my story, it explaines everything, I did this in march of 05 but remeber to turn your self in to your nearest army base not navy, marines, or air force, it has to be an army base or your going to be there for a while untill army mp come for you and there not in a rush eaither. some army base's can out process you from the base that you turn yourself in, all i can say is dont awol too long like 180 after that your going to levens worth, good luck call this number and ask for mrs. willams ask her how to out process she should explaine to you honestly, 580-442-3112

if you want to get back in file for a new social security card and keep shut once in 3-6 mos present to an official judge you security clearence and show him you prior service records you are already accepted back it will look bad on them to kick you out for descrimination

Hi,
My fiancee enlisted in the army and "did not adapt to the military lifestyle." He is extremely depressed and wants out. He is still in basic (week 8 of 14). He's at Fort Benning in Georgia. I just found out today from his commander that he is being granted an els. That's excellent news!! I think. Can anyone give me more information on the ELS (Entry Level Separation) procedure? Do you know anyone who has been through it that I could speak to? I've heard the time from when you get the discharge to when you actually get out is painfully long and could put him into worse depression. Please let me know if you have any information. Thank you so much.

Rebecca Abel on August 24, 2005 10:42 PM

Hello!! i was discharged in october 2004, i had joine din Oct 2001, i had failed a piss test after going UA for 3 days, they gave me 60 days restriction for UA, and 60 restriction for poppign the piss test, i did 120 consecutive days of restriction, and i feel they only kept me onboard that long is because i was an engineer, a very good engineer as a matter of fact, no prior reports filed against me, and averaged a 3.8 on my last eval.... but i did my time, and got the boot and i couldnt be happier, i am now a police officer, so you know what, nobody, and i mean nobody actually checks for your "real" discharge, becasue it doesnt say it on my dd214, they just took my word for it.

and to the woman above me, about the ELS, you arnt "actually" in the military till you graduate boot camp, Entry level discharge will be like he was never even there...(poof) forgotten, life goes on, enjoy your hubby!

Okay guys here is my storie. I was in bootcamp and I couldn't hack it. The Navy life was for me but i couldn't get over my arrogance. I made a 79 on the asvab and quit half way thourgh the thing. My recruiters busted there ass to get me up to great lakes and i thought that the navy was going to bust there ass to keep me beacause i am smart. But before i knew it i was getting a re4 and seprated from the navy. This happened 3 months ago. Now i am back at home looking for a job. But for anyone who wants to get back in there is a way. You can go into the army national gaurd the go active if you want. This is th course of action i am taking. The recuirter is waiting for me to call him and come in. So guys there is a way if you want to go back in. And Arron thanx for creating a site like this. But for all the people who got kicked out for ua I have no sympathy for. If you knew what you were doing then you deserved to get out. But if you didn't then i am sorry that you gor a raw deal. Also for some people the military is the only option for them to better there selves and there lives. Some people may think it's shit and at some parts it is, but for me it's a way to provide for my mom and my wife to be.

Calvin Jones on August 27, 2005 4:41 PM

LISTEN TO ME, I WAS IN FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS,
IF YOU ARE ALREADY OUT OF THE SERVICE YOU ARE LUCKY. WHY TRY TO GET BACK IN JAIL AGAIN,(MILITARY). ARE YOU REALLY NUTS. CIVILIAN LIFE IS MUCH BETTER, BETTER FREEDOM, MONEY, MORE TIME WITH FAMILY, BETTER LOOKING WOMEN. WHY WOULD SOMEONE TRY TO RE-ENTER JAIL. WHY BE PATRIOTIC IF YOUR PRESIDENT IS A DUMB ASS, WITH A LOW IQ( I HATE REPUBLICANS) AND HIS ADMINISTRATION IS KILLING INNOCENT IRAQIS FOR OIL. THE WAR IS BASED ON FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND TREATS/FEAR ON THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. I WAS IN THE SERVICE FOR 10 YEARS AND I GLAD THAT I AM OUT. FUCK THE MILITARY AND THE PRESIDENT AND HIS ADMINISTRATION. IF CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT SEND THEIR DAUGHTERS AND SONS TO IRAQ ,THEN AND ONLY THEN, I WILL LEAD THEM INTO BATTLE.

I was in the coast guard when i was 19yrs old. I got busted for pot. Got a JKK and a RE4. Since then i have went on to graduate college and obtain a high paying job. I am interested in getting back in the service.Possible the Army. Is this at all posible. I am now 26 years old.

Steve, Are you nuts, you have a graduate degree with a high paying job and want go back to the army. I was in the army and was as an officer, the pay sucks and once you sign your name on the dotted line you owe then for the rest of your life. It is not worth it. Be smart, be a civilian, JJ

If were killing innocent Iraqis for oil why did I pay $2.71 for a gallon of gas today?

Aaron What is up i tried to post a statement and it wont let me it is a clean nice one too???

Anti-political Agenda on August 30, 2005 8:47 PM

>Aaron What is up i tried to post a statement and it wont let me it is a clean nice one too???

it should work now...

help! i need a job bad in southern cali oth discharge freakin marine corps

fasty77, the reason why you are paying so much for gas is because the US couldn't get a hold of Iraq. They want to control the oil fields but the Iraqis are fucking them up. We should go for solar energy, wait a minute there is no money to be made. Bush and his congress men would not make money in solar energy stock, no no, they have alot of money invested in oil companies. JJ

Joe Navy

I would like to thank you for your reply. You are so true. You did pick a better job. I wanted to be a all hooha commando. I got to play commando for about six months. I had the chance to help people that were incapable of helping their self. I know in the end I did get the short end of the stick, but I am proud of what I did. I am a Combat Veteran that fought a war on the ground the way wars have been fought since the beginning of time. Dude, all I am trying to state is that you did choose the better military life. Remember there are young guys just like you, sorry ladies but, only guys in combat jobs (MOS) sucking everyday as we send these messages back and forth to each other. I am not trying to be blunt but there really are two types of jobs in the military. These jobs are Infantry and Support. You were wise to pick the Support end. But you know what, you have no Ideal about how it is to be in a firefight. You have to count on your brother to your left and right to provide fire support as you assault the objective. There are lots of guys in the Middle East that really donít like us. War is very unforgiving. I remember the first dead body I saw I almost puked. The damn rag heads had been firing at us for hours, and our platoon lit all of them up. There were bodies all over the place. Navy, when you see another human being with his brains blown out by a 7.62 from an M-14 (Issued to each squad before we deployed) you start to think about life and how fragile it is. Well Navy you know what a Mark-19 is? Well it is a grenade launcher made by H&K witch is attached to our up armors. Well Mr. Blue when you watch a manís chest blown out right in front of you, you receive another reality check. I got blood on my DCUís from that one. They were all asking for it trying to kill us, but you now what I still have to live with those images in my mind till the day I die. Mr. Blue just be happy you were one of the smart ones and decided to go blue. Oh and by the way I scored an 87 on my ASVAP, I could have done just about any job I wanted. Another thing I guess my discharge did screw up my pay potential. I currently am only able to earn $18 an hour. But you know what, I will try my best to continue college, and make the best life for myself. Navy I was just a good guy with too much heart. I guess I wanted to help people more then I wanted to kill them. Navy I am not putting you down anymore. You are a member of the U.S. Navy and I am proud of you the same as I am proud of all the service men and women. I just think that you might have a lot of hate bottled up inside. Remember before all these people here got kicked out they signed that same contract you did. We all raised our right arms and did the best we could. Even after all the events that took place, if I got recalled I would do the job I raised my right hand to do. Navy Blue I really wish the best to you and you fellow seaman.

Anti-political Agenda on August 31, 2005 11:02 AM

Rebecca Abel

Entry Level Separation is the best Separation a person can get from the army other then a straight Honorable discharge. Things will be just fine. Hell I almost received one. If I had I would be much better off now. Your Husband is not technically a solider yet. He is training to become one. When he gets out he should just forgot about the whole Army thing and never mention it again. To the best of my knowledge it will not hurt him in the future. I will be like he never joined. And remember the most important thing of all, support him. Itís not easy, and itís not for everyone. I went to Infantry training at Fort Benning, on sand hill. It was not the worst experience I had in the Army, but it was not for all people. Like I said I almost did not make it. The only reason my Drill Sgt. passed me was for two reasons, I could run, and I could ruck. The best part is that he is getting out before he ends up in an unforgiving situation. War is hell and if his whole heart is not there, he should think about getting out of the war business. I do still have respect for him for attempting to do the honorable thing. About a third to almost half of my Infantry class did not graduate with us. Not everyone will make it. If everyone made it there would be more U.S. solider killed in the Middle East Theater. The ELS is the best for him. Oh I am not 100% sure but in the future he might be able to try again. I would like to wish you and you husband the best luck.

Anti-political Agenda on August 31, 2005 11:41 AM

Im goin to DRB next week for some silly stuff that I did about a month ago. Ive already had one dui and am aproaching my 2nd and 3rd alcohol offense. they only got me on ua for 2 days and missing duty section muster. I want out but dont want an oth. what should I tell the twinkies?

Aaron,

I'm wondering if you can give me any advice. I'm an officer with just over two years in and I've been experiencing extreme depression and anxiety for the past year. I saw a psychologist and eventually he prescribed antidepressants, which have not worked at all. Although I'm not yet suicidal, I hate my life in the military and find myself constantly hoping for an escape. Is this what's known as "failure to adapt" and, if so, how difficult is it to get discharged for that? I don't even care if it's honorable. I just need out.please help. thanx.

Hi Jamie
cant really answer your question. I got kicked out for drugs...which probably was not the easiest way to get out. I think talking to a chaplain might be a real good idea for you though.
cheers
a

How long does it take to get kicked out for pot? I'm in a hurry to get home to my father whom is dying from liver cancer. Should I try for a Humanitarian Discharge or go for OTH? Which way is quicker?? What do I have to do?

HI MY NAME IS KRISTINA
i got kicked out .... well for the same thing as pretty much everyone else (drugs). they put me through HELL!! 45/45 1/2 X 2 OTH EXTRA DUTY... WELL IT TOOK THEM ALMOST 7 MONTHS TO PROCESS ME OUT. MY POINT, HOW WOULD I GET AHOLD OF THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE TO HELP ME UPGRADE MY DISCHARGE (call,letters...?) please respond to my little e-mail.
kfuciarelli420@yahoo.com

COLLEGE MONEY--If you get arrested for drugs you cannot get Federal Finacial Aid.

If you get an OTH (Piss test pop)--You can still get Finacial Aid from the government!! (BCD and Dishonorable disqualify you)

ILLEGAL INTERVIEW QUESTIONS--

Illegal-how old are you...Legal-are you over 18?

Illegal-WERE YOU HONORABLY DISCHARGED...Legal-what branch did you serve? and What type of training or education did you receive?

My point is, you are still eligable to get college money and due to discrimination laws an interviewer cannot ask about your character of discharge.

I am a now senior in college. After 3yrs 8mo in the Marines, I got an OTH. I attend college almost entirely on Federal Stafford Loans which do not have to be paid back until I graduate. I am an Accounting and Finance Major. Starting salary when I graduate 40K-45K a year.

Don't believe the hype. Senior NCO's and Officers will tell you that life without an Honorable will suck. NOT TRUE! I love my life.

I spoke to a Army recruiter and he told me there is waivers to enter back into the armed forces after receiving an OTH. I got mine from the navy. He told me to keep trying. All people got to do is to stay out of trouble while civilian, and the armed forces can take you back. I'm not going back to the navy though. FTN All the way!!!

Anyone who judges someone based on what their type of discharge is, in my opinion, an idiot. We all make decisions and some people will choose to blindly follow the path that others tell them to follow or that society tells them to follow. The world isn't black and white. Real strength isn't being able to perfectly follow an order you don't believe in, that is closer to slavery as far as I'm concerned. Strength is doing what you believe is right, regardless of what others think and what society says is right. There may be times when a lesser evil is necessary to promote a greater good, but there is a line where the lesser evil is doing nothing to help any greater good. From my experience in the military, it is usually simply a matter of a cruel person abusing their authority. For those here who are strong enough to follow your heart, I salute you. For those closeminded, cruel people who are slaves to the system, I hope you someday find a way out of your misery.

man, just like many others here, im glad i came across this site. im glad that 'joe navy' is no longer posting here. after he stated that he's an ABH, all of his posts seemed to make sense. i cant remember how many hours i spent yelling at those yellow shirts or how many blue shirts i pulled away from jet intakes/props. or yelling at them for crashing my jet into another (i was an AirFrames troubleshooter/final checker) if i had that job, id be a salty individual myself (and im not talking about sea time, either). well on to my story:

I made the oath in '97 and after AMS 'A' school, i was forward deployed with CVW-5 in Japan. did my time honorably, received various awards, made E-5 then decided to re-enlist with a mediocre SRB and a chance to do shore duty in S.D. ive always been an above average sailor and a good mentor to the new sailors who checked into the command. after i got to S.D. i had a few personal probs that led me to make a decision that i would soon regret. shortly after 9/11, i no longer believed in what i was fighting for. i enlisted to defend my country. not punk someone else for theirs. i ended up poppin for THC, at the time, my passive behavior led me to just 'let' things happen. i didnt ask for help from anyone, although our legal YN gave me some pointers and a few of the officers remembered me from my command in Japan and gave good words on my behalf. i was still discharged with an OTH. i thought life was over. i was one of those who let things take their course... but now im just tired of it. and since i found this site, i feel like i still have a chance to make something of myself and not let my past haunt me as it has been doing.

i have a few questions... i did my first four years honorably, re-enlisted and popped 9 months later. am i still eligable for my GI Bill? can anyone prove this in black and white? also, am i entitled for any other VA benefits? and can any of these be proven in black and white. i want to go to school and i cant afford to do so on my own, im a new father and am working a dead end job. also, im in debt to the government for the partial SRB they gave me and for some reason they stated i owe for 'time NOT served' how does this make sense. i mean i can understand they want the fraction of the SRB they gaveme, but they want me to pay for the time not served? it came out to be damn near the whole amount of the SRB. can someone help me with this also?

In November of 2004, I went AWOL from the Marine Corps Reserve. Then in May of 2005, I had to return my gear and talk with the Commanding Officer. He told me that I would receive an OTH discharge if I did not show up for the next drill. I told him that I would not be there. It is now September and I have still not heard anything about the discharge. I know the Marine Corps is known for being slow with discharges, but it's been almost 5 months. Last week, I called the Gunnery Sergeant and he told me that I could still get back in, but would have to make up all of the drill (40 total). He also said that my paperwork is in the process of going to the General for final approval of my discharge for Other Than Honorable . My question is, if I do not show up for drills, how long will if take for me to receive the paperwork for my discharge? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Currently in USAR i signed up for 6 reserve plus 2 IRR. Apparently there is no more IRR so I am stuck with 8???

My other question is. I am bitter. I signed up for Mil Intel, my packet was messed up by recruiter and security officer, having me sign one before i had chance to review in order to ship out same day, they had me sign original completed messed up original draft. Didnt realize until got to FT. Leonard Wood, the unit I had signed up for was at their AT and the security officer was un reachable on vacation.

so i had to decide between flying back home or choosing another MOS, made worse decision in life and chose another unit/MOS.

took 2 years to get my intial bonus payment from new unit and never got tuition assistance so many problems stemming from not being in system properly.

now i have 5.5 years served, despite having to drop out of college because I couldn't afford to go, I worked hard and now I am making more than most of my friends as a computer programmer, married and with a newborn.

I'd making six figures if i had a top secret security clearance. I am absolutely miserable at drills, I did not go to Iraq when they deployed at the time I was struggling working for myself trying to break into the field I am in as a consultant, I was struggling with Depression big time and suffered Insomnia.

I am fine now, and ready to go to Katrina or wherever, but not Iraq, I refuse to go, when my tuition was never paid when I was trying to go to college. I'm stressed out at drills so bad I have physical symptoms like trauma on my feet.

My marriage, proffressional life couldn't be better, I'm a self made man, and consider myself very fortunate to be USA. I probably have better life than majority of people. But I've done this inspite of the army. I know many ppl won't cry tears for me but I would be making six figures doing what I am doing now if I had the TOP security clearance I thought I was gettign when I signed up MI. Instead I am totally being misutilized by the USAR doing things not related all to my strength such as hacking computers, developing mapping applications, or translating signals, deecoding encryptions, etc...

I am prepared to U out and get a OTH rather than amputate my foot, but was wondering if it's worth going to drill for six more months. and getting six years in, and shooting for a medical discharge related to stress stemming from bitterness of none of my contracts really being honored except for late bonus payments?

Please advise

i was in the marine corps infantry for 3 1/2 years, went to iraq twice received high pros and cons and even got a nam with combat v and a purple heart. the last time i was in iraq i injured my leg while running and ended up with four fractures and my acl was torn, anyways the docs put me on bed rest and my leg swelled up. my corpsman i was in charge of in my fire team gave me some valium he had. I took two pills of valium to help me go to sleep that night and the next night the corpsman was caught with it and i admitted to it under amnesty from my platoon commander. the next day i was priority medevaced and then spent four monthes in a hospital in san antonio. when my unit got back from iraq they charged me with four different charges and said if i didn't plead guilty to it then my unit would give me a special court martial. i plead guilty to possession in a summary court martial and was given an oth just three weeks ago. does anyone have any advice on how to get a job, go to college, or upgrade my discharge and how much does it usually cost$ to do.

I am so glad that I am out of the military. The institution sucks and I regret joining the military. It is not worth losing a limb or your life for something you do not believe in. Violence is not the answer to our way of life. The US needs to be more passive with foreign affairs. We like to stick our noses in everyone's business. I do not want to die for oil or another's war. Moreover, civilian life is much better. No one is controlling you. You actually make more money, have more freedom and get better looking girls. The pride is that you can actually become independent and wealthy without joining an institution. Take a stand and live your life on your own without restraints. YOu do not need some institution to tell you how to live your life. Just because your dad or grandfather was in the service does not mean that you too have to join. Take a stand and live the civilian life, FUCK Pres Bush and his administration

just to shed some light on the subject for anyone else who may be going through what i am. here's my story. first, understand that not all services and commands are the same. some are better than others, and your situation may unfold differently than mine. ok, i went home on leave in june of 2005. came back from leave during the first week of july and right away, two days later, i had a urinalysis. two weeks after my urinalysis the results came back positive and my case was submited to the powers that be. i'd say 2-3 weeks after my case had been submited i went to the legal office and they notified me that i would be recieving an "oth" discharge. then i proceeded to sign some papers. the paper work inquired if i wanted a lawyer, admin board and copies of my case documents. i wanted to make things go quick and smooth. i had already confessed to using drugs and i wasn't concerned about recieving an "oth". so i waived having a lawyer and an admin board but i did want a copy of my case documents. so, not too long after that, i'd say early sept i recieved a copy of my case and the CO's recommendation to have me seperated. that was on a monday. friday, that same week, i got my "to be seperated no later than" date. and now i have just submited my seperation packet to my chain of command. so let's re-cap. i submited my urine sample on july 8th. july 22nd my results came back positive. sept 10th i recieved my dates for seperation and to depart my command. which is, leaving my command sept 27th and seperating from the service no later than oct 7th. from the time i got "in trouble" to the date i am suposed to be discharged is a span of about two and a half months. i concider myself extremely lucky that i did not recieve any additional disciplinary action such as drb, xoi, co mast. i am simply being processed out. let it be known that i was an average sailor. not a golden boy of any sort and not in any clique. for the most part i did my job and didn't cause any trouble. with the exception of what i am charged for. which is drug abuse and misconduct. misconduct because i did not divulge who my source was for the drugs. they call it misconduct, i call it integrity. nobody likes a snitch.

here's mine, summer of 89 a friend of mine and i were dogged by a navy recruiter all summer long, the guy would buy us alcohol and party with us, his stories of life on the high seas sounded very interesting to a kid fresh out of high school, i got in, my friend did not score good enough in testing, went to great lakes, and went to school to be assigned to an aircraft squadron, and was assigned to vf-143 the pukin dogs in virginia beach, went home on leave, and extended my stay by a week, got back just in time to board ship for a med cruise, i didnt recieve a pay reduction i recieved no pay at all, a pukin dogs flyboy made sure my life was hell, was made to report every 2 hours, all day all night, i didnt get any sleep, i was not allowed off the ship at any time at all during the cruise, my uniforms didnt fit and i could not buy new ones, i could not purchase personal hygene items, and had to literally borrow things from fellow sailors, or take any leftover soap or other items anyone left behind, i had to actually be like a literal street bum aboard ship, this to me seemed worse than jail, i started to stop reporting every 2 hours, in august of 2000 i was called to the office of our master chief onboard, he plainly asked me tell me honestly, do you like the navy? my answer was no, within 30 days i was on a helo to france, and flown to italy, and from there to philly where i spent a month being processed out, and later was sent a bill for my flight back to the united states. on my service record i recieved an oth discharge and a sea service ribbon oh boy, if anyone knows about the process of trying to upgrade an oth discharge please let me know.

former pukin dog on September 18, 2005 11:28 PM

I am freaking out..my fiance just called and he tested positive for meth. He doesn't know what is going to happen, if he gets to come home today or go to the brig, does anyone know, I am crying and afraid, we have a new baby, and he quit 9 days ago...

nitoebiz21@sbcglobal.net

hey there former pukin dog, this is soon to be former AE in a nearby squadron. Be glad your not around anymore. tomcat mentallity on superhornets and everyone is going fuckin nuts. At work 4:25 in the morning when the squadron should have got off at midnight. This bullshit happens repeatedly. If your trying to get your discharged upgraded go talk to your local recruiter and get details on how to get in touch with veteran affairs in your area. you might want to be a little quite about why you want to get in touch with them. Just say you want to talk to somebody about all of your benefits. when you get in touch with veteran affairs. They will put you on a long long list of people trying to get there discharge upgraded. once your on the list you can go to your local congressman and if hes not a dick head he can put in a request for your name to be considered for an upgrade. 9 out of 10 times if congressmen put in requests of this nature they will be approved.
Ive been in touch with a couple of people who have gone this route. 7 months of getting a discharge and one month to get it upgraded. Im currently in the process of awaiting mast. I dont do drugs or anything right now. Im saving myself for when I get out. ive got three alcohol offenses. one major and two (im not comin to work because im really really hungover) the big one was a dui(oops) but these last two are just to go to mast so I can tell my command just how fucked up they are. Im sick and tired of the navy using scare tactics as just one more way to convert you into a passive sailor. The military thinks that they can mold young minds in which everway they want. little do they know theyre just fuckin us up in the head. A while back a friend and I went to drb for playing paintball in empty barracks. the chiefs told us that we were gonna get an oth and that we were horrible people that couldnt make it as civilians, that we would end up in prison. All of that blew over with emi. a couple weeks later we had a piss test that my friend was really worried about. he went UA abbandoned his truck went in the woods soked a rag in either and put in in a trash bag and ziptied it over his head. he told me a couple days prior that he'd rather die before he had to live on the streets again or move back in with his parents I thought nothing of it because I felt the same way. My friend killed himself but the navy had one hell of a helping hand, telling us that we'll never make it anywhere outside the navy. Im about to go to drb for these next two alcohol offenses. im gonna push it to court martial and see if I can really blow things up.

My name is Simp, I was in the Navy for five fuckin' years. I reenlisted after serving three hornorable years on the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower during its drydock stages in 1985-1986. Anyway, I took orders to work in Washington D.C., what a crazy fuckin' place. I was mugged and shot six times. My friend was there and rushed me to the Medical facilities on Andrews Airforce base. I had to piss like the dickens while I laid there with bullet holes all over my body. An officer handed me a bucket to piss in. Ahhhh, what a relief that was until I heard a superior officer told him to test the piss. I said oh shit because I had smoked some mary jane the previous day. Well, to make a long story short, I was processed out for a positive urninalysis Other Than Honorably. It's been fifteen years now so I need to know if this shit is going to stay with me. I currently work for the Post Office but can not receive regular status because of my discharge. What can i do to change this shit once in for all.

I was in the USMC assigned to PMO where, while on a 96, myself and two of my friends did X. The Female of the group popped on the piss test that next Monday. She subsequently dropped her boyfriends name as well as my own to NCIS. Feeling that I done something wrong, I confessed fully to NCIS...Without dropping the dime on any of my friends. The female received NJP 45/45, my best friend; her boyfriend received NJP 45/45. I received Summary Courts Martial (They thought that I was holding out...Fuck! I didn't know anything!) But due to the fact that my 1StSgt thought that I was worth saving (thanks 1StSGt) I got 45/45. After we had all done our time on restriction myself and my buddy were processed for admin discharge. We both received OTH. The female was aloud to remain in due to some admin technicality, with the chance to receive an honorable with full benefits.

The really fucked up part about this all is that I just talked to her the other day and found out that she is getting to return to her old section. PMO!!!
I am at a loss as to what I should do about this. I understand what I did was wrong and I stood up to the music, so to say, but this turn of events is just wrong.

One_twelve_alpha on September 20, 2005 3:15 PM

hello monster mike, thank you for the advice, I hope my congressman will listen, or sen. susan collins who is also from maine, she is chair, Committee on Governmental Affairs (One Hundred Eighth Congress), Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (One Hundred Ninth Congress). possibly she would find the recruiter story interesting with cindy shehan talking about recruiters at this moment,Thats what they do, try to destroy your self esteem, turn you into a robot, the treatment i recieved aboard the ike was uncalled for, and it happens everyday. we had a petty officer who worked in personnel who had classified documents under his bunk, he was actually the guy who sat us down and told us what to look out for with spys and what not when we were on liberty, this guy dissapeared, literally in the middle of a med cruise. i went to mast one time, then stopped reporting every two hours during my permanant restriction, and before long i was headed out, so good luck to you, i am sorry to hear about your friend, hang in there you will make it on the outside,and not have the problems that they tell you that you will have.
keep me posted on how things are going, puglife426@yahoo.com

former pukin dog on September 20, 2005 5:13 PM

PLEASE READ AND SEND ADVISE!!
I am 20, joined the Navy 11 mos. ago and went onto Naval Nuclear Power Training Command. Got there Dec 30 and went to mast Feb 20 for underage drinking(which got dropped at mast) and false official statement and got RIR to E-2, 30 days restiction and forfiture of 250 pay for 2 months. 6 months later I went back to mast for underage drinking, drunk and disorderly, provoking speech and gestures and assault. I was awarded RIR to E-1, 30/30, $600 pay for two months and was told I would receive OTH. I was later called back into the DOS office and told that my OTH would be reviewed after my restiction, well today I went to an ARB(Administrative Review Board) and was told that I am being discharged. My question is....what am I supposed to do now? I want to get in school and get a good job but I do not know the extent or severity of my discharge. Can I get scholarships? Please send some advise to my email

tdsolley@hotmail.com

THANKS GUYS!!!

Robert you stated "i did my first four years honorably, re-enlisted and popped 9 months later. am i still eligable for my GI Bill? can anyone prove this in black and white? also, am i entitled for any other VA benefits? and can any of these be proven in black and white. i want to go to school and i cant afford to do so on my own, im a new father and am working a dead end job. also, im in debt to the government for the partial SRB they gave me and for some reason they stated i owe for 'time NOT served' how does this make sense. i mean i can understand they want the fraction of the SRB they gaveme, but they want me to pay for the time not served? it came out to be damn near the whole amount of the SRB. can someone help me with this also?"

You can still receive your MGIB benifits because you received your initial 4 years honorable discharge. Other VA benefits are at the discreation of the VA but they are slim. I filed for bankruptcy and declared the debt from the SRB. Just work on college and keep your head up. Make a new life and use the past to push you forward.

Once a Marine always a Marine on September 27, 2005 3:59 PM

I am a Private Detevtive licensed in the state I live in. I am moving to a new state and this licensing application form is asking about what type of discharge I received from the Army. What I need is facts. Will the back ground check done by a state agency be able to find my records. In addition, can you really call an OTH discharge a General one? I know you have the General discharge under honorable conditions. Can an OTH be called a General under other the honorable conditions, but General for short. If anyone know the facts please tell me. In addition, Aaron Wall please advise me. This information is very critical to me. Thanks

Anti-political Agenda on September 30, 2005 10:45 PM

"I need some advice" I was in the marine reserves when i got oth for missing over 7 drills. that was about two years ago. Here is the thing I want to reenlist as active duty back in the Marines, I just dont know where to start, I also never recieved my DD214. What can I do? can someone please HELP me out there? THX

hey arron,

I need some advise, I have a friend who is got a OTH, for signing a paper stating he looked at a piece of medical equipment, he did not. he went to review board and even one of the officers sided with him, he is out now, but wondering what his chances with the VA are? do you know? thanks,
Bill

So, I cant blame alcohol on my OTH, I was just stupid and in the wrong place at the wrong time. It seems that everyone has their own darkness that surrounds this and it is very painful to have to hide a portion of your life, that if the same circumstances happened, and you were a civilian, would not have cause you to be fired.I am a Gulf War Vet and despite the rank that was on my collar when I was separated, I AM the rank that I earned as far as I am concerned. Does anyone know if service member that got OTH dishcharges can get the veterans lisence tags for vehicles, and can we apply for a concealed weapons permit? Of course in this state we can have them on our hip, but wasnt sure if I could apply without the embarassment of a past coming back to haunt me. Anything would be appreciated.

in 1999 i joined the army on an 11B airborne ranger contract. I was pumped. When i got the the reception battallion i contracted the flu which quickly progressed to bronchitis, a double ear infection and they say pnemonia later. At the reception the started me on anibiotics. I had trouble doing more than throwing up and coughing all the time, but i made it and felt good enough the start basic (i was at reception for 3 or 4 weeks).

When i go to my training battallion, the drill sgt threw out the remaining half of my antibiotics, and after a few days the illnesses came back twice as hard.

i saw the medics every 2 or 3 days to get another checkup, but as i quickly progressed into deeper illness i started to become depressed as well becuase i was getting nothing more than ibuproferen and cough drops. Once i was sent to the hospital to have x rays to determine the extent of my bronchitis, which by this point had turned to pnemonia.
I watched 2 buddies die in training after week seven. dehydration, they said.
I continually requested a discharge so that i could see a civillian doctor and of course was told to F off.

One of my drill sgts. asked me 2 or 3 times a week why i was still there and pulled me aside one day to tell me that if i went AWOL, and was gone for over 30 days they would send me the paperwork in the mail for an honorable discharge.

so i finally went AWOL, flew back home and saw a doctor who freaked out and put me on a bunch of drugs. Just under a month later i turned myself in and was sent back to my training unit where they threatened to hold me for several month and of course, i received some serious threats. i didnt stay out the full 30 days becuase i wasnt sure what the drill sgt said was true.
but when i got back he game me a speach about how i "f*cked it all up" and explained it all out to me like before. so i left again and turned myself in after 30 days, where i was sent to the outprocessing battallion or whatever the hell it was called. they said i was getting a general discharge, but was issued an "OTH" with an RE4 code.
last year i went back to the recruiter (reserve) becuase i still have the urge to serve. he told me what all my codes mean and was willing to help me in any way. no one really told me what an RE4 or OTH was before him. Wrote the congresswoman and she said she couldent help, so i send my application for an upgrade.
we will see what happens.
Currently im a regular guy, regular job, volunteer firefighter, volunteer search and rescue, etc etc.. loving life, but i would like an upgrade.

i never put my military experience on my applications becuase i was told i didnt have to by the outprocessing guys. recruiters told me none of it shows on background checks either.
my app was sent in just over 6 months ago with letters explaining everything and copies of college transcripts, driving record and certifications ive received as well as honors for search and rescue and firefighting.

i'll let you all know what happens.

thanks

I was an 18x at Ft. Benning in Infantry basic. I left 4 weeks into basic, went back seeking an ELS (Sorry to say, but your chances of getting this when they know you WANT it are slim to none), and left again via the railroad tracks. After 30 days I called a base, forget which, to confirm that I was on deserter status. After verifying I was on deserter status (which means your unit has reported you appropriately), I turned myself in at Ft. Sill, Oklahoma at an MP station. After turning myself into the MP station I was turned over to another group. I busted my ass for 10 days doing stuff around the base with other guys in similar situations as myself and got an OTH discharge. This is pretty standard in the Army from what I can tell. UCMJ can be shoved up your ass, but there were guys in there that were 3 years in that left and guys that were 6 years on deserter status, so staying gone and turning yourself in after 30 seems like the way to go. Your unit CAN get you back. I had a guy in there that stayed gone for two months and his unit got him back. He left again immediately and they released him afterwards.

If you turn yourself in after 30 and they are dragging their feet with outprocessing you, DO NOT LEAVE. If you leave this station once your are turned over after being on deserter status they can seriously screw you for not playing ball. If your goal is to get out - suck it up. A cop pulls you over a few years from now they will hold you and send you to the same place to get outprocessed. Better to get it over with than explaining to your employers why you disappeared for a couple weeks.

The military wasn't for me and if you considering leaving it might not be for you either. We're not storming Normandy and killing Nazis - I sleep well at night and have a sensitive Gov't security clearance w/my OTH discharge. Don't believe the career Army when they tell you you'll never get another job or you'll spend time in a Military jail. This is hyped SO much throughout the Army that my noncon friend seriously thought I was going to spend time somewhere. Naturally, he was wrong. I know a policeman and a fireman with the same discharge as me.

If you're reading this intently and you need this information then I wish you the best. Dealing with this and your life in general can be a serious kick to the face. I didn't know stress until having to deal with sandhill and then thinking I there's a chance I could be put in military jail or sent back to the place where time stands still.

My advice for anyone AWOL getting ready to do this - Make sure it's something you want. My ego definitely toyed with me when I got out and found myself at the bottom of a bottle for a little while. I don't, however, regret joining the Army. To everyone else, I never bash the Army. It was the best decision I've ever made in my life and the second best decision was leaving it. I got some serious life perspective and appreciate the hell out of everything I have. It was and is the bar I set when it comes to how shitty life can be. Whenever I get down on myself or start to have a "pity party", I snap back when thinking of infantry basic and a shit eating grin comes right across my face. Good luck guys on whatever your decision.

Hey guys, I have been reading these posts and I feel your pain. I too was discharged with an OTH and wanted to go back in. Chances are that will never happen and unfortunately none of you will be able to go back in either. The military is tough on us with OTH's and RE-4's. Each of us still have the desire to serve, especially in this time of great need. Our country needs good men and women to serve right now and each of us given the opportunity would probably make better soldiers, sailors and airmen. Hind sight is twenty twenty and it's too late for us. I know the pain some of you feel. I know the embarrasement you feel when you apply for jobs. I know the desire you feel to make right what we fucked up. But life goes on. It's like trying to get back with a girl you really loved but she doesn't love you and has moved on to someone new. We have to put this chapter of our lives behind us and go on living as best we can. If no one else tells you this I will. If you ever wore the uniform and served this country you have something to be proud of. I am proud of you and am honored to know we are brothers in arms. Don't let a piece of paper dictate who you are and what you did for this country. Be proud your names are forever in the pages that hold all that served. The character of your discharge does not reflect your patriotism or the love you have for this country. I pray you all find new avenues of fullfilment and success. Your shipmate and brother in arms; C. Jackson OS3(SW) USN Veteran

Hey, I am not proud to serve a country that is over in Iraq for oil. The US violated international treaties and policies. I believe I am a patriot for speaking out against our foreign policies. You do not have to fight or agree with the current policy/administration to be patriotic. I was in the service for nine years I will never ever re-enlist or have any of my relatives or sons/daughters to join the military. The military brainwash young and innocent people and turn them into war fighting machines. These youngsters could do better in a civilian world where no one is telling them when and how to eat, sleep, play, bathe, etc. I do not see politicians nor the President sending their sons and daughters to Iraq, a war which they supported and started. The higher echelons in society supported the war but not with own blood and sacrifice. They used the poor and brainwash youngsters with phony commercials and bonuses. Wars have always been beneficial to the rich. There is an old saying, war is fought by the poor and help the rich. I am patriot because an American I have the fundamental right to speak up, even if it is against our government. Freedom of speech and demonstrating courage is Patriotism, would not you agree? JJ

Dear C.Jackson,
If there were a lot more people like you it would be great for the military. The military as a whole especially the army and marines are having recruiting and retention problems. I have not yet mention about the national guard and reserves. They are in worse situation. Isn't it ironic that a lot of people in this website want to rejoin to support the military but in reality, the military is having difficulties with recruiting and retention.

Hey JJ, I agree with you. The military should take a second look at many of the ex-service members with OTH's. Once an OTH has been given the military does not consider certain factors such as personal problems, superior misconduct, youthful indiscretion and others that played a role in the decision to do whatever it was that earned us an OTH. I think the first place the military should look is web sights like this one to find a more mature and much wiser group. There are a few of us if given the chance would do much better the second time around. Unfortunately the military brass doesn't see it that way.

I have a under other than honorable conditions. For awol. And have done lots of research and there are so many ways to up grade it. But it does make your life hell because my employers see what kind of shit i have done and they do not like what they see. I know people who have the same discharge as me and they got a RE-3 instead of 4 and they can re-enlist but i can not. It was not worth the trouble to get this discharge. I wished i would have stayed in it was not that bad. If you want out of the military do it with in the first 182 days. Because your technically still a civilian. I have talked to an attorney and i got mine with in 143 days and they screwed me on my discharge. so if you have any questions i can tell you everything i know about discharges.

HEY FORMER SHIPMATES AND SOLDIERS,
I WAS IN THE NAVY FOR ALLMOST 2 YEARS BACK IN THE EARLY 1990'S. HERE'S MY STORY: I LIKE ALL OF YOU FELT A PATRIOTIC DUTY (AND STILL DO), TO SERVE MY COUNTRY. I STUDIED SO HARD FOR THE ENTRANCE EXAM (KNOWN AS THE ASVAB), AND FINALLY GOT A HIGH ENOUGH SCORE TO ENLIST. AFTER BOOTCAMP I WENT TO AVIATION ORDINANCE SCHOOL IN MILLINGTON,TENNESSEE. BECAUSE I WAS IN ROTC IN HIGH SCHOOL, I ENLISTED AS AN E-3. I'M DYSLEXIC AND I GOT FRUSTRATED AT TIMES BUT I STILL GOT THROUGH MY 2 MONTH AO SCHOOL AND BOOTCAMP OK.
WHEN I GOT TO MY FIRST DUTY STATION (DIEGO GARCIA)AFTER ARRIVING ON THE ISLAND (LOCATED IN THE IN THE INDIAN OCEAN), I DID OK AT MY JOB AT FIRST. I FELT ALOT PRESSURE FROM OTHER CO-WORKERS AND I FELT NOT AS GOOD AS THEM. SINCE I WAS SLOWER AT DOING MY TASKS AND WAS NOT AS ASSERTIVE AS THEY WERE, I GOT ALOT OF FLACK. I ALSO HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY ROOM MATE. SHE WAS DISRESPECTFUL TO ME AND WOULD USE MY THINGS WITHOUT ASKING AND ETC.
I BECAME DEPRESSED BECAUSE OF THIS. THE NAVY SHIPPED ME TO A NAVAL HOSPITAL OKINAWA, JAPAN TO EVALUATE ME AND SEE IF I COULD CONTINUE MY JOB IN THE NAVY. THEY DETERMINED I WAS STILL FIT FOR ACTIVE DUTY BUT PUT ME ON A DIFFERENT JOB ASSIGNMENT WHEN I GOT BACK TO DIEGO GARCIA 2 WEEKS LATER. I DID OK AT MY NEW JOB WORKING AT THE CHURCH. HOWEVER, I WAS HAVING FLASH BACKS OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED TO ME YEARS EARLIER BEFORE I JOINED THE SERVICE. I BECAME MORE DEPRESSED AND ENDED UP GOING BACK TO THE STATES AND WAS DISCHARGED 7 MONTHS LATER. I DID TRY TO GO BEFORE A BOARD AND UNFORTUNATELY COULDN'T MAKE IT DUE TO TRANSPORTATION. I WAS IN VIRGINIA AND THE BOARD HEARING WAS IN BETHESDA,MARYLAND. I WAS GOING THROUGH ALOT. I WAS GOING THROUGH ALOT PERSONALLY TOO WITH JUST BEING MARRIED IN ALL. I GOT AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE BUT I RECEIVED AN RE-4 CODE AS WELL AS MANY OF YOU. EVEN THOUGH I CAN NEVER SERVE AGAIN, I STILL FEEL PATRIOTIC IN MY HEART. I FEEL DOWN BECAUSE I FEEL I FAILED AND GET DEPRESSED SOMETIMES EVEN AFTER ALL THESE YEARS OF BEING OUT OF THE SERVICE. THAT WAS MY DREAM WAS TO SERVE MY COUNTRY AND I WANTED TO STAY IN AND MAKE IT A CAREER. THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT THAT WAY. I'VE BEEN GOING TO COLLEGE AND AM MAJORING IN TRAVEL/TOURISM. I WAS WORKING FOR A SHORT WHILE PART-TIME TAKING DONATIONS FOR VETERANS' OUTREACH. EVERY TIME I SEE A RECRUITER IN UNIFORM AT COLLEGE OR ELSE WHERE, IT IS HARD FOR ME. IF I HAD THE CHANCE AND WAS ABLE TO, I'D SERVE ALL OVER AGAIN IF MY COUNTRY CALLED ON ME. SINCE THAT'S AN IMPOSSIBILITY, DUE TO MY DISABILITIES, I TRY TO HELP WITH VETERANS FUNCTIONS. IF ANYONE HAS FEEDBACK PLEASE FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME AT:vlk@loraincounty.com
THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ AND RESPOND TO MY E-MAIL. VAL FROM OHIO

My finance just went to a Captain's Mast yesterday for popping a piss test for THC. They didn't give him restriction, just a demotion to an E4 and 1/2 months pay for 2 months. He more than likely will be getting an OTH. My question is, will the Navy still move us to Michigan with an OTH? Does anyone have any experience with this?

We'd be moving from California to Michigan.

I have a friend that's awall. Dose anyone have any edvice for my friend.

John, ask your friend a few questions. First ask him if he wants to remain in the military. Then ask him how long he has been awol. If the answer to the first question is yes then tell him whatever situation he's in that made him leave is only temporary. Duty stations change. Officers and NCO's change. He may very well be in a bad situation, I don't know but being awol only makes it worse. If he hasn't been gone long and wants to stay in tell him to get his butt back asap. If he doesn't care and doesn't want to remain in the military then things will pretty much proceed without his actively doing anything. After so many days he will be labeled a deserter and will be kicked out anyway. What he needs to consider is this; whatever he decides will affect him for the rest of his life. I have an Other Than Honorable discharge and I am prevented for enjoying certain benefits I could really use right now. Try to talk him into finishing his contract with the military and getting his Honorable Discharge. Life is hard enough without setting yourself up for negative eventualities which follows a bad discharge. I'm not trying to get into personal issues but, he left for a reason. He needs to man up and face whatever it is he's running from. I know the military isn't easy, especially for young people who have no referance point to draw strength from. But he needs to get his as back to the base if it isn't too late already.

