Damn that sucks,
I recieved an oth last year from the USMC, I am in the beginning stages of filing an appeal. I popped for weed. I was in the infantry for almost four years and graduated from multiple schools that required hundreds of hours of mental and phiscal strain. I was fucking short changed. now I hear people are getting off on their first offence.

Same thing happened to me, I even served in desert storm/shield. I was discharged after 3 years back in 92' Can I still appeal, and if so how?

I got discharged OTH for Cocaine. I refused to give up fellow Marines names, and was harrassed for 6 months and sent home Other Than Honorably. Semper Fidelis meant something to me. If I could somehow re-enlist I would, But I don't know what to do. I have heard that an OTH changes to a regular General after 6 months. Is this so... and if so can I re enlist?

Domenic...I just read up on what you thought was true, but I have bad news. When you recieve an OTH discharge, it is NOT automatically upgraded after 6 months. You have to spend lots of money and time to achieve the upgrade.

I looked even further into the discharge laws. You have 15 yrs to submit an form DD 293 to possibly get an upgrade and then after 15yrs you have to go before a military correction board, or something like that. By that time, most people could give a shit anyways. But if you want to get a start on a hearing, I suggest printing out the form and submitting it.

I guess i'm in the same boat as you guys. Get this, I was 3yrs and 9 months into my 4yr contract in the Marine Corps. I received a OTH for Disobeying a lawful order. But when it comes down to it, I was given the boot for breaking restriction. Ain't that some crap.I guess it doesnt pay to be PMO.

I'm in the same boat with you guys. I recieved an OTH after popping positive on a piss test. Some friends and I were on liberty two months into our deployment when we shared a couple joints. We were all frist time offenders and had excellent records. we all ended up getting the boot. My average eval at that point was 3.7 and I had never been in any trouble before that. I have been lying to my employer since 1995 and he has never bothered to check.I've even passed two security checks. So I agree why rat yourself out chances are they will never know. Matt

Whats up? Well anyways i got kicked out for drinking underage. In japan. i recived a general under honorable cicumstances; i would like to know what i need to do to get it upgraded to an honorable because i was found a dependent alcohallic, medicly.I was the same befor i joined the navy. so that would be a medical condition that i had prior to enlisting, whitch should mean that i should have gotten a honorable medical discharge. but insted i got a pattern of miss conduct general discharge, code RE4. if anyone has information let me know BTW FTN.

I think for any discharge upgrade(marines or navy), you have to go to the Naval Board of Corrections. If I remember correctly you have to do a lot of community service and keep a steady job. And you can't get in trouble for ANYTHING! Then after a year, the board reviews your case and then they decide. But 96% of the time they DO NOT upgrade your discharge. I was in the Marines and received an OTH after 3 yrs of active duty. The only time i ever smoked while I was in, i got caught. It wasn't worth it. I was an administrator so I had access to orders, memorandums, SEVNAV's, and MCO's. If you need the paperwork, i will be glad to send it to anyone.

is a medical discharge an honorable discharge?

How long were you in when you got a medical discharge?

I am about to get discharged from the navy for positive urinalisis. Most likely an OTH slight possibility of getting a general. I need some honest answers however. How much has this type of discharge affected your civilian life. Do all of you lie about your discharge? Any advice on what I shpould do? Thanks

Back in '92 I was given an OTH from the USN. It could've been alot worse though. It started as insubordination, then a charge of simple assault on a senior officer. While in a TPU unit in Great Lakes, I left. I came home for 33 days, flew back to GL, turned myself in, and with the help of a civilian attorney (not a public defender) I had on retainer, I was charged with misconduct, not desertion or any other charges. I was discharged 45 days later. In 1997, I had my discharge upgraded to General with the help of my state rep and congressman Tim Holden. Try your elected officials, they all do favors for other gov't officials. Good Luck.

Joey Murphy, don't look into this too hard. A lot of people get their discharges upgraded through elected gov't officials (state reps, senators, congressmen, etc). There's a way around alot of the procedures, you just have to look. You don't even need to spend alot of money, either.

Iwas booted from the army in 2002, popped positive for pot. I had my oth turned to a general to. My parents talked to our state rep, he said he'll look in to it. A month latr, he called and told me to call the congressmans office. in november of 2003 my discharge was upgraded. You know what the sad part is? I work for the USPS as a letter carrier, its a FEDERAL job, i even got it with my oth discharge, so much for background checks.

I just wanted to know any info about adminstration sparation from the Navy because I was interested in any info because of my current status in the military based on a bad decision.

Hey, I having a hard time tring to upgrade my discharge. I popped with 6 months left in my contract and the said thing was that I was drunk ans did some coke. I was a first timer that was the sad thing.the master at arms told me that if I did not admitt to it that I would get court martialed , so I did I wrote a statment. This is not the person I am but it's being three years and I'm working on putting it all together. I need advise on what do to (not the paper work) but on who to talk with,and what to say. I'll fly to washington just so they will here me out,but I just need hope from someone that it is possible and how long should it take. And if there is someone out there that can help or direct me to the right place I would appreciate it so much.