I read somewhere that if he gets an OTH and gets a letter from the CO that they will still move us. Does anyone with an OTH have any experience with this?

Hi everyone!
I was in the Marines 2 years and popped for THC in 2001. I was told all the same shit that you can read here, I've been to the VA and was told all the same again. An OTH can interfere with somethings in life, but life does go on. After 911 I wanted to go back so bad it hurt. I talked to recruiter after recruiter, looked up how to upgrade my discharge and everything that you can possibly think of, and all I found was closed doors. But Marines never quit and I'm still a Marine so I keeped on. Finally I found some light and found a real recruiter and know some people that been in the military over 30 years and isn't afraid of politics. For the last year I've been doing alot of shit to get back in. What you need to re-enlist is a comander's wavier from whatever unit that you would serve in and thats it. Sounds easy but its not. A year of waiting and finally I got the green light.

So if you really want back in and are still motivated, press on goto every recruiter and ask them, even if you have an RE-4b like me, for an RE-4 re-enlistment code you need a comanders wavier. Thats the facts and I'm here if anyone wants to ask me any questions or give me shit.

Hey Spyder, please contact me at ptyofcr2@aol.com. I want back in so bad I shit my pants everytime I see another soldier died on the news. Let me know exactly who you talked to and what you said. I'll leave the state to go where you are if you have found someone to help. Not gung ho or want more medals. Just want to serve in uniform again. Don't care where I'm sent.

I was in the Army for seven years and on December 23,1986, I got a call from Red Cross, that my exwife of three years that I divorced. I went to my commander at the time a reservice officer on active statis, (a real redneck) he did care for African American. THe reason a say this my roommate at the time has gotten a OTHD about six months before I did,
However my two daughters were brought to my home town (East St.Louis,IL)ages 3 years and 9 months old, on the 22nd, of December by there mother and left on the 23 of December, at my mothers house. Well mom pantic and got in contact with Red Cross, which got in contact with me. I ask my comander if I could go and get them he stated no, it would cost the Army too much money to do that , I ask to extend my tern of toure in Germany, just as long as my children were with me. He still stated no, so I had I went in to depession and tretend to kill my self , mom was giving me the blues about the baby, and first sergant and the commander, not seeing my point about my children, all I wanted was to get my babies, not to get out of the Army. I stayed in the hospital for about three weeks under close watch, then I was confide to the concern(barracks) like a prisoner. I did a lot of praying and and sole searching and the one day final I was release, but under a other than honerable discharge, at the time it didn't matter I just wanted to get to my daughters.
But now I have been trying to change this dicharge and I have been getting the run a round, I last sen a form from the V.A. to the pentagon in Virginia, this was in Ausgust and I haven't heard from them yet.
I gave the Army seven year, as a Hospital food service cook, and a AllArmy 400 meter hurdle champion one gold, two silver and two bronze medles, and was on two U.S. track teams, I entered the Army as a N.C.A.A. college All American in track & feild. So how could thei happen to me. I served for my counrty and this is the thanks I get in return. I want this O.T.H.D. changed and I want stop untill I do , so if any one can help me please help. Thanks
you can send me a letter at 1401 E. Broadway, East St. Louis,IL 62201 I really would appreciate the favor

David Harden on October 27, 2005 2:38 PM

hey c.jackson... what benefits aren't you getting that you'd like to get?

Hey everyone... i'm glad I found this place. I went awol/deserted two years ago and i'm almost over the whole experience but it took some therapy and anti-depression pills. Anyway, I did like being in uniform but personal problems didn't let me fulfill that and now that i'm out, i'd like to serve as a policeman but with an OTH, i feel i'd be wasting my time applying. The cities near me are hurting for cops and i'd like to apply but as I stated before, I don't think i'd be choosen. I do have a college degree and have really turned my life around and am a very responsible and hard working person yet this black mark is haunting me.

mark in virginia on October 31, 2005 2:45 AM

Hello Joe,
My initial response to your post was skeptism at someone wanting to know why I wanted certain benefits. I have run into stiff opposition not only from the VA but also from posts on this websight. My first desire is to get into the National Guard. But my RE-4 wont allow it. My second wish is to obtain a VA home loan. I also have non combat related injuries that I am still suffering from that I am not eligeble to recieve compensation for because I at this point I am unable to prove is service related. One more thing, I have been diagnosed with PTSD by civilian doctors but cannot get into the VA and take advantage of the services they offer because of the type of discharged I have. I have been tossed out of the VA in Houston Tx. and Gainesville Fl. because once they saw my OTH all services available for vets with my condition were immediately susspended. I was medivaced off my ship because of a head injury I sustained during the scramble to get to my GQ station by helicoptor and placed in the hospital ward aboard the USS Tarawa LHA 3. The doctor who examened me was not able to find the cause of my fainting spells and headaches ( although I was not given a cat scan) threatened me with malingering and captains mast. I was afraid of these threats so I told them I felt fine and was sent back to my ship. I suffered from headaches and dizzy spells from that day to this but was afraid of possible brig time if I complained while on active duty. I also broke my ankle playing on the ships softball team. My ankle throbs and pops when the weather changes as it is now. I also split my hand open during a storm at sea trying to catch a shipmate sliding across the deck. I don't have 100% movement in these joints. Also when I was in the PI we had smokers and I fought in two bouts. Afterwards I began to experience severe headaches and neck pains which come and go but never go away for long. So, there you have it Joe. The VA wont touch me and I have been told I dont have a leg to stand on in my fight to be compesated and or treated for these injuries. Thank you for your interest in my post Joe. If you desire you can reach me at ptyofcr2@aol.com Thank you from a fellow vet
C. Jackson

My girlfriend is in navy bootcamp and she lied about haveing asthma. Is it posible for here to get a medical discharge for that now with out getting in any other trouble?

My fiance is about 1/2 way through the marines boot camp and wants out VERY badly. He has talked to his DI's, the captian, the caplin, the recruiter, and has even went UA but got caught. They still have not disgarged him. He thought about the gay thing but with our long history of us being together and the other stunts he pulled Im sure thats out of the question. What are the chances of him actually doing jail time? The DI also promised him an ELS (early leave separation) but then told him to go fuck himself. He wants out and probably will go UA again if something doesnt give soon. Any Advice would be helpful.

To: Worried,
Your situation is not uncommon. There are quite a few who try to get out once they sign the contract and take the oath. Apparently the Marines saw enough in him to give him a chance to become a United States Marine. Sadly he doesn't think much of himself if he wants to get out at the beginning of his career. I know the military isn't for everyone. I know being seperated is rough on a relationship but, this young man gave his word and and swore to protect this country. I have no simpathy for him. I do however impathize with his desire to get out but this is only a microcosm of the rest of his life. If he stands up and finishes boot camp he will more than likely succeed at anything he tries later in his life. There is no easy way out. The more he pulls these silly stunts the harder they will make it for him. He needs to man up and follow the program. Not only to survive bootcamp but also to make life easier later on. He is risking the loss of all benefits and any further employment will frown on his discharge. If you truly love this guy talk him into keeping his mouth shut, follow orders and count the days because this too will pass. Help him be the man the Marines knows he can be and help him to stop running from responsibilities. Life is hard but he seems hell bent on making it even harder. The possibility of him doing jail time shouldn't be a consideration. Why would you even think about jail time when he could simply fall in line and graduate bootcamp with honor and a bright future. If it's not too late tell him to finish the second half of bootcamp and come out with the Eagle, Globe and Anchor so many have worn with pride. He'll never have a better feeling of accomplishment and pride. I promise you that. This may not be the answer you wanted but in the long run neither you or he will regret doing it right. Semper Fi.

Hey C. Jackson

You dont even know the half of it so why dont you shut your mouth. He has tried to kill himself twice and they have done NOTHING so shut the fuck up. He will die in there. So back the fuck off and if you feel the need to push your fucking propaganda on some one then become a fucking recruiter. Maybe you should just suck it up and realize that sometimes sucking it up is just not an option.

Just one more thing. I have spent the last 6 weeks writing supportive letters everyday even when all I wanted to do is cry. I told him on his one and only phone call to suck it up. I write him all the time just to get this over with so DO NOT give me that all encompasing tell him to be a man shit. Ive herd it an came here for some actual advice so please dont waste my time. Cause Im not gonna care.Funny you sound like a recruiter to me.

Worried,
I did not mean to piss you off. I am not a recruiter. I served in the US Navy and my last command was a Marine Expitionary Unit so I have a few years under my belt with the Marines. I only wrote what I did because I have an Other Than Honorable discharge and have had to suffer the results of that type of discharge. I meant no disrespect by what I wrote. You are correct when you say I don't know the half of what is going on with your fiance. I do know that people who try to get out of the military the way your fiance is usually runs into more trouble than a little bit. Please forgive me if I stepped on your toes as that was not my intention. I feel your frustration and my heart goes out to you. Your fiance has very limited choices and only falling in step with the program will net him desirable results. I am sorry you and he are in the position you are and I only meant to impart to you the reality of his situation. When I was in I saw a few guys like your fiance. They were good guys but found the military was not for them. I don't blame your fiance for doing the things he has. I only want you to know the military has little to no patience for guys like your fiance. The best thing he can do is play their game, go along with the program until he is in a more favorable position. I am not the enemy, I was just trying to help. Sorry if I said things you didn't want to hear but what I wrote is the truth. For a while when my ship was in dry dock I waS A BRIG CHASER. I heard the sad stories of guys who only wanted out so they could be with their famalies. There is nothing wrong with that and I understand what you are going through. But, for the most part commanding officers were hard on guys who did what your fiance is doing. I just wanted you to be prepared for the inevitable. If I can help please feel free to contact me again, if not you don't have to curse me out to make your point. Again I am sorry if I offended you.

Jackson

Let me apologize, I just keep gettin the run around from everyone and no one wants to actually answer any question. I appreciate you taking the time to write and your right I dont want to hear it. I know everyone wants to help and I thank you for your opinion and apologize for cussing you out. Im very defensive of my recruit. Id do anything to keep him safe.

Any have any answers for me on my previous questions, or any other ways I can get her out I am running out of time. Please Help me this girl is my life.......

Worried,

I agree with c. jackson at the point that not matter what point you are in the military nobodys gonna care that you wanna get out. That holds even more true in boot camp since alot of the people who hate life most in boot love it afterwards. Plus I also agree that by doing stuff like going UA in boot is a bad idea. During rifle week when I was in 2 recruits went UA and ended up going back to first training day. So unless you have your heart set on ELS I'd agree with graduating than either smoking pot or going UA and trying for a oTH. I'm currently in a some what simular situation I'm getting ready to turn myself in again for being UA since the first time they were just gonna send me back to training. I'm going to the brig by what I've seen with others it looks like it'll only be for a month. But I'm doing what i feel is right and jail time is a small price to pay for my own purposes. But basically if he can I'd say try to graduate than do somthing to get out would be in his favor in every aspect but he'll get a oth discharge. But anyways I wish him the best of luck. And he's already got alot of balls by my view cause he went to his DI's I waited till my training after boot to step up and say somthing. semper fi

OH Btw worried, tell him to stop trying to kill himself. Alot of people in the military has had serious thoughts of killing themselves. But you never admit to it or show it cause they frown upon suicide more than anything. If he keeps that up or says he's suicidal they'll think he's crazy and he'll end up in the brig with no shoelaces and anything else he could kill himself with taken away that way they can keep an eye on him. Suicidal tendencies is a great way to make life a living hell in the military. So he really needs to quit showing those. Peace

Wow, this is one of the most entertaining things I have read on the web for a while. I don't have the time to read every post you crying little bitches wrote. But I must say.. Listen to yourselves.. "Oh, fuck the navy, fuck the marines, and fuck the army..blah blah.. I did drugs and now they say i'm a piece of shit and treat me like i'm a kid..waahh waahh i deserve an honorable discharge because I learned to scratch my nuts...its no fair.." First of all, your are pieces of shit.. little crybaby pieces of shit for that matter.. I've been in the navy for 4 years.. It's the easiest job in the world if you pay attention to what your doing and take the initiative to learn a thing or two about a thing or two. And if your excuse is that you have a drug problem and its not your fault, then your right.. it is your fault.. get the fuck out and go back to sucking dick for coke. By the way, i want fries with that, you little cocksucker, ditch the pickle too. And for you wives or girlfriends out there that think your faggot ass boy toy is getting the shaft and it's not his fault, you are wrong also, tell them what they won bob.. A fabulous life with a good for nothing loser who thinks he's part of some military diabolical scheme to treat him like a shithead while the others do thier jobs, stay out of trouble and bank money. So yes, for all of you want to be losers... go UA, Smoke Crack, sniff the nose candy, go back to sucking dick for coke.. the money will be much better in my pocket... besides the cool people are sick of hearing you bitch when you come to work every day.

dave

Dave,
It is scum like you that makes the military what it is.

>It's the easiest job in the world

were you a nuclear reactor operator on a special operations fast attack submarine?

>and take the initiative to learn a thing or two about a thing or two.

Funny that. A large part of my hating my life in the navy was not what I was allowed to do or learn, but the fact that others thought it was OK to say it was wrong to exercise or read or sleep.

>drug problem

giving me exceptionally reduced oxygen levels is drugging me.

>i want fries with that

I bet this year my income is at least 5 times what yours is (maybe 10 times). In fact I will probably give away more money than you earn this year.

>while the others do thier jobs, stay out of trouble and bank money

I bet this year my income is at least 5 times what yours is (maybe 10 times). In fact I will probably give away more money than you earn this year.

Yeah, yeah, your making millions now.. congrats..

Your still a whining pussy.

No I am not making millions...more the point that your focus on money is a bit ignorant, as most people in the military don't make much.

Hey Dave maybe these guys are whining pussies, unfortunately this is as close as you'll get to some pussy. So play nice before I out your faggot ass.

Tired of yourshit dave on November 4, 2005 11:02 AM

Sure jackson...Do what you need to do to feel like you've gotten something accomplished..My life will go on.

Hey Dave, I am slightly impressed you were able to figure out that last post came from me as I did not sign it. Nevertheless I want you to consider this. There are many sad stories on this websight that understandably draws out the worse in guys like you who have done everything the correct way. I applaud your years in uniform and I wish you continued success. For the sake of those who are unable to defend themselves I felt the need to write what I did because eventhough my life is going swimmingly well I experienced some rough times while I was in uniform and I made some bad decisions only I was responsible for. In retrospect I guess your words hit a little too close to home for me. I screwed up and ended up with an OTH. I was an OS and a Surface Warfare Specialist, Two deployments and a yard period. Pistol and rifle expert. National Defense. Cold War medal and Navy Achievement medal and Salior of the Quarter twice. I did it right until I lost focus and started down a road I will forever regret. These guys on this websight are mostly 20 years old or younger and are making bad decisions as I did when I was their age. I'm not asking you to cut them any slack but, I am respectfully requesting you not make those all encompassing remarks which directs them to suck dicks and labels them all as pussies. Some of these guys have legitimate problems and they come to this websight looking for help and in some cases guidance. I had a long and hard struggle to get my life back on the right course. If I can help someone avoid the pitfalls I ran into then I feel duty bound to assist them. I apologize to you for writing what I did but your words were so hateful and damning. I know you have the right to say what you feel. I, you and many others have served this country to give you the right to do so. All I'm asking is that when you are on this websight remember there are those who are one bad decision away from screwing up the rest of their lives. Before you shitcan the lot try to impathize a little. Sorry if I offended you. Fair winds and following seas shipmate.

Hey, I just found this site, as I was given an OTH for misconduct (positive piss test), which fell right after I was medically determined to have Borderline Personality Disorder. They were going to let me out "convenience of the Navy" style, but then OTHed me after the drug test came back. Is there any way for me to upgrade my Discharge? I only want it for my GI Bill, which, since I paid for that mother fucker, I ought to get back. Any suggestions?

wow jackson maybe your not so bad after all HA!

Holly, I have been hesitant, hoping someone would answer your question. I know you can go to the VA and speak with a Vet Rep and get answers to your questions. All those guys aren't bad. Some of them because of the very nature of their job understand how easily the military gives out OTH's. It's like the rubber stamp discharge they give out when a problem they don't want to deal with exists. They are just passing you down the line to the next poor slob who is left with cleaning up the mess they should have. I think it's your right to find out what happened to monies you paid into the G I Bill. You may have forefitted that cash by the type of discharge you received. I am not sure but a Vet Rep should and can help you out. Be assertive, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Good luck Holly.

I received my discharge July 8, 1994. A day I will forever remember long after I forget when my children's birthdays are. I was a little hesitant to post anything on this site after reading Dave's message, but his attitude is one I have dealt with before. That is why I lie about my discharge. But it cuts deep every time I add a fictional year to my service date and say I received an Honorable Discharge. I know I messed up and I knew I was doing something wrong when I did it. I take full responsibility for my actions but don't feel I have to pay for it forever. I tried to upgrade my discharge several years ago, but came up unsuccessful. Now I have been told I have only one more opportunity to upgrade and I have to report to a board in person. Hell I don't know if it is even worth it anymore. But I can say to anyone who asks, it would have been much easer to do things right and received an Honorable Discharge than taking the other path and receiving an OTH. Life would have turned out a little different.

>it would have been much easer to do things right and received an Honorable Discharge than taking the other path and receiving an OTH. Life would have turned out a little different.

I wonder if some of the over 2,000 dead in the Iraq war for oil were thinking similar thoughts while they were bleeding to death.

you can't have your years back...really no point in dwelling on what might of been when you can be doing something cool :)

I am glad I found this web site. I recieved an oth in 2003 for positive ua. But I have also been hired by companies that knew I got an oth. Today I apply for another company and didn't mention my oth hoping it would just slip by. Now they are doing a background investigation and I am worried that they will say I lied since I failed to mention it. I worry about my oth all the time. I only fucked up once in the Navy and it was the first and final time. The only thing I know is that the oth is from a mistake I made, but it isn't who I am, and there are people and companies out there that know that. I hope you all can find them and carry on. I'm trying to.

U can really just tell um your Gay?, i'll try that. the navy sucks.bump u to the guy tapping my shipboard E mail. i'll kiss a dude i dont care, i wont suck dick or nothing, like do i have to prove im gay, like buy a gay moive or somthing? i leta guy suck my dick one time cuz i was doing an ungodly amount of shards, stuff happens, someone get back to me tanks

U can really just tell um your Gay?, i'll try that. the navy sucks.bump u to the guy tapping my shipboard E mail. i'll kiss a dude i dont care, i wont suck D*** or nothing, like do i have to prove im gay, like buy a gay moive or somthing? i leta guy suck my dick one time cuz i was doing an ungodly amount of shards, stuff happens, someone get back to me tanks

On second thought i think Im going to try to go from the navy to the army, im a really good shot and even if i miss i deserve to die ( legaly anyway) but someone get back to me about the telling them your gay thing? will they kick u out for that, i might still to that. u think everyone that wanted to get out would try that first, unless they really just dont wana lie, sorry i posted twice BTW, sorry i cuzst 2 tanks

okay, my husband went to mast today for personal charges on his goverment credit card. This is his third time to mast in 3 or so years for different reasons. Well from what I understand his cmc hates him and he got his way. He was given a general administrative seperation. PLEASE tell me what the heck that means. Unlike alot of ppl on here he doesnt want to leave the military. Do we have any recourse at this point in the game?

Um, im in the navy in Japan, they got me separated from my wife cuz I got married after a school and didnít tell anybody, I want to get out really bad to be with her, should I smoke week and tell um I did, if u do get an OTH do u think they can tell it was for drugs? What should I do? My life sucks with out her, they said I shouldnít have got married and I canít bring her cuz im not e-4 and my rate (PC) is locked out so I canít make e-4, can I tell um Iím gay?, thanks for getting back to me when u do

i really hate being in the navy i feel alot of anger i never felt before i joined. i would like to know how do i go about getting out the rite way before i do something stupid?????

MiNus, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Your wife can come to Japan, just not on Uncle Sam's nickle. You are e-3, in three months you make enough to fly your wife over and rent an apartment. If you really want to be with your wife badly enough you'll find a way that doesn't include screwing up your life. Think before you fuck up a good thing. How are you going to take care of your wife and possible kids if you get booted out of the military. I'm not saying you can'y make it but it only gets harder with an OTH. Fly her over if only for a week. She will love seeing a country like Japan and you will get to see your beloved wife.
Marlon Essex, Why do you hate the Navy? What is it about the Navy that has you up in arms? I am inclined to believe it's not the Navy but the people over you. Your next duty station could be wonderful. How do you deal with the NCO's and officers over you until then? Wait and see before you do something stupid. There is a tomorrow and you don't want to mess up your future. I am not trying to be holier than thou. I am not saying you aren't experiencing rough times. But, doing something now you will regret later on is not very bright shipmate. Not trying to tell you how to live your life but please don't make the mistakes and bad choices so many on this websight have. Including me. Think shipmate.

The only mistake and bad choice I made was joining the Army. My OTH is the best thing that ever happened to me in that regard.

Tsnuffy, I am really happy for you. I too received an OTH and for a while my life was in the crapper because of it. Suffice it to say it took me a long time to put it in it's propper perspective. I am not happy with my OTH but it doesn't have the same affect on me it use to. The next time you post why don't you tell these other guys how you overcame what everyone else seems to consider a death nail. The military isn't for everyone and some really suffer once they realize the mistake they made. You sound like you have benefited from wise choices since your discharge. I am really glad you had the where withall to succeed in spite of your OTH. Good luck and continued successes.

walt disney got a bcd for doing donuts on the base commanders front lawn in a car and even displayed the document upside down on the wall of his office while he would be sitting on his desk every sunday evening on camera back in the day. look up walt diney bcd

Tim your right Walt Disney did my DI in boot told up about that. In fact the rapper Mystical has a less than honorable discharge 2 for smoking pot.

Need some help, I just got out of boot camp and I don't want to go back, need some advise on not getting caught or how badly do the look for you? etc.

Jay, they barely look for you. The most they'll do is call your house a couple of time and/or send a letter. And if you get caught I've found that the punishment is the same eitherway. So basically don't do nothing stupid and you'll be fine. Good Luck man.

Aaron, thanks for giving me the piece of mind I've been searching for for the past 6 years.
I and others like me have guilt, but know that it was the right decision to make in the end.
Rather than gunning down an NCO with a 240G machine-gun.
Your site has lifted a great burden off my shoulders.
Get that book out already.

grunt be gone on November 14, 2005 3:25 PM

You know i just read this site and i dont have an oth. navy in japan for a long long time. i am out here in about 16 days. i got my honorable, big deal.
Since i have been on this ship, i have seen my chief, yes that is right an E7 go to mass for sticking up for his people. He let his people off work when there was nothing to do. No shit hones. i know exactly how it is for all of you navy guys that got the short end of the stick. Im not saying doing drugs is a good thing but you all seem to know you made a mistake. I hate it, thats why im getting out. Tired of the politics, people stepping on you to get rank, other idiots like that dave fuck up there who by the way has probably has his head so far up his division officers ass you cant tell where one ends and the other one starts. You know he probably has no respect from his juniors and the people above him. And is probably the first one who will run and cry if someone tells him what they think of him. Thats the new so called navy for you. the one i joined 11 years ago didnt seem to mind if you gave idiots like that a slap in the head. I even got one or two myself.
But i do agree with you jackson, to all of you that hate it so much, believe me there are people along side you that hate it as much as you do. you should just do your time and take advantage of every little thing you can find. hell let them pay for your college a little even though its only 12 credits a year, who cares if you make rank or not, at least you will have some thing to do while they are busy filling each others coffe and writing them selves up for awards. and you can laugh at them after you get out knowing that they cant hack a real job and are only good at trying to make themselves feel good at other peoples expense. I have seen many people come and go with an oth. and you know what, a lot of them thought they were fucked because of the idiots above them telling them they were. as long as you dont let anyone tell you how you wont ammount to shit because of it you will do fine. Just keep a decent outlook on things and it will be over fast and you can look back on it and laugh. but if you really do want to get out, actually the gay route is the way to go. you just have to deal with the rumors and shittalking just like any other small town that is a navy ship. There was a guy at my first command, no shit here...hit himself in the face with a frying pan, the next day he said he is gay and fears for his life. out in 2 weeks.
and believe me the bennies you get really arent that good. im moving to hong kong, they wont ship my stuff there, i cant use my home loan there, only my gi bill which is a bitch with the ammount of paperwork you have to do.
to those of you going to mass, do like it was said a few posts up. before you even go up go allot as much as you can to a different account. they cant take allotments.
to all of you guys that got kicked out or are getting kicked out because of some idiot who wants to make himself feel good about himself. There is an E5 getting out right now, because i am tired of it and i hate the way the military hang people out to dry and about a million other reasons i typed up and gave to my CO and XO and CMC when i checked out with them.

So i have been AWOL/UA/whatever you want to call it, for about 6 months from the USMC Reserves. They keep calling me to try to get me to come in and i just laugh. I got an email today from them that said thers a NEW rule that says: "if you dont come back to drill, you will get orderd to active duty and then if you dont come to that, the police or FBI will come get you. I am curious if this is true....im pretty sure its a lie from the stories i hear on here. Can someone confirm this....

I forgot to add that i haven't been to MCT or MOS because i was in the college split program (92K reservist) but i was actively drilling for about a year b4 i decided not to come due to personal reasons. All i really want is my OTH discharge. They have already come to my house to get my gear...i gave it to them and get out, but, they keep sending me certified leters in the mail but i refuse them becasue i dont know what they are. Anyone know what they might be? Its dumb that they have to drag it on forever....I also heard that you cant get your business license if you have an OTH....is this true. I want to start my own business soon.
Thanx for the help.
Please try to answer...i see a lot of unanswerd questions on here....just people telling a story.lol

Sam I am uncertain how true that story to active duty stuff is...but I would do a bit more research than reading a web page.

As far as running your own business with an OTH goes, of course you can. I am doing plenty fine on the financial front. Running your own biz is more about your own motivation than your discharge type

I have to agree with you aaron, I dont run my own business but i do operate as if i never received an oth. if you dont mention it many people dont need to know what is in your past. I give presentations to kids in hischool in the Drug Demand Reduction program with the us army and i wear my uniform and people treat me like a hero when they see my uniform and my medals. they dont need to know i have an oth and i dont tell them. dont ask dont tell fellas.

Can someone please try to answer my questions...there must be someone that is knowledgeable about the marine reserves.....?

I was in the Marines for 7 monthes and dropped dirty for .0009 ng of Cocaine can I some how get back in the Marines? Its been over a year almost.

That legend about Walt Disney is false, people:

www.snopes.com/disney/waltdisn/discharg.htm

" me too" I WAS IN THE NAVY FOR THREE YEARS AND SEVEN MONTHS,GOT AN O.T.H BECAUSE THREE OF MY FORMER SAILOR'S ON THE BOAT SAID THAT I WAS THE "HOOK UP MAN" FOR DRUGS. THEY SAID MY NAME BECAUSE I LIVED WITH THEM OUT IN TOWN. NEVER TESTED POSITIVE ON A DRUG TEST IN THE NAVY, YET I WAS FACING A SPECAIL COURT MARSHALL. i HAVE HEARD THAT THE ARMY WILL TAKE O.T.H. AFTER TWO YEARS IS THIS TRUE PLEASE HELP ME OUT...

I was wondering I am being sepertaed from the navy due to positve on pee test popped for thc. I had a admin board and got a general discharge. Long story short to what happen I was just wondering when you get a general discharge does it automatically upgrade to a honorable after 6 months? Also is there different kinds of general like with misconduct conditions. My board said there was misconduct but I get a general. Any help with this I don't have my sep code yet nor re code. But if anyone knows what I will be getting will help me thanks. How much longer does it take after you have your board that you are out? Months or days?

Um...I've supposedly "passed" a background check with a business that is closely watched or regulated by the federal government (aviation industry)...I got that OTH back in the day for failing pee test (along with 16 other engineers) I was a nuc, but had a 2.7 average that didn't make the academic cut...was sent to the fleet as a "fireman" E-1 and put in a 120 degree boiler room and on top of this I had my appendix rupture because the doc said I had to take a shit...I laid in my rack for two days writhing in pain ( I really lost all hope with the military after this)...this wasn't my job choice in the Navy, so I got out the way I knew how...I didn't say I was gay, but that makes great sense and would use that excuse today! I was the first person on my ship in five years to make BT 3 on my first try...my command loved me and offered rehab to stay in the Navy with nothing on my record ( refused to the dismay of my chain of command)...I say just lie about your discharge...just give your employers the dd214 without the discharge type on it or just don't mention it at all...move on...you're not bad or other than honorable person...I do have one question though... my employer is trying to get a military fueling contract...am I allowed to work as an employee of someone that has a federal / military contract? This is a neat site.

I'm really thinking about smoking pot and getting out of the Navy. Does anyone know how long it would take to get processed out? I'm sick of these power abusing bastards. Thanks!

I just wanted to ask if one get's a dirty pee test for cocaine are they gauranteed to be discharged from the marines, or if they try their hardest is it possible one would be allowed to stay? if they are forced to stay how long would they have to wait to be discharged? and would one have to go to the brig ??? thanks so much

Hey guys, I am a Lawyer, and got an OTH from the Marines. I understand what you guys have been through and what you are going through. I wanted to respond to the posts about telling the military you are gay to get a more favorable discharge. Myself, I would rather get an OTH before I had to explain later on my discharge for being a homo. All of you except dishonorable dischares are eligible for Student Aid. I took out Government loans to go to Law School. Just think positive, make things happen, you can change your destiny, and after you have accomplished things your OTH will matter less and less, and as I said before, when people realize and respect your accomplishments, the OTH takes on a wholy different light, and people even find it very interesting. In fact, when I applied to Law School, I had 3.3 G.P.A. in business administration, and obtained this degree working full time in five years. I disclosed my OTH on my Law School applications. One of the A.B.A law schools, you should only go to A.B.A approved, because some firms look down on non A.B.A., offered me a $10,000 dollar scholarship because of my significant life experiences. Of course getting government Jobs will always be tough, but the private sector almost always pay much more than Government jobs, at least if you have a degree. And if an employer meets you and likes you, they will be primarily concerned with your academic credentials. They will often focus more on post military conduct, and what you have done with your education. Before,I went to Law School, landed a management job in accounting with Pacific Enterpries, the holding company at that time of Southern Califronia Gas. I disclosed my OTH discharge up front. Six months later human resources wanted to fire me claiming I lied about having been convicted of a crime. An OTH is not a conviction. Anyway human resources fired me anyway, but my boss and higher level managers in my department were furious. In desperation, I called Camp Pendelton, and requested to speak with Chief legal councel Major Canham. To my suprise he took my call, and agreed to take time out of his busy day to write a brief explaining the OTH was not a conviction. Having experienced writing briefs, I know this took him at least a couple of hours. I took the brief to my boss who turned it over to human resources. I immediatley got my job back, and the Human Resource person got reprimanded, and was almost fired herself. It seems ironic that the USMC who kicked me out, then saved my job. My department was behind me 100%, did not care about my discharge and I was promoted soon thereafter. Also, every body thought it was interesting. Many saw a Few Good Men, and assumed I got a got a raw deal. Most people are skeptical about military justice anyway. When I resinged my position, to go to Law scool, my department threw me a lavish party at one of the most expensive restaurants in Los Angeles. So guys think positive, think success, and it will happen. In addition for those of you who want back in, your opportunity may soon arise. The military continues to miss their enlistment quotas, and we are going to be in Iraq, a long long time. At this moment congress is considering raising the enlistment age to 42, they are relaxing their standards. Soon we will have to implement a draft, or re-consider OTH's with minor disciplinary actions. And even if they do that, that still might not be enough. The war on terror is going to get much, much, worse before it gets better. Also, for my fellow Jarheads, if you really want back in, but can't at the moment, consider the French Foreign Legion, you don't have to speak french, they expect you to learn it as you go, and those boys are farmed out all over the world, basically French Mercanaries for hire, and you will see combat. One in ten are killed their first enlistment, and over half will have been wounded.

Eric, I really appreciate your comments. I was near suicidal when I was tossed out. I was sailor of the quarter and promoted 4x's in three years. I was rewarded for towing the company line. Then when I began to crack under the pressure of family life versus military life they kicked me to the curb. I felt like a loser and thought I would never amount to anything. Oh what a difference a new way of thinking makes. When I changed my way of thinking my life immediately began to change. This may not seem like much to you but I am proud of you for the decisions and choices you have made since your discharge. There are many who visit this website looking for a way back in. It's like trying to get back with a girl that dumped you. You end up looking like a fool for someone who cares nothing for you. Maybe one day the powers that be will reconsider their ways and allow our brothers in arms who left under oth's to reenter the military. I doubt it but who's to say. Your words have strengthened my resolve to continue to improve my lot in life in spite of my oth. Thanks for sharing.

C. Jackson, I'm trying to upgrade my RE code to at least a RE-3 I served in the Army till about seven weeks into my AIT. It was a shitty situation for me at the time....not the Army just what was going back at home, they screwed up my orders and gave someone else my duty station in Germany and I ended up with Korea. It would'nt have mattered except I was engaged and was expecting my first son at the time. (Back in 1999 is when I served) That put alot of pressure on me as we were looking forward to Germany and when i got the orders for Korea she freaked and came to Ft. Knox to see me, it could'nt have a worse time. I think now that if she would have just stayed away and let my battle buddies talk some sense to me I would've stayed in and went to Korea with my friend Chattam, but as they say hind sight is always 20/20. Right now I'm married to my best friend since my teens and she is in the air force, we are stationed @ Moody AFB and everytime I see her in those BDU's I get envious, for me it was'nt the service at all, just what was going on in the background of my life. I was 18 and can easily say I was immature, I joined too soon, There are alot of assholes in right now that spit insults at me and my fellow OTH'ers but let me say this: I can outshoot most, run just as fast, and hack any damn terrain with a 80 pound ruck as good as the next guy. I know there has to be some sort of pile of papers building up at the Army Review board for guys and gals just like me that want back in, something has got to give since this year was the worst for the Army's recruiting goals since the 70's I don't understand how the National Guard can get Navy RE-4's back in but not Army, My cousin that served in the Army for 23 years (E-7 Former Drill Sarge) once told me it ALL boils down to the recruiter. When I was in AIT we had this Pvt.Fowler who had gotten in with 3 Felonies, our CO said "how did you get here?!" All he said was "I had a good recruiter" I thought that I had found one and we did get the ball rollin' but I suspect that his CO told him to drop me. Basically I want back in the Army only this time through the Nasty Guard and I want to serve one year with the get the Honorable the Reelist Air Force so My wife and I can both be in, If it works out I'll already be E-2 from the NG the go for 6 years AF and start out E-3 with them. I always here airman complaining about the Air Force or Moody AFB, let me tell ya, It's not that hard there OR in the Air Force, Moody AFB is like a slice of heaven compared to Ft. Knox! Got any Advice C. Jackson? I yearn to serve again

C. Jackson, thanks for the reply, your family is the most important job you could ever have. Anything you do should be focused on helping your family. Even though I am an Attorney, and highly educated, more than most officers, I have started to realize what is important in our short life. Most important is family, everything else is secondary. I think most of us who got booted out, would like another opportunity to make things right. This is because we are patriotic. However, as I have been watching the men and women coming back from Iraq missing limbs, horribly disfigured and dead, I feel humble, and ashamed for wanting to be there. I support the war, but not for the reasons of that idiot in the white house. I am 40 years old now, but I am in better shape than any 20 year old I know. I have been studying the martial arts as well, for the hope of having a shot at combat. I have never been able to understand this desire, It is not because I want to kill, but it is because killing is required, an evil, to prevent a greater evil. The point being, we should cherish our children and families, and what is left of our Republic, which is not much, in order to maximize our potential on this earth. The time shall surely come when we all will face our maker, and the only thing that will matter then is how did I live my life. I would urge everyone on this website to pray for our fellow brothers and sisters in arms, who are coming back from Iraq with broken bodies, and thank them for there sacrifice. Much much more sacrifice is going to be required. Jackson, your discharge does not amount to a hill of beans. Your family is far more important. I beleive that we are going to see an escelation of hostilities from Islamic extremists for a long time. I am ready to fight now, as most of us on this website are, and I believe the time may soon come. Be thankful for what you have, be thankful for your family, and pray for the dead and wounded coming home from Iraq.

Hey, C Jackson, I read one of your posts to Joe Navey. I really appreciated what you said. Life takes on a different meaning when you hold the hand of Marine who has lost his legs to the growing, or a 21 year old, who will never be able to take a normal crap. This is just the beginning. If Joe Navey had any balls whatsoever, he would re-enlist in the Marines and go out on their combat assingments. Then he can tell us all about how fucked up the guy who got office hours for under age drinking, or smoking a joint a month prior on leave, is when that Jarhead is blown in half trying to save his life, or jumped on a live grenade to save his friends.

Having studied military history, I can say this, the people like Joe Navey often perform the worst in combat. Frequently, it is the so called shit bird in garrison, who gets up off his ass when the shit hits the fan and starts putting rounds down range, showing the guy with the shiney boots who kisses ass what it takes to be a warrior.

Holley, I read your post and have one question before I go into what I want to write. Why are you asking me for advice? I am in the same boat as you. It doesn't matter what is on my sleeve (rank) or what is on my chest (medals), I want back in as bad as you. I, like you only want to serve my country and all I want out of it is an honorable discharge. You have an oth and are married to someone on active duty? I never heard of a situation like that before. As far as my knowledge of recruiters go, your friend was steering you in the right direction. Recruiters are like lawyers in that some don't take certain cases because to them it's not worth it. Your case is not impossible but recruiters don't have to burden themselves with cases they are not likely to win. Just like civilians looking for a lawyer to handle their case, you have to find one who believes in you and your case to go the extra mile on your behalf. It wont be easy but it's not impossible. Even if the NG takes you there is no garuntee the AF will after your 6 years are up in the reserves. Holley, I am no expert. I do not posess some hidden wisdom you guys don't have but, you are a prime example of the military being too punitive. When you are 18 you tend to be more susceptible to outside influences as you said you were in your post. I feel as long as you did not break some unforgivable law you shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of your life. Good luck on finding a recruiter who wont lie to you and has the stamina to follow through with what will be a difficult task. I can't imagine what it must be like for you being surrounded everyday by people in uniform knowing how badly you want back in. Maybe seeing them is the motivation you need to continue your quest. Just like Eric said, the rules may soon be changing as to the requierments for getting back in. Keep yourself clean and out of trouble and be assertive. Keep calling different recruiters until time and circumstance is in your favor. That's all I have for you. Again, good luck.

Ok, here's my story. If you can help, please contact me.

I was in the Army National Guard. In the guard, if 12 muta points (basically, 12 days of drill) are counted as AWOL then you get OTH. I refused to go to drill because I complained about sexuall harrassment and my chain did nothing. Specifically, another soldier said that when I had my child that he would 'beat her up' because I was such a slut. I have never felt so discriminated to be pregnant in the military. When I complained, my command was so ineffiecent, nothing happened, the other guy got promoted, and my whole unit hates me because I'm the one who talked. My husband told me that I did not have to take this discrimination crap, and that I should just try and get out. They would not accept family hardship. My daughter was 12 months old by the time I realized that seeking hardship would not get me out. Seeing no other choice, I stopped going to drill. I had heard from other people in the unit (I joined with my highschool bud) that I would be discharged after missing this last drill, but I have not recieved a certified letter or one phone call to that effect. I know they have my correct phone number. So if your unit does not even attempt to contact you, can they discharge you with AWOL? I do not wish to contact them since that could complicate everything.

I also want to say that if you are in the guard, what commonly happens is that people go there for four years and get their school paid, and then they disappear. The guard does nothing about it. You have to turn in your gear, but you do not have to pay back for your schooling or your bonuses. Depending how much funding is federal or state, they can only legally recoup federal tuition assistance, but that is only if they really want to go through the paper work. Most guard units are so ate up that they will not do the extra work.

Has anyone else heard anything else about your status changing through other means that DD 293 or contacting your representative?

Thanks for this site.

Sit, I read your post and I have a few questions for you. Does your command have a good impresion of you? Their reluctance to contact you may be their way of giving you a chance to make this right. Why don't you at least call them and check out your status. Secondly, why did you stop with your harrasment claim at your command level? Something that serious calls for going over someone's head to get the desired results. I know first hand how the good old boy network operates. If you don't scream, they wont holler. If at all possible do all you can to avoid an oth. Tell them your hormone levels were wrong and it affected your thought process. Tell them something to get them back on your side just to get what you want. If it is your desire to get out then just stay away and it will happen naturally. Your story reminds me of my younger brother. He stopped going to drill also and never went back. They aren't actively looking for him but he is running scared. I would hate for you to fall into that same catagory. Either go back and face the music or get yourself a good lawyer and get some real advice from someone who only wants to help you. You have choices but I gather you don't know what they are. So, ask someone who does, make a call to the VA or write a letter to your CO and find out what you should do before too much time passes and the outcome is out of your hands.

Can anyone tell me after you have an admin board and the verdict was general but seperating how long does it take to be seperated and out completely? I really need to know since christmas is around and I have a family I need to know where we will be if we will be stuck where we are at or will be at our home town. Any help???

Well, I like to think that my chain has a good impression of me. I also thought that they hadn't contacted me because they were on my side. It is the soldiers who are at my level who do not like me since I 'ratted out' on 'one of us'. I actually worked in the armory with my chain, and I know that they're good guys, and they did what they could to stop the harrassment without airing their dirty laundry. So I don't want to get them in trouble because of lower level assholes that make my life hell. I know that it's part of their responsibility, but it's also their repsonsibility to call me or try and give me some counseling rather than just let me slip off their books. I'm afraid that if I were to come up now, after I've missed the drills, and start talking about my mistreatment that they would just make an example out of me, and see it as a double-cross since most of chain gets along with me. The other thing is that in the last two years, there have been 11 females that have come and gone. Either they got family hardship, OTH, ELS, or transferred. There is only one female remaining. I think that could really help my case in showing that I am not misrepresenting what I think is wrong (the mine vs. their word scenario)because there is a negative environment for females, but again, I'd get my chain in a lot of trouble, when I want the lower assholes in trouble. I talked with my husband about going to JAG right now and bitching to get something other than OTH, but he thinks that dragging things out could possibly put me back in the military and create more problems for me. He thinks that if I ever want to work for the government or go into politics I should try and take care of the OTH, if it is barring me from what I want to do, then. However, he also said that he'd support whatever I'd want to do, but I'm scared to be crucified so that they can cover their own ass. What I am going to do is talk to an old recruiter friend of mine, talk to JAG, and the GI Rights Line to see if what I'm doing is the right thing.

Thanks for the advice. Keep the site up.

I realized that my first post looks differnt than my second: when I first complained, there was a competent 1SG, but then he left, and then when I complained about the harrasment that I was facing daily from other soldiers because of my initial complaint the new 1SG and CO did nothing. When they came in, a lot of people left male & female.

There are still enough of my chain that are perhaps trying to help me out by not calling me, but if I were to make a case that is one of the reasons why I'd say that I do not deserve OTH (no counsel or chance to reform)

Anyway, thanks again.

Hey Slt, sounds like you are willing to fall on your sword for the good of others who didn't support or defend you when you needed it most. In any event it sounds like you have your head on straight. I wont comment on what I think about what your post said. But, I will tell you that you seem more concerned about those who should have been looking out for you. Do you remember that movie A few good men? At the end harrold says "we were wrong because we should have protected the young Marine they had killed because he was the weak one"? Well, your chain should have done something when they saw a pattern of leaving by the other females. One more thing, in order to get an oth they have to show a pattern of misbehavior. By missing drill so many times you now fit that pattern. Good luck Slt.

Sorry for all these posts but, alot of things came to mind when a looked at this web site. I forgot the name of the guy who could not get a gun permit but those who told him he could not get one may be wrong. First, under our constitution, the third amendment, we all have the right to bear arms. The first ten Amendments to the constitution are know as the bill of rights. The rights are the highest rights to be protected under our system. Gun permits are typically on denied to ex-felons, people convicted of domestic violence, and those persons subject to restraining orders for domestic violence, and also those with certain mental problems. An OTH is not a constitutionally recognized conviction, because these are administrative actions, you do not get a jury and the full protections of the laws of evidence, may not apply, and therefore the OTH by itself can never be considered a conviction of any crime, felony or misdemeanor. However, if the underlying misconduct that is the basis for the discharge is criminal, possessing or using drugs, assault, battery ect., this may be the basis for the denial of the gun permit. HOWEVER YOU HAVE TO BE CONVICTED OF ONE OF THESE CRIMES. THIS MEANS YOU HAVE TO BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME, PROVIDED LEGAL ASSISTANCE AND GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A TRIAL.
IF YOU WAIVE TRIAL AND PLEAD GUILTY TO A MISDEMEANOR OR FELONY TO AVOID A GNERAL OR SPECIAL COURT MARTIAL, IT WILL BE TREATED AS CONVICTION.However, if the charge was a misdemeanor, this will not bar you from owning a weapon, it has to be a felony or one of the other exceptions listed above. The only other way you could be denied a gun permit is if there is a federal statute out there that bars you. I am not currently aware of any, because like I said, if you are not given your full constitutional protections under the UCMJ, it would be unconstitutional.

I would like to make an additional statement, regarding the shit bird, arising to the occasion in combat. The Movie the Thin Red Line illustrates this well. In that movie the shit bird who goes AWOL later sacrifices himself for his company, the ultimate act of love. The captian of his Company is later relieved of his command, for refusing to follow the commanding officers orders, that would of got his men butchered. In the end, the captain was right, but in the end, his was punished for his courage. I am sure many of you are familiar with Chesty Puller, the most highly decorated Marine in history. He did not kiss ass, and stepped many of his superiors toes. Had he not been such an outstandiing tactical commander, although some think he was a butcher, many think he may have been court martialed for insubordination. I am sure he would have been if it was not for the war.
Lastly, alot of you guys feel you were treated unfairly, and many of you probably were. However, having practiced law for several years, I know realize there is massive corruption within our court system. When I was in law school, I saw a documentary with a couple high profile defense attorneys who stated the closer you get to the system, the less faith you have in it. I have seen many injustices performed by corrupt judges. I have seen judges conspire with law firms to try to ruin civilian careers. I have seen honest men convicted of ridiculous crimes that they were innocent of, and have their careers ruined. If the American people as a whole really knew how corrupt our court system is they would be scared, and demand change. England, Germany, and France are probably just as corrupt, but over the years it has been a big dissapointment to me to see the cancerous corruption in our courts. If you guys had seen what I have, beleive, your OTH is by far a less impediment, than you might think.

im currently on restriction right now. 45/45 admin sep. most likely OTH coming my way. maybe general? if im lucky. i have been to captains mast twice and they decided to kik me out for pattern of misconduct. this shit so embarrasing i have peers watching. i cant even tell my parents bout my situation. Eric. when u apply for colleges they ask you if you ever served in the military. wat are circumtances for having OTH. only reason i joined the navy was to get my gi bill. i fucked myself over. navy is nothing i expected. its a joke. now im getting out pretty soon. legal officer gonna tell me wat kind of discharge im getting pretty soon. im thinking OTH. i communicated a threat to a guy in my work center. i got my mind forward on education. i wanna get my bachelors no matter wat. even getting education is hard for people with OTH? im not telling my parent bout my discharge. so i gotta get the degree on my own. would i get approved for a loan.

one more question for eric. would it be smart to say i was in the navy when i apply for a job. i just got my apple technician certification. and i dont wanna fuk this one up. i put a lot of effort getting this. if i land this job it will help me go to school part time on my own. i got so many questions but i got nobody to ask. eric u seem like a educated man who knos wat you talking bout. help me out. i still dont know if im getting OTH or general. general discharge= is it same as getting fired from a job. i dont know. ill wait for your reply. thanks

T. Kim, an OTH will not bar you from college money. I have been where you are at, and know exactly what you are going through. First, an OTH will not bar you from student loans or grants period. You still qaulify for all student aid any civilian would. What's more, you will also be entitled to vetran preferences as you still will qaulify as a vetran. I believe you will lose your G.I. bill benefits, but you will still qaulify for Pell Grants, Stafford Loans, and State Grants, in addition to whatever vetran preferences
you may qaulify under your state laws. The Pell Grants, Stafford Loans, and other state grants will provide you with enough for tuition and books, and some living expenses, but you probably will have to work part time to help with your rent and food. I would strongly encourgage you to apply to state schools as they are cheaper. You may not have the desire now, but later you may consider going to graduate school. I would encourage to work your ass off to maintain a highe G.P.A., because it will open better companies to you, and graduate school such as MBA, LAW, PhD, or Doctor. Also, if you do want to go to graduate school one day, this is expensive, and the cheaper the undergrad, the easier for graduate school.

I know it is embarrassing to get an OTH. Nobody really understands what it is. They think Other than Honerable means Dishonerable. In fact, an OTH by itself is nothing compared to a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable, but the average person has no idea. Legally, an OTH without any underlying criminal convictions assocciated with it, is the equivalent to a speeding ticket, non criminal in nature. Again most people do not know this. As far as disclosing your OTH, you need to use your judgement. There were jobs when I first got out of the military that I did not disclose it since I though it would be prejudicial. However, after I graduated from Business School, and was applying for accounting jobs, I did disclose because I thought they would do a background check anyway. This was the Job with Southern Californa Gas, in which I was fired and re-hired because the the humane resource manager thought my OTH was a conviction. However, had I not disclosed this I would have never been erroniously fired, and there is a good chance they would have never found out about. However, had I wished to make a carreer out of the job, which could have taken me far, I would not have had to worry about lying on my application.

The higher your G.P.A. the higher your education, and the more qaulifications and outstanding credentials you have, the less your discharge will matter. Also, you might want to go through a couple employment agencies and tell one about your OTH, and not tell the other, and see what they do for your. In addition, pay attention to how either the emlpoyment agency, recruiter, or whatever, reacts towards you. If you are clean cut, smart, nice, and easy to get along with, they may go out on a limb for you. Once you get a couple good years with a good employer, you will find it easier and easier to find work.

The job market in the U.S. is getting more favorable for young people because of the larger older population retiring, and fewer young people. Also, it may be ironic, but as the need for recruitment increases, it is going to make civilian jobs more and more competitive, and easier for vetrans with OTH's to find work.
I would get in college as soon as you can, because I am of the opinion that the Federal Financial Aid is not keeping up with inflation, and the Federal Government, in order to get more recruits, is going to cut, which it is now considering, or not increasing financial aid in order to force more people into the military.

Lastly, I do not know what the facts of your situation, but if you are on Captain Bligh's ship, I know I spelled Bligh wrong, you may have some good stories that at you could use to your advantage. Each state has different financial aid, so although you will still qaulify for all civilian Federal Financial Aid, and vetran's preference for most state aid, every state is a little different.

Hell, Jim Carey was nominated for the Democratic Candidate for president, and most of what I have read indicates he got, or should have got, an OTH. President Bush was basically a deserter, failed to take his medical exam, failed to show up for duty, and and there are serious questions as to why he was not court martialed. What's more he was in the Air National Gaurd when they typicaly did not see combat, there was a draft then.

Keep a positive attitude, work hard, get good grades, finish your education, and you will do fine.

I meant John Carey, not Jim, and sorry for the typos.

Anyone help me out how long does it take to get seperated after you had an admin board?

Aaron, I appreciate this web sight. This sight is a great sounding board, that can help people cope. Also, I would be more than happy, since I am a Lawer, to give free legal advice to specific questions to all the OTH bretheren.

Here is some more info on Federal Education Benefits and an OTH. Like a mentioned before, an OTH does not disqaulify from federal student aid. Currently you can borrow up to $18,500 a year in stafford loans, and receive at least up to $5,000 a year for Pell Grants. Pell Grants are free money for college, you your income qaulifies you. Every state offers additional assistance. In California, we have call grants, in addition to Pell Grants, and numerous other scholarships. I went to Cal-Poly Pomona, and graduated with a B.S. in business, accounting. At that time the tuition was $250 A qaurter, and we were complaining about that. Now I beleive it is $600 a qaurter. I went to SouthWestern Law School, in Los Angeles, a Middle of the Road A.B.A. approved law school downtown. When I went there, because it is a private school, tuition was $18,500 a year for full time. Now it is $30,000 a year. As I mentioned earlier, the costs of education are skyrocketing, but Congress has not increased financial aid, loans and grants to address the huge increses over the last several years, and whats more, Bush is trying to cut Pell Grants, and Stafford Loans. As I mentioned before, I beleive this is a ploy to force more young people into the military for college money.

I also beleive that our military currently is grossly undermanned. Every expert on Nuclear and Biological, and Chemical warfare predicts a catastrophic attack, hunderes of thousands of casualties to be imminient and sooner than later
and believe me, when that happens it will be clear that we are going bring back the draft, and OTH's are going to be called back for not finishing their enlistments, thats why when you get out they require you to register with selective service.

Eric do you know the process of an adsep? How long does it take to get out after they tell you that you aer being seperated. See I was gettig out with an OTH discharge then had an admin board and recieve a general now all I'm waiting id for my orders to go back home how long is this process? Any help please.

My fiance is wanting to get out of the marine corps really bad and he is thinking of doing drugs..they were supposed to do a pee test but they didn't he graduates schooling soon. If he gets caught while he's no longer entry level will he be more severlly punished? or will he just get a OTH...he wouldn't go to the brig for just weed on a pee test would he??
thanks

I was also wondering if you had a time range of how long it takes to process someone getting out.
thanks again:)

I was also wondering if you had a time range of how long it takes to process someone getting out.
thanks again:)

RCF, the separation process may very from unit to unit. When I was separated from the Marines, I was stationed in the Fillipines. For drinking in the Baracks, and punching the corprol of the gaurd while I was on restriction, got a summary court martial, to be clear here a summary has the same legal effect as Office hours or Captains mass. After my admin board it took my about 3 months to get shipped back and separated. I thought this was long. It may have taken longer since I was stationed oversees, and we maybe a little short on manpower. Once you get sent to separations platoon, it will go fast usually a couple weeks. Also, it will depend on when your separations platoon, or unit is able to take you. It should be fairly quick. Alot will depend on how quickly they can get replacements, and backlog of paperwork if any. I had one Sergeant get all upset because the discharge process had been started and I had full liberty out in Olongopo for three months before I got sent to Seperations Platoon at Camp Pendelton. The answer is it depends.

Ashley, I would encourage your husband to read the posts on this site. Most the Marines and sailors on this site, would love to have another chance. Many service personell hate the military so bad they want to get out at all costs. However, many people, myself included wished they had not got kicked out. When I was in separations platoon at Pendelton, there were Marines in their third and fourth year of their enlistment, but got popped for drugs. Almost all the guys, just take a look at the Marines who had served the Majority of their in listment would do anything to do it all over. I think the first two years are to toughest because you are low man on the todem pole, and have to take constant crap from the senior enlisted, and and guys senior in time and grade. However, after about two years you become the more senior enlisted, and time in grade, and take alot less crap. Also commands very on discipline. I was stationed in the P.I., and this was very strict and boring duty. At least half the juys got written up for infractions on post in the Naval Magazine, for alot of petty stuf. I was the only Marine I am aware of that got and admin board and had a perfect record on post. Because of this even though I had a admin board, I was told that I could stay in, but this was my last warning, The first seargent, and my sqaud leader really stuck of for me. However, I wanted out so bad that I waived my admin board. The first seargent, and my sqaud leader were shocked, including the gunny could not beleive it. Then the Gunny gave me a really hard time for waiving the board to get our.
Ii I could do it again I would have stayed in. As I mentioned the duty was very strict. If you made it out in this command without any discipline you could write your ticket. One of the Marines I keep in contact, told me the fleet would have been perfect for me. Also I had a captain that told me he could not believe I got admin board, because in the fleet the duty was not as strict, and for the most part did not burn you for every little thing. Anyway, I would encourage your husband to tough it out. His next command may be alot better, and as I mentioned above, the longer you are in, for the most part, Marines become more tolerable. Even though your husband may at the moment, be at entry levl, he still will get an OTH if the if his conduct would merit an OTH Drugs will cearly make him a candidate for an OTH, There ares some exceptions for entry level separations, but at the moment I have not been able to find the document that referred to these exceptions From Secnavinst 1910.4. I will continue to try to find it, but as I said if the underling infactions are commited at entry level He most likely will get an OTH, and Maybe time in the brig.

Any more questions let me know, and I will follow on in the exceptions

Adios

I understand what you are saying about regretting it and I am really trying to push that subject in on him..but he "swears" he won't. I mean he's been talking about it for a while now I just don't know what to do? I mean it's like well he wants to come home I can see him everyday yess!! but then again if he stayed in then was killed in Iraq I would blame myself so bad for keeping him in. He already did the drugs and the random test after the 96 didn't happen so he wants to do it again but I don't know?? I'll end school in may so after that I can be with him...but he still says he can't handle it...any suggestions?
p.s. thanks for the answers
thanks

Thanks for helping I have been seperated from my command a little over a month and had admin board on Nov. 15th and recieve a general they told me I would have like 2 weeks well when I asked about it master chief said they haven't even sent my seperations packet in yet. I thought when you popped positive on pee test you are adseped immediately I have been knowing since August that i popped positive. So I did a little research and it says drug abuse adsep mandotory in 30 days well it is has been long over 30 days. Is it because I had my admin board and recieve a general they are not really worried about sending on my way out?

thanks for the reply eric. im all right on the education part. but i hope i land this job working for apple company. apple retail store as a technician. i just got this certificate recently. i dont know if they gonna background check me or not man. i dont know if i should or not tell them about my OTH. fuckin navy fucked me everyway. at least give a chance to make it outside world sons of bitches.

Ashley, I can understand the guilt you would feel if youe husband got killed in Iraq. A four star marine general said today, like have been telling everbody, we are going to be there a long time. On the other hand, we could be hit with a horrible terroist attack, so its not exactly safe here in our own country. As I said before, this war is going to get much worse before it gets better, so eventually he may be drafter back in, I think eventualy they are going to force OTH'S back in for not finishing their enlistment, and I think they make stiff penalties, even serious time in Levenworth if they screw around again. What is his MOS, School is always tough, I know ifantry training school was not that much better than boot camp. However, he may find his next unit is alot more tolerable. Anyway, if he is set on getting out, which I do not recomend, especially for drugs, the OTH is not going to have much of an effect on him if has a brain, and is willing to work hard.

Tae Kim, I have on thing to add. If you do not disclose your OTH, and this job ends up being your dream carreer, you will also run a risk of getting canned for not disclosing. Also, there are alot of unethical people who will step on anybody, lie and cheat to get ahead. So one of your rivals could try to get you in trouble. On the other hand you may not get hired for disclosing. If you know anybody who works at apple, I think it would be a good idea to have that person ask human resources how they would treat an OTH, and make they understand OTH is not BCD, or dishonorable. Or you might just want to call without at disclosing who you are, and ask their human resources their position on an OTH. You may find they don't really care, or their may be people in the company they also had a hard time in the military. I think most likely, Apple culture is going to be on the Liberal side, and just assume you got a raw deal.

Eric, I have been visiting this site for a few months now and I am intriuged by your answers to these posts. I wish you had been around in the mid 80's, I might still be in uniform if you were around. First let me introduce myself. I'll just give you my first initial for security reasons but, my name is C. Jackson and I am a Navy vet with an OTH. I was an OS3(SW) on both coast and I served mainly on AMPHIBS. I was popped on 4 wizz quizes. With a top secret clearance I should've been tossed out on my first one but my commands valued my work ethic and dedication. I was then sent to NDRC in Miramar at fighter weapons school. While there I was subjected to counselors who had NO experience with drugs who were trying what the Navy considered proactive treatment. Needless to say it was a joke and very ineffective. I was a drug addict since ny first of three deployments and could not at the time quit on my own. I have been drug free since 95 and my life has changed dramatically. I have worked at two airports, hospitals and one school board. Among other (respectable jobs). My OTH has not stood in the way of jobs, especially when I have been given the opportunity for an interview. I usually put General when asked about the nature of my discharge. If asked I go into detail and most people have been willing to take a chance on me after hearing my story. It has not been a factor for me thus far, but then I haven't tried to get jobs that require extensive background checks ie police, government etc. I think the advice you are giving is priceless and I would hope you continue to assist those with what seems to the imposssible problems. Their is life after an OTH, I am living proof as are you. I would not suggest anyone get an OTH if avoidable but if it is inevitable do not give in or give up. Chances are you are not what the military has labelled you. Thanks Eric for your willingness and time given to help us OTH'ers. That is what being in the military is all about. Watching out for your shipmate. Good luck Eric and continued success.
OS3(SW)C.Jackson. Fair winds and following seas.

He's going into Bulk Fuel which it doesn't seem to be that hard, academically, but he doesn't wanna "pump gas" I suppose. He said the military life just isn't cut out for him and he's talking about opening up an auto shop when he gets out so I figure if it's his own business he obviously wouldn't have a problem with it. He knows the consiquences (half of my family are marines including my dad) and I know they'll be dissapointed in him and he knows it too, but this is what he "really" wants. I think they'll be sending him to 29palms which he heard was in BFE and they are getting deployed in march, we find out for sure today. I still don't know I suppose it's up to him...I've had my say. I just really hope he doesn't go in the brig for marijuana on a pee test.
thanks again Eric:)

well finnaly got the boot, with my oth in hand....
funny thing is that i should still get my gi bill becuase i was on my second term. ive goto get ahold of the va and see if im eligible for disability. im gonna try to prove that the PTSD the shrink says i was suffering from caused me to self medicate. wish me luck

how u doin eric. have you ever try to upgrade your discharge? you bein a lawyer. dont you have all the resources that would help to challenge it.
right now im still on restriction. im gettin a civilian lawyer to help my case at the admin board. and if i still get an oth. im gonna fight after 6 month i get out. do you deal with any of this stuff at your work.

C. Jackson, thanks for the compliment. You are right that the OTH realy is not that big of an impedient, to success. Others have overcome much greater obstacles. Former president Truman was Bankrupt at 38, after borrowing money from his wife to set up an oil company. Unfortunately for him, he sold the company, and three months later that company struck oil. Shortly thereafter WW1 broke out, and he joined and as a captain, was decorated for his heroism. After the war, he was still strugling, when he was approached to run for office because of his war record. He was elected and the rest of history. Moral of the story do not give up. General Marshal, the supreme allied comander during WWII, also over came great obstacles. He was an average student in high school, and his older brother had been straight A's, and then went to West Point and graduated with honors. When George told his father he wanted to go to West Point, his brother was very hostile stating he though George would bring shame of the family. George went anyway, and Graduated first in his class. However, after being an officer in peace time for the first 20 years of his carreer, had not made rank, and was about to resign his comission to teach when WWI broke out. At one point General Pershing was inspecting the troops and totaly criticising them. Pershing was a strict authoritarian, and his staff was afraind of him. However, Marshal told Pershing that under the cirumstances he thought the men were doing remarkebly well. His staff horrified was even more suprised when Pershing immediately requested Marshal assinged to his staff, since he had the guts to speak his mind. The rest is history. Franklin Rosevelt spent his entire time as President, crippled but he manage to fake it so well, nobody realy knew until after he was dead. I mention these because, I believe these obstacles were much worse than an OTH. Also, I have been stating for the last two years that we do not have enough men in IRAQ, and will be there for a long time. The four star general yersterday, rather than kiss Bush's ass put it on the record that we are going to be in Iraq along time. I mention this because Congress wants to avoid a draft at what appears to be at all costs. I have a hunch that the within the next few years, Congress is basically going to draft all of us OTH's back to finish our enlistments. So those who really want to be back in may get their chance, of course I also think they are going to make clear, if my prediction is correct that the OTH's are going told in no uncertain terms that they will finish their enlistments on active duty, or finish it in Leavenworth, kind of like the Dirty Dozen scenario.

Anyway, keep up the good work. Your posts also help people realize that an OTH really is not much of an impediment.

Adios

Aaron m, check out the website www.va.gove/pub/vbab/vbaed.htm, This appears to be current as to December 2005, and indicates an OTH will not qaulify you for the Montgomery G.I. Bill. You are correct, you will still remain eligible for other benefits, such as V.A. loans, but I beleve they consider vetrans with other than honorable discharges on a case by case basis.

Tae Kim, I am not a military lawer as a speacialty primarily because I don not live reasonably close to a military base. I have attempted to get my discharge up graded but it is much tougher than most people think. One common rumor is you can get a mandatory upgrade after six months. I do not know why this is still a rumor because it is false, and I heard the same rumor I when I was in. The standard for upgrade is tough. You have to show that you were treated unfairly by your command, and that the discharge you were given cleary does not match the conduct. If there is any basis that your command indicated, would warrent the dishcarge you lose. There always exeptions, political, or family military influence on the board if you if high enough in rank. Case on Point, John Carrey. In my particular situation I did attempt to up grade my discharge. However, my infractions may have not been treated as harsh in the fleat marine force. Nevertheless, my conduct while stationed in the P.I., for the most part would not have warranted the discharge, but when I punched the Corporal of the gaurd while restricted to barracks could certainly warrant an OTH, especially since I was drunk and drinking in the Barracks, although everybody did, I clearly disobeyed orders. I knew when I applied my conduct supported it, but I was hoping the Review Board would look past that since I had graduated with a B.S. in business administration at Cal Poly, finishing in the top of my class, had a great job and several very credible references. I had also just finished my certification as a Certified Management accountant, whis is tougher than the C.P.A. The board denied my request but congratulated me on my accomplishments. Likewise, testing durty for drugs, which is the most common offense on this website, would cleary support and OTH.

Adios

Adios

I took your advice, and am trying to get my discharge change to a general under honorable circumstances. This site and your responses got me through a very worrisome time.
Thanks.

I'm in the VFW but I have an OTH. I remember when I signed up that I only showed them "Member 1". When I took the oath, I think I rationalized that I *served* honorably evenly though I wasn't *discharged* honorably. Would they kick me out if they found out? The VA knows about the OTH and I still get to use the medical facilities... and i got the VA home loan.

I like being in the VFW, but I feel like a fraud sometimes. I know many of my brothers got caught for worse and didn't get the boot from the military. But times were different in the 80s.

VFdub member on December 4, 2005 9:56 AM

I have served 3 1/2 years of a six year contract in the USAF. My time includes 1 tour in Baghdad, 2 medals, and numerous amounts of awards. I recently was charged with battery (to non-military) and the case is being handled in the civilian courts. I am facing an OTH discharge with full VA benefits. What is the process to turn this discharge into honorable? I heard that I would have to wait 6 months then submit a DD293 but I'm just looking for clarification. I'm not out yet but will be within the next month. Any advice?

Rob, you may have a very good case for an upgrade. If you are not convicted of the battery, and the Air Force does not have any other reasons for booting you out, your conduct would not match the character of the discharge. What is the posture of your criminal case? Are you going to plea to the battery, or take it to trial? Do you have a civilian attorney, and if so what is his estimation for your prospects for an aquital? Do you have a good self defense argument? If you are covicted and get the OTH, I would urge you to hire a civilian attorney to pursue an upgrade. Based upon what you have indicated, it appears your conduct in the military is very good, and would not support a characerization as other than honoralbe, except for the cilivian battery. If you are convicted and you can show mitigating cirumstaces such as self defense or mutual combat, you may be able to convince the admin board for the upgrade. I would make sure that when you apply, you have all your ducks in a row, and if you can get a civilian attorney with former JAG experience it would be even better. I would definitely spend the time and money to do it right the first time.

Hey, VFdub, I like your style. I would not worry about it much though. What the VFdub guys think of you does not really matter. If they do find out about your OTH there probably are some that think you should or will want to boot you out. For many of these people the military was the greatest accomplishment in their lives. Many Marines and AirBorn and commando types, go to war get out and spend the rest of their lives as Postmen, janitors, or handymen. There is nothing wrong with these carreers, but their military experience is often their biggest accomplishment. On the other hand, if the boys like you they may not care, as most who have been in the military have experienced some type of injustice, weather practiced on them or, or somebody else. About ten years ago, there was big story about a local Marine who deserted during the Vietnam War. He had volunteerd and served three tours in Vietnam received at least one silver star, and numerous other decorations for bravery, and then with three weeks, or three months left on his contract, went to the Phillipines for R&R and never went back. The Marines gave him a Bad Conduct discharge. That Marine did far more than most who have served in the military, and during war time even, and thats the thanks he got. He should have went back, but he volutneerd three tours in Vietnam, there was basicaly nothing left on his contract to do, but sit around while the Marines processed his paperwork. When I was at infantry training school, I was assinged to gaurd deserters. I would have felt totally unworthy, and emberaced to gaurd that guy. Obviously, if you got all your V.A. benefits, the V.A. does not consider your contributions without worth. In the end, what the VFdub guys think does not matter. I can assure you that there are many who are in the VFdub, who would not want the Jarhead who served three tours in Vietnam, and was highly decorated for bravery in their midst. I would buy that guy dinner and shake his hand any time. So what if he got disgusted with the way Congress decided to chuck the war, and left three weeks or three months early. That man may have warranted a court martial for deserting, but based on his conduct, I just do not see how anybody in good faith could think he deserved a bad conduct discharge.

VFdub, I think Eric hit the nail on the head with his post to you. I think Eric has some very good advice but I wanted to add something to what he wrote. I also have an OTH and belong to AMVETS. I have a friend who knew I wanted to become a member and because the post he belonged to is small and just begining they were hungry for new members and decided to let me join their post. Basically they told me don't ask don't tell. So I paid my membership dues and I was in. I then decided to join a larger post that was more active. I was afraid to approach them because they were more follow the rules type and I knew they would want to see my DD 214. They looked at my ID card from the other post and accepted it. After being in the post for a couple months the time came to elect new post officers. I was nominated for the office of ADJUTANT and was voted in. I felt hesitant to be apart of such a large and important post with an important position so I went to one of the members and revealed my secret to him. He also was ex-Navy and listened as I told him with tears running down my face that I was not eligible to be a member let alone be an officer in the post. He told me to dry my tears and never mention to anyone else the nature of my discharge. He told me as far as he was concerned I did not receive a bad conduct or dishonorable so my service until I was discharged had to be honorable or I would not have been in the Navy as long as I was. VFdub, if they don't scream don't you holler. Keep your mouth shut and enjoy the fellowship the organization provides you. You are a veteran and you deserve to be around other vets as do I. Most of the guys on this site are letting a piece of paper take away what they did. Nothing and no one can take away the fact you served honorably your entire time in uniform with the exception of one day. Don't let them steal your rightful place and don't you give it away! Bravo Zulu to you and all the guys who have OTH's and not let it affect their desire to be more than that piece of paper says they are. Stand down from that type of thinking and help your VFW post as much as you can. Be a good member like you were while you were in uniform and you will be ok.

I was wondering will the navy pay for my move to my home of record when being invol. seperation but recieved a general discharge. I have family to move way on the other side of the united states. Pay for me to drive and get my household goods sent there too? Any help.....

C. Jackson, your advice and experience for VFdub, is right on. I think also, that most of us served in a period of relative calm. Nothing, like WWI,WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. I do not want to take anything from Gulf War Vets, currently we are up to a around 2,200 deaths in Iraq. We lost 5,000 some troops on the first day of D-day, about 1,500 Marines on Tarawa the first day, Tarawa is also the name of my Cat, and at Okinawa we suffered a little over 70,000 causalties in three weeks, including 38 warships sunk, and 368 damaged.I remember one Marine I have interviewed told me he went a shore on the third day, and stated: "I remember vividly marching to the front. As we marched inland, I could see Bull-dozers digging graves as far as my eyes could see. I saw trucks coming back from the front piled with dead Marines, and I saw Japaneze Kamikazee planes flying out to attack the fleet"
In Vietnam we lost about 58,000 dead in ten years, or about 5,000 a year, nearly six times the causualties in Iraq so far. We are roughly at 2,200 dead over three years. The point, even if we were suffering Vietam casualties, which were much, much, lower than WWI, and WWII, most of the OTH's that have been awarded since the end of the Vietnam era would not have been awarded in the first place. At least for myself, had I served during Vietnam, I think my command would have made sure that I got extended duty in the bush, and that Navy and Airforce, and Army would also have been awarded duty in a more hostile environment, but sure as hell would not have discharged most of us. Getting discharged with those kind of casualties is not that easy. If they kicked out everybody who smoked grass in the Nam, that probably would have cut our combat forces in half. Although I personaly did not get popped for drugs. As I have said before, our military is way understrength. We are going to have to start drafting soon. As worse disasters befall our country, we will need more bodies. The higher casualties, the wounded and the dead, the military will treat smoking marijuana differently, out of manpower concerns. I beleive that most people on this web-site, had the served in Vietnam, relatively light casualties for the U.S., none would have been dicharged, but most likely found themselves in a more dangerous assingment. We as a country have been very, very fortunate. In WWII the Russians who faced 90% if the German elite divisions, Wafen SS, ect. suffered over 20 to 30 million combat deaths. I can gaurantee you nobody in that army got kicked out for weed. They did not not get kicked out for alcohol either, that is probably the only way most of them were able to get out of their trench to face certain death. The point of another of my long winded ramblings, if we ever face even Vietnam casualties, which I am sure is soon to come if not more, many people will find that smoking Marijauna, drinking in the barracks, and other minor disciplinary infractions will not get you booted out, but may get you thrown in the brig. Also, the military in peace time, which many of us served is much stricter than in war. In war the military wants you to fight. Any military personel put in a leadership role in war, would be well advised to treat those under his command with respect, something that often does not happen in peace time. When a captain leads his company into a firefight, he has to rely on his men. Personaly, if I was the captain, I would take good care to make sure that the P.F.C. is going to cover my ass. I think many of us on this website, had one or two officers or senior enlisted that they may have felt less enthusiastic about getting their ass shot off for than others. The final point, characterization of discharges, after the Vietnam War, until today, cannot be readily compared. Aside from the arbitrary and unfair treatement that is part of military culture, i.e. John Carey, George Bush, comparing disharges during peace time, to those during wartime, are arbitrary, and like comparing apples and orranges. Often, the most decorated are those who under our current system, would have been discharged for minor disciplianry infractions had they served in peace time. I believe we as a nation are going to have to sustain much higher casualtly levels to win the war on terror if it can ever be won. We may find ourselves in a state of constant warfare, the goal to limit attacks as much as possible, but we may not be able to limit them entirely. If we continue our lackluster approach to this war, we are going to gaurantee ourselves casualties in the 100,000 of thousands.

Hey Eric, I would like to share something with you but, I don't want the world to know what it is. Hit me up at ptyofcr2@aol.com.

Hey every one. I work for the transportation industry and joined the army while I was employed. My dad works there with me and went crazy and it caused a lot of heart ache. The company gave me a leave of absence. While at basic...my dad was going to commit suicide and I heard all kinds of garbage from home, through letters. It got me down and I kept injuring myself. I had a poor pity me party and realized I didn't want to be in. The military isn't for every one. I was given a Chapter 11....failure to adapt. And I was allowed back to my job. I started taking college classes and am deciding whether to persue a teaching degree. Any one that got a chapter 11 or any type of messed up discharge can email me at jgunt78@yahoo.com Since I went back to my job...and my military time was during my employment..maawoohahahahaaaa....I wonder if I should even bother putting it on a job app. But...I don't know how things work, with doing background checks and being a teacher. Any oen with info can email me. thanks

My husband was discharged other than honorable-misconduct drug abuse USMC. He went before the Administrative Board. Where are those records kept? They are not in his military records because we have those. Help if you can?

Hey F.Bostick when your husband was discharged how long did your process take until youwas completely out and did they pay for you to move to your home of record? I'm sorry I can't help you on your question due to the fact Im in process of getting out and needed to know how long it takes. I had my admin board and recieved a general that took place almost a month ago. What and how long is teh process from then on? Do you know or anyone at that?

RCF, long on to the vetrans administration web site. This should address that issue. I looked at a table about a week ago that listed eligibility requirements. I may be mistakn. Most of the benefits honorable dischages receive are also available to Genral discharges. I have been lokking for the table buy have not found it again yet, and I do not recall if that was on the V.A. website. Although the V.A. website will give you several numbers to call, that should answer your question for sure.

I almost always end up on this page whenever I start thinking about my service in the Navy and just wanted to say hi as well as share my humble perspective. When I received my OTH I was a jackass pothead in desperate need of some maturity as well as an ass-kicking or two. Fast-forward 10 years and I'm a software engineer, a husband and a father. I live in the Washington, D.C. area and not a day goes by where I don't regret my discharge. Sure I make good money and live an honorable life, but so many doors are permanently closed to me. I carry a shame that will never be lifted or forgotten. While I agree that an OTH discharge may not be the worst thing that can happen to someone, you never know where life will take you.

Dave, I appreciate what you said, there is not a day that goes by that I do not regret my OTH from the Marines. If I could do it all over, I would. On the other hand I think you are carrying a burden that is unneccessary. As I have mentioned in other e-mails an OTH for minor disciplinary infractions, is just what it says. I believe an OTH is a misnomer in that most people do not know what it is and think it is a Dishonorable, or bad conduct. The label does a big diservice to vetrans. I think that the proper label would be General discharge, and without the honorable condtion. That would seem the most logical approach and the discharge would not be confused, with dishonorable or bad conduct. I am not sure what jobs you feel have been closed to you, but I can say this, if you are persistent and keep trying I think you could do anything you want within reason. You can get a waiver with an OTH, with reenlistment code of R-4. It sounds like you are doing very well, and you are the type of person that could get a waiver. At the moment drugs may make you ineligible, but the military is lowering their standards to adrress enlistment short falls. You may be able to get into the reserve, even now. If one recruiter does not want to help you, then I would go to another. Or write letters to the Navey going up in the chain of command, and or write your congressmen.

If there is a will there is away

Dave, I can directly relate to what you wrote. I think about my discharge everyday also. The simple fact we got an OTH lets others who see our discharge know we were doing something other than what is allowed in the military. I believe I deserved some sort of acknowledgement my behavior was not up to standards. While I agree with Eric that there is some ambiguity associated with an OTH; it does rightly represent a lack of good judgement in some way. I wish too that someone would have kicked me in the seat of my pants rather than permenately labelled me with an Other Than Honorable. I am happy for you though, not letting your discharge define you speaks volumes for your character. You have taken that same drive and perserverance you had in uniform and made it work for you as a civilian. Bravo Zulu to you and remember, you are not alone in your feelings. There are many who don't know this site exist or they too would be saying something very similar if given the chance. I, like you, have many regrets when it comes to my military service. The primary reason for those feelings is the fact I am the cause of the majority of my woes. So hang in there shipmate. At least you can rest assured there are a hand full who knows your entire time in uniform is not reflected in the characterazation of your discharge. Keep your head up and know you belong to a very selective fraternity of men who have worn that uniform and helped project peace and power to the rest of the world. No one can ever take what you did and who you did it with away from you. You have many more honorable days than anything else. Fair winds and continued success.

I would like to make an additional comment on the OTH. I am not sure if anybody has tried this or not, but the OTH label may be unconstitutional given the fact that it is confused for Dishonerable, or bad conduct. This could be chalenged on the basis that it is cruel and unusual punishment since the label is stigmizing beyond the conduct that is the basis of the discharge. There also may be an equal protction argument in that a selective group, vetrans, are being singled our for more severe punishement than would be given to a civilian for the same conduct, i.e. the stigma, which causes difficulty in finding wourk as many offenses would not be crimes in the civilian world. Another possibility would be due process in that vetrans are being dealt with unfairly because they are not, in many cases, receiving full constitutional protecions.

I would like to illicit a response, keeping in mind what Dave and Jackson said, fully taking responsibility for their actions, the following moral questions: Many on this website were busted for a dirty drug test, and for many their first and only dirty test, yet in professional sports athletes often test dirty several times before being banned, and politicians, like Marion Berry, are caught using drugs, and illiciting sex from prostitutes, clearly illegal, and instead of being banned from office are re-elected. Should military personell be treated more harshly than athletes, and politicians, politicians who obviously should be held to a higher standard as holding positions of public trust? Should vetrans, who were discharged in disgrace for one dirty test, hang their heads in shame for the rest of their lives, when politicians and athletes are given several chances and forgiven?

Unfortunately I think it is simply a question of money. Here in Florida a teacher ran over 4 children killing two of them and her parents helped hide and destroy evidence. That family had the resources to hire a very good lawyer and none of them spent a day in jail. Also, here in Fla. a teacher had sex with a 14 year old boy and her lawyer said she was too pretty to go to prison. She isn't going to prison for the crimes she was tried for in her first trial. Again, resources available for the best defense possible. OJ, guilty as sin. Not in prison because he had great lawyers bought and paid for. If the average soldier, sailor or airman had the money to take the military to trial it would cause grid lock in the JAG and other judicial branches of the service. You would have plea agreements just like the civilian population. The fact Joe sailor has only some very jr. officer giving him advice and counsel leads to many accepting the OTH's the military is handing out like tic tacs. The average E-1,2,3 or 4 does not have the money to seek legal guidance when his future is on the line. The officers appointed to guide them thru this process 99% of the time lead them, as they did me, to choose an OTH because to fight it would mean worse consiquences for the accused. Just try to imagine a military full of pending cases because of back logging. What would the military do if 15 to 20 percent of the enlisted personel were waiting for court dates? It is not a fair system and it is designed that way to clear and keep clear the court rooms the military has. That private who took pictures of the detainies would still be waiting to go to trial if all the wizz quizes went to trial. If every trial had to prove custody chains of evidence for each specimen taken from every ship and unit all over the world. There is no justice system now available which could handle that. I think the military should suspend those found guilty of failing drug test. I think they should not allow a person to return to his or her unit until they pass. The method of punishment now in place is robbing the military of some very capable people. Because at a time when most people in this country try drugs and alcohol for the first time they are not usually punished for the rest of their lives if they are caught. The military is in my opinion BASSACKWARDS in their methodology. You don't kick a person out after spending some times millions to train them. That's not cost effective. I think suspension and forfiture of all pay until you are able to pass a wizz quiz is more agreeable and makes more sense. I know I went a bit off course with this Eric but, this is what I think about the question you asked.

Jackson, I agree with you on the fact that there needs to be an expeditous way to dispose of minor offenses, or else this would create a backlog that would a seriously effect combat readiness, and slow the judicial process to a snails pace. That is why summary court martials and article 15 hearings cannot of themselves be criminal convictions because of the expeditious process for these hearings you are not going to get the full constitutional protections of a bench or jury trial. However, you can get kicked out with a summary court martial or article 15 hearing based upon convictions in the civilian court. I had a case this week in which I defended an Air Force guy for drunk driving. We had a good chance at beating the charge, but we would have had to go to trial, and if we lost he would have gotten jail time and would have been kicked out. He did not want to gamble so he plead to the DUI, in order to make sure he would have to go to jail even though we had a strong case. Since he did not have any jail time he got an article 15, but does not have to worry about getting busted out, although he cannot afford another. In this case the guy got a DUI conviction, but the article 15 is not a conviction of any kind. I agree the military should make more of an effort to rehabilitate military personell because of the great expense in investing and training these guys. I believe the military should make more of an effort in rehabilitation in order to protect their investment. In addition, because of the great cost of training military personnel, I believe the military should make it much more difficult to get out for minor disciplinary infractions, by making a better effort at rehabilitation, and also make it clear that they must finish their enlistments either in the military or Leavenworth. I think the number of OTH's would plumet, we would have a much better retention ratio, and most guys faced with Leavenworth, or finishing their enlistment, would definitely finish their enlistment.

I agree with you Eric. Faced with jail time or finishing your contract would change many minds. Nothing is worth your freedom, I know. Had that been an option I would be a Master Chief now. But, no one really informed me what lay ahead of me at the time of my discharge. The Lt. who was handling my paper work told me not to worry about an OTH, that it would automatically upgrade after six months. Had I known then what I have subsequently learned from going through the process I would have made much better decisions. They made it seem like it was no big deal and I would be able to work within the system once I was discharged. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Navy spent big bucks turning me into an Operstions Specialist. I think they lost out more than I did in the end because they didn't get the full return on their investment. But you are correct when you say the present system needs to be revised. There must be a better way of rehabilitating all these sailors and airmen, sildiers and Marines who have so much potential but are too young and ignorant to fully comprehend their status as American Military personel. If I had another shot I would definately be more responsible and have more of a Espirit de corps attitude. I don't think I would be gung ho but definately more in line with the program. You should've been in congress Eric to introduce a bill which would beef up the numbers the military is trying to with unpaid bonuses and SRB's. There are many who would gladly put the uniform on again if given the opportunity. And chances are the military would have a group free from article 15's and Captains mast's. They would appreciate being given another chance and would jump at the opportunity to redeem themselves.
On a side note, I wonder why the number of posts are dwindling on this site. It seems you and I are communicating with ourselves and no one else is contributing. Odd.
Anyway, Merry Christmas to all my shipmates and brothers and sisters in arms. Happy Holiday and Good luck in the coming new year. C. Jackson

Merry Christmas Aaron and thanks for this site. You have helped more people than you know and I for one am grateful for your input and for allowing me a place to find assistance and fellowship. I wish I could show my gratitude by more than simply saying thank you Aaron. Bravo Zulu to you and continued success.

My boyfriend has been a Marine for less than a year. He just popped for coke. He was dropped from his company, 1/2 pay, and might not get christmas leave anymore. They gave him a choice: other than honorable discharge, or fight it in military court. His family has a long history of marines but he doesn't want to do it anymore. After reading some posts it sounds like OTH discharge is not that bad - i will tell him all i've learned. It is totally up to him right now, he has to make a life decision. He is in infantry so it's fight on the front lines in iraq after he gets everything sorted out and back in a company, or come home and go to college and live with an OTH. I have no questions really, just wanted to add my situation.

Kristie, Your comment; "it seems an OTH isn't that bad". Of all the things I have had to confront in my life, my OTH is perhaps the biggest and most difficult hurddle for me to contend with. I cannot say what would be best for your old man as I do not know him or his desire to stay in. But one thing I do know is at some point, somewhere down the line he will regret receiving an OTH. It's the stigma which goes along with that type discharge one can never shake. I know no one wants to go to Iraq, that maybe the most unpopular duty station since Vietnam. Not wanting to subject himself to what's going on over there is understandable. But, if he has a say in the matter and he can somehow salvage his enlistment from being characterized as OTH then I would if I were in that situation. But, to each his own. Good luck to you both and Merry Christmas.

Kristie, if your man did not want to go to Iraq, then why on earth did he join the Marines to become a rifleman? The Marines are leading most of the heavy combat operations, and have been for the last two years. I would strongly discourage anybody from joining any branch of the service if they are not willing to go to Iraq, and that if they think they are willing, to take a look at the photos of casualties coming back. If they still are willing to step up, as men have in every war, then my hat is off to them, as well as my thanks. Your man could get a bad conduct dishcarge from the court martial. I would ask him to see if there is anyway his command would back him in an article 15 hearing or Summary court martial and still stay in. If he could work out a deal with some brig time, and regular testing, I think it would be worth it to him in the long run, if his military attorney could work the deal.
Good luck.

Jackson,

I think I should cool it on the posts, as I must be scarying people away. My intent was to illicit more responses and discussion. Anyway, I hope the posts pick up.

Semper Fi

Hi. I am stationed in Habbaniyah, Iraq, outside of Ramadi. I am in the national guard for about 1 more month, then my OTH will be complete. During training at Camp Shelby, MS, one of my SGT's was argueing with a black about poverty and all that shit. Then the SGT. went outside and said, "That kid's a nigger. There are black people and there are niggers, and that kid's a nigger." I don't disagree with him. That kid very well could be the prize turd on the shitheap. But anyway, about a month later, I was at the NCO club with 2 Specialists. One of them leaned on the Platoon Sargents chair. The evening was over. We were escourted back to the barracks, where my squad leader, (the E-6), came in the barracks and got in my face. He said, "Get in your bunk!", and was super pissed! I said, "What do you want me to do, hit you, Sargent?" This guy was super pissed and I had no idea why. 6 months later, I find out from my Trail Defense, my squad leader was at the bar, and ordered to come back to the barracks by the Platoon Sargent. Whatever. Anyway, the E-5 in the whole situation walks between me and the E-6 and says, "Smith, your drunk! Get in your fucking bunk!" Oh, yeah... "..what about when you called Walker a nigger?", came out of my mouth. :D The shit was on. "I didn't say that!", he said. What a load of shit. "He said it, Sargent.", I said to my squad leader, expecting him to have some kind of concern. "At ease!", he said to me. What the fuck ever. Someone went and got the Platoon Sargent, who had come back from the NCO club. He came in the barracks and said, "Smith! Get outside!" O.K., I figure an end to the situation. Then, as I am outside standing at parade rest, I realize this guy is going to try to fuck me. He came and stood in front of me, and smirked. I said, "What are you going to take?", gesturing to my collar. I was a 4 year e-4 just demoted to PFC for calling another e-4 a motherfucker. Oh well, he was. Anyway, him and I have some words and he says, "That's it! Disrespect to an NCO. Detain him!" Next thing I know, the E-6 and the E-5 have my arms up behind my back, one each, holding me. The platoon sargent goes and asks the negro if the sargent-in-question called him a nigger. "No, sar't.", he says. Bright answer, dimbulb. The NCO said it to me where no one else could hear him. How many guys just say, "Hey, your a nigger." to a black guy without that guy going gorilla? Not to many that I know of. Anyway, the Platoon Sargent comes back over, and just says, "Take him down!" BOOM! They kick my knees in, and put me in the gravel face first. He comes around, puts his knee in the back of my neck, and says, "You saw him swing, right?", to the E-6, who says, "Roger, Sargent!". Then, he says, "YOU saw him swing, RIGHT?" to the E-5, and he says, "Roger, sargent!" "O.K.", he says. "YOU MOTHERFUCKERS!", I said. I let them take me down, and didn't argue or disobey. MOTHERFUCKERS! I'll say it again. YOU PIECES OF SHIT! Now, 8 months later, this is still going on, I have been removed from the company, and have had all of my military gear taken from me 6 months ago;rucksack, sleeping bag, wet/cold weather gear. (fuckers even took my boots). Now, I signed an "in leiu of court-martial" thing, and am being sent home. I'm sorry this is so long, just I have alot to write. IM SO PISSED I COULD CHOKE A MOTHERFUCKER! Anyway, back to being layed back.. I'll be back at Camp Shelby, MS, in 2 weeks or so, then back to Michigan to try to make it on what's left of my savings and my OTH. Oh yeah, about 3 months ago, my wife cleared out my bank account of over $10,000, and spent $1000 of that on a divorce attorney. ALSO, check www.cami.org. Some people really get the bad end of the military. One guy got life in prison. READ UP! TTY soon.

SPC. Tim Brown, PFC. John Dearing, SGT. Spencer Akers, are still with me.

Gary C. Smith on December 18, 2005 6:47 AM

I'm glad i found this site:; I was in the army for 2 years and pissed hot for maryjane in 2001. The unit i was in was the worst I've ever experienced even though i had just served a year in Korea my unit at Ft. Sill was horrible!! Roches in the barracks,community showers and leadership that makes me laugh when i look back at it. After pissing hot the Battalion commander gave me the choice of getting chaptered out with OTH but I knew that would take forever so I just went AWOL. I knew how to do it because I was in charge of a detail at the NCO club and they would send soldiers that were being chaptered out for awol to clean. I was Chaptered out with OTH but to this day it has only prevented me from getting one job and that was US postal ( i didnt shed any tears) But one thing i did come to know was that when you tell anyone what your discharge is they judge you right away even though they arent prior service and have no idea what the military is. So I dont tell to many people for some reason they lose it when you do even though its an OTH and not a dishonorable. If anyone cant find a job because of it go to your unemployment office and talk to your veteran rep they have to help you and do help you because they dont have anything else to do(sound familiar). All of your stories sound so familiar to mine i cant believe it!!! The army abused me in so many ways i cant even remember most of them. When all is said and done i met alot of good people there(alot of bad too!!). Does anyone have any links to 1-upgrading 2-AWOL. I am currently applying for LAPD; they would be crazy not to take me but they wont like my discharge but dont be detered by life after OTH we are just more independently minded people and the military doesnt care about you, we were just numbers to them and thats all. 50% of the people i knew in the army hated it and the other 50 never had a life anyway. Never be detered- Jason

Still awaiting been about 6 months since I knew I failed a piss test. My command is driving me insane just losing paperwork and just putting me on the back burner like it doesn't seem to faze them that I want to start my life over as soon as possible but they are carrying this out as long as they can to drive me crazy sticking me with horrible jobs. When I found out I failed they told me 2 weeks I would be out well I oupted for admin board and reieved a general then was told the most 30 days well it has been longer than that what is going on???

I'm now facing an OTH discharge. I knew it was coming well before the command gave me the word, so being in the rate that I am, I got an opportunity to create a DD 214 with it being Honorable. How far do anyone think I can get on it?

My Army son has just requested a Chapter 10 OTH discharge from the Army rather than face a special court-martial for speeding on Ft. Gordon (at midnight out on Range Road), not stopping when the MP's told him to, fleeing apprehension, and then missing formation the next day. Since my husband and I are both retired military, and know he served honorably for one year in Iraq, this OTH really bugs us. He was given an honorable discharge in Feb 05 in order to reenlist, and now 10 months later will be receiving an OTH. Is it in his best interests to just use his honorable discharge from Feb 05 on job applications and not mention the OTH? He already has a job lined up when he gets out (he's a mechanic).

My wife is a marine and is pregnant. She wants to get out of the Marines. She does not feel that she could handle being deployed and having a baby back home. Some of our friends in other branches of service said that she can get out if she claims hardship. When she brings it up to anyone in her unit they said it doesn't work like that. Is there anyone that can help with some direction on what to do if we can do anything at all. Please help my wife she is driving me crazy.

Hey i just wanted to say that this site is pretty cool.I also have been thinking about my oth since i got out in 2000. Currently i am getting ready to attend school to recieve my EMT and will soon apply for a position as a Calif Dep. Forestry Firefighter. I hope that the stupid decision that i made 5 years ago doesnt effect my chances. Since getting out of the USMC 5 years ago i havent had even so much as a speeding ticket, I never been arrested , nothing.what do you think my chances are? I think that it is great to talk to others that live with the same burden. let me know what you think. thank you

I got an OTH and I'm not proud of it. It hurts every day that I'm not in the Navy. If there was a chance for me to get in the military again I would take that chance. I'm mature now and I know what I want out of life. So yeah I know I messed up but everyone deserves a second chance.

Tally McCloud on December 21, 2005 3:32 PM

Does anyone have any links to long term effects of the "anthrax vaccination"? Please send them to me or post!!

DO NOT DESPAIR YOUNG PEOPLE!!!!!!! Ran across this blog while searching for disqualifications for a CCW permit. Go figure. Anyway I spent 3 years in the US Army overseas, "Rangers lead the Way".loved it/hated it. Got out for a year, re-enlisted in the Navy. Pussied out/washed out of buds, got sent to a aviation squadron. Hated it, no offense to pilots or former naval aviation types, but the pilots especially came off like hardasses. They were punks, and I never missed an opportunity to tell them so to their face. Needless to say I was Ar-15'ed Captains Mast about 10 times and spent about 30 days in the brig on more than a few occasions before being discharged OTH. I had an attitude, still do. But I've found it true in civilian life after the military, if you're really, really good at what you do, people cut you all kinds of slack. The Army did, the Navy did not (didn't help I called my CO a pussy at my last Capt. Mast)....but oh well, live and learn. As a forty-five year old now, I spent years working all sorts of night jobs, construction jobs, and generally crappy dead end jobs to put myself through college. I've got a good job, a family, and a degree and my future is as bright as I make it. I mention my service on job apps if it simply asks about military service, if it asks about type of discharge, I don't mention it. And BTW, my little brother that dropped out of highschool got a job as an apprentice AC tech years ago and today makes more than I do....in the 60's......so relax...It's only as bad as you make it, yeah you aren't likely to get a clearance for a nuclear weapons lab, but so what? The civilian sector for the most part has a real disdain for the military anyway. Just my opinion.

To All Navy Vets, Honorables to BCDs,

I got some stuff that only the government should have. Wanna get a new orginal DD214? Wanna get a new eval? Wanna get a new Page 5? You can make it yourself and add whatever you wish! Add a DD215 to include more info, I don't care! Show these to employers and they can't turn you away! Since I'm in the same boat with an OTH (Ha-Ha!) I'm passing along to others. I got the stuff by doing what I did when I was in the navy. I knew it was coming, so I got the stuff and left!

downwiththesystem on December 23, 2005 6:54 AM

Hey downwiththesystem, you could make a bundle on E-Bay with the right software. There are thousands who would like a DD-214 which said honorable. I doubt if many on this site would take advantage but, there must be those out there who would slip you a few bucks to get some fake papers. You never know. But, one thing is for sure; you'll difinately end up back in trouble if it is traced back to you. Be careful dude.

I was in the navy during desert storm. I wanted out and told them I was gay. It took about 4 weeks to separate and I received an re-4 discharge. I was a corpsman in the navy and once I got out -- I found out that working as a civilian in the medical field is even worse than the working in the military. The training was exceptional in the military.

If you want out, stating that you are gay (male or female) is THE fastest and easiest way. When you tell them you are gay, they'll ask if you want out of the military. Just say no and do the paperwork. It's not immediate, but fairly painless. Just consider your options... you might be miserable, but trust me, civilians are worse to work with in most fields. Civilians have little work ethic, zero discipline and absolutely no camaraderie that you find in the military.

If I had stayed in the military, I'd be retiring in 3 years as an md. If I had stayed in the military, I would have never ventured out to start my own business and enjoyed making music and all the other activities I could not do in the military. I might also be maimed or even worse, dead from being sent to Iraq.

Lots of "ifs" to consider. If your life is on the line and you want freedom, those "ifs" are hard to ignore.

For all who are in the military that are in Iraq and have to deal with the every day dangers, I respect your commitment. Stay safe and I hope you can return safely to your family and friends.

Hello,
I have a situation and I would really appriciate if you could write me back asap. I would like to know the consequences of going AWOL. My fiancee is thinking about doing it and I do not want this to happen at all. He's leaving for his duty station in 2 hours and he is flat out refusing. I have no idea what to do or how to handle this. I already told him to just tell them he's gay but he doesn't even wanna leave. I would just appriciate if someone gave me the truth about whats going to happen if I cna't get him on this plan..I've heard jail time is this true? Please help...thank you

Hello,
I have a situation and I would really appriciate if you could write me back asap. I would like to know the consequences of going AWOL. My fiancee is thinking about doing it and I do not want this to happen at all. He's leaving for his duty station in 2 hours and he is flat out refusing. I have no idea what to do or how to handle this. I already told him to just tell them he's gay but he doesn't even wanna leave. I would just appriciate if someone gave me the truth about whats going to happen if I cna't get him on this plan..I've heard jail time is this true? Please help...thank you

To Renee:
Yeah it could happen. He could go to the brig for 90 days or so, but it depends on his command. A guy in my command just got processed out with a general (Under Honorable Conditions) Discharge with reduction in rank and restriction. His command can tell where it can go.

downwiththesystem on December 28, 2005 12:03 PM

I just recently joined the army, i have not had a good experience at all and it wasnt the right thing for me in my opinion... i dont wanna go back at all, im on exodus right now and dont know what to do. i called the gi rights hotline or w/e and a lady told me some of my options and i was told after about 30 days of being AWOL i get dropped from something or other and i need to go to like FT Sill to get an OTH.i was wondering how does this work (is it a good route considering my options of going back and having to deal with my CO's and NCO's thats the last thing i want to do)? i just need some help im not doing well at all, ive been having horrible dreams to lately and i dont understand it at all... thank you.

no flames plz no need..just any help and info

Well Sevyth, you'll be dropped from the rolls and you'll be classed as a deserter. After that, all benefits and pay stops. If you been in longer that 180 days, well.....different channel for that. If not you can get a Entry level Separation, which doesn't hurt you.

downwiththesystem on December 28, 2005 12:37 PM

Hey, My situation is exactly that of Sevyth. I was told that going AWOL for 30 days and then turning yourself in is the easiest way. They also said you would be given an OTH. I emailed my senator today but other than that I have no idea where to start. Does anyone know if the felony warrant after 30 days stays on you record, or does the OTH take place of that?

sorry, the post after mine helped alot but i wanted to know since i have all my gear and what not at my barracks in missouri do i have to go back or can they just break in and take it and just let me go on my way without me there? nothing there is important to me anymore.. i just wanna go. any imformation about it is helpful anything at all that would help. thank you for the help...

Sevyth, here's all that I know:

You have to go back to Missouri and get your stuff...and to get your DD 214 of course! Breaking in and taking your stuff ain't gonna cut it.

AaronH:
Going AWOL for 30 days will class you as a deserter, but you'll be far from safe. I recommend that you come in on the 29th day and just tell your CO that you want out. Yeah, you'll go through NJP and all that, but at least you won't have to worry about getting locked up.

downwiththesystem on December 29, 2005 3:23 PM

oh yeah AaronH.....the warrant you got won't go away. in fact, it will stay with you until you turn yourself in to civilian authorities. An OTH given to you in the command is a military administration thing so is not a conviction or anything, so that won't take place of yor current warrant. a civilian warrant is a civilian warrant, but if you go on the deserter status, you'll have 2 warrants, technically.

downwiththesystem on December 29, 2005 3:29 PM

The GIrights hotline told me that I would be issued a misdemeanor warrant as soon as I didn't return, and then 30 days later it would turn to a felony warrant. At which time I would turn myself into Ft. Sill, was my understanding. They said that if you didn't wait until it was a felony there is still a good chance they will just keep you in for the remainder of your term. What I was asking is after you turn yourself in, and get the OTH discharge, is there still a felony on your record- or does it go away once you turn yourself in?

An OTH is not a criminal conviction. An OTH wont be shown in criminal background checks.

downwiththesystem on December 30, 2005 6:49 AM

Awesome. Does anyone know how you go about turning yourself in? Do you have to do it to local civilian authorities or would it be more beneficial to drive to OK and turn yourself into Ft. Sill?

Turn yourself in at Ft. Sill before the 30th day of your AWOL. It will look so better on you than going to the police. If you go to the police, they do have the authority to lock you up and wait until your command representaive come and get you out which could take hours or days.

downwiththesystem on December 30, 2005 4:05 PM

Turn yourself in at Ft. Sill before the 30th day of your AWOL. It will look so better on you than going to the police. If you go to the police, they do have the authority to lock you up and wait until your command representaive come and get you out which could take hours or days.

downwiththesystem on December 30, 2005 4:05 PM

*representative

....sorry for the mispelling.

downwiththesystem on December 30, 2005 4:25 PM

So what's the deal with the GI Bill and an OTH discharge in a 2nd term of enlistment? I never seen any replies to that question on the page. Just curious... :-D

Another thing...have anybody walked into VA with an OTH for benefits? What kind and where can it be found? Have anybody who recently got separated from the Navy went through the Transition Assistance Program and heard what kind of benefits one can get with an OTH?

downwiththesystem on December 30, 2005 4:31 PM

I've been reading comments about OTH discharge, and basically they all revolve around the same thing. Alcohol or drugs. I too received an OTH from the Marine Corps (K-Bay)for cocaine and failing alcohol rehab at Pearl Harbor. I will take credit for screwing up and I have regretted the young decisions I made then.
It is not the end of the world. Over the last eighteen years, I have been employed with the Postal Service as a letter carrier. My DD-214 even has failure to complete alcohol rehab printed on the long form. I have even used my VA eligibility to purchase a home.
I have reformed and focused my life around positive things. There is just one track left for me. I am going to apply to be buried in a military cementary. Whatever it takes, I will seek an answer for that to happen also. although not one of wanted an OTH, it has happened and it is not the end of the road for any of us. Keep the faith because you all are still my brothers' in arms.

Sevyth!!!!!!!!! PLEASE DO NOT get Dropped From Rolls!!!!!!! If I ever had to beg someone for anything it is that!!! I was Awol from Alpha Co. 1/81 Armor from Ft. Knox for 45 days because of some problems I faced back at home....that was back in 1999 and I wish I could go back. Like the cadence goes "I don't know why I left.....but I know that it was wrong..." I don't car if you term is for 2,3, or 6 years please please please stay in. Please, it is the worst choice you could ever make not finishing your term and getting that Honorable. I know there is life after the OTH, but I can guarantee myself, Eric, C. Jackson and probably 100,000+ people would love to be in your posistion in order to correct it and finish the term. There is nothing as "Secure" in the civilian world job-wise that can be compared to the military, at least not anything you can immediately be hired for off the street. And as far as the UCMJ is concerned AWOL/Deserter status during wartime carries a maximum punsihment of death. Seriously ask your future self if he can live with your past self without feeling shame because of the OTH. I look in the mirror and see this sad person staring back, I often go into a daze thinking about myself standing before me wearing my old BDU's and he always calls me an asshole. Seriously, finishing this term is the best you can do for yourself and your family. My OTH for real added years to my dads age, he's only 58 and looks like should be 70. It breaks my heart to be with him and have one of his friends come up telling him about how their grandson just joined "the service" and how proud they are. In my mind I can always feel his regret, his pain, and it always makes me feel like I let him down. I wish I could go back and make my dad proud, knowing how hard it can be to raise a child I feel I owe it to him. Please don't give up.......keep soldiering...if not for any other reason than doing for your future you. Please, you graduated BCT, did the rights of passage, your a soldier you deserve this, get up, get that ruck on, pick up that weapon and get to steppin Pvt. There is honor in that uniform and please don't lose sight of it.Feel how all us OTH'ers feel when we see it..feel pride, understand what it is you have. All of our freedoms and hopes in the very meaning that uniform represents. Go to Ft. Sill and face it like a fuckin' warrior.

You guys are giving some very good advice on this post. It seems there is no hope and you are in the worse situation you have ever been in and it's simply not true. Pick yourself up and get back in step so you can finish your enlistment. Having an OTH is not the end of the world. You can accomplish some wonderful things inspite of an OTH. But, looking in the mirror everyday and seeing the face of someone who is better than that piece of paper say's you are is heartbreaking and something you should if possible avoid. An OTH is not a death sentence but inwardly you know you are better than some or most of the people you served with. If you can get past this AWOL and go back and accept the consiquences and get back in that uniform that represents the back bone of how this country was formed and survives to this day. You, like us were apart of the best military in the world. You were/are apart of something so special and right now you can't see that because of how a few NCO's and officers are treating you. There are some great NCO's and officers in the military and just because you ran into an asshole who treated you wrongly does not equate to ruining your life. Go back, please, for the sake of your future and those who depend and look up to you, go back and do the right thing. If I was in your shoes I would MAN UP and go back and show those fuckers I was all that inform say's I am. I would wear that uniform with the pride and dicipline it took to get it in the first place. Don't fuck up your self image and the expectations of those who know you are capable of succeeding. God knows if I had the option of going through whatever I had to to get back in that uniform I would do it in a HEARTBEAT. Make this new year a new start for you on the right track Sevyth. Make us all proud of you for not following in our footsteps.

Happy New Year to all my fellow OTH'ers. May this new year bring upgrades and reinstatements to us all!

Yeah....AWOL is bad....for the military. Manning & Personnel has to go to work. But what about the reason why some of these huys went. Some for family, some for selfish reasons, some for love, you name it, I've heard it. Ideally, it all comes down to proper counseling for this to be prevented, some say.....

Yeah right!

Try This:

All active duty who is reading this right now! Walk up to your supervisor that you want to get some time off to relax, take some leave. They'll say "route a request" just so the reast of the chain can knock it down. I don't know what you all been told, but to me, it's about decision. If he wanna get out, through proper and least painful way as possible, get a discharge. If he wanna stay, through proper and least painful way as possible, wear the uniform. I know some cats who's in their 18th and 19th looking for retirement and wondering "What the hell is next"? You got some that's paranoid as hell because after the service, it's nothing there for them. This is why the homeless veterans are more likely honorable discharge through retirement or fleet reserve transfers (This are special, another lesson on that later).

Basically it's like this: Damn itf you do, damn if you don't.

downwiththesystem on January 1, 2006 7:54 PM

I am a e-1 private at Ft. Huachuca, AZ. I desperately need to get out to take a dream job on the outside. What would be the best course of action for me to get a OTH discharge? Alcohol/Drugs/Flagrant Disregard? I am still eligible for a Entry Level Separation and i have been diagnosed by the army with ADHD and a panic disorder. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Post here, or email me at gabemcc@gmail.com . Time is of the essence!

Gabriel:

Drugs is a no-go. I'd try for the Entry Level Separation if I were you. Ok...you do not wanna go with the ADHD and the disorder route. I'd say just say you're gay and move on. Fuck it....

downwiththesystem on January 5, 2006 2:40 AM

Hey, this is in reply to the question from Downwiththesystem about G.I. Bill benefits. Even if you get an OTH discharge in a later enslistment, you still qualify for the G.I. Bill. It was a contractual obligation based on you initial enlistment; as long as the enlistment was served honorably you get it. Having reenlisted and gotten in trouble later is a separate issue. Hope that helps!

Another X GI on January 5, 2006 10:52 AM

Another X GI:
Thanks for the info. I found out that in order to get you GI Bill, you have to serve honorably for more than 36 months into the first enlistement to qualify. And I also found out that a reenlistment qualifies as a honorable discharge. It is the same as a honorable discharge and reentry without the DD214 and the DD Form 4. :-D

downwiththesystem on January 6, 2006 1:34 PM

hey i just popped on a piss test about a month ago, im about to go to the brig for about 30 days, does any body have any advice on what i have to look forward too, or how an oth is going to affect my life,im only 19.

Hey down with system,

Look I found out in August I failed a piss test I opted for an admin board had it in November ruling was a general discharge and seperation. What is the guidelines to it. It has been since August and I just want to move on with my life and start a new chapter. Don't they have a time table where they have to process out? I was told by my jag officer it will be 30 days and you will be out. Well it has been way longer and when I ask my CMC and the pns they say oh we don't know anything about your paperwork we will let you know when we know something. They have TAD me to 2 different jobs since August. They think they are getting the better of me they aren't I go into work with the best looking uniform and still walk in with pride. They aren't bringing me down it is just I have a family I need to tend and get prepartion started for them back where we are from. If you know any info please help me to shed some light on my wife so she can stop stressing about everything.

well...as long as your getting a check, you shouldn't be worried about it. Well...if you don't have a job lined up, I'd suggest you do it now. It could go on for months....just read what some of the others go through. Technically, it's suppost to be thirty days...but shit happens :-(

downwiththesystem on January 7, 2006 12:08 AM

rcf:

If you really wanna know...I'd suggest you read up on it. Look up MILPERSMAN in Google and you'll know the rest. The guidelines are there. That what the Navy is "suppost" to do. Like I said before, shit happens though. Everty command is different. Some do it by the book, others cut corners.

downwiththesystem on January 7, 2006 12:17 AM

Oh and I know what it feels like to be waiting on paperwork. I used to be a PS. :-D

downwiththesystem on January 7, 2006 12:19 AM

ok all, just wanted to contribute my story, hopefully it'll help...I'm ex Army, enlisted in '90 as Field Artillery. Served honorably for multiple enlistments then like an idiot went out and got high one night, and of course popped on a P- test. That was in February of '99. Got a field grade article 15, reduced to e4 from e5. Was offered an OTH, but challenged it. That turned out to be a total farce; the outcome of the board was obviously as scripted as any WWF match. The OTH stuck and I was left to wait for discharge paperwork. That took nearly a year, during which I was treated like the lowest form of life ever to crawl out've the primoridal ooze. I finally got out in Sep. of '99, and discovered that upon receipt of clearing papers I was reduced administratively from my already reduced rank of e4 to e1. That part really peeved me!! I thought it was crap but I referenced it, AR 600-8-19, and there it was: personnel processing out on an OTH will be automatically reduced to e1...ouch!!.. Got a job out west in semiconductor manufacturing (despite background check, so no prob there). After the semiconductor market went tits up during the last recession, I went to the local community college full time (with G.I. Bill benefits, thank God G.I. Bill benefits are contingent upon serving the contract ya sign up for 'em on, not subsequent contracts.) Got a 2 year tech degree, and got hired by the IBEW for electrical work (again, a background check ensued, but the OTH proved to be no prob again.) Later I did apply for a federal job with the department of energy during a recruiting drive they had for Verteran's, and here the OTH did have an effect. I was rejected because they were specifically looking for honorably discharged vets, but told that otherwise I would've qualified, had I applied strictly as a typical applicant without going for the vet's preference. Oh, the electrical work I was doing for the IBEW was at Intel, who does a pretty thorough background check in addition to what the union ran. Again, the oth caused no problem here. I eventually left the IBEW to work for a Bank at their Data/Network operations center. They did a full FBI background check which did cause a minor stir. The issue came up about a month after I started working there. Apparently the results were somewhat vague- they got the info that I was nailed for possession of drugs, and were interpeting it as I had a felony conviction which wasn't true. I simply forwarded to HR the documentation that I had, showing that I simply failed a urinalysis, and no criminal charges were ever filed. I also sent in documentation showing that an article 15 is NOT a criminal conviction, and once reviewed, I had no further trouble, so it was just a minor hiccup-but I was concerned. In the middle of all this- since getting booted out- I have served two separate (and honorable) enlistments with the National Guard. At the time I was hoping it would allow me to re-enter active duty, but that proved impossible. I was even granted a release from the Guard to transfer to the reserves at one point for better MOS selection, all this with full disclosure of my previous active duty discharge. I made most've my rank back, up to e4. I've since gotten out completely. Hope some of this may help any folks in the same boat...this is a helluva good website, my thanks to everyone working on it and contributing..I guess the key is to realize we screwed ourselves, first and foremost...we knew the rules, etc...with that said, if you've got an unprofessional chain of command as I did, you'll get dragged through the mud and treated like a 3rd class citizen by the fokkers...just grit your teeth and get through it, the OTH won't do NEARLy the damage they say it will....take care, all...

ANOTHER X GI on January 7, 2006 5:05 PM

Wow, I read this whole thread. It took a while, but what some crazy stories. I also received an OTH in 2002 from the Navy, smoked a joint at a concert on Friday has a piss test on Monday. Oh well. I was lucky to the fact that I had recently reenlisted only 5 months prior and was getting ready to make a PCS move. That turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. I was scared at first. My CO was really quick about getting me out. I got the results on Friday and was on my way home on Tuesday. I think the only reason that I reenlisted was I was scared about job security, and that is what the Navy does to people, scares you into thinking you are much better off staying in the Navy. BS. It really taught me to be self dependant. It really showed me that I got what I wanted from the Navy, a little world travel and a break from having to drive so I could get my license back after way too many speeding tickets, and now it is time to move along.

As for the OTH, I was a bit worried about what prospective employers would think. But alas, to my surprise, it is ILLEGAL for a prospective employer to even ask about your type of discharge. That is discrimination. I remember when I was a kid all the job apps asked "Did you receive an honorable discharge?" Well they don't anymore, or they shouldn't. Go to your local McDonalds and grab an application and see. They don't ask it anymore. They can't. The Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act covers this type of discrimination.

see www.osc.gov/userra.htm

As far as background check finding that out, I don't think so. In my latest job (which I quit another good paying job for), I was hired by an ex-marine (who still has a Marine flat top hair style), and went through an extensive background check. I remember signing a form that authorized it when I applied, and they called every single number that I had on my resume and application. They actually called the job I was currently working at when I applied, and my old boss let me fill out the feedback form. I then carefully read the disclosure form I signed when it was faxed over and realized I had the right to request a copy of the background check for myself. I was already secure in employment and looking to get a better paying job so this was perfect for me. I called them to request it and they were happy I called. They wanted a contact number for the Navy. This was 2 years after I got out, so like any one at my old command would still be there who knew me, or knew me well enough. I explained this and said I could fax them my DD214. So I faxed them my deleted copy, along with all of my evals (which were all good). Well, I got the job, and I got the background report. It said that they requested my record from the Navy and were waiting on it (and this was 3 months after they started). Well after a little research I've come to the conclusion that it isn't so easy to get that. They need a SF-180 signed by me to get the undeleted DD214. That is the one with the type of discharge on it. That is private information.

If your employer is following the law, they won't ask you about your type of discharge. Just like they won't ask your religion. It has little to do with how you will do your new job. It is an old job. One you hopefully gained experience and maybe some useful training, but once you are out, you are free to do whatever you want. Never let their lies that you'll never work at McDonalds again. I personally would never want to work at McDonalds, but it's nice to know that if I really wanted to, the military has little say in it.

I also can get my GI Bill, and a VA home loan. This process took a long time. The VA is slow. It took 11 months and a letter from one of my senators (use those constituate services, they want your vote!) to get my home loan letter. Miracously 2 weeks after they received a letter from my senator I got the approval for the loan. Then I found out I could get the GI Bill too, that took about 2 months to get approved. You don't necessarily need to be honorably discharged to get those either. If you extended beyond your initial service you also qualify.

see www.va.gov/ogc/docs/PREC_10-92.doc

There is a lot of government info on the web. Especially legal stuff. At first I was scared to try anything because I believed the Navy's lies, but the more I checked into it, the more their lies faded and I saw that if I want something, I can get it, I just need to be persistent. There is a positive and negative way to look at any situation. The military in general focuses on negative. YOU have the power to change any situation are in into a positive (even a positive THC, I was only 36 nanograms ;) )

Michael Ryan on January 7, 2006 7:36 PM

I was wondering with my case which you can read up above should I start asking questions about why it is taking so long to process me out I do have a job lined up a much better paying job. I almost want to get an attorney because even know I recieved a general discharge for failed piss test(the test percentage was 17 nanograms barely failing. Well after finding out DAPA had a brief with the command and said a speech about drugs and failing it and then pointed that I was a hot shit sailor that did drugs and now is being kicked out I thought there was a privacy act when this kinda thing happens. If there is any way of getting this long drawn out process quickens I really need to know.. Please help I want out of this crap they are putting me through. oh and by the way the standard to pass a piss test is 15 nanograms.

i recently popped on a piss test for coke and there was no way out of it. i chose to have a summary court martial and know i am serving 45/45 after the colonol ellected to not send me to the brigg. i have a positive outlook on my situation. i want to try to fight the discharge but i dont want to have to deal with my current command. could someone tell me how hard it is to get a discharge upgraded after i am out and what steps i need to take.

mayday, haven't you read these post? That's what we all want, well most of us anyway. It's very difficult to get your discharge upgraded but, not impossible. There are things you can do after you get out but you may have to face the harsh reality we all have thus far. You may end up like some of us and accept your OTH and move on with your life. Don't let a piece of paper define who you are and your abilities. I'm not trying to preach to you but the majority of the people on this post earned their discharge. It's up to you to discontinue the behavior you were found guilty of and be that good soldier you were in civilian clothes. It's hard, I'll be the first to admit it.But you are not alone. This is your unit now.

It pisses me off that at the age of 36, I'm not entitled to va benefits. I received a O.T.H. and I might as well got a dishonorable discharge. Couldn't they at least throw me a fucking bone. I still suffer from alcoholism and substance abuse. I work everyday I get a chance but without a driver's license, I never get ahead. You have to accept poverty level wages with a 12th grade education and no licence. If I kill myself now they won't even bury me. And to think, I could have been in war, scared and possibly could have died but by god if after all that I came back and did a pinch hit, I am paying all my life savings to healthcare to stay alive. The black girls with ten kids get free housing and food stamps yet I am expected to work as a slave and accept the hole i dug as my casket. The only difference is, I'm still alive. Fuck the god damn Navy and this bullshit country. The treatment place has fucked me around for about 10 years. Each year I tried to a license and each year they played head games until I gave up. Each year I tried to stay drunk because I felt despair and hopeless. I might see the end real soon. I have spent the las ten years in construction and so I work hard and use medication to numb my physical and psychological pain. I should have listened to my goddamn parents. The suffering is almost over and I don't give a shit about any fucked up mad at me god. I tryed to stay clean and sober. It's impossible to deal with these assholes and then have my future dictated and spelled out to me by a beurocracy. Millions of people commit suicide yet they still cater to the rich happy go fuckin lucky people. There may be a god but I have no respect for a god that puts people here to suffer with fear of the future. Yeah, I made a mistake but I didn't molest someone or kill someone or rob someone. I'm from a poor family I never stood a chance. Goodbye, I doubt if I make it 2 months.

Danen Wildenradt on January 11, 2006 6:31 AM

I was just discharged out of the navy with a General under honorable conditions, for pattern of misconduct. Now that Im out I don't know exactly what type of impact its goin g to have on jobs. I just got home the other day and have not started looking. I recieved an RE4 code and heard that I would not be eligible for unemployment does anyone know about that? Also how bad is a General discharge? Pretty much anything but an honorable is junk? let me know thanks

briandaniels98@hotmail.com

Brian I don't think a general discharge is as bad as you think if you want to upgrade it in 6 months you have to fill some paper work out and do some community services or something and you can more than likely have it honorable and stay out of trouble. How long was your process for you to get out? See I'm in the position right now just waiting for my final orders. If you can let me know what your process was it help me please. Did you also apply for unemployment or just heard that you can't? Write back

RCF I have not yet filed for unemployment yet Im still waiting for my DD 214 to come in the mail. I know that with a General they say you keep most of your benefits. I was discharge pretty quick because my command is getting ready for deployment so they are getting "all there ducks in a row" there were 2 others discharged as well. They paid for me and my family to move to RI from cali so that was good. I know they are letting me sell my leave days back as well 37 days in total so not too bad. Ive been out a week and it feels great I have very little regret I will pursue my education and not look back.....If I find out about unemployment Ill let you know...

hey guys look into joing the army national guard in your state. i got discharged with a general in 2005 and i right after started speaking to a national guard recruiter. he told me i hade to finish my original enlistment commitment before i could reenlist for regular time. which was perfect for me since i hated the military. but i would of been good after doing the time in the guard. it would of looked like a simple transfer. so i had to do a little less than 2 years and then i would of gotten a new dd214 which would say honorable. it would also would state my active duty time. thats crazy right well u guys should take advantage since the army in under manned. all my medals plus my last rank would of been used in the guard. but i ended up getting picked up by a company working in iraq doing over 100k a year, must of it tax free. when i look back at he navy i cant believe i wasted 3 years of my life in a ship dealing with all the bullshit. i was really depressed. but now i go home every 4 months, got a fat bank account and i just got done buying a house. im only 22. one more year with this company and i will go home and open up my franchise. but if i would of stayed in the navy the only thing i could of looked forward to is making E5. i didnt lie to get this job. they asked if i have been in the military and i said yes but they never asked what type of discharge. when they wanted to see a copy of the dd214 i gave them the one that didnt say the discharge. i have meet several people working in iraq that could relate to me. i hope this message could help somebody out.

Danen Wildenrardt,
I think you have every right to be angry and hold a grudge against the Navy and a system which has obviously failed you. Somebody dropped the ball in your case. I am sure, well almost sure from reading your post that you exhibited some behavior which your LPO's or Chiefs should have picked up on. I hope you find something to help you thru these hard times. I hope you get your license and go to truck driving school or something whing changes your outlook on life. You are my shipmate and I hope the best for you. I can see you have been thru some rough times and I feel your pain. But, we all have been thru rough times but life get's better if you stop doing the things which hurt yourself. I was on drugs and alcohol for years after my discharge. I was homeless from Washington DC to San Diego. I couldn't hold a job and lost my family. I ended up in prison and was suicidal. My life began to change when I stopped doing the drugs and alcohol. I have been clean for 11 years now and my life is great. I live in a $250.000 house, own 3 cars and have a house full of great stuff. I know you can't see how to get there from where you are but you will never get there doing illegal things. You can do it and the guys on this site can and will help. You aren't alone. We all have been kicked out, we all have had to overcome some adversity and thank God some of us are doing pretty good. Don't give up shipmate, don't let the bastards beat you. One more thing, the black girl with the ten kids has a white neighbor with 11.

i'd like to say thank you to everyone on here. there is something you can learn from everyone. i am still on retriction at the moment and i still have no idea when this shit will be over but i am tring to get the ball rolling so i did my seps classes and taps. hoping that that will help speed up the process. i have asked my comand about when this oth deal will happen but they keep beating around the bush and just say that they are kicking me out. even though i have done 4 and a half years of a five year enlistment. if anyone knowns of any other things i could do to speed up this procees could you let me know.

hey i just wanted to inform anyone who cares that saying you're gay doesn't automatically get you out right away. i've been trying to get out of the navy for a while, and i tried telling them i was gay. i played it off perfectly, talking to the chaplain first, then my command. well, they shit themsleves and swept it under the rug, saying that nowadays in 'today's navy' you have to get caught in the act to receive a discharge. just some fyi

Danen Wildenradt,
It sucks to hear about all the shit your going through, but just know that I went through some bullshit just as bad..and let me be the first to say that that the god whom you feel is putting you into some sort of posistion is actually the one trying to get you out of your situation. Listen to me man, I'm 25 years old I was in the Army for 2 years , one of which was waiting for my discharge(fuckin OTH kiss of death piece of shitpaper) anyways, I left the service due some bullshit that was happening back home with my then fiance', to make a long story short I was pussy whipped and fell for her lies and went AWOL without knowing it was for me to come back home so she'd leave me and get me for Child Support. She waited awhile first but when it all started to go down hill was when I looked in the mirror and saw a soldier staring back at me, one that I had abandoned forever for some stupid girl and her plan to get child support for herself for the next 18 years (only 13 more to go!!! woohoo!). When I saw this sad Pvt. before me I decided to end it all out of shame. I left a note for her to give my infant son when he was old enough that simply said "Tell Ryan I loved him" after all I left the service in order to be there when he was born and to give him a permanent home, then realizing that she didn't want me in the picture I left her house and road marched 4 miles to my dads house which he wasn't living there, he mostly stayed at his girlfriends house, I went inside, grabbed his 12 Ga. loaded it , cocked it and put it in my mouth, took a last breath and BOOM! My bedroom door flew open and there she was, my fiance' and her little sister. They had gotten their mom out of bed to go find me, We were all crying and me being a very polite guy couldn't blow my brains out with her little sister in the room. So we argued for about 15 minutes about how I wanted emberly to leave the room so I could do it. Finally I just wanted her out of my sight so I gave her the shotgun and said leave me alone. That was 6 years ago, sure I hated everything at that time but suicide is just a permanent solution for a temporary problem. I spent 8 months in jail(for failure to pay support) due to her greedyness since then, did lots of mary jane, stole car stereos, and a Yamaha Banshee (which later got stolen from me!) My point is, I did lots of supid shit since my OTH, and regret even leaving my brothers in arms for that bitch. But you just have to let go of it all, fuck it man. Don't kill yourself....if you have nothing worth staying in your area for move, don't associate with people that bring you down, don't surround yourself with ideas and things that have you in the wrong frame of mind. It sound's like you need a change in scenery. I'm serious man, I might not be doing the best as I did when I was in the service but it is slowly working itself back. I'm married to beautiful women...very pretty. She is in the Air Force, we've been best Friends through all of my down times (about 9 years worth),we just had a precious bouncing baby boy who turns 3 mos this month, I started school majoring in criminal justice (I figured since I don't have a record, I can't beat 'em might as well join 'em)I'll be graduated in a year and a half, I live fairly large, can't complain too much, and pretty soon I'm buying 1995 5.0 Cobra. It all works out if you just ride it out. But you have to put some effort into it. Sitting around feeling sorry for yourself don't cut it man. Don't fight God, reconcile, learn from him,it's OK to ask him questions. If you want answers you will get them, just listen. Get invovled in some sort of grant program and put yourself through school, I only go to one class per week and next year I'll be working in law enforcement. Dude instead of bitching about the system that obviously failed you just as well as it did all of us here....USE IT!!!! Milk the fucking system dry for all the grants and loans and whatever other programs that will benefit YOU! I hope one day you wake up in bed and rub your bed sheet and say WTF!!!! Silk sheets? Where am.....who is this foxy lady laying beside me? Oh thats right I'm at home, and i'm expecting my 50" Plasma HDTV to be delivered today and I also have to pick up my 427 Cobra from the detail place today and that peon Bill gates is supposed to have called me to ask what kind of desk I want for MY office or I should I say his OLD office....ha ha ha schmuck! I honestly hope the best for you, just hang in there man you will do great if you try.

I just had a job interview and i listed my time in the military on my resume. I was in the Navy for two years and ended up going awol due to depression and received an OTH. Anyway, the interviewer was being informal and asked what type of discharge I received, wanted to know what i did in the navy, etc... why i only spent two years in. I was really uncomfortable answering these questions and when he asked about the type of discharge I just told him general and made up a reason why I got out.

In retrospect I shouldn't have said anything but I want the job and I couldn't very well skirt around the issue. Are people allowed to ask you that kind of stuff in an interview? What should I say in the future about my OTH? It's something I really don't want to talk about to anyone as i'm still coming to terms with it but i'm so confused as how to talk about it.

Hey the Military isn't bad. I like it. I know I won't get an OTH, because I don't do drugs, and I live a clean drug free life. Wow, the benefits...My college is paid for, I get to travel, serve my country and I don't have to worry about job security. I get 30, yes 30 days of vacation a year. I don't know of any company that offers that. Man, I'm only 19 and I have my own office. I'm sorry you guys feel this way, but I'm having a great time.

hi I need some help. I have been on here before. My fiance was UA for a week or so and went back to his duty station to "hopefully" pop of a pee test and get out, but isntead we found out that he is to be sent to iraq in a couple of weeks. this was a total shock. He is ready to go AWOL nothing I have said has helped him to decide to stay. I'm not asking for you to tell me to tell him not to do it. I'm just wondering if you know what will happen to him. He is in the USMC I talked to a GI Rights hotline person they said he oould turn himself in to quantico after a while and get the OTH can anyone confirm this? Also since he left during a deployment will the punishment be worse?? thanks

The military sucks and, why are all of you enlisted for. If one shall enter the military go in an as an offcier, still sucks, or do not go in at all. The military is nothing without congress, the lowest ranking person one percieves in congress, shall be the highest person in the "military." What i infer is that the military is nothing. Go to school, get an education, and get a real job. People would give you a higher salary for hiding that you are in the military, not for saying that you were in. The reason being is that employers can(and will) give former-military members low salaries. Have you ever seen old vietnam veterans walking around in shitty clothes.Well, they were in the military for 20 years and retired SFC. Who gives a fuck.

WAR SUCKS

hey tommy u should set higher standards for yourself. the money looks great now since u r only 19 but when u start having kids and buying a house u will start noticing that u r poor. unless u stay deployed and save every little bit of money u have. i always been drug free in my career. i was kicked out because i went to mass 2 times in 31/2years. fuck i was so depressed. the first time i went to mast because my liberty buddy got into a liberty incident. so we both got fucked. my second time u could say i messed up and had a alcohol incident. nuthing serious, no charges just the fact that shore patrol found out i was drunk. this happened in yokosuka, japan. i had a good navy record and my chain of command backed me up to the end but the CO made up his mind he didnt want me to stay in. they give 2 much power to one man and he obviously abused it. i also had a couple months left in the shitty command. ever since my first day on the ship i right away knew the navy was not for me. 3 years later(more than 2 underway) and dealing with the bullshit of the liberty card policies i wasnt allowed to stay in the navy over some bullshit. when they had this other guy with 2 alcohol incident and only six months in the navy. thing is he was white and im not. so fuck the navy. now im glad that i got booted out because i would of still be in the navy with little money and depressed like a mother fucker. know i make over 100k just bought a house and i got a fat bank account. im working in iraq i get to go home 60 days a year which is mostly paid. my company pays for everything so really nuthing has to come out of my pockets. got done with my first year so know i have options of moving around the world. god i love this company. but naw ima quit next year and open up my own businees. all them options that i have because im no longer in the navy. i was looking into a bmw which i could pay of completly in 4 months. gosh life is good. fuck the crappy navy im so glad that im out. now little officer people call me sir. being the good guy that i am, ever since i got my life back and got out the crappy navy i dont even drink to get drunk no more. i remember my and my boys would be so depressed we would get fucked up so we could escape the reality of being in the navy. i saw people like tommy who spent some years on shore duty but 6 months into the ship tour they want to get out of the navy. ive seen E6 crying because they hate the ship. tommy aim higher in life u r to young to settle for so little.

First I would like to say thanks to everyone who posted. I'm sorry about the shit you had to go through but it's nice to know that I am not the only out there with this.

So I received an OTH discharge from the USMC about 3-4 years ago. But here are the circumstances. I was a reservist (go ahead make your jokes but I spent 3.5 years active duty) and signed my contract to become a 5953. 3/4 of the way through my MOS training I get orders to leave my classes and report to my new station, which at the time was being disbanded. So I didn't get the mos that I was contracted to and was then expected to get another mos after my unit disbanded. So pretty much I was pissed that they screwed me over and wanted me to go to a different school so I left.

Other than that I have a perfect record and was the poster Marine. Does anyone know if I can upgrade my discharge becuase the USMC broke their contract to me? (Yes reservists are "guarenteed" an MOS.) Oh and as a side note, the USMC gave me severe frostnip early on in my military "career"(it is noted in my medical records by a navy dr)but yet I didn't bitch moan or conplain.

Hello,
I was in the USMC back in 1985-1987, I was discharged with OTH.
I was in there young and impressionable, I had to withstand fellow soldiers taunting me ,being I'm from Jamaica.
Ever since I have been out, I have kept myself out of trouble.
I would love to serve my country again to redeem my self, I want to join the military again at 39. I tried appealing to the board befor the 15 year mark. I barely know my rights
Is it possible for me to get a change of discharge?
Please let me know.
I am not in the wealthy bracket , but i do want to have this done.

Thank you
Respectfully,
Peter Bernard

Hey guys, sad to hear your stories. However, the average officer in any military organization (in the United States) has a lower "ASVAB" scores than at least "9 percent" of enlisted soldiers. What does this mean? Well, it means that officers are not that smart. First of all, the military lawyers have been sourced as having graduated "lowest" in their law school. This is true for most military professions, but keep that in mind. If you see that fact, then you would like to see others. For instance, throughout studies and statistics gathered by many organizations have found that all officers in the military rank, on average, lower than 75% of the average graduate. What does this mean, some may ask? Well, it means that for every 40 students in a calculus 1 class,history class, science class, that the "future" military officers will finish, on average, as the 10 worst in that class. I hope this motivates all of you, even though you should not need it, because most of you are 18 and 19 years old; YOU HAVE YOUR WHOLE LIFE TO ADVANCE. DO NOT SETTLE FOR MCDONALDS, BUT ADVANCE AND BE GREAT.

virginia tech university FACTMAN on January 20, 2006 5:39 PM

Great Websiste.....www.antiwar.com/casualties/
I got an OTH about a year and a half ago. Not because I wanted to stay in the military, however, but because I wanted to get out. No big deal.LOL It was harder than I thought. But my old company has been to Iraq since then and my commander is dead. I know a couple of other NCO's blew up in humvee. When I first seen it I laughed and am happy with making 40,000$ a year. It isn't the greateast of money, but at least I ain't dead. By the way I should be getting raise shortly. If you want to get out of the military and OTH isn't a big of a deal, then get drunk in the field and say you are an alcoholic. Say you can never quit and you won't, and you are good to go. By the way, do not go to rehab, do 45 days extra duty and be lousy at PT (even though I was a high school quarterback!) and you should be out in 2 months. Do not do this if your family has no money. Life is great.

Steve Prosser on January 21, 2006 12:03 PM

I was just curious if a Bad Conduct Discharge was listed as soemthing like a misdemeaner on a criminal background check or if it was listed like a felony. thanks:)

No, it is a felony. As you may know it is worse, and a felony is on the criminal background check. However, if you move to Canada then it will not show up on records, because it is a federal military jurisdiction entry.This only works for military decisions, so if you got in trouble with the law out of military you are fine, but military jurisdiction entries are not taken into account with Canadian National databases. It will show up on your records like this:
Date: (Whatever date of Military Court Date)_
Place: What military Installation Court Took Place
Offence: What You did. For example, AWOL,drug possession,

Any government job will have access to your military records, but jobs like UPS and Micorosoft will not. If you work in public sector you are fine, but not in gevernment sector. Basically, look at it like this: you can run for congress and military records are irrelevant(No one has authority to release them unless the person himself wants to.) However, but if you want to work for jobs that congress created then they will view military records. This shows how the system is really bearuocratic. This means that everything is good. Government lawyers make less than civilian lawyers, same with doctors, and so on. So government jobs are not all that great, but it depends if you want to work for the CIA and FBI or control them. An OTH discharge means absolutely nothing escept personal perception. The same people who told you otherwise, made you percieve, are people who are no where in a position to tell you anything. How could they, many of the worlds questions are still unanswered.

FBI AGENT #2 on January 23, 2006 5:57 PM

Has anyone applied for unemployment and get it? Does anyone know if you can get it with a general discharge with misconduct? Any help thanks...

I JUST GOT AN OTH FROM THE NAVY FOR ARTICLE 112A POSESSION OF MARIJUANA. IT SUCKS THAT I GOT KICKED OUT, BUT I AM TRYING TO MOVE ON IN LIFE. I AM APPLYING FOR COLLEGE RIGHT NOW, AN I HAD TO FILL OUT A FAFSA FORM FOR FINANCIAL AIDE.... IT ASKS IN ONE OF THE SECTIONS IF THE APPLICANT HAS EVERY SERVED IN THE ARMED FORCES AND RECEIVED A DISCHARGE OTHER THAN DISHONORABLE. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF HAVING AN OTH WILL AFFECT FINACIAL AIDE BENIFITS FOR COLLEGE. IT ALSO ASKS IF THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF ANY FELONY OR MISDIMENOR DRUG CHARGES.... HOW DO I ANSWER THIS QUESTION? IS AN OTH FOR DRUGS CONSIDERED A DRUG CONVICTION? I ALSO LEFT THE NAVY ON ADMIN LEAVE STATUS AND HAVE NOT RECEIVED A COPY OF MY DD 214. WHERE CAN I GO TO FIND OUT WHAT THE STATUS OF MY DISCHARGE IS.... MY SHIP IS ON DEPLOYMENT RIGHT NOW, AND I DONT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. I LEFT MY SHIP 2 MONTHS AGO, AND I DONT EVEN KNOW IF I AM STILL IN THE NAVY... I JUST WANT TO FORGET ABOUT THE 3 YEARS WASTED IN THE NAVY AND GET A COLLEGE DEGEE.

A OTH is not dishonorbale so the answer is yes. An OTH is not kept ON RECORDS, so you are good to go. It doesnt matter if you commited murder, because if you get an OTH it is not kept on file. You have the green light.

Tony, just tell them what you want about your discharge. They aren't supposed to ask you.

SEE www.osc.gov/userra.htm for information about the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act. It specifically prohibits discrimination base on military service and type of dischage. If someone asks you, they are breaking the law. Not all interviewers may know this, but that's just ignorace of the law. I've had a couple of interviews by professionals, and they knew what they could and could not ask. They can ask how long you were in and what type of work you did or training you recieved. But not WHY you left or HOW you got out. Also in the real world, they can't check unless you sign a SF-180. And they won't make you sign one unless they have a legal reason to, like you need a government security clearence to have that job. So tell them you had a two year elistment, or tell them you had a medical discharge, or be a smart ass and tell them they have no right to ask that per the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act and you may have to contact a lawyer if you don't get that job. It might not work, but you would certianly educate someone on the law. You would expect someone to ask you what religion you were and how you practiced it, right? Why? That's the LAW. Same thing applies to you military service.

Michael Ryan on January 26, 2006 7:17 AM

THANKS FOR THE INFO AND THE WEBPAGE. I DID ALOT MORE RESEARCH, AND I AM NOT FEELING AS WORRIED ABOUT THIS STUFF. I HAVE ALREADY SUBMITTED MY COLLEGE APPLICATIONS, FAFSA FORM, AND SCHOLARSHIP ESSAYS. I AM JUST WAITING TO HEAR BACK ON THE RESULTS. GETTING JUST ONE ONE ACCEPTANCE LETTER WILL LIFT A HUGE LOAD OFF MY SHOULDERS. I AM STILL WORRIED ABOUT RECIEVING MY DD 214, BUT MY SHIP IS ON DEPLOYMENT...AND THE NAVY MAILING SYSTEM IS HORRIBLE. WELL ANYWAY IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE THAT IS IN THE SAME SITUATION AS I AM, AND WANTS TO GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE SUBJECT. LEAVE A POST AND I WILL TRY TO GIVE YOU SOME ANSWERS.... THERE IS ALOT OF INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS AFTER RECEIVING AN OTH DISCHARGE.... YOU JUST GOT TO DIG FOR IT.

I just don't understand how or why Servicemembers who are currently serving are so fucking critical about us OTH'ers. WTF!!! I have a thread on military.com entitled "RE-4's sound off about getting back in"(Sorry Aaron if I multi-posted, not sure what it means)and all I keep getting is negative bullshit comments!! Lots of assholes with fevered egos trying to talk me down and say we're all fuck ups and not worth a shit to the service. They just don't understand that we just had some kind of problem that knocked us over and we couldn't recover from it. Can I get a AMEN!? C. Jackson you there? How do you feel? I look up to you man and value your input.

Holley, I'm still around, just keeping my nose clear of the naysayers we find on these sites. There will always be those who find some sick pleasure out of ragging on others, it comes with the territory. These are the people who find something lacking in their own lives and MUST find someone to put down in order to lift themselves up. As you stated in your post; we all went thru something that sent us for a loop and we couldn't recover from it. At least while we were in uniform. But, there is life after the military and some of those pukes couldn't hack the things we've been thru. It is most difficult to begin again after being shot down by the military but it is possible. I and many others have found some form of success since hanging up our dress uniforms. Those who give us shit over bad decisions will one day get theirs, we just won't be around to see it. The sun shines on the just as well as the unjust so our time in the sun will come. You, me or any of the rest of the OTHers on this site can draw strength and encouragement from those who have gone before us. We have nothing to prove to the few ass holes who find it amusing to berate and attempt to negatively influence our frame of mind. We didn't need the military to define who we are nor do we need those certain few who spout a load of shit to measure ourselves by. All in all there are some very good people on this site who have pulled themselves up by their boot straps to make a life for themselves outside the military. Saddly the ones doing all the talking probably couldn't or wouldn't survive the things we've been thru. I have met ass holes like them while I was in uniform and watched as they abused others because this was their first time being in certain positions. They don't find anything wrong with kicking a man when he's down. All the time living in fear their own faults will someday come to the surface. So, Holley, don't let the bastards get in your head. Don't let the fact they belong to a small fraternity of men and women who have to stand on the backs of others to see over the pile of shit which is their lives. The military has some pretty decent guys in it and we didn't get the benefit of serving with them. We had the E-4's and up who wore t-shirts which read" Not in my Navy and not on my watch." These same ass wipes were the ones who stumbled back to the ship too drunk to get underway in an emergency. Yeah, I got high but it never affected my performance and I never did it aboard ship. The only proof they ever had that I was doing drugs was when they took bodily fluids from me. When I got off my last ship in Yokusuka, Japan, the guys on my ship hoisted me on their shoulders and took me across the flight deck while singing for he's a jolly good fellow. In the midst of all this were hugs and tears from guys who were genuinely sorry to see me leave no matter the circumstances of my discharge. My best friend who retired as an OS1 told me something I will share with you; He said that in his opinion I served honorably everday of my enlistment except for the day I got popped on a wizz quiz. Don't let the results of a urinalysis dictate what kind of sailor you were and definately not the kind of person you are. To me and a lot of guys on this site you are our shipmate and brother in arms no matter what a piece of paper says. I know you can't hang that on the wall for all to see but keep it in your heart and in your mind where it really counts. In the words of one of my dearest shipmates: If they can't take a toke, fuckem. Life goes on and when all is said and done you still have more guys on your side than they ever will have. Don't misunderstand me Holley, there is nothing wrong with following the rules and reg's. I salute the guys who remain 4.0 in the face of adversity. They made better decisions than we did. But we are older and wiser now and given the chance would run circles around most of them. I don't have anything negative to say about the guys who spout negative rhetoric on your RE-4 site but, it does make me wonder what kind of American would, seeing a man down on his luck and kick dirt in his face with their words. You have a place here, you are not looked down on just because the military didn't wait for you to grow up and mature. Be proud of whatever time you spent in uniform, God knows I am.

Thanks C.Jackson....I have to admit they were getting to my head. Even in a wierd way got me feeling like my own wife might have been buying their bullshit since she reads the site also. I asked my brother in law what he thought about a person with an RE-4/OTH trying to reenlist and he said "It wouldn't bother me any, If anybody with that discharge felt like they could do their job in the service....Go for It!!" I guess I just get sickened when I think about how it feels to me when I see negative bullshit comments or see things on the news about some asshole. It makes me feel like the whole country is starting to become full of these shitbirds and before you know it you won't even be able to buy a pack of smokes or put gas in your car because some asshole will come up to you and call you all kinds of fucked up names and tell you how much of an asshole you are for putting gas in your P.O.S car that pollutes his enviroment, or how that cigarette is pissing him off because he doesn't like the smell. I mean come on, is it so hard to accept the fact that alot of us OTH'ers want back in? Then they throw this fucking honor insult in our faces, well...I'd be honored to get in the ring with some of these guys and kick the shit out of 'em!. Sorry just venting, my argument on the site was I feel us OTH'ers didn't disgrace the uniform, we may have had a situation arise while in uniform that we couldn't avoid, but I feel the people in uniform currently that are throwing the stones and shouting insults are the ones digracing the uniform, they aren't acting like true professionals. Thats sad. But anyhow, I truly appreciate your post C.jackson, it actually had me in tears on some parts, If I am your shipmate (Navy) then you undoubtedly are my battle buddy (Army),and as I was always told "take care of yourself, be alert and see you at the trails end"

Holley, thanks for saying the things you did in your post. We all have a rough road ahead of us and having an OTH only makes it more difficult. That you have not given up is a testament of the inner strength you have. It does not matter what those in or out of uniform thinks of us. They don't pay our bills or take care of us in any way so don't listen to their rhetoric. It doesn't mean anything. When they throw words like honor at you, remind yourself of the first time you saw yourself in uniform. That person in the mirror was only wearing a suit of clothes. The honor, pride and Espirit de corps was what filled the uniform out. It's what's inside of you that made you who you were/are. The way you carry yourself now is the only thing that matters. Yeah, it would be great to put the dress blues back on and serve my country. But I serve my country everyday by being a good American. I obey the law and help my fellow man when I can. It doesn't matter what you are wearing when you help someone less fortunate than you are. Holley, I won't blow smoke up your ass by telling you it doesn't hurt when I look in my closet and see my uniform hanging there with my ribbons on it. It's like looking at a picture of a girl I was in love with that dumped me. I will always regret doing the things I did which got me kicked out. But I have so many good memories and life long friends that still respects and cares for me. I have read your post Holley and you seem like the kind of guy I would have invited to my apartment to watch the game and throw back a few beers with. I feel the same pains as you when it comes to our military service. I put my life in someone else's hands and some have put their lives in mine and it makes no difference what my DD-214 says. When the shit hit the fan my actions were honorable. When I stepped off the ship in all those countries I was sent to my actions were honorable. I refuse to let a piece of paper define who I am and what I did while in uniform. And anyone who stands in front of me and spouts off a line of bullshit because I got an OTH will get a mouth full of knuckles. To me you are an honorable man because you stood there and raised your hand and took the oath just like I did. You went where they sent you and did your duty. So, you had a couple of situations where you didn't make the right choices. So what? Life goes on, you have a wife and that is a blessing. You have your health, another blessing, you have a chance to be successful, that's a blessing. You have me and all the other OTH'ers on this site when things get too hard, we'll listen and offer our opinions that might help you get over whatever it is you are dealing with. You are not alone my friend. And, because of you, neither am I. Thanks Holley, thanks for being my friend eventhough I have an OTH. You don't look down on me or judge me. That means more than mere words can convey. Anytime, for any reason you can reach me at ptyofcr2@aol.com. Go easy man. God bless you and your family.

I served 2 1/2 years in the Seabees. I popped twice for marijuana and was sent to court martial. I was sentenced 60 days in the brig and an OTH. That was back in 2002. I am now a nurse and my court martial never showed up on any background checks done by my employers or the state board of nursing. They told me it would show up like a felony charge on my record . Bull Shit. And the brig was a lot better than my battalion (as far as the work load) And you get paid in the brig. I did anyway. The only thing that sucks is I lost my gi bill. Oh Well.. I was never meant for military life....By the way I enlisted when I was 17 and the recruiter forged my mothers signature. Your just a number from the beginning to the end of your enlistment. Do yourself a favor and get out if you are miserable. I am so much happier and successful now then I would have ever been working in a warehouse in Gulfport Mississippi. Sorry for the typos....

I served 2 1/2 years in the Seabees. I popped twice for marijuana and was sent to court martial. I was sentenced 60 days in the brig and an OTH. That was back in 2002. I am now a nurse and my court martial never showed up on any background checks done by my employers or the state board of nursing. They told me it would show up like a felony charge on my record . Bull Shit. And the brig was a lot better than my battalion (as far as the work load) And you get paid in the brig. I did anyway. The only thing that sucks is I lost my gi bill. Oh Well.. I was never meant for military life....By the way I enlisted when I was 17 and the recruiter forged my mothers signature. Your just a number from the beginning to the end of your enlistment. Do yourself a favor and get out if you are miserable. I am so much happier and successful now then I would have ever been working in a warehouse in Gulfport Mississippi. Sorry for the typos....

Quick question, I know an OTH isn't shit but I just want to make sure if I apply for a job at a police station to be a Patrol Officer or I apply at a state/County prison as a Deputy/corrections officer it isn't gonna screw me. I have full intentions of not even putting any military service down at all since I don't feel like going into why I got out with an OTH and all that jazz. What will show up on the National Database search? Will it say "OTH, don't fucking hire this person, yours truly Uncle Sam"? Need answers, C.Jackson do you know about how this OTH will affect me being a Police Officer/Deputy/Corrections Officer?

Holley, I haven't the slightest idea what will or won't show up if you apply for a job with any Department Of Corrections or law enforcement position. But, I can make some calls to some ex-military types who do know the answers. I know how it feels to continuely beat your head against a brick wall. There are some jobs I won't even consider because I have an OTH. But, nothing beats a failure but a try. I'll get back with you in a day or so to let you know what I find out. Until then, keep your head up my friend and don't give up.

I do have to say that you can collect unemployment with a "General Under honorable conditions" "Section 8521 of title 5 of the united states code as ammended by section 301 of the emergency unemplotment compensation act of 1991" As long as you 1: completed over 90 continuous days service 2: you were discharged or released UNDER HONORABLE conditions 3: But if it is because of a personality disorder or inaptitude, it has to be for 365 days or more. I am still 3 weeks later waiting on my DD214 and my command is busting my balls about it, so I can collect but I stated my case to unemployment and they are waiting for me. I hope this is a help to some people out here. I was discharged from the navy for Pattern of misconduct but I was drunk for ever incident I had. I should have been medically discharged but the wanted me to get an OTH. I fought it and I got what I wanted. I think that the best thing yourcould do is to take the decision of discharge from your CO and refuse NJP. The most they can do is give you a General Under Honorable Conditions or court marshall but if you know that you are going to get fucked you have nothing to lose. Ignorance of the law is no excuse and it works 2 ways...

hey FTN2006 I got the same thing you got a general discharge but I got it for hot piss test I fought my case and won really. I'm still in 6 months close to 7 months later they are killing me with this long drawn out process. They told me they would pack me up but not pay for the travel back to HOR. They said I had to have done at least 90 percent of my obligated service to get per diem pay for driving. Is that true did you get money to drive home or just a pack out? Also when you got your general discharge even know you had misconduct does the misconduct go away with having a general discharge or is it stated on something the reason of separation? Are you filing unemployment where you was or in your HOR? See I was told to file where you became unemployed. Just I really don't know what to do any help with all this I would appreciate. Oh does anyone know how long can they keep you in after they determine that you are being separated?

I have the same old song and dance about getting an OTH in the Navy for steriod use.......blah blah blah! I would like to know about the whole being a police officer thing with an oth. I have done everything I can imagine to correct my discharge and go back in, with no luck. I was discharged 7 years ago for steriods. Tried to get into the ARNG 2 months after they changed the requirements, NOW THEY WILL NOT TAKE OTH'S!! PERIOD! So I would like to give up my great income in real estate and become a police officer. WHY??? YOU ASK?? Because regaining my lost honor is way more important than 6 figures a year! OH AND BY THE WAY....FROG YOU SHOULD BE DEPORTED TO IRAQ AND USED AS A PRACTICE TARGET FOR REAL MEN!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott Yingling on February 5, 2006 3:07 PM

Scott
I have never understood people who thought their uniform defined their quality of life or personal honor.

To me it is far more honorable to be able to avoid the structure others offer you and to be able to set up your own framework to live by and make a living doing whatever your dream is.

I am sure you could go be a cop somewhere if you really wanted to...but if you can't that is just because you don't want to.

I'm glad I found this website, because it has helped me out a lot. Today my husband had a court marshall because he pissed hot twice on Marijuana. They gave him 21 days of confinment, and reduction to E1, he was an E4. I do think that the commander took some mercy on him considering that he was being charged for two accounts. They say that when he is realesed from Jail, that it will take up to ten days for them to decide whether he will be chaptered out. The military is not a place for him, he is constantly stressed out. The people he works for seem so ignorant, and half the time I think that they like to make soldiers suffer for no apparent reason. His company is getting ready to move to Japan, so hopefully we will not be leaving with them. I'm glad to see that many of you have become sucessful after receiving an OTH discharge. With us being in war with Iraq, I'm learning and seeing that this is more of a blessing. I've meet soldiers that went to war, and most of them return not well.

Here's my experience with receiving an OTH discharge...sorry

if this sounds "dry", I plucked it from my Celebrate Recovery

testimony.


"When I was 23, I had an automobile accident after a

bachelorís party for a Navy friend. The plan was to continue

partying elsewhere and I was following a friend to that location.

I ran into his car from behind as he was making a right turn. His

car completely flipped over. Luckily, no one was hurt in the

accident. However several things came out of the accident. "



"First, I pleaded guilty to driving while intoxicated."


"Second, because I was in the Navy, my Commanding Officer

required that I go to alchohol and drug counseling on base.I was

questioned about my alcohol and drug usage. I was very nieve

and truthful about it and admitted to smoking Marijuana and

taking speed while I was in the Navy. I was required to write a

statement of my alcohol and drug usage."



"Third, this admittance of drug usage was used against me

to discharge me under other-than-honorable conditions. I felt

like it was unfair to receive an other than honorable discharge

for something that I had admitted on my own. Even so, I was

discharged in the fall of 1989. "

-----------------lyndelld@excite.com--------------------

Danen Wildenradt,

Hang in there. Life is short. Try to make the best of the time you have. Things may seem intolerable, but if you compare your situation with about 80% of the world, you will find that your opportunities are better than theirs. Our current Preseident has been doing his best to run our country into to the ground, but hopefully the people in the U.S. will elect more responsible officials in the next election. Despite how horribly our country is being mismanaged, there are still lots of opportunities that are available for success, and your discharge will not effect you in any way, except for maybe make you want to try harder.

All financial for school is still available to you for college regardless if you got an OTH, but Asshole Bush has just cut 70 Billion in student aid, so the sooner you get to college, if you want to go this route the better.

Decide to be successfull and you will be. I got busted out of the Marines in 1985 with an OTH. Today I am a Lawyer graduating in the top of my class, and working for myself. Some of the guys have mentioned they are were for private firms in Iraq. There are many private companies in Iraq, many not even American providing services from cooking to combat patrols. The money is good and the opportunities are going to be increasing. These days it makes no since to join the military. You can go to one of these private contractor training schools, and go as a mercenary making five to ten times what the military are making, and you have no long term commitment.

There are lots of opportunities, focus on a couple and go after them.

Eric

Renee,

I am very concerned about what your fiance is trying to do. If he has not noticed we are at war. I am an attorney, but not a military lawyer, none the less, I have read up on U.A., Awol, and desertion. They very on the degree of severity. U.A. focuses on short term absences, but with the intent to return. Awol is for longer absences, but again the military person must intend to return to his unit at some time, or at least convince his command he inteded to return. Desertion simply means you leave and never intend on returning. Desertion is very serious, and if the person is lucky he will get a Bad Conduct, but most likely a Dishonorable, which means he will probably do Jail time and will never be able to vote again. There was a case a couple years back of a Marine who did three tours in Vietnam. He won a couple of silver stars, and bronze stars. After he finished his last tour and only had three months left, he went to the Philippines and deserted since he was disgusted with the face the U.S. was going to chuck the war, and all the sacrifice was for nothing. Twenty years later, the Marines caught him and gave him a bad conduct. In your fiance's case, it appears he wants to go awol intending never to return, which would actualy fit the definition of Destertion during war time. Military justice is very unpredictable, as many of this website know, as many were busted out while others who had done things worse were not. In a worse case scenario, especialy if he has told Marines in his command that he is going awol intending to get out, certainly could be viewed as desertion. Since he has not been deployed, I do not think in a worse case scenario, they could hit him with desertion in the face of the enemy. Desertion in the face of the enemy could result in execution. However, the last person executed for desertion was in the Korean War. In any event, if he gets charged with desertion, he could find him self getting a dishonorable, and do some jail time. The Marine I mentioned above got a Bad Conduct only because he had been highly decorated, certainly was not a coward, and severed almost all of his enlistment, and would not see any more combat. Your fiance needs to be very careful. If his command is out to burn him he could be in some pretty shit. The person you talked to on the G.I. hotline may not have been an attorney, and also, I know from experience, I run into attorneys all the time that give horrible advice. If your fiance really plans on doing this, I would strongly urge him to speak with a very good civilian military lawyer. I mean a good one. One who has been practicing several years and comes highly recomended. You also must understand that many active duty military lawyers, those in the JAG corps are influenced heavily by politics, and may result in very substandard representation. Although I believe there are very good JAG defense lawyers who will represent their client to the best of their ability, but others may buckle under political pressure.

Your fiance needs to be very careful, not only will he be risk getting a potential dishonerable, he will be labled a coward for the rest of his life weather he is or not.

I have read every message on this site... I may be able to give some advice on some problems concerning re-enlisting back into the military. I am currently a military recruiter. If you are thinking about joining the military again it is very possiable for you to get back in. I would even say about a 95% good chance, it really depends on what branch your considering joining and what you got discharged for. On your DD Form 214 or 215 you have an RE CODE (re-enlisting code). If you have an RE CODE of an 1, 2, 3 you have a great chance to join any branch you want. Now for those people who have a 4 or 5 your chances are slim but still good. Your best bet for you is to go to your local Recruitering offices and see what they can do for you... make sure you bring your DD Form 214 and your military record so you can plead your case. Now if you feel the recruiter is being a butt-head or flat out doesn't care go to another recruiting office. If the recruiter tells you that everything is good... make sure that he does the work, he's going to pawn it off on you. Another way you can join is check out your reserve recruiters especially the Navy. You do 2 months you can get out and get a RE CODE of an 1 (the best code) and a Honorable discharge... that is probably the fastet way to change your type of discharge. cool good luck

Whats up guys , I recently got my discharge upgraded. If anyone have any questions on how to make the SYSTEM work for you just post here or shoot me a email at molanbrown69@yahoo.com.

Hey Jake & Samuel Brown, I'd like to get my discharge upgraded in order to reenlist in the National Guard (Army or Air) and be able to get civilian work as a Police Officer or Correctional Officer (Not that I can't with it as it is, Just want to get it squared away). I have an RE-4KFS, I know what it means, but like 95% of us here on this site didn't earn this type of RE code. Instead of finding out about my problem they just said "Here take this RE-4 and enjoy it!!!" it is just a convienience for the government, not "for the good of the service" since I'm positive that most of us were damn good at our jobs. But anyways, as I was saying, How can you be so positive about someone with an Army RE-4 (or any kind of RE-4 for that matter)can reenlist? Just curious, cause whatever you know I'd be VERY happy if you passed it along! There isn't a day that goes by where I don't look in my closet (just like C. Jackson) and hurt inside looking at my BDU's just hanging collecting dust. I know that many of us OTH'ers are doing well despite, but given a choice between being my own boss and going back in and climbing the chain, I'd chose the service anyday. (Just my feelings)My family is steeped in military tradition. I feel like I'm a broken link in the age old chain. All three of my Grandfathers served in WWII, My dads father served(in the Army)36 months in str8 (No Leave)combat(Combat Engineer)while building bridges and such. My dads step father served in the navy at the same time aboard the USS North Carolina (he was onboard during the largest "SALVO" in U.S. Naval History). My uncle Merlin was a Green Beret(MACVSOG) during Vietnam.....the list goes on and on and on. So if you have any advice that will work or help shoot me a line!!!!!!

I am a SPC in the Army Reserves and just received a notice in the mail that said my commander wanted to give me an OTH for failing to attend 14 drills over the past year. I RST'd for a lot of them but I never received notice to come RST or a call to let me know when to RST and had valid reasons for failing to attend 6 of the drills. A few being my grandmother's heart attack and my mother had to get an ovarian ciss removed, and my significant other was getting an abortion. Overall it was a bad year, so does anyone know if I can appeal this OTH discharge letter and if its too late? I am a bit worried to call my Chain of Command as I am a bit nervous about it.

Also, if I want to be a Public School teacher, do I need to worry about getting an OTH discharge? I don't particularly enjoy the Army and do not want to get deployed, so this may very well be a blessing in disguise. Also, does anyone know if getting an OTH discharge hinders your ability to move to a foreign country in the future and obtain citizenship or a work visa(particularly England, Canada, or Italy)?

Thanks in advance!

You Guys have been asking some very interesting questions lately. I wish there were an agency which answered and standardized the the way us OTH'ers can obtain info. It seems the individual is his or her best ally. The way you present yourself goes far to open or close doors. I have gotten jobs with an OTH simply because I presented myself as someone who would be an asset to their company. Let's face facts, life is not written until it happens. If you don't try you will obviously never succeed. What works for one will back fire for the next. We have to be willing to risk our ego's and our pride when we attempt to improve on the hole we've dug for ourselves. We can do it though, this I believe with all my heart. We all got through boot, we all got promoted at least once, we all have inside what it takes to succeed at some level. What that level is, is up tp the individual. Stand tall guys, keep your heads up and keep at it. I know it gets to be hard at times, too hard to go on. But, you can't quit, you can't give up. Life is too short. Whether you did 2 years or 20, the only thing that matters is what you do with the time you have left. Make the most of it fellows. Espirit de corps is fine but, being a good person and a good American say's much for the kind of person you are. Let's be honest here, we've all met E-4,5&6's who were assholes and will be alone when they retire because they can't live with anyone but themselves. If you want somthing no matter how difficult to achieve then go for it. There's nothing worse than looking back over one's life and seeing only woulda, shoulda or coulda. O T H
Opportunities Take Hardwork
Good luck to us all.

I just want to know how hard would it be to become a police officer or corrections officer having an OTH under my belt.I did a solid 4 years and reenlisted and popped 2 years later. Am i screwed for life or what? please let me know.

I have the same question Smitty, but still no solid answer as of yet. I would call the Police Department directly but I feel as they wouldn't fully understand my question and just naturally say go away. I wish someone with an RE-4/OTH who is a Cop or Corrections Officer would give us a solid answer. Not just some "If you really wanted to be a Cop you can...." type answer, which I'm sure is true, but I NEED to know FACTS. Is there some Police Officer Recruitment Regulation somewhere that clearly states the facts about the policies of recruiting prior service personnel and the types of discharges that are DQ'd? I have a friend that is a Deputy Sheriff and he knows of my RE-4, he never said anything about it being a problem, but then again I never asked. The only thing that seemed to be a factor was if a criminal record was present or not.....probation, misdemeanors...anything. Which I don't have. He "illegally" checked "the scope" (The national criminal database thingy) and I came up clean, so he told me it was a GO! But I might have to call him again real soon and ask specifically about the RE-4/OTH situation. But if anyone else knows anything please let us know!!!! Whats-up C.Jackson? How you been? Fair winds my friend.....

Holley, each time I see my name in one of your post I think about the song from Cheers; Where everybody knows your name. I appreciate it Holley, makes me feel like someone out there cares. Fair winds to you also my friend and continued good hunting.

Guys, here's my two cents worth of advice when it comes to OTH and employment.

I served in the Corps for almost 4 years. I was kicked out after 3 yrs 10 months, yup only two months to go. I got an OTH for breaking restriction, which I was given for multiple UA's (as in being late for work.) I was a POG who worked for Desert Storm POG's who thought they were so hard core just because they were there banging their "happy socks" for a few months.

Anyways, I was OTH discharged in 1997. Since then I have held numerous jobs, from security guard back in the late 90's, to sales positions, to corporate admin positions, to human resource positions, to where I am now as cost accountant in the coprorate world.
The trick, don't state on your job application that you have an OTH! State that you recieved an Honorable, and that you served four (or six) solid years. They do not check! They will check an OTH because they want the details! I have never been fired because they found out about my OTH. And just play it off. Besides, what's the worst that can happen? The worst that can happen is that they will do a background check and not give you the job they wouldn't had givin you anyway. So take the chance.
Now, this will not work if you plan on applying for a government job, or a job for an organization that is run by any sort of government or public interest, such as police officer, school district, city employee, etc.
Another, but longer way is to go to college and get your degree.

Give it a shot and let me know how it works!

just like to update everyone here. since my OTH from the marines in novemeber after 7 faithfull years, i landed one job in philly building helicopters, and have just landed another closer to hom writeing tech pubs, so anyone scared that thier gonna get othed, fuck em you dont have to tell your employer shit, just know how to sell ur self and your in......

I heard some interesting comments on this site!
I can tell you first hand that it is very difficult to get your discharge upgraded.
I received a General Discharge under honorable conditons back in 1980. I can tell you that this discharge does entitle you to full VA benefits.
However, there is a stigma to this discharge as far as getting employment with a government agency or a law enforcement job. Another problem is that the civilian world tends to think that anything other than an honorable discharge is a dishonorable discharge.
It took me over 25 years and 4 trys to finally get my discharge upgraded to Honorable. I can finally say that I have peace of mind. Justice was served by patience and perserverance. I basically had to show the type of person I am today and how I changed my life. I also had character references. I only wish I had this done sooner, because it is too late for me to re-enlist because of my age. The bottom line is that everyone deserves a second chance in life. Any kind of derogatory discharge can haunt you for the rest of your life. I think the military tends to be too harsh on young men and women that are willing to fight for country.
My advise to all of you that received anything other than a full honorable discharge would be to do the following:
Appeal the decision as soon as possible by either proving the errors or injustices or by showing how you have rehabilitated yourself.
I was erroneously led to believe that my discharge would be upgraded automatically after 6 months(an old wifes tale). It is worth the effort to get your discharge upgraded and don't give up!

This is a great site! Just one frinedly suggestion.
How about reversing the order of blogs to see the most recent first rather than have to scroll all the way down to the bottom from the beginning. This way replies can be made easier!

I am facing a court martial on two counts of using Cocaine. I had a good military record prior to this but after I was under investigation I kept getting in trouble, reduction in rank from SSGT. What kind of time will I have to do if any?

I tested positive for cocaine andf my general court martial is sometime this month. I was a SSgt before this incidentt happened and once my command got word I started getting into trouble which granted I brought on myself. I have lost a stripe and been to Rehab for alcohol. What can I expect from my court martial as far as a sentence.

I,ve Been trying to get kicked out the navy (USS BONHOMME RICHARD) for a bit now. i went UA for 3 weeks but they arent gonna let me out. I just want out as quickly as possible. I have heard sometimes if u go awol and come back they just process u out-no brig time.

is it better to go U.A. for 30 days(AWOL) and come back.

-or

tell them i smoked pot while I was U,A, the first time.
?????????????????????????

Just wanted 2 tell my story...I went Ua from the Marine Corp and recived an OTH..It isn't so bad I found a job the first and only place I put in an application..Since there not allowed to ask about discharge type according to the service members employment and re-employment act right...Though this isn't my career I do plan to goto school in my next couple year..but right now i'm just getting back on my feet..So basically...Just don't let it bother you even if you did get a less than honorable discharge just use it as a learning experience and move on proud and better than you were before..Good luck..

What gets u out of the navy quicker if uve only been in for 8 months smoking pot and admitting to it--or going awol for thirty days and then comming back??

I was in USMC reserves for about 4 years. Even was activated during Desert Storm for a year. I got pretty sick of the BS, as it was like returning to boot camp once a month. I quit going and they threatened me repeatedly with an OTH, and warned me I would never be able to get a job. I was just graduating from college at the time and was very worried. I received my OTH about 11 years ago and have since held 3 separate jobs with major corporations, and had 3 security background checks. No one has ever even asked me about my military service.

I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HEARD A STORY LIKE THIS AND WHAT I SHOULD DO? ANYWAYS, I GRADUATED FROM AIT (ARMY) IN NOVEMBER 2005 AND WAS SUPPOSE TO REPORT IN ON DECEMBER 16, 2005. WELL AS YOU CAN SEE I DIDN'T AND I'M STILL AWOL. THE KICK IS THAT NO ONE HAS REPORTED IT AND THERE STILL PAYING ME. I'VE CALLED FORT HOOD AND THEY JUST BLEW IT OFF CAUSE I GUESS THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THE PAPERWORK. I'VE CALLED THE ARMY AWOL/DESERTER LINE AND NO ONE HAS REPORTED ME. I WANNA GET KICKED OUT SO SHOULD I JUST TURN MYSELF INTO FORT SILL?

JASON WORTHEN on March 9, 2006 2:59 PM

Well, I just(like five minutes ago) got denied by the Army Review Board. All I can say is I was pretty sure I would have, but I am still utterly crushed. When I saw the big envelope it was like I knew inside that is said "Fuck You" but I was still sooooo fucking nervous, like I just ran a 50 yard dash or something. Man, I feel like I'm back in high-school and my girl dumped me. I'm fuckin' heartbroken. They gave me a year to appeal their decision, What the heel am I supposed to do? What do they want me to say? I fucked up, I was a green turd back then, and I just want another shot. I mean why is that so fucking hard? Punk ass George "Dubya" Bush was AWOL for 18 Months ans STILL got an Honorable! I'm hurt, they fucked me again! Every night I've been prayin' for just that one chance to go back, It just sucks cause I got out cause of some bitch that just used me....I fuckin' loved the service and it's so hard to keep a job since cause I find myself looking for the same feeling and everything has just come up flat. I'm going to college now majoring in Criminal Justice and I'm worried that this stupid RE-4 is going to fuck that up for me as well. I need advice, brothers.....please help me, I've been hit. I just lost all sense of life, I feel like I'm falling off the back of a carrier and I'm in the ocean watching it get farther away, I can't scream for help over the loudness of it all and I'm sinking.......into darkness

I got kicked out too. E-4 over 4 years. I got kicked out for the drugs, RE-4/OTH is what the command gave me. I was the one that NOBODY would have suspected, but the pressure that I was given to stay the top E-4 in the command was too much at the time. I would love to go back, but I'm afraid of what I'll be going back to. When I enlisted, I just found ut that we were going to war, so I don't know what to expect if I was to try and succeed. I believe if I went and tried to get back in, I would be successful (I've heard all the possibilities, from going to the recruiter, to talking to the local congressman, the Navy Review Board) but now I don't want to. See...the reason I don't want to anymore is because I finally gotten all that I wanted. I got to keep my G.I. Bill, because in my third year, I reenlisted (illegally) when I wasn't supposed to. I was undesignated and in the program in which I was supposed to have been given a rate from three choices for first termers. I got accepted to go Corpsman, so my CC said I could reenlist. Right before I reenlisted, I made Personnelman Third Class, so I was thinking that I was gonna be a Hospital Corpsman Third Class. That was wrong. The reenlistment desk got heated because I wasn't supposed to reenlist until AFTER I got my new orders and completed Corpsman "A" school and they couldn't do a thing about it. My CED got changed and all was good. Now that I'm out, that illegal reenlistment saved me. Now I'm gonna go back to school and get my degree. :-D Life's good right now.

stillapettyofficer on March 11, 2006 4:29 PM

What amazes me is all the young guys that join up for the abuse.I remember a guy that came back in in his late twenties ,(to us he seemed ancient). He had a silver star and various cheesecake on his chest that made him look like a general. He was an e-3. We asked him why he re-uped, he said " wait till you're out there with kids getting laid off every six months".I've seen them bust guys out after doing a full tour of combat, even though they could have at the beginning of their tour. When they needed them, go ahead soldier , cut point, when tours up and time to rotate home, bust them.All that sweat and sacrifice, but you made it out alive so let's ruin your GI bill etc,pathetic. That was a different war, but it's always the same.
Now as for the effects of an OTH or otherwise, I really wouldn't know. One of the finest people I ever met in my life got an OTH. Don't let the bastards get you down.For you guys still in, most of you are young and and I mean this nicely , naive. Get a lawyer , keep your mouth closed, don't expect any favors or any promises to be kept. They are just out to cover their asses, look good for promotion and screw everyone else. That was always true but it seems worse in todays all volunteer , career oriented military.

I recieved an oth in 1999, but if you read the write up on the situation what I did was the "honorable" thing to do, is there any chance to have the discharge up-graded? Damned if you do, damed if you dont.

The OTH won't matter. Nobody will ask you about it. At the place I've working now they have the service members employment and re-employmnet rights act posted on a bulletin board. I've actully known people who were in managment who said they hate highering former marines cause of all the honorable who just don't care. I go in there everyday and do my best and everyone likes me so my discharge is nothing to me. I actully got less questions asked about it than I did past employment. So basically don't let it get you down and instead use diffrent parts of your training to make you a better person today and make the best of yourself just cause they said you were worthless doesn't make it true. Keep having faith and make the most of life.

Hey guys. Great posts. My husband is a Marine in deserter status and not in the United States. I know of Navy guys who live in the same country as us who have been given a "discharge in absentia" meaning by mail and/or phone. He has served in the recent "war on terror" and I need to know how to go about getting an OTH in absentia for him. Anyone familiar with this at all. Possibility of a special or Gen CM well, it isnt an option for us. After reading all your posts it seems to me like he would have been better popping on a piss test in order to get the OTH rather than deserting without impending charges. Any ideas guys?

I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS HEARD A STORY LIKE THIS AND WHAT I SHOULD DO? ANYWAYS, I GRADUATED FROM AIT (ARMY) IN NOVEMBER 2005 AND WAS SUPPOSE TO REPORT IN ON DECEMBER 16, 2005. WELL AS YOU CAN SEE I DIDN'T AND I'M STILL AWOL. THE KICK IS THAT NO ONE HAS REPORTED IT AND THERE STILL PAYING ME. I'VE CALLED FORT HOOD AND THEY JUST BLEW IT OFF CAUSE I GUESS THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THE PAPERWORK. I'VE CALLED THE ARMY AWOL/DESERTER LINE AND NO ONE HAS REPORTED ME. I WANNA GET KICKED OUT SO SHOULD I JUST TURN MYSELF INTO FORT SILL?

I got an OTH from the Navy in 1982 for a weed piss test. BEST THING THAT EVERY HAPPENED!! I had three more years on a 6 six enlistment. I went in for the advanced electronics training. Got out went home to the Silicon Valley (live in Washington State now). I've worked for top tier computer and software companies. Worked on components for the space station. I make 6 figures. I used my VA loan to get into the Bay Area housing market many years ago. Never has it been an issue. Don't waste your time trying to get an upgrade. The only thing you can't do is join the American Legion or VFW. Go get a real job and let the service kiss your ass.

As crazy as it is, since I received my OTH in 1986, I have rarely had a day go by where I do not think about the Service and my immature behavior. I'm disappointed in myself for that time, but I do not let it distract me from accomplishing what I want to do in life. I use it as a catalyst to not screw up again. Each day as we have war coverage, it is difficult not to think about the way things might have been. Although I might not have met my wife, or have my 4 kids, or have this great life. I have more success than I ever thought I would and I believe much of this occured because of my failures in terms of discipline. I work in an industry where Federal background checks are the norm, this never came up. Not sure it would make a difference at this point. I have proven my worth a hundred times over and could go anywhere to do what I do. The main place it comes up is in my private life. When I look at my kids, when I think about explaining why I do not get a flag on my coffin. When talking with new friends about my past. You always have to work around things...dates...times...places. I've actually stopped doing that quite a while ago. Now I just say, they hated me and I hated them and then they stop talking about it. I generally work under the guise of less is more, in regard to this. Anyone that knows me well, and many that don't, know that I was sent home early. Anyone that says it does not bother them is not being compeltely honest with themselves. Failing at anything sucks. It is rarey the service's fault when us young dumbasses come in and make mistakes. I do think it could be handled better and I also think there is time when you need to let this go. It's not always easy. I mean at this point, I have coached children year round for 15 years in my free time in Hockey, Baseball, Fast Pitch, Soccer etc. I have spent my life trying to make myself feel better for that failure by over achieiving in areas of community service and with my career. I am always waiting for that one day when someone walks in with this shocking news that I received an OTH and trys to ruin my life. Yes me....the one that everyone counts on, the leader, the father, the coach...and it all gets taken away in one fell swoop. Why do we think like this? I know I am not alone. All Commanding officers are different and it looks like some of you may not have deserved what was coming. I can't really say that. I was very good at my job, but drank way too much and hated rules. That just does not work in the Miliatary. I truly beleive I was sent to the wrong place at the wrong time, and where I was at with my life at that time, it just didn't work. An OTH is just like geting fired. I deserved it. I showed up late, I drank too much, I disappeared once for 3 days. It is best just to admit it, learn from it, grow from it, and work with it. The only problem is, it is the only job you get fired from that follows you around for life, if only in your mind. It's only been 23 years, I am sure I'll get over it soon. 60% of my division was sent home I am told. We were in Dry Dock needlegunning and stripping tile for over 2 years, everyday. Not good. Not what i was promised by the recruiter, not what I planned on. Now the plan looks clear. Goals are met. Dreams are set.

The other V-Man on March 24, 2006 6:15 PM

So I got my Oth a few months ago and I got a job with great ease. Everyone at my job likes me for my disciplined hard work ethics. And nobody really cares that I was discharged early.. They ask why and I just say it's personal.. I actully might be going into company security soon just because they found out I have military in my back ground.. It's like a dollar more an hour just to stand around.. Not to bad. So outta everything I've solved all of my problems like feeling like a cheese dick and everything..Life is great now.. Now I only have one more of my dumb mistakes to fix from last year and I don't know who to contact so if anyone knows where I have to turn please let me know. See I went ua around tax time of last year and didn't get my W-2 from the military so I failed to do my taxes last year cause I was ua and didn't wanna give myself up by contacting the Marines for that information.. I wanna do them this year with this years taxes.. So does anyone know who I need to contact to get that old W-2 from the Marine Corp? And thanks aaron for this great site It really gave me hope while I was UA.

great website. Excellent stories. I was one of the first in the volunteer army, at 17 yrs old got out with an honorable, now at 48 I know it was the wrong army. I am now a straight up communist and we must all work to defeat the war pigs like Bush etc.

kimchinam58 on March 29, 2006 2:56 PM

I was recently discharged from the Air Force. Pretty much, my first week or boot camp, I was told if I was recycled I would loose my Air Traffic Control job and be put into Open General and most likely would get Security Forces and go to Iraq. Looking back they were probably just saying that to scare us, but they said it the second week of boot camp and I wigged out and tried to get out. When the psych told me I was perfectly sane and I was going back to training I told them about some thing I "forgot" to tell my recruiter.

I got an Uncharacterized Entry Level Separation but if you look at the code that goes along with it, it would say that I had fraudulent enlistment.

I was just wondering if this would disqualify me from all future government jobs?

well damn, I think i'll be getting a oth discharge- for thc in my uranalysis. I already have a couple of jobs. however I want to know the list of consequences that will be attached with OTH credit,loans,etc or little cons. I'm nat'l guard. my C.O. wants me to rehabilitate for my 1st offense. however, I know I'll smoke again and my chances of getting caught are high in the next 4 yrs. and if I get caught a 2nd X" I'll be kickd out and it'll be an even worst discharge. It's fuked up cause I don't smoke cigs, or chew tab.cause of cancer But I like to recreationally smoke mary. What's funniest is that I wouldn't mind going to war in the most dangerous possition I could be in and give it my all but damb-it if I can't smoke after putting up with the stress when I'm in my safe zone fuck it. if you 18 in bdu's you should be able to drink, If you infantry you shouldn't get dropped.
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blaquerogue on April 2, 2006 9:30 PM

well damn, I think i'll be getting a oth discharge- for thc in my uranalysis. I already have a couple of jobs. however I want to know the list of consequences that will be attached with OTH credit,loans,etc or little cons. I'm nat'l guard. my C.O. wants me to rehabilitate for my 1st offense. however, I know I'll smoke again and my chances of getting caught are high in the next 4 yrs. and if I get caught a 2nd X" I'll be kickd out and it'll be an even worst discharge. It's fuked up cause I don't smoke cigs, or chew tab.cause of cancer But I like to recreationally smoke mary. What's funniest is that I wouldn't mind going to war in the most dangerous possition I could be in and give it my all but damb-it if I can't smoke after putting up with the stress when I'm in my safe zone fuck it. if you 18 in bdu's you should be able to drink, If you infantry you shouldn't get dropped.
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blaquerogue on April 2, 2006 9:30 PM

Christine, Why would you join the military if being assigned to Iraq would wig you out? Maybe I misunderstand.

I received an OTH in 1989 right before the ussr was defeated, in my experience don't let it stop you from doing anything, the only people that have had problems are FBI or maybe the CIA. recently I have had the army national guard want me back and they said they could get me a waiver. if you are young I wouldn't worry about it, just tell everybody you got an honorable, 99% of employers won't ask or even check. believe me if you wanted to be a cop or a judge, you would not have gotten the OTH to begin with. You will have a good life, move on and be proud of the hard work and time you put in.

ok i went ua for 8 days and came back on my own...im am trying to get out of the navy and i need help fast....today is wednesday and i go to drb on monday....if i leave again and come back to fail the drug test will it be much worse since i had already left once...would it make it look like i am trying to hard tog et out????please need help soon

I recently "was awarded" an OTH for Army Reserves. My unit was 85 miles in one direction. I did not always make it there because of the distance. I got disciplined one time because I couldn't make it during a fuckin blizzard. All we would do is do the same damn classes back and forth and never train in the normal duties of a military police officer. I was wondering if anyone has info or could help me out in what happens to me after I get an OTH. Many people tell me that my life will be ruined. I was just wondering what does actually happen.

I am facing anArticle 32 (which could 99% lead to court martial) hearing and i just wanted to know
if
I accepted a Chapter 10(OTH) does it mess up my G.I. Bill Benefits?I have 6 years of service.I completed my intial enlistment(4 years)and reenlisted for U.A.V. training which I had been a E-4 and got in a little trouble while iniatialy bing investigated by punk ass bitch ass C.I.D. which totally destroyed my image as a soldier. And my bitch ass chain of command wants to send me to the bremstone, any advice. I could care less about OTH all I want is my G.I. Bill. Help!!!!

Some time ago, I was kicked out of the Army, given a general discharge under honorable conditions and given the finger when it came time to see if I could collect my veteran's benefits. After about 6 months of fast food jobs I decided I wanted to enlist in the Navy (since the faggot ass Army totally screwed me.) I saw the recruiter and he told me that a waiver for active duty would be too much time and trouble, but if I was really serious about joining I could be Navy reserve within two month's time. Stupidly, I told him that if I couldn't do the damn thing all the way,then forget the whole deal.
Well, some time passed and I found that my current job wasn't making enough money to pay the bills, so I started the process to change my enlistment code and basically begged to be active Army so I could feed my family. But the joke is that I don't even want to deal with the Army's bullshit again. My question is this: Even though I wrote my congressman, submitted my paperwork requesting upgrade and reinstallment to active duty, could I still go to the Navy recruiter if the Army is taking too long to answer? Or should I wait (even though I can't afford to) until the Army replies? My whole line of thinking is that a change of branch is like having a fresh start with your career. Help me out if you can. Thanks.

Hi Sam
I would say the general flaws of humanity have been constant over centuries. To assume that they would be different in different branches of the military would be at best naive.

Move on with your life.

Do something with purpose.

aaron wall on April 9, 2006 3:25 AM

basically to sum all this up i get fucked up while i was as parris island get the other then honarable discahrge is it even possialbe to rejoin -- just curious

Hello, my story is similar to Sams'. I was chaptered out of active duty army in '93 for failing a PT run. It was 1 yr,10 months,15 days into enlistment, and was given a General(UHC) discharge. RE code is 3a. Now, I had tried to re-enlist in both AF national guard and Reserves and was told I couldn't. I submitted a dd293 to the Army Review Board 7 months ago and haven't recieved a reply yet, other than acknowledgement of reciept. I have no military or civilian record. Has anyone successfully upgraded their discharge? Is Army NG or Reserves an option? Thanks for any help!

Sam,
I feel everything you're saying because it happened to me a while back. The Army has a very nasty habit of using you as a human shield during their missions in Iraq, but when it's time to pay you for serving your country they want to find a way to screw you out of your benefits. (Fucking bastards!) And even though people mean well by saying to just move on and get a real job, I think they miss the point that the reason why some ex-military want to go back in is because they don't have any other options. Try finding a good paying job in places like Killeen, TX or Fayetteville, NC, with no civilian job skills, no transportation, no education and no one helping to support your family. See how far you get. But the people that offer their advice are probably not the ones that have to say "Paper or Plastic...", are they? I find that they are the ones that have good jobs in their cities that can easily pay for both their car notes and their college classes. Or they make a pretty good living working for themselves.
People use to tell me to go to school--very cute, considering that most people either don't have the money or they're so far in debt that it's damn near impossible. Others would say that there are a lot of jobs out there, but I'm just not looking hard enough or I'm being too proud to take them. (yeah, that always gets a big laugh!)Yeah, my life's dream is to work for Jack in the Box or McDonald's for ten years in order to save money for college! Try supporting a family of five on a McDonald's cashier's pay and see if you have any money left over for college? But when you do your paperwork and try to explain to the review board that the military is the only way that your whole family can eat and have a roof over their heads--they act as though they could care less! They look at you like, "Well, you should have thought about your family starving before you were late for formation all those times--now deal with it!"
Sam, I want you to think about that when you're writing your I-screwed-up-please-take-me-back letter to these assholes. Dont' be so naive as to think that by submitting tons of paperwork and writing to some republican asshole that you'll be back in uniform in a month--because you won't. These types of things take forever--and 98.9% of the time they still won't take you back depending on what you did. But I wouldn't be so quick to just give up either. If you've got kids or a sick mother or something that needs that Tricare and extra money to pay for living expenses, I say fight like hell in order to get back in. Don't ask for only the benefits because they'll just shoot you the finger. Instead, write a series of letters acting like the military is the greatest thing next to sliced bread and lay it on thick about being heartbroken that you were discharged and could no longer serve your country. And blah, blah, blah.
Write letters to everyone in congress if you have to. I'm pretty sure someone will be very interested in knowing a unit/company/whatever fucked you in such a way that you could never come back in order to take care of yourself and your family (assuming that's your case.)But don't give up, man! If you're willing to go through all the military's bullshit again, then eventually someone will see that you've got balls and cut you a break. But don't expect it any time, soon.
Good Luck!

Hi, my name is Nick Pallas. I am currently 3 years into a 6-year contract in the Marine Corps Reserve. I am currently seeking to notify my 1st Sgt or CO that I request to be discharged as a Conscientious Objector. Anybody on this board who knows information about the plan of action, please email me to talk this over. My email is: nmpallas@nickypallas.com
I have a speech already prepared, and am actually readying myself to present my situation within the next couple of weeks. I have been deliberating this idea for over a whole year now, and am at the point where I strongly believe this is the path I must take. I do not believe in many of the things I did when I was young and first joined the military. I can not continue to be in the military, it is just a very strong moral conflict to me. I need to know information about how hard it is to acquire such a discharge, or if the military is obligated to honor my request, and what type of discharge and/or consquences I may face.
If anyone is interested in reading a rough draft of the speech I've been preparing, please email me to talk about it. I am copywrighting it because I can not risk for somebody else to use my carefully written work and risk sabotaging my own case. This is a very serious decision I am getting ready to make, and I am open to any suggestions, counseling, advice, testimonials, etc. Please do get in touch with me if you are interested in helping me out. I am willing to talk on the phone as well, if you email me, I will give you my number, or vice versa, and we can go over my plan. Thank you to anyone on this board who is willing to share their time and help.

Nicholas Pallas on April 12, 2006 12:45 AM

my son was given aweed piss test,last month and it came back positive. his sergant was trying to get him to sign some papers for him giving up all his right.he refuse to sign the papers. when my son got out of high school in aug he went to boot camp he was 17.while in bootcamp he turn 18 in oct.in dec 12 he graduated fron boot camp. came home in dec,15. after getting home from basic training he had to report to his unit. so the told him that they would leaving for iraqi the first week in feb2004.when he join the army natiionalguard they (the recriuter)told us that my son would not have to go over there by him being the only child . when they got ready to go his sergant told us that he didnt have a choice.so they left in feb04.and can bach in jan05.when he got back you could tell something was difference in him.he went threw the demobilization. but he said that it wasnt for single peoples.but only for marriage couple with family.so i feel after my son have been to iraqi and put his life on the line for our country they shouldnt had did this to him like that.his gi bill and may becut off plus his va benefit.they game him a number to call to talk to someone about this, but they have gave him the run around.i feel like they have try to get him some help.he have been there for 3 yrs.i know that it is hi fault.but they should have some kind of resources out here for they.because when the went to iraqi this really mess them up bad.s0me drinks to try to escape what they have been threw.and some smoke pot in order to find the release. from the stress that they are under.i don't approve drinking nor drugs. but this what our young mens and womens are doing to help them get a little release.in other word george bush has messed up our sons and daughters.then any little thing they do they kicks them out with a dishonorable or other than discharge. so where is the help for our childrens.

I was in the Navy for just 2 weeks shy of 2 years. I popped on a pissed test for pot and got a OTH. So I've read that I can upgrade my discharge to a general?? Please let me know if you can what my options are and what I can do.

CAN ANY ONE ANSWER THIS!!!!!!!
I popped on a test for THC, I received reduction in rank and half pay for 2 months. This took place Feb of 05. The paper work was lost buy my command. This means there is nothing in my SRB, and the bigwigs never made a decision to boot me; but is there any were else it could be found. I am still in the service. I am now going through a background check for DOC. I want to avoid any suspicion in the background check if it is in my favor.

to Dan Moore:

Your command wanted you to stay in. Trust me...it's VERY hard for a command to "lose" your paperwork. Trust me, I was a PN. Now what you gotta do is...just chill. In the end, you can fight it in court if you want if you have problems. You must've been either a damn good sailor or like you said, something really went wrong. hang in there and ride it until the wheels fall off.

to Melissa:
sorry to say, but you might be in for a long ride if you wanna get the General discharge. You been in too short. You don't have enough time in the books for the review board to even look at you. My suggestion is to just deny the service like you never went in and get a job elsewhere. If your young, you may be able to get by sayin' you was with mom and dad. a little older? just say you were searching for your inner-self. Hang in there and don't give up or look down!

to ladyq28170:
Read what I had to say for Melissa and you'll get the idea. I feel you on that one though, it is a shame for our children to get sent on wars with no problem, but got lied to by the recruiter. How many you think of us who reads this said the same damn thing...bein' lied to I mean. He's too short of time in service to really get anything.

to Nick Pallas:
I used to be a Personnel Specialist 3rd Class, so I'll give it to you from what's good from the Navy side. The UCMJ articles you will be charged with (yeah you gotta get charged something...ain't gonna walk off freely) applied to me and it's current for you. I say go for it, man. Do your thing and take the punishment. If you look at this MILPERSMAN 1910-100 you'll notice that Conscientious Objector is not listed.....I dunno too much about it but they can hit you with what's in MILPERSMAN 1910-142, which is pretty harsh if you have to go with the Admin Board. If you get a good lawyer, you might turn it and get a General and be cool.

Peace!

heay" systemdown!

what stigmas come with a OTHonorable? Does it come on your credit? or tax returns? or as long as I stay away from the GOV. jobs I shouldn't worry? see I'm nat'l grd, got a good job and all. I'm just lookn for any bumps that could be coming. any little bump. I had no ambition to be a politiian or a police officer. thanxz

Hi,
A friend of mines recently joined the marines under a 4-year enlistment of active duty. He wants to get out but doesnt know how. What's the best way to get of the marines? He gets back from boot camp on april 28th. Should he just pop positive on a drug test and get an OTH? this friend of mines smokes alot of marijuana, the only reason he passed the piss test is because his recruiter gave him some drink to get clean. Should he get an OTH and never mention the discharge or any military experience? He has only been in the marines for 3 months.
If anyone got any help for my friend, plz email me at nwk9lives@yahoo.com

david riverra on April 21, 2006 10:14 PM

I popped on my piss test for THC. My board hearing is tommorrow morning.
My question is this: I there a way to stay in after being popped. My JAG officer is saying the "best, worst case" scenario is that I get out with an honorable discharge based on my record, but 99% I will be seperated.
Is there any success stories of someone beating this, and if so, can you point me in the direction so I can print up some stuff. My JAG says if I can find IN PRINT a case where a sailor got retained, then I have a much better chance arguing to stay in.
Thanks.

to Richard:

Good for you fightin' it wit' the man...commend you alot. Bad news is...he's right on the percentages part. Oh and F.Y.I....you're not gonna find a case in print on the internet as far as that one goes (if that was the case, it'll be tons of people pouring in to the website and whatever). I know of some people staying in, but that shit was handled at command-level. You know where I'm goin' wit' this, right? Your command can play a HUGE part in keeping you in. Since you're a "a-j-squared-away" serviceman, it shouldn't be a problem getting some statements. Just winning that shit over can be, since it is a drug offense. Good luck on it though and tell the board if you made it.

to David Riverra:

as long as he's not within 180 days, he can get out as an entry level separation. don't advise smokin' weed though, get more creative. Tryin' to commit suicide is a hell of a lot better. Tell the command that he got a pocket full of pills or somethin' an' he's gonna eat it...i dunno. Bottom line is, make something up.

to blaque':
no stigmata or anything in the civilian sector. Not shown on any background checks. You're not trying to be a cop or nothin'? you're good. nothing on the taxes either. IRS don't care about what you got out for. Your credit is safe too.

Peace!

Hi,
What category does an entry level seperation fall into? Is it like a General discharge or an other than honoroable discharge or an honorable discharge?

David Riverra on April 23, 2006 11:57 PM

I don't want to say what company I work for or who I am just incase this message is seen by anyone who can affect my job status:

I was in the Navy for 7 years as an Aviation Electronics Technician. I served twice in the Persian Gulf on the last cruises of the USS Constellation and USS Kennedy. I was there for the Shock and Awe part and for the attack on Fallujah. I went days without food on the Kennedy because the food wasn't kosher and I've never ate beef or pork. I got robbed out of a NAM, even the guy who got the NAM said I should have got one, because I was the one that fixed 96% of the electronics during that cruise. But I didn't see myself doing anything else. I still loved being in the Navy.

One night I got a DUI but I wasn't driving the car. I was in the vehicle while I was intoxicated with no intentions for driving. The command didn't send me to mast because I wasn't driving but it was put into my records as an alcohol related incident and I thought I had an alcohol problem so I went to treatment. Two years later (after the last Kennedy cruise), I was the night shift supervisor and to make a long story short I was totally stressed out. A month later, I was drinking at a friend's house and I called a cab to get home, but in Whidbey Island the cabs take 2 hours or more to arrive. I didn't drink while waiting and then I thought I was ok to drive home. I got a DUI at 4AM and blew a .086!

My command sent me to mast and gave me 14/14, reduction to AT3 and an OTH. The OIC (officer in charge) didn't even give me a chance to say one word. The OIC had the paperwork already filled out. I was one of the most honorable guys in the division, I was well respected by everyone, even civilians in the town. The OIC didn't even know who I was but said that I was a bad person and a disgrace, and didn't deserve to keep my rank and to think of myself as a civilian from that moment on. I'll agree that I didn't deserve to keep my rank because I should have known better than to drive but I didn't feel that I deserve an OTH, maybe general under honorable. Whidbey Island is one of the most depressing places to be if you're a single guy and there is literally nothing to do at night other than drink because the town closes down early!

After the smoke cleared and I was out, I partied for a while. I smoked weed for once in my life and grew a beard for a while. I was so worried that I wouldn't be able to get a good job with that OTH. I didn't even qualify for unemployment because of the OTH. Four months later, I was so close to being broke and being a bum. Then out of no where, monster.com lit my darkess hour. My resume was found and I accepted a job as an electronics/engineering tech. I have no college but now I'm making $27.50/hour plus overtime! They treat me with so much respect and they give me all of the tools I need to get the job done. They gave me my own pager, laptop, docking station, cubicle and more! They never even asked for the type of discharge that I received and they didn't do a background check. I was prepared to tell them that I got an honorable discharge anyway, knowing that they wouldn't be able to find out. It's like Aaron said, I got an Other Than Honorable discharge from an OTH command, and I don't believe that I'm anything other than honorable. Now I'm so happy making $4,000+ per month and working less than I did in the Navy. I'm on a year contract but after it's up, the company wants me to stay with them. I planned on only using this job to establish myself in the civilian world so that it would lower the chances of the OTH preventing me from getting future jobs, although I might stay with the company anyway. I would like to thank Aaron Wall for this page because I found it while I was on restriction and it helped me and gave me hope, although I don't agree with every person's comments.

Some Chiefs and Officers act like getting an OTH is the end of the world, but the truth is, that to them it would be the end of the world because they've been in the Navy for so long and that's all they know, they're institutionalized. The reason why most of them are still in is because they don't know how to make it in the outside world. I remember putting a damn good technician up for Technician Of The Month but the paper work didn't get anywhere. The only thing they tend to see are the negatives. It seems like the only thing the higher ups like award sailors with are punishments. So where's the motivation? I was going to put another technician in for Tech of the Month but I knew that she wouldn't get it because no one above me cared to get the paperwork through. Master Chiefs are supposed to look out for the enlisted, be a mentor, caring and understanding. Also, if the time comes be firm and strict, but not be like that all of the time! My current boss congradulates me in public for my work and treats me well. I can go to lunch when I want and my work hours are up to me within a specific range. If I'm late for some reason, no big deal, if I want to go home early, that's cool too. Just as long as I make up the time.

So if you're in the "same boat" that I was on, keep paddling. It's not the end of the world. Just as long as you apply yourself and don't take no for an answer. If you go up for an interview for a really technical job and you want to mention the military, just pretend that everything went ok. Hopefully they wouldn't ask for a copy of your DD-214 (I wasn't asked for it). I compiled my resume off of my SMART transcript, experiences and EVAL bullets. I also had award certificates with me just incase (example: EAWS, Good Conduct Medal, etc.). If they ask for a DD-214, and you show them, you might still have a chance. They'll probably ask you what went wrong. I was prepared to say that I got an Admin Sep for refusing to take an antrax shot (be creative). If you give them any references from the military, make sure it's someone you can trust to not mention the OTH.

Getting discharged from the Navy is the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm healthy and eating well now. Plus I get enough sleep at night. I don't have to worry about people yelling at me and my hard work is noticed. All of the people who I served with still loves me and they think that I'm so lucky. I had some good times in the Navy, overseas at many ports and in Florida, California and Virginia. If it wasn't for the Navy I would not have met so many great people who I still care about, even some who are Chiefs and Officers. I might not have turned into the guy I am now if it wasn't for the Navy and I'm happy with myself. I don't want to say FTN, because the skills, discipline and experience that I have is from the Navy, but I can surely say Fuck AIMD Whidbey Island!

Duran Duran fan on April 26, 2006 12:15 AM

I am presently trying to be chaptered about because my recruiter failed to do a thorough secuirty clearance (my whole packet was falsified) and my command could care less. My contract specifically states that if I lose my MOS due to me losing my clearance, I can request sepration. Legal said I have a case, AG said I have a case, IG says I have a case BUT it's up to my command to make the decision. My 1SGT won't, so now I'm trying to be a shit bag by not going to formations, not shaving etc. When I first asked top about my chapter he said, "You don't have a reason to get out. I could see if you were a bad soldier, but you're not". So, basically I told him that I was getting penalized for going through the correct proceedures. I brought it to S-2's attention that my clearance was bogus and on top of it, I now have a warrant for my arrest back home for a suspended lic. This is my 5th suspension. Of which, the recruiter didn't put ANY of them on my paperwork. I now just want out because the Army doesn't live up to their own values. INTEGRITY-Do what's right both legally and morally. I have a contract and a chapter that would specifically allow me to be seperated and they are just giving me the run around. At this point, I'd be happier than shit to get an OTH. By the way, I served in the NAVY previously and got an Honorable. The Army is bullshit!

Can anyone give me a clue as far as getting back in? Three months ago I called a recruiting office and a recruiter came to my house to look at my discharge papers. He said that I was totally phased out (whatever the hell that means) and that I would have to repeat basic training and AIT all over again. (Which, to me, seemed an okay deal, being as though my former MOS was bullshit.) He said he'd have to have to plug in some info. regarding my release in his laptop and he'd get back to me. (Which, I'm learning is recruiter code for "I don't have time for you if you're not a RE:1, so screw you.") Well, he pushed me off on another recruiter and this recruiter was hopeful until he checked my info. then all of a sudden it was "I'm going to give you the number of this guy who is closer to your house, etc." ( I think you guys see the pattern here.) Well here's the meat of the story: The last recruiter I spoke to said that the basic/AIT repeat was bullshit. That I'd have to go into the reserves for about six months or so, then apply for active duty and I'd be stuck with the same MOS I had before. Now, my question is this: Who's right? Are they trying to further punish me by sticking me in the reserves (even though I told them that the reason why I want active is because I need that full time money and benefits to pay the bills around the house.)? I don't understand the Army's logic. There's a war going on, people are dying and everyone from the President to those asshole recruiters are begging people to enlist, but the minute a prior servicemen with an RE:3 says, "I'll do it again." The Army tells that individual to go fuck themselves. All those congress assholes and that fuckhead Bush should be banging down any prior services' door in order to fill in those slots--no matter what their RE code. I'm meeting with a guy next week and I bet everything I have that he's going to say "I'll help you get that waiver", but once his quota is filled he'll say, "Fuck that guy! He shouldn't have been enough of a dirtbag to get thrown out. Why the hell should I convince the Army to take him back in?!!) Help me understand their logic, please. And answer the question of which recruiter is right so I can save myself the trouble of digging through my closet to show my DD214. Thanks.

I join the Corps back in '97. I was a good Marine all and all but in '01 I made a big mistake I sold 2 pills of MDMA to a undercover CID agent. A few months later I was charge and pled guilty received 90 days in the Brig with a BCD "ain't that a BITCH" and that I would be put of Appellate Leave which is waiting on my discharge at home. Sound ok I guess. Well one year gones by No Discharge. Two years goes by No Discharge. Three years goes by No Discharge. Fours years goes by No Discharge. So I took it on myself call my command of course they dont know what to do. So I called the legal office on base they said i was in some Appealent Leave Command so I called them asking them wheres my Discharge. They dont know either go figure. Final I contacted a Appellant Defense JAG lawyer. So she did some looking. And where she found my paper work at my old command sitting in a box "holyshit". And right now its been going on 5 years on Appellant Leave which I'm trying to appeal this BCD do to there incompenience of there post delay of my paper work to Washington D.C. in a timely fashion.

It's really funny reading some of these posts. People that didn't feel the service was doing "right" by them. It sure must be nice to see the world in that way. I guess they should bring back the draft and drop the pay to cigarette money a month like the old days.
It's not just the miltary that's screwed up. it the whole human race. Didn't anyone clue you guys in? Justice, fairness, since when ? show me a case where it ever happened, anywhere.It's gonna get worse people, consider your service time as popping your cherry. Now that you know how things work in the real world you have an advantage.

Hi Joe
those who try to compare the navy to the real world saying that they are one and the same are full of shit.

navy = I wanted to die
no navy = I don't want to die

navy = dirt poor, with navy financially scamming me like clockwork
no navy = 3 years after getting out I have no debt, make thousands a month in passive income streams, and now I charge people $500 an hour to work for them. I could even pay off my share of the government debt right now, if it wasn't a big fucking scam with the purpose of killing social programs in the first place.

navy = no control over any aspect of my life. no sunlight for months at a time, and people teaching me I will never amount to anything more than what their system allows me to.
no navy = work whenever I want to. get positive supportive customer feedback daily.

Some people may need the structure granted by the military, but for some that same structure is too consuming, and people like me can only succeed when let free to find success, instead of being stuck in such a damaging structure.

You are right that the navy teaches alot about piss poor leadership. If I think something would piss me off as a worker and then I remember the Navy fucking me over with it then I won't screw others that way.

I received an OTH discharge from the Army at Fort Gordon, GA on 12/27/05 - I requested it to avoid a court-martial for reckless driving, drunk on duty, and flight from apprehension. The charges were pretty much trumped up and my medical records showed I was being seen for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from Iraq, but none of that mattered to my company commander, CPT David Hansen, who just wanted to screw me over.

Both my military lawyer and the civilian lawyer my parents hired told me they thought they could get all charges dropped if I agreed to inpatient alcohol treatment, which I had been asking for anyway. It was approved by the JAG prosecutors but then my battalion commander (LCOL Garrett Howard)wouldn't - he and my company commander were out for blood.

So they told me I couldn't win and I might as well request the OTH rather than take a chance on a BCD. And of course my Command Sergeant Major told me the big lie - that I could get it upgraded in six months because I had honorable combat service.

The worst thing is one of my buddies at Fort Gordon, Dylan Meyer, killed himself last week because this same CPT Hansen was ging to court-martial him for a positive piss test for THC even though he was about to get out at his regular ETS. Hansen was going to keep him there for the court martial and Dylan begged him not to, and Hansen didn't care, so Dylan wrote a thing on myspace.com telling everyone not to be sad and then he hanged himself in his barracks room.

Hopefully this fuckhead Hansen will get what he deserves but you know and I know he won't.

What I'm not clear on is GI Bill benefits. I was within 40 days of completing my initial first term of enlistment (three years). Is that what keeps me from getting my Montgomery GI Bill benefits, or is it the OTH? I reenlisted in Feb 05 after two years so wouldn't that mean I did complete the first enlistment?

I have two service connected injuries - PTSD and a torn meniscus in my knee - but the VA is taking its time approving treatment for those two things even though service related injuries are supposed to be covered regardless of the type of discharge.

I also requested an upgrade and have a Senator looking into it as well.

From what I've seen, the only way this hurts me job-wise is that I'm unlikely to get a Government job - and I've always wanted to be a fireman so that might be out. I'm working at a golf course right now for little money but lots of fun and unlimited golf, and that's cool since my parents (both retired military) support me 100%.

But if anyone knows for sure about the GI Bill, I'd really like to know about it.

Some mornings I wake up and think about how I risked my life every day for 13 months in Iraq, was up for Sgt. when I returned, and then went to Fort Gordon and got fucked over royally. I don't understand how 33 months of service can be honorable and then one little mistake makes it Other Than Honorable!

Aaron I agree with your statemant about the Navy/real world. I noted the flaw as I proof read it but was too lazy to change it.Regarding viewing the world as a fair just place: I guess it all depends on perspective.I too years ago made similar money, I had no education and no perks during childhood etc. However employing yourself is easier than most think. I constantly hear people tell me why they can't do it.Just a few years ago some young person told me how there was no way they could own / run a particular business. I asked them why and later explained briefly what to do and what to ask. A few months later they bought the business with the previous owner carrying most of the loan. What these guys need to understand is that they can achieve anything they set their mind to, if they really want to.The other things, peoples opinions, bad discharges etc. don't mean as much as they might think if they mean anything at all.Regardless, they could have everything going for them in the world and achieve (I hate that word) nothing if they don't believe in themselves.

Hi Porky, unfortunately you can do so many good things in the military and no one will recognize it, but the second you mess up, it's all over, the bad always stands out more. Something similiar happened to me, if you care, you can read my 8 paragraph story which is about 7 "posts" up.

It's the OTH that would keep you from getting your GI Bill. If you were to get out with an Honorable Discharge before the end of your enlistment (examples, medical discharge, saying your suicidal and depressed), and without contributing fully to the GI Bill, you would only get a portion of the GI Bill (if any). It most likely will be a percentage of the GI Bill that is equivalent to the percentage of the time you served. It wouldn't be the full amount, but it will still be a lot. I know this for sure because my friend just got out with an honorable discharge before his end of service and I just talked to him about 3 hours ago, although you're outcome might be different due to the factors of different people and different situations.

You best bet now is to do community service, and stay out of trouble. Then go up to the VA and get the discharge upgraded. You have a good chance already, you've been to Iraq which is really respectable and like you said, you've got the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in your medical record, and you've already taken a step by having a Senator look into it. Stick to your story, but at the same time, pretend that you're sorry for what happened, even if you're not, just pretend. They like it when people admit that they're wrong (even if you're not wrong) because it shows that the person is willing to take responsibility and is making an attempt to better themself. That's mostly what they look for. Just play their game, that's the best way to get a discharge upgraded so that you can get the GI Bill and be a Fireman.

I was lucky to get the GI Bill because I had one enlistment that was honorable and an OTH on the second, and I was totally polite when I went up to debate for the GI Bill. I don't really care about getting the OTH upgraded though because you don't need it to make money, only to get some government jobs like you said. Good luck!

Duran Duran fan on May 2, 2006 12:43 AM

I'm a reservist in the USMC and am fed-up with everything, I've been told if just dont show up you get an oth. IS that true and is it really that bad, and how long would it take to be discharged. thanks

Aaron, I have to say this has been eye-opening. I know you from the SEO world, but never realized you had gone through the same crap I did.

I was in the Marine Corps reserves back in the late '90s. I wasn't the best Marine, but I did my job. Got in trouble once for being late to drill, but that was about it.

I pretty much liked the Corps. What I hated was being a reservist. I hated the weekend warrior BS, hanging around with a bunch of self-righteous A-holes.

One day, I just decided to quit. I stopped going to drill. They called me and fed me all the "God and Country," "You took an oath," and "You'll never get a job" propoganda, and I laughed at them. Then one guy asks me, "You're not coming back, are you?" I said no. A couple hours later they were on my front porch to pick up my gear. I gave it to them, and on their way out they stole a pair of my boots (not issues, my own personal boots).

Fuck 'em, I thought. At least I'm done.

Now 8 years later or so, I'm starting to wonder what my status is. I didn't go on the lam, didn't run away. They had my number, knew where I lived, and didn't contact me again. I've had a few run-ins with the cops since (traffic violations). No arrests, so I'm guessing I don't have any kind of federal warrants out on me.

I've always assumed that I got a OTH discharge, but don't know how to find out. Also, I'm mildly concerned that they never actually processed the discharge and just kept me on the rolls for the past 8 years as UA. Wouldn't surprise me. Is there some way of finding out that won't get me in trouble if they do have me listed as UA or a deserter?

Here's my advice for those seeking it:

OTH means bupkis. I can't stress that enough. I haven't had a job where I've had to fill out an "application" since I left. Like Aaron, I make good money (some might say very good) in the field. I don't regret my decision to leave; in retrospect, the Corps was doing nothing but holding me back with their petty crap.

Leaving the reserves wasn't that hard. The military system is bloated, inefficient, greedy, stupid and corrupt. There are always ways out, no matter what lies they tell you. Work the system. Do 30 days in the brig if you have to. Consider it an investment in your future.

If you're lucky enough to still be in boot camp, congratulations. This is the easiest time to wash out. How easy is it? Just fail your PFTs. Repeatedly. Pretend to be making an effort to work out more and try really hard, but fail anyway. They'll send you to PCP (Physical Conditioning Platoon). Repeat a couple more times. If you haven't been called in by the Captain and asked if you want to wash out, request it. Tell them you just can't take it anymore. Malinger. Be a shit bird. You'll get out. They won't keep trying forever.

I considered deliberately popping hot on the whiz quiz, or pretending to be gay (my roomate at the time had a really funny plan for this), but in the end I realized that all the hard talk about OTHs being the end of the world was just BS. I just left. Haven't really looked back until now.

Thanks Aaron.

Nate (aka Nutkeis) on May 5, 2006 1:54 PM

hey system down,
thanx! That's all I was worried about, you are the most helpful. the army make it sound like your life go fall into the bottomless pit after anything that's not -honorable. however I do truly feel abit bogus breaking away from my combat team. but It frustrates me to see how they do others plus now I see what many warned me about.

yeah the navy will fuck with you. i got discharged march 5, 2006. i got a oth for doin coke but i never popped on a piss test. my legal o told me that if i didnt "admit" to drug abuse i would receive a BCD discharge and be thrown into the brig. me and 3 other people were "persuaded" into saying we did coke by a LT. this same guy said that if we somehow stayed in he was gonna do watever it takes to get us kicked out. so we were just straight assraped with a sandpaper condom. i hate my command. i wanna reenlist but i dont think i will get my discharge changed. i just want to say FUCK HS7

i got busted at nwc china lake in 1990 for smokin the killer green , also sampled other cali goodies but they got me for weed, OTH !!!!!! YES
it has never hurt my money making 1 time as i work in the private sector , the truth is i wish i could get the benefits i deserve, BUT NO , FTN.

The Navy completely fucked me over. They love doing that !!!!

i serve in the marine corp dor 1 year. yes, i was a boot. never had the chance to go to iraq. so anyways, after i finish SOI ( school of infantry) i was going to be station with my unit for the rest of my years i sign. they assign me with 2/7 at 29 palms. the same day i step into that base. the hazing began i couldnt take their shit they wouldnt let me alone. so, i was like fuckin it im leavin this fuckin shit hole. so, i went Ua. i was gone for 7 months the cops got me saw the warrant for my arrest and send me to the county jail, from there they call the marine corp that they got me so they pick me up in 2 days. they send me to the brig. so, i told them the reason why i went Ua. for being haze and i just coudlnt been a man and handle it. so they gave me a OTH. every fuckin day i ask my self "what if" i have marine corp in my head, i cant get them out of my head. the truth i didnt want to leave tha marine corp. i love the discipline and training. but those mother fucker fuck me over by hazing me every fuckin day of the day. and my question is Can I upgrade my Discharge? can i Re-enlist back with the marine corp? i dont know what im gonna do i feel so bad. every where i go i see something about military. everywhere. so please someone help me out and tell me my e mail is youwantfanta@yahoo.com plz help me out

thank you.

I slipped into this site, I know there are alot of Marines and Sailors who get/got into trouble. I recieved and Bad Conduct dicharge for Meth, in 94. I am a career Fire Fighter I have been clean since I was arrested. 2 years ago I Met the Judge Advocate that over seen my case at a marine corps ball and asked for his help/ He put me in contact with some one in Washington DC. I talked with that person on several acations. The bottom line is, If you want your discharged change you have to use you Congress person. The military WILL NOT help at all. My assessment of this situation is the military has taken a hard line against this with out all the the studies and information. Who Ever wrote they "fuck you" is absulutely right. I still have not been able to upgrade. I was told that I would have to fly to DC and go in fornt of the committee. good luck keep your heads up.

Hey Everybody,,now i ain't no savior or anything, but for any of you that need info. on how to upgrade your discharge I have it for you exactly. I just recently got mine upgraded, but I am not going to lie it took me about 3 and a half years, but it was worth it, I am now re enlisting in the Army and should be reporting to my new duty station in a couple weeks.
It all starts with the DD-Form 293 and you can either have the Discharge Review Board do a records review or a personal hearing. I would only suggest a records review first, so if and when they deny your upgrade based upon the desicion in your record. It will look good when you go in front of your respected Discharge Review Board. The Army Discharge Review Board is very fair, escpecially if you take the time to travel to them ( and yes they do have a travel board but they only go to a few selected cities every couple months or so ). Be honest and if you deserve an upgrade they will give you one, but if you don't and you know you don't deserve an upgrade, take my advice and give it up.
As far as senators go, they have no pull in the military, but they would be a good reference if they gave you a good word, so take the senators and congressman out of your mind, they can't give you any upgrade. They are not allowed to tamper with DD- Forms "DD stands for Department of Defense"

Joshua Price
joshua_only1@yahoo.com

Joshua Price on May 25, 2006 1:05 AM

Hello, my chain of command is currently considering Admin. sep'ing me i don't know under what circumstance. anyways, they are doing it becuase i have been caught drinking underage on base one time, and caught once out in town.
Now.. i have friends currently in college who have had 2-3 MIP's out in town and they pay a 150 dollar fine and they are on with there life. i hold a security clearence guarding our nations assets and work countless hours and they expect me not to drink at 20 years old. I'm sorry for serving my country, holding a rifle everyday standing in a tower for 6 hours on 6 off 6 on 6 off staring at a fucking fence line.. who the fuck am i to think i can dirnk a beer?
The man who made this site is a genious, in my mind an OTH does'nt mean shit just as he says, show the civilian world you can be important to them i.e. (community service, getting involved well solve your problems and eventually turn your OTH around. when i go to college and get my degree and apply for a job and they ask me about my discharge and why i got it. i well simply say "well, for a year and a half i stood in a tower for 12 hours a day with a loaded m16A3 service rifle, with strategic weapons directly behind me, and i thought in the one-two days i had off every month i would drink couple beers with my buddys at 20 years old"
I'm not worried about it, if i get OTH'd its going to motivate me to be successful so i can shove it right back in there face. i and everyone else around me have always believed that if you serve your country you should be able to drink a fucking beer.
Anyways quick question.. i had decent grades in high school, does an OTH effect getting into a four year university? thanks

Hey everyone...back in 2000 I was in the MC and I popped on a wiz test, MDMA. For all of you who do not know what that is, short name for xtc. I was taken off a security exercise and brought back to the rear to speak w/the First Sgt. Well, I got back to command and a woman in a biz suit was standing there waiting for me. You guessed it, NCIS. I gave them nothing, of course I fed them a bullshit story. I was pretty much the first person in my command to pop for this drug at the time. My CO was a great guy. He asked me one on one, "Do you still want to be a Marine?" I did, honestly...so he put in a rec for retention to battalion. Battalion followed suite to Marine Forces Atlantic. The Commander of Marine Forces Atlantic at the time was then Lt. Gen Peter Pace. Many of you now know him as the Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff. He and the Judge Advocate denied the letters of retention and booted me. Stating, I had admitted to smoking pot before I joined, so I knew what I was doing. I got what I deserved, however, I loved the Marines. I loved, at the time, two lifestyles that could not co-exist. I met some of the best friends anyone could ever meet and still keep in touch w/them. Keep your heads up and try not to make the same mistakes twice.

What's up People,
Just like the majority of you, I popped on the wizz quiz and was sitting here stressed about it....this site has really helped to ease my mind, (to the creator of this site) THANKS a MILLION. Anyhow, my question is: should I LIE about my discharge and say I got an honorable or is it better to not mention it at all? What do you think?

Mr. Wassupwitit on June 1, 2006 7:13 PM

Wow guys I'm glad I'm not the only one that has gotten screwed by the military. I received an OTH and a RE4 from the Army about one year ago. I'm still haunted by this everyday, and I miss the Army. Well my story goes like this .... After 3 years in the Army I came up for reenlistment on Jan 05. I had the intention of going Special Forces since I was already stationed at Fort Bragg. Then I screwed the pooch, but it wasn't drugs like MOST OF THE OTH'S HERE. Keep in mind that I'm not on here to judge any one. I left an airborne op thinking that the jump was going to be scratched due to bad weather. My unit was notorious for doing this, plenty of times just having us rig up even though they knew before hand it wasn't going to happen. I got an article 15/NJP. I admitted I was wrong, and even though I was a role model soldier, I knew I was going to be punished. I went from e4 to e3, got two weeks extra duty and was barred to reenlist. The punishment didn't fit the crime hence other soldiers were given less severe punishments for dui's, and drugs. The co also stopped my jump status after several backstabbers ratted me out saying I was suicidal even though I wasn't. I ended up being a pay loss and lost 600 dollars for not jumping in 6 months. I was upset with the way I was being treated but strived to pick myself up. I was juggling too many things at the time, classes extra duty and remedial pt. Get this, the Army standard for the pt test is a mere 180 points, the company standard was a 250. I was one point short. Not to mention the fact that I always worked like a dog and was always picking up the slack for everyone else. I ended up missing and being late to some formations. The nco's in my section made my life hell. I was already branded as a scumbag and they saw this as a good reason to haze and harass me. I got assaulted quite a few number of times including one instance in my own apartment and once in front of everyone by my 1st sergeant. When I attempted to speak out against them they put me in the psy ward twice. I was also beaten by four nco's before they put me there the second time . I was on suicide watch even though I clearly wasn't suicidal. I guess they were pissed of they had to babysit me. They wouldn't let me sleep, they kept taking my blanket off me, pulled my feet and keep harassing me. I told them to stop. When they didn't, I just lost it and beat the hell out of someone who I once considered a friend. Before I knew it i was lying in the ER for 12 hours. Four against one, pretty fair huh? I had to jump through hoops to get out of the psy ward. When I got out, the co told me that he was recommending me for a general Court Marshall. I went AWOL after my 1st sergeant got all over my face and kept pushing up against me to get a reaction. If I knew that I was going to get royally screwed, I would have beat the hell out of him right there in front of formation. As i left, I quickly locked myself in my car. He had the audacity to try to open the door and bang on the window. I was scared for my life, hence in a previous incident he even threatened to kill me. I didn't report to work for a week, sought help with the police to no avail. I was apprehended on the 7th day after I went ua. Interestingly though, I was dropped from the rolls for only being gone for seven days. I thought you had to be gone for 30 days for them to consider you AWOL?. Like many of you, I took the chapter in lieu of Court Marshall. If I would have had the money, I would have fought those assholes with a civilian attorney all the way. After everything they did to me and all the regulations they broke in order to destroy my career. I just find it ironic when soldiers, airmen and sailors get accused of breaking the rules when their chain of commands purposely break them just to burn them. What ever happened to practicing what you preach? I'm starting to believe there's no justice in this world. Many of us are still capable of serving and deserve a second chance. Hell, if it wasn't for power hungry douche bags with political aspirations, most of us would not be civilians right now. The system is broken, I hate to carry this burden on me. My own younger brother who is a reservist by the way, told me; "you couldn't even hack it in the Army" and " you are a failure, you know you are". People like him make sick, who serve not for the sake of serving, but only for the benefits. I'm no failure, and neither are any of you. We all wore the uniform, and that's what matters. I never expected the stigma of getting kicked out would also be brought up by family. During my time in the Service, I completed Airborne School, was awarded foreign jump wings, I was an expert marksman, and even got my good conduct award. So by no means, was I a failure. It's people like my brother an a couple other posters on here that are getting killed right now. This just goes to show how shallow some people are. I keep hearing recruitment is down, then why not let those OTH'S who got screwed back in? By the way Aaron great site! I finally found a place to vent with people I can relate to.

RANDOM GUY on June 3, 2006 6:48 AM

Currantly my son is serving in Iraq. His co is threatening to start pulling his rank then boot him out when they get back to the states because he simply cannot pass the running part of the pt test. They say 16 minutes. He does 19 minutes in 122 degree heat AFTER pulling a 12 hour shift. He's not complaining...I am! The thing is, my son is very worried his co will actually do it. He has a wife and baby and depends on the military for support. His plans are to get a government job once his time is up and knows with anything less than honorable, it will be tough. Those boys are over there in harms way...away from family...in the freakin desert...seeing things that will warp there minds for the rest of there lives and then there's this asshole sgt. that has to pass his time by being just that! For WHAT?? Because my son can't run two freakin miles in 16 minutes?? He has a weapon...why run?? Thing is, he's been in for almost 3 years and has only past this test once...IN BASIC!! If he couldn't do it here under NORMAL tempatures, why does this freako think he can do it now. WHY do pt test in 122 heat DURING deployment anyway??? Question is: Can this guy actually boot him out for that..EVEN after a 1 year tour of duty in Iraq??????

DEAR IPISTPOP, I'M SORRY TO SAY THIS BUT YOUR SON IS IN TROUBLE. AS UNETHICAL AS IT IS, THE MILITARY DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE GOOD YOUR SON HAS DONE. THEY ONLY NOTICE WHEN YOU SCREW. YOU SAY HE'S ONLY PASSED ONE PT TEST SINCE BASIC? THEY CAN KICK HIM OUT FOR FAILING THE APFT, HOWEVER ANY REASONABLE UNIT WILL GIVE HIM MORE THEN ONE CHANCE TO PASS IT. IF ALL COMES TO WORSE AND HE CAN'T PASS IT, TELL HIM TO REENLIST IF HE STILL CAN. BY DOING THIS, HE WILL SECURE AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE AND SECURE HIS BENEFITS JUST IN CASE THEY TRY TO KICK HIM OUT AFTERWARDS. HE COULD ALSO TRY TO GET A PROFILE, JUST TELL HIM TO GO SEE A MEDIC SO HE CAN GET ONE. IF I'M CORRECT, YOU CAN'T TAKE THE PT TEST WHILE YOU ARE ON PROFILE. THIS WILL GIVE HIM ENOUGH TIME TO RECOVER, AND HOPEFULLY PASS IT. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE GOING THROUGH AND I WISH YOU GUYS THE BEST OF LUCK.

RANDOM GUY on June 3, 2006 2:25 PM

Hi,
hope everyone is well. Well i joined the marine corps in Nov. the 28th i was on the island for training. i made it about a month and ahalf into training scoring high on my PFT's and IST's, but one recruit fucked up messing my career up in the marine corps. he lost his balance and pushed a rack crushing my hand between other rack. i stayed in training after going to sick call and the navy doc's said i had torn tendents in my hand and boxer factures in my nuckles. after 3 days still on full duty i couldn't do pull up anymore the pain was that bad. i was dropped to MRP and was there for 2 months. while in MRP your mind takes over and i couldn't take anymore all i wanted to do was get back to training and become that marine i dreamed of. So i tried the pussy way out to quit( refuse Training and medical treatment). i was a quitter for about 3 days and i couldn't live that way so i rejoined the platoon. later i found out that i was being medically dropped(sent home) because my hand would take to long to heal or to return to 100%. i signed all my seperation papers not knowing what the codes meant. I was in RSP for about 2 weeks and then noticed my codes were not was i was being discharged for. My Drill Instructor that i mouthed off to then i was trying to quit wrote me down as a MDI: REFUSAL TO TRAIN. it was to late for me to say anything by the time i found out cause i was leaving the next day. on route to go home i told a civil personal that my code was wrong.. he said everything will be corrected and a revised DD-214 would be mailed home. Well 3 months passed and i sent in an order for my DD-214's and got them about a month later. it had the same codes RE-3F (failure to complete Recruit Training) and a bullshit fony packet with why i was being discharged. but it's to late to try to get a lawyer because i signed off on my seperation papers. But its been 6 months and i would like to reenlist back into the marine corps.. i called my recruiter and told him what code i had RE-3F and he said i could probly get back in with that but they wanted to see my packet that is completly made up. And i don't think they'd put me back into the loop with what that packet states... Can anyone help me out or know anything about reenlisting with a MDI-(REFUSAL TO TRAIN) Discharge. Thanks

Recruit Harrison
2nd Bn F Co
Platoon 2010
They Graduated Feb 24.th i wish i could still be in the corp.

My son popped a positive on p test for cocaine. My understanding is the amount would have come back as a negative if tested anywhere other than the military. Not sure what actions are to be taken now. His unit deploys in August. Will they still allow him to deploy and deal with this later or boot him out before they leave? He is not a bad kid and really loves the amry. Can he re enlist later on? I really wish the military would consider age and all when dealing with these cases and of course a pattern of drug abuse. Where in this case there is none. He is one of the few in his unit who really want to deploy. He was even wanting to re enlist over in Iraq. Any advise would be helpful

Looks like my son is getting a General Discharge for misconduct. He is being told by his Sgt that he can re enlist after 6 months. is this true? Or is he just being fed aline of crap?

I'm not sure i'm doing the same thing my 6 months is up in july so i'm gonna try to reenlist also. i don't know tho thats why i asked here.

Hello Stockman and Harrison. This is in response to your message.
Should you recieve an Honorable or General discharge from the Army, you are required to wait for two years from the date of discharge.
Should you really want to go back, then speak to your Army Career Counselor, their less crooked than the recruiters....

Peace

Thanks Yuriko

Does the 2 year wait hold true for the Guards as well? It would be great if he could go there now and join. He would be back in uniform with chance of full time later. Is that a possibility?

Thanks Yuriko
But i was in the marine corps. would that matter?

Yuriko,
when you say GENERAL does that include General other than honorable? I am not clear on which he is getting. But I hear there are waivers for just about everything. You would think with the Military spread so thin right now that they would jump all over someone wanting back in. They sure are not doing a great job of getting anyone else to join.

Hi my boyfriend was in the navy and he is about to go to Court Marshall for selling drugs on base. He has a lawyer and all but I was wondering what is the chances of him not getting a bad conduct discharge?

Amy wollard on June 10, 2006 2:34 PM

I read on a VA site that those getting an OTH are not allowed to keep their military uniforms is this true? I have never heard of such a thing.

Hi Stockman
I think that is an official policy, but like other things in the military is poorly followed. I gave some of my uniforms to my old roommate and I gave some of them to a number of bums in Boston when I got out.

It is hard for them to know exactly how many uniforms you have anyhow. So even if they collect them they will probably try to collect a sea bag worth or use some other half assed measure.

aaron wall on June 11, 2006 3:18 PM

Thanks Aaron. We found out more about his visit with CID. What a railroad job! He had his medical files with pages of drugs he was taking at the time of the test and they wouldnt let him show it. His Sgt was out side and was not allowed to speak to CID. They said he had nothing to contribute! My son hurt his back and was on all sorts of pain medications such as Darcocet and percidons and muscle relaxers not to mention all the injectons he was getting to get him back to work. CID gets him threatens him with 10 years in jail. And told him it was going to get real bad if he kept saying he wasnt guilty. Pressured him in to signing a false confession even coached him threw it! My brother in law works in DC and knows a few good military attornies there and wants them to reveiw it. CID is ajoke! Investigation my ass!

I was a reserve and stopped going to drill back in 2000. I changed addresses and never received any discharge papers. How should I find out about my dishcarge? If I contact them will I be required to serve some kind of time or etc. My IRR was just up last month? This matter has always been in my head. Just want to get it cleared up.

Hello Stockman

In response to your first question about the two year wait applying to the Guard, yes it does. Be sure to speak with an Army Career Counselor that way you are able to be in the MOS you were in before or possibly change your MOS.
To answer your second question about the type of discharge, Honorable or General is all you need.

Hello Harrison,

I do not know if the Marines go by the two year wait rule, sorry!!!!

Hey i was OTH "IN LEU OF COURT MARTIAL" literally last week, i was accused of rape, then formally charged with indicent assault, i only had 6 months in geramny when i was accused, and only 18 months upon discharge, the complaint was bogus she was a bad egg, several ( upon several ) cases of adultry an STD and mental probelms, she tried to kill herself with her room key (!?!?) anyway she laid the trap, and i fell for it, i guess it was me just being NAIVE. anyway the circumstanial evidence my military lawyer gave me a 50 50 shot at goign to jail or being cleared so when the gov. said they would endourse a CHAPT. 10 OTH in leu of court martial i accepted, and now i regret it after reading all your postings, and well im pretty sure im screwed for life here, i would like to rejoin in the NAT. GUARD or hopefully active duty again, i want to try to get into the law enforcement field, i was an MP,
any advice PLEASE HELP!!! anything you guys can offer, feel free to emails thanks everybody!
best of luck to all you getting fucked over by the GOV.

I'm getting ready to turn myself in after being UA for 180 days like the GI rights people told me to do, can anyone tell me what I need to take with me? money, clothes etc. and about how long it will take. I finished boot camp went home for the 10 day leave and didn't go back, was out for 57 days and got caught by the local police they sent me back to my unit I was there 5 day's they said they were putting me back in for infantry training so when they gave me my shoes back I left I have been gone now the 180 days and ready to turn myself in, I know not the smartest thing I've ever done but I'm ready to have it all behind me so if anyone can help. Thanks

Hey Reynolds, regarding about getting back in... It pretty much depends on the type of discharge and the reentry code you received when you got your DD214. Like some of us that got pressured into getting a chapter 10 in lieu of court martial, you got the OTH and the RE4 right? I've heard it's almost impossible to get back in, but according to a few guys here it has happened. Read some of the stories at the top of this page, I'm sure you'll find someone that can help you out. Trust me, I've been contemplating trying to get back in after the railroad job the Army did on me last year. Yet sometimes I feel it really wouldn't be worth it.

Random Guy on June 17, 2006 6:20 AM

Hey Monica, I have a few suggestions for you. I would recommend you take at least two sets of clothes, and some cash for your expenses on your way back home. The military will not pay for transportation. Make sure you try to get an entry level separation. Check your DD214 thoroughly for any mistakes. Honestly, I'm not sure how long it will take. It all depends on several factors; branch of service, your command, and your unique situation. There's always the possibility you might do Brig time, make sure you are ready for it. If you do end up there, don't despair, and don't loose hope. I hope you come out of this ordeal soon, I wish you luck.

Random Guy on June 17, 2006 4:18 PM

My hubbie prolly has you all beat for the bullshit rap. He was in the Navy Reserves and was stationed in NC. He had to stay in a hotel one night because the air in his apt. was broken. That night, he took ambien (which he had a script for) and Vicodin(which he had a script for), forgot to eat,and passed out in the hotel lobby. Was taken to the ER where they claimed to have found an almost unobtainable pain killer in his blood. (I know some drugs when combined can show up as other substances)They then locked him up in the psych ward for about 4 months and refused to believe he was NOT trying to commit suicide. They forced him through rehab and rounded it off with an OTH. I could see if he popped on a piss test for illegal drugs, but prescription drugs that he had scripts for????? He has had problems finding work as well. Currently, he is working cutting up chickens for $230 a week. His next attempt at a career will be as a truck driver. And NO he wont be going into detail about being in the Navy if he can avoid it. From an E-4 in good standing and attempting to make E-5, to hopefully driving a truck- kind of a letdown. But it will be worth it to get away from the Navy, its bullshit, and kissing ass. Our relationship is so much better now that he is out- Less stress, and fewer arguments. No way would I go back in the service if I was you guys who are thinking about it. Are you really so fond of kissing ass? Do you really believe in the false brotherhood of the service? Or more importantly, do you just need someone to tell you when and how to live your life?? Cause that is the impression I get of anyone who can not mentally adapt to leaving the service. God bless

Well, I have read through many of the comments on this page and have decided to add my own case to it to see what you all think. This seems to be a great site by the way.

I have been trying to figure out if I should finish out my contract in the Navy or try and find a way out, so here is my story.

Ok, well I have been in the Navy for about 4 years now, and have two years left on my initial contract. I recently went to Captains Mast and was "awarded" reduction in rank from E-5 to E-4, 45 days restriction/extra duty, and half a months pay times two, and I am being referred to DAPA because the Navy thinks I have an alcohol problem. The reason I went to mast was because I was passed out in the passenger seat of a car (I was drunk and I admitted it) when the driver got a D.U.I. They believe that I have an alcohol problem because of two other incidents that happened in the past. The most recent (the one I just went to C.O.'s mast for was strike three I suppose) I was remotely involved with another friend of mine getting a D.U.I. We were on leave together at a bar with a bunch of friends, and we decided to leave. We left in seperate vehicles that were on the other side of the parking lot from eachother, so I had no way of knowing that he drove, and got a D.U.I. This was my second strike I guess, even though I didn't get in any trouble about it, and was never even formally councelled or even talked to about it. The first strike, if you will, happened while I was deployed. They found an unopened bottle of Scotch in my rack during a health and comfort. I explained to them that I had simply forgotten to turn it in when I got to the ship. It was in a backpack in my rack. I intended to bring it back to the states and give to my brother as a gift. Anyway, I m sure that once I go to my DAPA screening they will tell me that I don't have a problem, I mean I only drink maybe twice a month, if that, and I told my chain of command that, and they didn't care. Honestly, I am really just sick and tired of the Navy, and don't want to be here anymore. I'm tired of all the B.S. that goes on. I initially only joined up for college money (which I still haven't really taken advantage of, and that is my fault, but I have earned a lot of college credits through my training in the Navy). I read my page thirteen when I signed it (for going to C.O.'s Mast) and it said that if I got in trouble again within 6 months, the navy could Administratively Seperate me under Other Than Honorable conditions. I don't really know how that would affect me if I got out though. I have thought about just telling them I am gay (even though I'm not) and try to get out that way, but at my command, they require some sort of proof that you are gay, and I don't think I am willing to go that far. So my dilemna is either get out under an OTH or be miserable for another two years and then get out. I want to go to college to become a Vet. Tech., but as far as I know you lose your G.I. Bill when you get an OTH. Can anyone give me any advice at all. Thanks a bunch guys.

Patrick, you should try to finish your enlistment. If you end up getting an oth you will surely loose everything you've earned so far. I received an oth from my command after being harassed, and attacked by my superiors. They were hellbent on destroying my career and really wanted to stick it to me with a court martial. I took an offer from the command and took an oth in lieu of court martial. Let's just say that I really could need my benefits right know. I understand your frustration, I've been there. It seems as if you still have a choice though, I didn't. Two years go by pretty fast. If you decide to stay in and bear through it, I would suggest you reenlist to lock in your benefits just in case they try to throw you out later. I'm not sure how it works in the Navy, but in the Army you can reenlist a year before the end of your contract. Technically you get an honorable discharge in the spot and lock in your benefits. Heck, I've heard stories of guys telling their command to f-off afterwards. Well, I hope you make the right decision and I hope everything turns out well for you. I read your post and just wanted to help since not too many people have been posting here recently.

HEY ALL U GUYS DON'T STRESS THE SMALL STUFF!!!
I WAS PROMISED SO MUCH CRAP BY MY RECRUITER THAT NEVER HAPPENED!! WAS PUT IN A HOLD OVER STATUS FOR A YEAR IN SAN ANTONIO SO WE CAN CLEAN UP ALL THERE CRAP MY FIRST MARRIAGE WAS DESTROYED WHILE THE DRILL SAID THAT KOREA WOULD MAKE MY MARRIAGE STRONGER AND MOST EVERYONE IN KOREA WAS MARRIED WEIRD!? CANT BRING YOUR FAMILY THERE BY THE WAY!! WITHOUT AN OFFICER GIVEN UP THERE FAMILYS SPOT TO A GRUNT WHICH AINT GONNA HAPPEN! BEFORE LEAVING FOR KOREA A GRADUATING CLASS TORE UP ALL OUR CRAP AND STOLE OUR BOOTS! SO WE THOUGHT SHIT LETS POP ALL THE LOCKS ON EVERYONES LOCKERS AND SWITCH THEM AROUND ON A BAY WITH 75 SOLDIERS!! THAT'LL BE A HOOT!! RIGHT!!? NOT CHARGED WITH DESTRUCTION OF GOV PROPERTY GOT AN OTHER THAN HONARABLE DISCHARGE AND CHASED ME DOWN ALL THE WAY TO KOREA ON A BOOT CAMP PRANK!! WHAT A WASTE OF TIME!!


BUT HEY GETTING OUT WAS BEST THING EVER HAPPENED TO ME GOT A DEGREE IN COMPUTERS USED AN FHA FOR FIRST HOUSE SINCE NO VA BIG DEAL SAME THING!!
SOLD THAT HOUSE FOR A BIGGER ONE REFIDE THE BIGGER ONE FOR A CROSSFIRE, HEMI, AND A 1100 CC SHADOW SITTIN ON AN IRA "MY RETIREMENT FUND" WIFES GOT A GOVY JOB "MY MEDICAL" AND OWN A SMALL BIZ THAT DOES FAIRLY WELL $500 DAY CLEANING ROOFS DAM IT TOOK 2 WEEKS TO MAKE THAT IN THE ARMY!! HEY THINK BIG DREAM BIG BE BIG!!!
OTH ONLY TEMPORAIRILY HAD!!!
MILITARY SMILITARY
U BE THE BOSS!!!

AND I WENT TO RECRUITERS OFFICE TO ASK ABOUT AN UPGRADE ONE TIME AND HE SAID LET ME CHECK ON IT CALLED ME A WEEK LATER AND ASKED IF I WANTED TO REENLIST AND THAT IT COULD BE TAKEN CARE OF IF I DID CRAP ID BE OVER IN IRAQ NO HOUSE, CAR, WIFE, AND SOME SERIOUS AMOUNT OF HEAT!! NO THANKS TO ALL THOSE CAUGHT UP IN THE BULLSHIT!! KEEP YOUR HEADS UP DEMOCRATES ARE TRYING TO GET U HOME!! WE LOVE YA!! WORRY FOR YA!! AND PRAY GOD LOOKS OVER U!! FOR ANYONE THINKING OF JOINING BEWARE OF REP AGENDAS YOU ARE A PAWN IN A CHESS MATCH DONT THROW YOUR LIFE AWAY JUST TO PROVE TO YOURSELF THAT YOUR TOUGH MACHO OR DESPERATE FOR SOMEONE TO TELL U WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE CAUSE U CANT FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANT AND DON'T LET EM TRICK YOU FOR THE MOST PART IT SUCKS THE FRIENDS AND UNIFORM IS REALLY ALL THEY HAVE TO OFFER YOU FEEL SCRAPY GO JOIN UFC THERE U CAN FIGHT GET YOUR FACE BEAT IN FEEL LIKE A MAN AND GET PAID!
PEACE!

B3MIKE,
Thanks for the advice, it is what I will probably end up doing. Minus the re-enlisting part. I really don't want to spend any more time in the Navy then I have to. I have put 4 years in already, I suppose I could do another 2, but I know I am still going to have to put up with a lot of B.S. that I really don't want to have to. I am just really tired of it all right now. Anyhow, thanks again for the advice. It doesn't seem like too many people get real advice on here, at least not lately.

Patrick, the reenlisting part was only a minor suggestion. If you can avoid getting into trouble and do everything right till your time is up then more power to you. Just try not to brush any elbows with anyone and don't tell anyone what you are going to do. From my personal experience, friends are not what they appear to be. People enjoy kicking you around when you are down on your luck. The only person you can really trust and depend on is yourself. Well lastly just do your job and be aware that someone out there might be watching you, waiting for you to screw up. Just don't give them any reasons to mess with you. As for the advice, no problem. I just don't want to see another fellow service member get screwed by the system like many of us already have. Peace...

My situation is pretty fucked up, but the most fucked up thing is that although i dealt with so much crap from my command is how much i miss the military. anyways in boot camp i was always picked for leadership positions i guess my petty officer saw some kind of potential, well this was good for me it would later turn against me.Also i was considered on eof the best looking females in our ship, or barracks what ever you want to call them, you'll see how this all plays out later on in situation.

One of the other females that graduated in my command just happened to be going to the same duty station as me. she acted like she was glad about it. well after graduation half of my command was stuck on hold before we could go to our "A" schools, thanks to the "great" job our yeoman did with our paper work,while i was on hold i was given another leadership position and special liberty. when i get to go to pensacola florida for my "A" school is where it started. This is where i learned just how immature alot of people in the navy are. I started hearing rumors about my self with guy's. i didn't know where these rumors were comming from so i just ignored them and got all my certificates etc...
When i get to my command, HS 7 only a couple of weeks go by and people are saying shit. i was so stressed out from being literally the subject of parties that i bacame depressed and even was talking to a phsycologist to deal with my depression. I started hanging out with a guy in my command and it soon evolved into a relation ship which was against command policy. we were the same rank and everything only we were little airman so they jumped all over our asses while there were officers dating other airman but that was ok since an officer was involved any ways i was given the choice to change commands which i agreed to due to stress and nothing was done about it. so i'm still in the same shitty command and later find out where all the rumors were coming from which happened to be the fe,ale that went to boot camp with me. i guess she wa jealous over my success in boot camp. Well this lealousy soon turned to hate because she manipulated people into believing her lies. One guy even went so far as to say that the guy i was dating called him up and said that we were doing coke. so i was questioned by ncis and they couldn't get me on anything.
My command searched my room without an MAA present, which i was told by a JAG officer was highly against the rules, found an empty bottle of alcohol on my room mates dresser and i was charged with underage drinking. Some time after the drug thing i fin dmyselfe being read my rights and being charged for drugs, i never popped on any drug test or nothing.

I didn't sign the paper and asked to speak with JAG and was denied altough my rights clearly stated that i could speak with legal, the LT charging me with this stated " even if you het past these charges i will makle sure you naval career is short" which i'm told now since he was the one charging me and made that comment he wasnt even allowed to charge me due to conflict of interest since he made it a personal thing.
So i go to mass where i am told that although i'm not admitting to drugs they dont believe me so i should just admit to it or i'll get a BCD and thrown in the brigg, and they would bring people in to testify against me so i was manipulated into admitting to doing drugs, sent to TPU wgere i was denied medical, again highly illegal.

BUT THE MOST FUCKED UP THING IS THAT ALTHOUGH I WAS MANIPULATED INTO ADIMITTING TO DOING COKE IS THAT ON THE WEEKEND THAT I WAS SUPPOSEDLY IN SOUTH CAROLINA DOING LINES, I HAVE PROOF THAT I WAS IN JACKSONVILLE FLORIDA BECAUSE I HAD WATCH THE ENTIRE WEEKEND DUE TO THE FACT THAT I WAS IN TROUBLE FOR DATING SOMEONE IN THE COMMAND, AND THEY HAD TO LOG IT BECAUSE THE CO SAID IF I WAS LATE TO ANY OF MY WATCHES I WOULD BE IN MORE TROUBLE. I WAS ALSO TOLD THAT I WOULD GET A COPY OF MY NJP PAPERS BUT WAS SENT AWAY EMPTY HANDED.

oH AND I GUESS HELPING TO GET ME KICKED OUT WASN'T ENOUGH FOR A CERTAIN FEMALE BECAUSE I FOUND OUT THAT NOW SHES MAKING SHIT UP ABOUT WHY I WAS KICKED OUT TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT I GARDUATED WITH.

tHANKS FOR YOUR TIME I KNOW IT WAS LONG BUT I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE ABOUT MY SITUATION
MUCH LOVE

ex-navy chick on June 23, 2006 2:26 AM

I'm getting ready to turn my self in after 6 months of being UA, Should I go Pendleton or Quantico? and does anyone know of any good attorneys that handle these type of things. Thanks for the help

Hello John, you should call the GI Rights Hotline at 1 800 394 9544. Good luck bud.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY (IN ALL CAPS) THAT THIS IS A REAL GOOD WEB SITE, AND YES THE MILITARY REALLY SUCKS, BUT IT DID GOOD FOR ME. BEING 22, HOMELESS, ALMOST BROKE, A METH & HEREON ADICT, AND HAVING SOMEWHAT OF A PRICE ON MY HEAD, THE MILITARY WAS A PRETTY GOOD MOVE FOR ME. I JUST DO THE MAIL. WANA STAMP? NOBODY REALLY GIVES ME A HARD TIME ON THE SHIP CUZ I WILL THROW YOUR MAIL IN THE OCEAN. I'VE SAVED UP $10,000 IN A YEAR CUZ I NEVER GO OUT REALLY. I INVEST IN STOCKS. SO THE MILITARY IS GOOD FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE NOWHERE ESLE TO GO AND BURNTOUT. GOTA GIVE IT THAT. OF, COURSE I KNEW WHAT I WAS GETTING INTO, SO MY RECRUTER COULD'NT LIE TO ME, IT ONLY TOOK 2 DAYS (49 HOURS NON-STOP, stupid meth)TO RESERCH IT. AT LEAST I GOT CLEAN. JUST WAITIN FOR MY FOUR YEARS FOR ANOTHER SHOT AT THE WORLD, OR A LETTER BOMB, WHATEVER WORKS.

I have just spent hours reading all the posts, sometimes feeling hopeless and sometimes feeling that there could be light at the end of a very long tunnel.
My sons only mistake in the Marine Corp was that he was immature,(17years old) and when he was asked if he wanted out, he said yes. After that his 1st sgt made his life hell on earth.
I went to P.I. to see if there was someone I could talk to about this, and was given the run around, after 2 weeks, I ran out of motel money and was sleeping in my car, finally one day I got my gut full and was walking around the base and saw a guy with a bunch of ribbions all over his chest, I watched where he went, waited about 10 minutes and went into the same building, and there he was sitting behind his desk, so I asked him if I could speak to him, he said "Sure" so I sat down and starting asking my questions....
He assured me that he would take care of the matter ASAP. I left feeling pretty good about the Corp and the situation with the 1st sgt. By the next day I was told everything was fine and that I could leave with my son. We left.... I never heard another word until he got papers in the mail that said he had an oth.
That was in 1985, he has put himself thru hell since then and would give anything to have it changed. He now has a wonderful job and a family with one of his daughters who has just graduated from boot camp with the Young Marines, he would love to join the staff of the Young Marines, but of course, cannot. Just one more reason to blame himself. He has letters from the Corp. he has worked for,(17 yrs) our County Magistrate, an R.N. a Child I.D. Program that he serves as a Board of Director, and numberous friends and fellow retired Marines.
My son feel that by joining the staff of the Young Marines this would be his way of giving back and making a bad choice better....
The advice I need is: do I contact our congressman (who I know) or do I just submit all the papers and pray?
I do not want my son to know I am doing this for him, unless I have to tell him...
please help !!

Hey all....What's good? I been in this forum for a while and I wanna tell my situation. I got out in January 2006 from a helicopter squadron in the south that is notorious for fuckin' over people (at least according to the ones that got screwed over) I got out for the weed...OTH all day. The thing that saved me was the reenlistment i did 3 years into my 4 year contract, so I got my G.I. bill (smart, huh?) and now I'm sittin on $36,000 from them and $46,000 from the state/federal aid I'm allowed to get. I'm in school as we speak and I'm doing fucking great! 4.00 GPA, believe that! To all the ones that got kicked out of HS-7, don't feel bad and don't GIVE UP!!! I don't care about what all the little people think of you guys, because 9 times outta 10, I knew you well and I was one of the people that you probably talked to about your problems, so I'm wit' you! You know who you are out there.....Holla @ me if you want to. I can give you advice and resources that you might need...heh-heh! Holla!

downwiththesystem on July 1, 2006 6:13 PM

Hey John I turned myself in last year at quantico. It's a really good base and I recomand it. They'll proboly tell you your going back, but don't go ua until they NJP you. If you go before they'll catch you and put you in the brig for a month. But if you go after your NJP (that is ofcourse if there sending you back) they might mail you a discharge. They mostly only keep infantry.. And they need a pattern of misconduct that's why a second ua might be needed. Good luck man.

I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR ANYONE WHO CAN HELP ME OUT IN THIS MATTER. RIGHT NOW I AM IN THE VERGE OF GETTING THE BOOT FROM THE MARINE CORPS....(WHILE I AM ON MY SECOND TOUR IN IRAQ) THE SITIUATION IS I AM OVER WEIGHT AND CATN LOSE IT FOR SOME REASON. MY MAX IS 203 AT 72IN AND I WEIGH ABOUT 230, ANOTHER THING IS I CANT PASS THE PFT SO THE COMMAND TOLD ME IF I DONT LOSE WEIGHT AND PASS THE PFT THEY WILL BOOT ME. I AM ON MY 6TH YEAR IN THE CORPS WHEN THEY KICK ME OUT WOULD I BE ABLE TO KEEP MY GI BILL? AND WHAT WOULD THEY KICK ME OUT AS FOR BEING OVER WEIGHT AND FAILING A PFT? IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME PLEASE LET ME KNOW THANK YOU.

for failing a PFT you shoud get kicked out on a admin seperation. and I think you still get your veteran's benefits. ask your career planner. if you were able to do the pft and pass you might be able to cahllenge the weight by having them measure you and if your fat percentage is within a certain area then you are okay. other than that god luck asn be safe!! Semper Fi!!

Erin Castro on July 12, 2006 11:20 PM

HEY, I WAS IN THE NAVY FOR 6 1/2 YEARS. I MUST ADMIT THAT I HAVE SEEN SOME REALLY GOOD TIMES WHILE I WAS IN. HOWEVER, I HAVE NOTICED THAT SPEAKING UP FOR YOURSELF IS NOT THE BEST THING TO DO. I FOUND MYSELF ALWAYS ON THE DEFENSE WHILE I WAS ONBOARD THE USS JOHN C. STENNIS, IN SAN DIEGO (NOW IN WASH.) HOWEVER, I WOULDN'T BOW DOWN TO IGNORANCE. I WAS IN A NO WIN SITUATION. I'VE BEEN TO CAPTAIN'S MASS AT LEAST 5 TO 6 TIMES IN THE FIVE YEARS THAT I WAS ONBOARD THE JCS. I'VE BEEN TO A COURT MARTIAL. I BEAT THE COURT MARTIAL, AND ALL CAPTAIN'S MASS, BUT 2. THE LAST C.M. I WENT TO ONBOARD THE JCS WAS BECAUSE I LET ONE MY WORKERS GO TO HIS RACK. I ALSO WENT TO MY RACK FOR SOME SHUT EYE. I DID THAT BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN UP WITH ME ALL NIGHT WORKING. SO, IF HE WORKS FOR ME, I THOUGHT THAT I WOULD LET HIM GO FROM A WORKING PARTY. I HAD NO IDEA THAT I WAS IN TROUBLE UNTIL THE DAY OF A DISCIPLINARY REVIEW BOARD (2-3 MONTHS LATER). THERE WAS NOT WRITE UPS OR NOTHING. WELL WHEN, I WENT TO THE REVIEW BOARD, I TOLD THE COMMAND MASTER CHIEF THAT I DID LET HIM GO, AND WHY. HOWEVER, SINCE ME AND MY DIVISION WAS ALWAYS INTO IT, THEY WANTED TO PUSH THE ISSUE. WELL, THEY WON. BUT, I WAS STILL IN AND THE C.O. LET ME TRANSFER TO ANOTHER DUTY STATION. MY DIVISION TRIED TO CANCEL MY ORDERS... I FOUGHT THAT AND I TRANSFERRED. BEFORE I TRANSFERRED, MY DIVISION SENT A MESSAGE TO MY SOON TO BE NEW COMMAND. I HAD A BUDDY THAT WAS ALREADY AT THE NEW COMMAND. HE CALLED ME UP AND TOLD ME THAT A MESSAGE HAD BEEN SENT WITH ALL NEGATIVE THINGS TO SAY ABOUT ME. SO, BASICALLY, I WAS ON THIN ICE BEFORE I EVEN CHECKED IN.

WELL, WHEN I GOT TO NAS KINGSVILLE, IT WAS ALL BAD. EVERYTHING WAS GOING WRONG. MY MARRIAGE WAS UP IN THE AIR. BUT, I KEPT MY HEAD UP, AND STAYED STRONG. I WENT TO WORK ONE NIGHT AND FORGOT MY MONEY. AND MY WIFE DROVE ONE OF MY CARS ON BASE WHILE THE CAR WAS ON "E". I USED THE GAS CARD TO FILL UP THE CAR. BUT, WHEN I WENT TO WORK THE NEXT DAY, MY CHIEF CAME TO ME AND ASKED ME ABOUT IT. I TOLD THE SITUATION AND I PAID FOR IT. I TOLD THAT I WAS PLANNING ON PAYING FOR IT WHILE I WAS AT WORK THAT DAY SINCE I ALREADY KNEW WHERE TO PAY IT BACK TO. BUT, ONE OF THE E-5s HAD SAID THAT HE SAW ME FILLING ANOTHER PERSON'S CAR. THE OTHER GUY WAS ON THIN ICE SINCE HE CHECKED IN TO. I DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE GUY EXCEPT FOR HIS CAR. WELL, I HAD TO FIGHT THAT OFF (ALL THIS FIGHTING... I SHOULD BE WORLD'S CHAMP). WELL, I WENT TO A REVIEW BOARD. I WAS A BOARD OF ALL 8-9 MALES AND ONE FEMALE CHIEFS. THEY MADE A COMMENT ABOUT MY WIFE. I SIMPLY TOLD THEM THAT I AM THE ONE THAT IS ON THE REVIEW BOARD ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I DID AND PAID FOR. THOUGH WE ALL KNOW ABOUT ME AND MY MARRIAGE, THE ONLY THING THAT SHE DID THAT NIGHT WAS COME SEE ME WHILE I WAS AT WORK. SO, LET ME DEAL WITH MY WIFE. THAT'S MY JOB. AND, SHE IS NOT A SLAVE OR ROBOT FOR ME, OR ANYBODY ELSE.

WELL, I THAT DIDN'T SIT WELL WITH THE BOARD. SO, I WENT TO C.M. I WAS REDUCED IN RANK AND PLACED ON RESTRICTION. WHILE I WAS ON RESTRICTION, I WAS PLACED IN HANDCUFFS 2 OR 3 TIMES. I WAS PLACED OUT ON BACK FIELD ALONE, WITH NO WATER, RESTROOM, OR ANY FORM OF COMMUNICATION AND TRANSPORTAION FILLING SAND BAGS ALL DAY IN THE HEAT. I ASKED THE JAG IF THAT WAS CRUEL AND UNUAL, OR UNCONSTITUTIONAL PUNISHMENT. IT FINALLY CAME TO AN END WHEN MY RESTRICTION WAS ABOUT OVER. I WAS DISCHARGED WITH AN OTHER THAN HONORABLE DISCHARGE AND AN ESCORT. LATER PERSONNEL FROM THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT WAS AT MY HOME WITH THE POLICE FOR ME TO SIGN SOME PAPERS RESTRICTING ME FROM COMING BACK TO THE BASE AND KINGS RANCH.

NOW, I WAS RATHER BITTER ABOUT THE WHOLE THING BECAUSE OF ALL THE THINGS THAT I WENT THROUGH WITH THE JCS, THEN THAT WHOLE THING TRAVELED TO TX BEFORE I MADE IT THERE. I FEEL THAT THE NAVY SHOULD REVIEW IT'S POLICIES A LITTLE BIT. THE MILITARY WAS A LESSON TO LEARN (GOOD AND BAD). I DO WANT TO CHANGE MY DISCHARGE TO SOMETHING POSITIVE. HOWEVER, I DO WANT TO KNOW WHAT BENEFITS WAS STRIPPED FROM ME?!?

Hi Wilson,

If you reenlisted at one point during your six years you get to keep all of your benefits and there's nothing they can do about it. Seems like you went through a harsh experience, pretty similar to mine.

I am in the Navy and have been in for almost 3 years. I don't like it at all. The people treat you like dirt and work you until you drop. Their only concern is taking the credit for your hard work, moving up in rank and treating you like a slave.
I used to work in an administrative department and it wasn't going well at all. There were so many bad things happening that I decided to write them down. I ended up writing a 14 page statement which contained detailed information including witnesses, exact locations, time, the whole nine yards basically.
There was one issue I wrote in that statement which really bothered me and it was that my supervisors had the nerve to accuse me of lying about my grandfather's death so that I could go on leave. The worst part was I was at home when I got the call. I was too upset to even respond and my father ended up cursing them out. When I got off of leave I had voluntarily brought in the death certificate and obituary to prove that I wasn't lying. Guess what? The CO didn't do anything.
Not to mention I was sent to captain's mast for bullcrap reasons that my supervisors made up. They said that I went UA for an hour. I actually went to lunch I even had proof because since they treated us like kids they wanted us to sign out on this big board in the office writing down the time and place. I also had a witness who was a first class who saw me go to lunch and tried to vouch for me.
Another reason was because I supposedly kept making mistakes and awards and correspondence, but actually the LPO just kept changing her mind to what I had previously had over and over and over. There was no consistency.
In the end they sent me to CCU in pensacola for 30 days. Guess what happened next? All of the supervisors there were all hating on me when I kept getting visited by an 0-6 from where I worked. They would say "What makes you so important?" I was also promoted to E-4 while in there.
Please someone give me some feedback.

maggie griswald on July 18, 2006 9:20 AM

I have been in the corps for about 5 months now, left for boot in Feb. Since I joined I have been completly depressed and I have started to have panic attacks. I really don't care how I get out but I need to some how because I just can't adjust to the lifestyle and I have started a bad habit of drinking almost every day. Please give me any advice you have on what I should do. Thanks

If at all possible, hang in there Troy. You'll have to go speak with someone. Don't do anything stupid. YOU'LL REGRET IT THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. The rewards are worth it both cognitively and economically. You completed the hardest part of the corp and thats boot. The training aspect all sucks. Once out of training the corp will still suck. But, that's the corp. You will adjust better after the training. If you can't hang go speak with someone. It is better to receive a medical discharge and get the help you need then to receive an OTH. It always follows you no matter where you go. You will have to comfront it every time you look for a job, go for evaluations, and most important listen to your concience. Don't let yourself down unless there is absolutely no way you can deal with it. I regret the only negative thing on my life's record--OTH. Like Marlin Brando said, "I could have been a contender".

hello all. about 6 years ago i decided to join the navy and go into the nuke program. It was on a whim, i was bored during winter break from college and i signed up and left within 4 days. while in basic i of course didn't like it (who does?), and of course had the little touch of homesickness. I have regreted this decision since that day...another sailor and i had been talking about how boot camp sucked,etc. and jokingly discussed getting out. He came up with the bright idea to tell his company commander that he was hooked on drugs. well it worked and he packed up and went home. i thought, shit why not right? i was only 19, and about as mature as a 12 year old so i tried it..yup...told some civilian woman at RTC Great Lakes that I was addicted to pot(ha!) and alchohol and that if i didn't have a joint i wanted to jump off of a building...and it actually worked! so off i went to the seperation barracks...and ended up with an entry-level RE4 discharge stating alchohol and drug abuse on my DD214..now keep in mind..i was going for the nuke program so i got piss tested about 5 times while i was at boot camp and not once did i pop positive..i lied about the entire thing.. and i was only there about 6 weeks all together..i know i punked out..i f i had it to do again i know i would problably be a nuke engineer by now, but hind sight is allways 20/20

i have went many routes since then..none of them drug related...the only police record i've ever had where some speeding tickets...i now have a family..and an ex-wife (lol) and have been working in the IT area for a couple of years..i worked a FEMA contract following hurricane katrina...the FBI did a background check on me and NOTHING came up...in fact they literally said WE FOUND NOTHING..the fingerprinted me and everything...now i work at a government facility, and my boss has said i need to get a secret level clearance, eventually needing a TS .... is my stupid fucking mistake 6 years ago going to show up???? better yet is there a way to fix it?? i would do anything...even re-enlist and go overseas if needed...when i left the chief that finished my paper work told me NOT to mention this to employers...but a friend of mine is a PN in the navy and was able to do some checking for me...he found a picture of my contract and DD214 in some database...i have a really good job..and don't want this to haunt me forever...any advise anyone can give i would really appreciate it!! sorry this was a long post..i don't know where else to ask for help

Well if you went to boot camp you would be enlisted and not a nuke engineer within 6 years.

Enlisted people typically are of the operator (non engineer) sort.

thanks for the response aaron....i was planning on the college path with a degree in engineering and all....i really just want to fix what i did if possible..
will this show up when i try to get a secret clearance?

Man, what a site! absolutley fuckin love it! way to go OTH-ers! funny story, always talked about bein a marine, finally enlisted jan '01. Loved it. slowly but surely started to hate it. started to loathe the fact that the military did not want me to be an orignal, or be me, or most importantly have what our founding fathers created this country in the first place for FREEDOM. they wanted me to be mindless, and follow the platoon over a cliff into a pit full of bloody hiv infected spikes. never did drugs while i was in (but before, whoo i miss dem days), never got out of line, i was an awesome marine. excellent pft scores, knowledge scores the whole nine yards. but i was young dumb and full of cum. everyone told me not to join but i was hardheaded and didnt listen. I have lived a successfull life DESPITE the fact that i got an oth discharge. no body gives a fuck about that shit anymore. 90% of the people in this country think its fucked up anyways. everybody thinks its such a bad thing, but in my circumstance i just didnt wanna do it anymore. i laugh every time i think about the crap my co's said when i stopped showing up "your ruining your life, youll never be able to own a gun or get a good job". man im not even sure where to start on that, im currently in law enforcement in northern VA for the past 4 years, i have plenty of guns and am an active member of NRA, i also just received paperwork from the BATF to start SELLING guns right out of my own home, and ive got an awesome career under my belt at only 25yrs old. fuck your co's fuck uncle sam (all he does is take you money anyways) and fuck all those dipshits who just wish they could get out but since they cant they feel like they have to bash you too make themselves feel better and get through another misereable day of military life. dont let these wanna-be patriarcs who post ignorant messages get to you. they are just jellyfishes who dont have the guts to stick it to the govt, and know when they are whipped by the beast that we all call uncle sam. some of you feel you made wrong descisions. I feel you made the right choice by living your life under YOUR conditions. anyway im ramblin about how much i hate the govt/military again.

The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrantsÖGod forbid we should ever be twenty years without such rebellion; what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms!Ē Ė Thomas Jefferson

Government is not reason, it is not eloquenceóit is force.Ē Ė George Washington

anyways like i said you can live a happy and regretless life just by living it and forgetting the mistake that you THINK you made by quitting/popping/slapping your Lt. whatever. having a successful life with an oth is not possible...........its definate. dont wallow in remorse, i did and it gets you no where. unless you wanna be mr. cia man you might have trouble. other than that go for it guys and gals, the only thing stopping you from achieving your goal is you, so quit worrying about that oth and go make sumthin of yourself and show all those non-believers that having an oth wont slow you down a bit. the military and govt only slanders anyone without an honorable discharge because they dont want the majority of americans following our footsteps and defiling the govt. fuck em. i wouldnt piss in their mouths if theyre teeth were on fire.
im proud to be one of the few....the proud...the Other Than Honorables!

Semper I fuck the other guy!

chuck D

aaron you rock dude. sorry for the foul mouthedness

P.S.
by the way YES im drunk when i typed this. what are they gonna do? give me an other than honorable discharge? HA HA!

I came to this site after learning a large number of people in my command will be getting kicked out for using controlled substances. I wanted a broader view of what happens to OTH discharges after they leave the military. After reading most (by no means all) of the entries, I would say that the majority of OTH recipients have a hard time after leaving the military. Despite the moderator's assertions, there simply aren't very many "OTH success stories" out there.

Of the four people I personally know and have kept contact with after their OTH, two are in prison, one is unemployed and lives with his parents, and the other is unemployed and (as of two weeks ago) homeless.

The bottom line is:
If you suck at military life, then you'll probably suck at civilian life, as well.

The bottom line is: If you suck at military life, then you'll probably suck at civilian life, as well.
That is an absolute bullshit assertion.

It really depends on WHY you ended up getting a OTH discharge. No I am not talking about using drugs or punching someone in the face or just telling your CO to fuck off. I am talking about were you incompatible with life? Or (far more often) were you just incompatible with the military?

Most people get on just fine with life even if their life calling was not being a cog in the US war machine.

As the person who created this page (and ranked it #1 in Google for queries like other than honorable discharge) I know it can take a bit of time to sort things out and figure out what you want to do.

Lots of people want you to believe that you failed at life when you got out of the military, but in reality are you any worse off than a guy who served honorably and got his leg blown off in a war zone?

Some scars are physical. Others are mental. But the human mind is SO FUCKING STRONG. You chose the reality you want to happen and then push as hard as you can to keep learning and do your best to make it happen.

The concept of closure is quite bogus in nature, but it is up to you to prove your value in life - to yourself and to others.

No reason to let some other arbitrary group FROM THE PAST give you a label that sticks with you and guides your actions for the rest of your life.

I am living proof that you do not have to.

Sure it took me a few years to become exceptionally successful, but would you have really been happy (and successful) in a few years if you were still in the military? I would not have. And for you, the answer is also most likely probably not (or else you would not have just departed from that system).

aaron wall on July 22, 2006 6:44 PM

i know this site primarily is against the military...and i respect that decision/opinion (freedom of speech)...i however was not in long enough to develop an opinion either way...so yes..i am considering going back in the military if i can..my line of work is primarily government contracts and i like my line of work..any advise you guys can give on how i can fix an RE4 entry level discharge would be extremely helpful

I've just now started the process of getting the OTH... In fact I'm still within the first 30 days waiting to do turn myself in. But I had a couple questions, I keep seeing people talking about upgrading their Discharge... What are the advantages of upgrading the discharge?

What are the major disadvantages of an OTH discharge... Especially if I plan to go to college, will a OTH make tghat hard?

How does this whole waiting for 30 days thing work? When I called the hotline they just told me to wait until my name was taken off the roll and then literally o walk on an army base and say I want to turn myself in. Then after 4-5 days I should be discharged. Does that all sound right or is there something more I should know about?

I've just now started the process of getting the OTH... In fact I'm still within the first 30 days waiting to do turn myself in. But I had a couple questions, I keep seeing people talking about upgrading their Discharge... What are the advantages of upgrading the discharge?

What are the major disadvantages of an OTH discharge... Especially if I plan to go to college, will a OTH make tghat hard?

How does this whole waiting for 30 days thing work? When I called the hotline they just told me to wait until my name was taken off the roll and then literally o walk on an army base and say I want to turn myself in. Then after 4-5 days I should be discharged. Does that all sound right or is there something more I should know about?

is getting an OTH gonna affect my chances of becoming a police officer if i wanted?

Here is the thing...DO NOT do drugs in the military. All of you babies are whinning over getting a dishonorable discharge and calling it by another name because you do not want to accept that you did wrong!! You disgraced the military be testing positive for an illegal drug. (I am not talking about those tests that came back positive and were proved to be negative.) The military does make mistakes...however those of you who joined took a damn oath...and should take it seriously. You are here to protect your country and not be smoking pot or doing coke. Do that on your own time!!! This coming from a daugther of a retired Navy skivy waver and the ex-wife of a (proud) USCG RETIRED SENIOR CHIEF. SO...except what happened to you and except your punishments with grace. The military does not want a bunch of punks doing drugs. SEMPER PARATUS!!!

most of the time i hear people complaining that it's the NAVY who is giving the OTHs. It's because the NAVY is full of hom0s who are all frustrated. The NAVY is full of people who have a real fagitude problem. Which is why most of them joined the NAVY, so they could be hypocrites, not real soldiers, just play soldier on their hom0 ark.

The last two comments are perfect.

The most recent one arbitrarily brings in the question of homosexuality (perhaps due to the insecurity in James own sexuality)? Is James a fagitude?

Two comments ago "babies are whinning over getting a dishonorable discharge and calling it by another name" is also from an ignorant person who does not understand the discharge codes. If I would have got a dishonorable discharge I would have ensured this page ranked #1 in Google for that name. I am calling it what the military calls it.

I am also calling the last two posters what they are: ignorant assholes.

They are one of the main reasons I was so happy to get out of the military. Thanks for the kind reminders James and Caroline.

aaron wall on July 25, 2006 2:17 PM

I'm serious. My dad is retired navy. The other day I went with him to a navy base for this special navy event that has to due with his MOS. All these Homo navy dudes who are all strong and fat looking because all they do is sit around a lift weights like those homo's in prison, were eye balling me all the time. They looked all frustrated so they see me in civilian clothing and their fagitutde is pointed in my direction. Just because i'm not stuck in their horrible world, because i'm not a slave who has to ride in the homo ark for 40 days at a time. They were even eye balling my older sister when she went to make U turn in her car, like they were going to assult her for getting a little too close to one of the Navy MPs with the car. Either way it felt like a lot of frustration every time i saw some navy soldier. Which is why i Joined the army, hell they beat some homo to death at my unit in the 101st airborn. I went to 5th group a while, then got sick of their shit too, so i got my honorable and got the hell out. Good thing was there in the army it wasen't a lot of politics and there was lots of training so people were more relaxed, because what they were doing was real. Unlike those navy homoms who sign up and want to play soldier while hiding on some homo ark. Waiting to fight a battle with their fingers on some buttons. I would be frustrated too if i was on some ship all that time always hearing people talk trash and eye ball me. No wonder there are so many OTHs.

Why did you SIGN UP? Do you love your country Aaron? Guess not. You know nothing about what it takes to be in the military. I will tell you one thing...they are glad to be rid of people with attitudes like you. How can you expect men and women to do a good job when they are high on drugs? The civilian world expects no less. Most civilian jobs have drug testing also and you get the boot if tested positive. That's just life. How are we to set a good example for our children if our military is high all the time and don't want to be responsible for their actions?
Call me what you want...I am PROUD of our men and women and proud of my son for being in the USCG. Get a life. Quit bitching about things you know nothing about. Dishonarable is dishonorable.

>Why did you SIGN UP?

I was a lost 17 year old kid and my mother wanted me to do it.

I learned many valuable life lessons at a young age. It was a great call.

>Do you love your country Aaron? Guess not.

That is true. I generally am not tied to any system as flawed as our current one.

Generally throughout history it has been far more patriotic to question authority than it to blindly follow it.

>You know nothing about what it takes to be in the military.

True. I only did it for 5.5 years as a nuclear reactor operator - in the most high tech field available. I was well above average rated until they destroyed my work records prior to discharging me (talk about dishonorable).

When September 11th happened I was the guy in charge of getting the reactor ready for the boat to go overseas on less than 2 hours notice (when the process normally takes far longer). While being the youngest person in my division I was running the division that day while the chief and first class were on leave. IE: THEY PUT ME IN CHARGE (IN SPITE OF OTHERS BEING IN THE SERVICE LONGER OR HAVING A HIGHER RANK).

>I will tell you one thing...they are glad to be rid of people with attitudes like you.

Lovely. My attitude is as a person who demands far more from life than what the military offers. I told them that I didn't belong there long before I got in trouble for using drugs.

I am glad to be free of them and am glad that today more people will read about my opinions and experiences than yours.

>How can you expect men and women to do a good job when they are high on drugs?

It makes you wonder why they paint the submarines underway (illegal) and keep the oxygen levels artificially low if they don't want the service-members high on drugs.

>The civilian world expects no less.

Well. Darn. Bad. Deal. For. Me. I only get paid $500 an hour to chat on the phone to fortune 500 companies. I will send your complaint along to them with my next invoice then. Maybe they care. But I doubt it.

>Most civilian jobs have drug testing also and you get the boot if tested positive.

That might matter if I wasn't self employed, debt free, and independently wealthy (I even have time to waste answering your comments).

>That's just life.

I like my current boss and his working policies. He is a great person. If you met him in person you would love him.

>How are we to set a good example for our children if our military is high all the time and don't want to be responsible for their actions?

Tell them to stop painting underway and give the members normal oxygen levels. You know what I am talking about? Right? You served on the submarine right beside me, right?

>Call me what you want...I am PROUD of our men and women and proud of my son for being in the USCG.

Well you can be proud of whatever you want to be proud of. I am quite proud of my service and terms of discharge. I have no regrets with my discharge type, or the fact that it lead to me becoming independently wealthy and self employed.

>Get a life.

Same to you. What are you accomplishing here (except for looking like an ignorant asshole)?

>Quit bitching about things you know nothing about. Dishonarable is dishonorable.

What is truly dishonorable is not following your own advice.

If you wanted to make your son proud you would at least educate yourself before speaking about his line of work. Brush up on the discharge codes then come back with your apology.

aaron wall on July 25, 2006 3:36 PM

aaron the reason the NAVY found the time to screw with your life is because they have nothing better to do. All that time must be spent screwing with people's lives, trying to ruin their life, ruin their careers, ruin their dreams. Basically it comes down to "the end justifys the means" when you can't trust anyone around you accept for maybe one or two loyal friends who you know won't stab you in the back.

james...ever heard of the navy seals? ... who's a real soldier there?

doesn't matter on July 25, 2006 5:41 PM

JAMES AND CAROLINE, YOUR FLAWED LOGIC AND IGNORANCE HAVE BROUGHT A SMILE TO MY FACE. THANK YOU FOR REMINDING ME HOW GREAT IT IS TO BE AWAY FROM PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND THE MILITARY.

You are very welcome Aaron. I feel sorry for you. You have obviously been hurt and are having a hard time over coming that. I am glad that you are wealthy and enjoying your pitiful life all by yourself. I am SO DAMN glad that you are not protecting this wonderful country and my son is. You obviously were not meant to be in the military and it's just too bad that they did not find out when you were in boot camp because you could have been waiting for a bus on the side of the road with the rest of the pukes who could not cut it. I found this site on accident and yes, I may not know everything about the military and I may not be educated on all the terms..but I know one thing...there are PLENTY of military men and women who LOVE what they do. Most of the men and women in the military are not in it for the money. And I have news for you asshole. My dad was in the military for 23 years. 18 of that sea time. You say you were in for 5? OMG...a lifetime! He had a GREAT career and the military was awesome to our family. Not everyone feels the way you do. Not everyone has had bad experiences like you did. Maybe doing drugs was mistake, you think?? You got whatever you deserved.
SO. Continue with your work and best of luck to you. This mom is signing out. 'Nough said.

I never said the military was bad for everyone.

My general thesis is simply that intelligent people have no business being enlisted.

And as far as who is protecting the country goes, who does more to protect the country:

  • A cog in the military machine; or,
  • A wealthy entrepreneur who pays more in taxes than your son makes. And one who challenges corrupt corporations and beats them in court to preserve freedom of speech rights across new communication channels.

When I feel like it I work longer and harder and more passionately now than I did in the military (although sometimes I take a break whenever I feel like it).

I agree that I was a bad fit for the military. In fact I told them the same thing. But when I told them I would rather sell my blood than stay in their system, and that I was suicidally depressed they told me to fuck off. One night evidently I decided the appropriate thing to do was to say the same thing back.

I still maintain that destroying my work records is far less honorable than my service was.

The issue is not what is good for everyone or what is bad for everyone. Drugs are bad for a lot of people. So is the military. My extensive drug usage was no more of a mistake than joining the military was. Fortunately I don't entirely view either as such.

Sometimes you only find what you want by getting what you do not.

aaron wall on July 26, 2006 9:02 AM

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY INFORMATION ON GETTING A WAIVER FOR AN RE-4 DISCHARGE (NAVY)??????

Just remember Aaron...that many intelligent people were enlisted and died so that you can live in this great country and make the money that you make. But you will probably find some way to twist that around too. I am sorry that the military was not "nice" to you. Obviously, you were not informed about what the military expects or you would not have joined. Some people just don't like to take orders/shit from anyone. And you are correct when you say that it is not for everyone. My father retired after 23 years and had a great civilian career afterward and made shit loads of money. Please just do not lump everyone together. I get so sick of people being down on the military. It's one's own choice to join, as we do not have a draft. It's also one's choice to make the best of it after they join and follow order, stay clean, etc...My son is a better individual for having gone through his military experiences. Sometimes I feel like every 18 yr. old smart mouthed, punk (male or female) should have to serve a year or two to see how good he really has it in the "real world".
God bless the USA and God bless those who are willing to stand up for Her NO questions asked.
This ends it for me. Too old to keep going on about a topic that is emotional for me. Really, best of luck to you. You have some valid points and hopefully this site will educate rather than blind site.
Just remember...
It is the Soldier, not the reporter, who has given us the freedom of the press.
It is the Soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.
It is the Soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag,
who allows the protester to burn the flag.

>Just remember Aaron...that many intelligent people were enlisted and died so that you can live in this great country and make the money that you make. But you will probably find some way to twist that around too.

Hey lets not forget that I almost died too. And lets not forget how ultra biased you were when you started posting here. Trying to make it sound like a black and white issue, when in reality the military is exceptionally shitty for a great number of people.

>I am sorry that the military was not "nice" to you.

No you are not. You think I am a scumbag (or at least you clearly stated so above) when I did a job that over 90% of people never could have done.

>Obviously, you were not informed about what the military expects or you would not have joined.

Most 17 year old kids that join are not informed. That is actually part of the recruitment strategy. I don't think most 17 year old kids know what they want to do with their lives.

To say someone is a bad person because they could not for-see people drugging them with paint fumes and treating them subhuman while locking them in a cage full of other negative people AND NOT EVEN ALLOWING THEM TO EXERCISE, let alone see sunlight, is quite ridiculous to expect anything other than dissent from them to be honest.

>Some people just don't like to take orders/shit from anyone.

Taking orders and taking shit are two different topics. It is unfortunate how well they blend together in the military though.

>And you are correct when you say that it is not for everyone.

So then how do you get off telling me I am a dishonorable person?

>My father retired after 23 years and had a great civilian career afterward and made shit loads of money.

Money is not my main motivator. I take care of a number of other people and give plenty of it away. But I also realize that by even paying taxes I am supporting a system which oppresses many.

>Please just do not lump everyone together.

Unlike above, where you said "Dishonarable is dishonorable". Do as I say, not as I do!

>I get so sick of people being down on the military. It's one's own choice to join, as we do not have a draft. It's also one's choice to make the best of it after they join and follow order, stay clean, etc.

Sometimes staying clean means blatently violating or ignoring orders. Just depends on your frame of reference, I guess.

>Sometimes I feel like every 18 yr. old smart mouthed, punk (male or female) should have to serve a year or two to see how good he really has it in the "real world".

Good thing your authority is limited to what it is and your opinion does not count for much.

>God bless the USA and God bless those who are willing to stand up for Her NO questions asked.

Yeah. Cause most leaders are usually honest. No questions asked is how Hitler did so well.

>It is the Soldier, not the...

who bombs third world countries rich in oil for the profit of a few large corporations.

aaron wall on July 26, 2006 1:12 PM

You sure do have time on your hands...

I have read more than I need to read. Guess what? If you don't like this country and what it stands for then leave! I don't agree with our reasons for being in Iraq either, but your damn freedom still comes from those who died!! Quit blaming the military for your problems. Just about every single post on this site is from young punks who f#%*d UP and now want to blame the military for the unjustices done to them. GUESS WHAT?? YOU CAN'T SMOKE POT, DO METH, COKE AND ALL THE OTHER SHIT OUT THERE AND STAY IN THE MILITARY!!! You have a damn answer for everything and are the most arrogant person. You twist everything someone says if you don't agree with them. Can't you just accept the fact that some people LOVE their military life?? Funny how you say that money is not a motivator, yet that is all you talk about. How wealthy you are, how much money you make. You make me sick. If you are ever on a boat and it is sinking do me a favor and don't call the USCG. I would hate to see them waste their time and talent on someone like you. The military is not "shitty". You should be ashamed of yourself for having this site. Half the time you don't make sense. You are a selfrighteous asshole who only wants to see the worst. "staying clean' means not doing drugs while serving your country. And my opinion counts for a lot. You get off on be-littling others so as to make yourself feel good. That is so sad. You are sad. I suppose you would rather have Hitler running things.
I can't believe I have wasted my time on this site.
Best of luck to you. Someday I hope you won't be so biased and will be able to see that MOST military personnel are happy and leading great lives. I know MANY of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>If you don't like this country and what it stands for then leave!

That has the bogus assumption that your woldview is 100% correct and that I will find a place that is 100% aligned with what I want. I will eventually move though. Am sorta debating between Spain and New Zealand.

>I don't agree with our reasons for being in Iraq either, but your damn freedom still comes from those who died!!

And from those who challenged needless killing. Killing left uncheck deprives more rights than questioning those blindly following orders to kill.

>Quit blaming the military for your problems.

The military (and the bad lifestyle and leadership associated with it) is the #1 reason I am successful. Your the one arguing that I am dishonorable. I am simply saying that your opinion on the matter is of zero signifigance.

>Just about every single post on this site is from young punks who f#%*d UP and now want to blame the military for the unjustices done to them.

Destroying my work records was unjust, but I did not just whine about it. I used it as motivation to become a great marketer. And it worked. No whining. Just results here.

>GUESS WHAT?? YOU CAN'T SMOKE POT, DO METH, COKE AND ALL THE OTHER SHIT OUT THERE AND STAY IN THE MILITARY!!!

I know people who did :)

>You have a damn answer for everything and are the most arrogant person. You twist everything someone says if you don't agree with them.

I don't agree with that at all.

>Can't you just accept the fact that some people LOVE their military life??

Some do. I said being enlisted in the military is good for some. Just generally not for intelligent people.

>Funny how you say that money is not a motivator, yet that is all you talk about. How wealthy you are, how much money you make. You make me sick.

My point is that people throw that out as a measuring stick and tell me that I work at McDonalds. My point is that I can make 5 times what the average person makes without being exclusively focused on money. So, in essence, their myths and yardstick for the quality of a person are, at best, broken.

>If you are ever on a boat and it is sinking do me a favor and don't call the USCG. I would hate to see them waste their time and talent on someone like you.

I have not been on a single boat since the day I got out of the military. Am going to keep it that way too.

I hope if you are sinking that you do call the USCG, and that they can't save you because Coast Guard budget has been cut, and instead the money is sent to bomb poor third world countries.

>The military is not "shitty".

I suggest you go to Iraq and Afghanistan and experience it first hand. Support your country!

>You should be ashamed of yourself for having this site. Half the time you don't make sense. You are a selfrighteous asshole who only wants to see the worst.

You speak for yourself there. Although I would argue that you do not make sense at least 90% of the time.

>I suppose you would rather have Hitler running things.

Give the current regime enough time and the past and present will blend together. The only difference will be that we are told things are different.

>will be able to see that MOST military personnel are happy and leading great lives

hehehe. Most of them were not on the boat I was on. Maybe things will change though.

aaron wall on July 26, 2006 2:19 PM

The Coast Guard is probably the best branch of the military for far more reasons that I can type at the moment. The may have had cuts, but they still go out in the worst shit you can imagine and save lives every single day. They are some of the bravest men and women I know.

I make perfect sense.
Best of luck to you. Really. Especially if you move over seas. Lived there a long time.
Caroline

the Navy Seals don't somehow represent the majority of the NAVY. In fact people from the Army can join the NAVY seals. So what I said in my last few post still stands as fact.

mar - buy some gay mags, then get a friend to say that while you were on leave you gave into his gay advances and are now gay.

Aaron, I must admit that I find these two imbeciles comments amusing. Great job for exposing them for the fools they really are.

hay I popped on a piss test too, in 1995. Oh well i was just a wild immature punk. i,m 33 now married with three beautiful kids. I would love to reenlist. all you guys saying you know the rules are stupid. you know damn well you have broke some kind of rule in your enlistment. man its us on the outside just cause we curved the rules you want to leave us for dead. I am making it in the outside world with a oth. I would like to reenlist just because i love my country. but its morons in there that will kiss anyones ass and have a little bit of seniority that are trying to bash us that have made some mistakes in our life. just remember when i was in i never hurt no one except myself. I'm out now and you think your military is so perfect. I still watch and see how military personel is abusing prisoners, killing iraqis so no one will know they got raped covered up pat tillmans death and who knows what else is covered up. So, go ahead and judge us oth discharge people that nobody wants to help and everybody wants to judge. Dont get me wrong I still would love to fight for my country. I am just laughing because i am considered the 10 percent that cause this military to struggle. so all you perfect people just give me a favor and know what your talking about as you call RULES, because there is one god, and we are all going to be judged the same. No cries I am going back to my civilian life now, which is not that bad either.

terry martin on July 26, 2006 9:04 PM

Hey B3Mike. Are you talking to me? Are you calling me a fool? That is funny. I am just a proud mom of a son that is serving his country and loving it. I am also a proud Retired Coast Guard Wife and proud Navy Brat. Someone has to speak up for those who love the military and have had nothing but great experiences. Those that have not had positive experiences have only themselves to blame. I cannot believe how many people have posted on here that have failed piss test. HELLO? And then they wonder why the military doesn't want them. Unbelievable!!!! It's all about CHOICES and some of you made the wrong ones...You guys think that Aaron Wall is some sort of God because he has time on his hands to bad mouth the military and make those who have failed feel better. He is a manipulating man with a smart ass mouth. Joe Navy...you GO!

>Someone has to speak up for those who love the military and have had nothing but great experiences.

Right. Because there are many of those people. And only those who enjoyed wasting their lives in the mility deserve to have their voice heard. Especially because I have a larger marketing budget than the federal government. Right?

>Those that have not had positive experiences have only themselves to blame.

Yeah. Because if you join the military at the age of 17 and do not like it you are going straight to hell with Caroline.

>It's all about CHOICES and some of you made the wrong ones.

The military is not for everyone.

>He is a manipulating man with a smart ass mouth.

I would call you names too, but I can say no worse for you than your own words do.

aaron it's not our fault you weren't smart enough to plan ahead in case of an emergency. Such as getting caught with drugs. You should have had a contingency plan. Like you could have bought some gay magazines, then got a male friend to say that you two fell in love with eachother while you were on leave. But no, you're not that intelligent, you could have had an honorable discharge if you did that. See you have no one to blame but yourself, you knew the rules and diden't go by the rules and paid for it.

SORRY, GOING TO HELL IS NOT AN OPTION AS I AM A CHRISTIAN.
WHY CAN'T YOU JUST ACCEPT THAT SOME PEOPLE HAD GREAT CAREERS AND LOVED THEIR JOBS WHILE ENLISTED? AND IT'S NOT ABOUT NOT "LIKING" IT...OOHH YOU POOR BABY...IT'S ABOUT USING DRUGS OR DOING SOMETHING STUPID THAT YOU NEW WAS STUPID SO THEY DIDN'T WANT YOUR DUMB ASS. YOU CAN SHOVE YOUR LARGE MARKETING BUDGET. YOU PROBABLY LIVE IN A TRAILER.
I AM OUT. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME. GO LIVE YOUR PITIFUL LIFE AARON AND GOD BLESS THE MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi James
You are an idiot. I knew reenlisting would give me an honorable discharge. I knew doing other things would get me a discharge. I didn't care about my discharge code. I hated my life in that organization. And using drugs was one of the quickest ways off the boat.

I wasn't even caught using drugs.

I told other people what I did. Even when standing watch the next morning nobody knew other than the people I told. But then those people told other people. I don't regret it, and I probably told over 20% of the crew what I did when I was all fucked up (most likely trying to get caught). It doesn't make me not smart. It makes me one who did not like where he was and was willing to do whatever to leave his destructive environment. And I did.

caroline i know chrisitans, and your behavior isn't anymore christian than mine,lol

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

See you in hell Caroline, you judgemental loser.

aaron that's not true. It would be a much fast way off the boat for you to do as I said in my last few post. If you bought some gay magazines, got a friend to say you had become homosexual lovers when you were on leave...then said you suspect that some other people in your unit knew about it and you were in danger. Then the commanders would be worried and have you off that boat in one week....that is unless the navy is full of homosexuals, and they love it.

If I am judgemental..what the heck are YOU Aaron? You are pathetic. You judge everyone on here. You have a smart assed answer for everything and quote stupid quotes. You hide behind your key board because you are a coward. I doubt your situation was "destructive" when you were in. You were just a baby who could not hack it. The "real world" in easier. When things got tough, you wanted out. Thank God you did something stupid to get out. The military doesn't want people like you. You are right when you say that you have to conform and do what they say...it's the damn MILITARY!!!!!!! That's what it is all about...

All I am saying is that some have had great careers and families while being in and never had a bad experience. I don't doubt that you didn't like it and it was not for you. Can't you just agree that for some (intelligent people) it is a good choice? Why must you bash the one's that are in and liking it by saying they are not intelligent or that they are losers for staying?

Wow, what an interresting site.

My son is in the Marines, about 6 months now. He is misserable and wants out. He told some lies to the 1st Sggt, I think it was the only way he knew to deal with a situation he was in with some other marines. He got NJP for the lies, but didn't sign the papers till about 2 weeks ago. So after a month and a half of restriction, and being treated like shit, he finally signed the papers. Then the next punishment was a fine and reporting in every hour on the hour for two weeks, including being woken up in the middle of the night every hour to report in. Is this unjust?
He had told me he wasn't feeling well, and had a terrible headach and a stiff neck. I told him to tell someone because it could be meningitis. Then he began vomiting and couldn't keep any food down, someone heard him and they finally let him sleep through the night.
For two days he told me that when he asked to see the doctor, he was asked if he was dying. He said, "No, I'm not dying, but I'm sick". The response was....well if your not dying you don't need to see the Dr. To make a very long story short...He did something to get me involved. They finally took him in to the hospital where they did a lumbar puncture. The Dr. at the time was sure it was bacterial meningitis because the CSF was murkey, but the tests came back negative. I don't know what they finally decided that he had, but he got 72 hours bed rest and the next day they came with some anti-biotics he was supposed to take. A few days later the Captain called to tell me that he was caught in the head making himself vomit. They were going to send him to mental health professional, but that they didn't want him in their Marines anymore because he told lies. They were trying to make it sound like the whole being sick incident was fabricated, I think to cover the fact that they didn't let him get medical attention. Of course everything on their part was documented that THEY asked him if he wanted medical attention. Wow...and my son is the liar.
Be that as it may, will they get him out and what kind of a discharge will it be.

I've just now started the process of getting the OTH... In fact I'm still within the first 30 days waiting to do turn myself in. But I had a couple questions, I keep seeing people talking about upgrading their Discharge... What are the advantages of upgrading the discharge?

What are the major disadvantages of an OTH discharge... Especially if I plan to go to college, will a OTH make tghat hard?

How does this whole waiting for 30 days thing work? When I called the hotline they just told me to wait until my name was taken off the roll and then literally o walk on an army base and say I want to turn myself in. Then after 4-5 days I should be discharged. Does that all sound right or is there something more I should know about?

Have you taken your medications this week Caroline?

Hi Ryan
I think the specifics are quite vague, but the GI Rights Hotline is a reliable source for honest information and advice.

The military is somewhat like a business. If you fuck up in front of other people they have to try to punish you to set an example for the rest of the herd to follow. If you are isolated from the herd then they may try to administratively sort out your and their differences in a more cost effective manner. If the herd is not there to see the example they try to make of you then they lose that upside and thus want to be more efficient in processing you out.

As far as paying for college goes, many of those who get out "honorably" are still unable to afford college based just on the "support" provided by the military. Either way you get out most likely you would end up needing to take out loans and try to get grants. As long as you only got an "other than honorable" and not a "dishonorable" discharge I think even most forms of federal support are easily available.

Remember that most people who go to college never had to join the military to pay for it. You can still afford it, but you just need to be willing to take on some loans to get it done.

aaron wall on July 27, 2006 2:33 PM

Whatever dude. You are a complete ass. I am waiving the white flag on this one. Too bad you can't respect other's opinions without using smart assed answers. Just shows what a geek you are sitting at your computer. I feel sorry for the people that take your advice. You are going to screw up their lives more than the military ever has.
Again, I say,"Semper Paratus" Please do me a favor and DO NOT respond to this my last post. I have to go thank the guy working next to me that just came back from Iraq. A TRUE American HERO.

Heros kill for commodities and idiots praise them for it. Nothing new to see here. Move right along.

aaron wall on July 27, 2006 2:44 PM

Disrespectful piece of shit. I bet you were a punk to your mom too. You can't even do what someones asks of you on this site. NEW you would have to respond. You can't NOT. Heros do what their country asks and make it possible for you to sit your fat ass at your computer. Let's see if it's at all possible for you to not respond to me. Are you a gentleman Aaron? Or are you a punk? Again and again I say, "Semper Paratus" I bet you would spit on a veteran if you had the chance. Just because you could not cut it doesn't mean you get to be disrepectful to those who could.
You poor ungrateful soul.

Yes Caroline, I was talking to you. Who else do you think I was talking to? Your other personality? Your misguided patriotism reeks of ignorance and speaks volumes about you. You're all about emotions, all you're trying to do is discredit everyone else's experiences to suit your agenda. You praise the military as if it was composed of the finest men and women in the world. This is certainly not the case. The military is composed of slackers, thieves, cheats, and liars. Some of us here on this site went through experiences we couldn't recover from. Just remember this Caroline, what you have right now, your world , your life as you know it, could be gone tomorrow.

No shit James. I did not just fall of the turnip truck, ok? Of course I know it could be gone tomorrow. Emotions, well maybe. Patriotic and thankful for what I have and for the men and women who fought for this country, hell yes. There are assholes everywhere, in the military too. I never said there weren't. You highly misjudge me James. DO NOT pretend to know me. I know MANY MANY people that have had bad experiences. Not just in the military. But they don't lay blame.
I am just proud of my son.
As far as this site and Aaron wall...he had a shitty childhood and now blames the military. He could not fit in anywhere. Especially the Navy. The only reason why he is successful today is because he works alone. He is an arrogant, smart assed, disrespectful man who does not appreciate the sacrifices others made for him. I was raised in a military family, and I tell you what I am VERY thankful that I was. I had the best opportunities a kid could have. I learned 3 languages and traveled all over the world.
So, don't presume to know me James nor what I stand for. You have NO damn clue.

Hi, has anyone read my post from earlier today about my son's situation? I would appreciate any good comments.

My mistake the previoius post was for B3 Mike, not James.

Caroline on July