I received an oth from the Army in 1988 for a bad piss test. I am looking for any resources that you have, web sites or #'s, to help me look into the inpact or what I can do to change the discharge

My husband got a DUI on base and the navy is giving him the run around. They just sent him to restriction for 2 weeks. They told him if he decided not to show up for work then he would be kicked out for sure and given other than honorable discharge.
Any advise would be helpful. Thanks.

I am in the process of going through an admin sep board for positive ua for coke. I gave the NCIS agent my statement about this guy who gave me a ciggarrette dipped into liquid cocaine substance. Weird thing is that i'm actually innocent of using intentionally.The NCIS agent went and got a signed statement from the guy i went to school with that i didn't have any knowledge of the cocaine being in my possession. I'm in the process of doing undercover work with NCIS, and even checked into a rehab for 28 days just to prove that i'm not a drug abuser or user . if anybody has experienced this or has any advice to give me so i can be retained in the navy i sure would appreciate. Thank you

Can you be recalled to active service with an Other Than Honorable Discharge?

No, you can't be recalled to active service with an OTH only an honorable.

from what I have seen how you are processed depends upon whether or not your chain of command likes you.

one guy on my submarine got in trouble for using cocaine and it was not that big of a deal. I was a horrible person, so bad that they had to destroy my most recent evaluation prior to processing me.

look for errors in your paperwork. they fuck that up like clockwork. don't let them know, but spend the money to have a lawyer look over your paperwork.

i'm getting discharged for a drug pop and i think i'm going to get a general discharge. is this really that bad of a discharge? do employers check for the reason of discharge if i do mention my military service?

the fact that I got offered a job handling chemical weapons for the government should tell you that their discharge really does not mean that much other than what effects it may have on college stuff.

if you reenlisted and got an honorable discharge with over 3 years of service in prior to the later general drug discharge I think you still get those benefits too. it was that way when I was in, but am not certain if it is still that way. I would check for more guidance on that though if I were still in.

best o luck
aaron

I really am tired of the Navy so much I have 14 months left and my life is just screwed up because I need to be at home in Tampa (where my wife and life is) instead of Jax. I got accepted to a really kickass college and I have a small business that is really picked up, the thing that is holding me down is the damn Navy. I really don't care for the VA crap, the college money is the only reason holding me down, I am not caring any more about the GIBILL and am willing to finish paying for college myself. Does any one know how I can get myself a General? Could I admit to DAPA that I have a drug problem (I don't) and let them send me to rehab or something will they give me a general? Does it really even matter? I need out. I'm tired of it, oh yea I can't get an early out because I am eligible for and SRB. I'm aggravated and ready roll home.

HELLO IM MIKE I WAS ON THE USS BUNKER HILL CG-52
I HAD A POSITIVE PISS TEST FOR METHAMPEDAMINE
GOT A REDUCTION TO E-1 45/45
1/2 PAY TIMES 2
OTH FROM NAVY
BUT I WISH TO REENLIST
CAN ANY ONE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey i got out of the army, on a oth, about a year ago. basically i had been in for less than 3 years and was going up to the promotion board for e-5 within days, oh btw i was 19 at this time. so anyway i get put on this detail with a bunch of rag-bags and i think to myself "no f'nin way im doing this s***work." so long story short, I tell the NCOIC, batt. CSM, I cannot complete the detail, my comp. cmdr. calls on the phone, and screaming at me. I was told by the CSM not to go anywhere, but my cmdr told me to go back, the SDNCO wouldnt let me leave so i got hit up with disobeying a direct order from a C.O.
the next day they tried to get me to do some more shit work, i tell this NCO i cannot comply. basically, from friends i had that worked in battalion/brigade lvls, where all the talking goes on at, I was told Im going to pensacola for 30 days. I ended up leaving for 31 days came back, and put a chapter 10 in, I was out within 2 weeks. problem is, maybe its just me, but I cant get a job for shit man, im working on going into the navy reserves. but we'll see. my congressman could care less, and forget washington. so basically Im stuck, I got no job, no future it seems, i been living off my brother for a year, and I'm giving up hope. Ive written everyone you can write, called everyone you can call. I dont know what to do. For someone that had no history of bad conduct, no drug use, etc etc, and my commander just gave me a full 150 on my promotion counseling (which never happens), they really fucked me up. b.t.w.. I was and air traffic controller, a damn good one too, but federal jobs and even contract jobs wont even look at me. I see people talking about getting job requests from quasay-military jobs and wonder, wtf? how is this going so horribly for me, yet people are actually offering you jobs? please email me (keep the flames to a minimum) if you have any advise, or are in the same boat, i can tell you all the paths ive tried to take, maybe they'll pan out for you.

Can anyone get any info or #'s to try and get my oth upgrade. Please.

hi, i am 19 and recently i popped on a drug test. I popped for cocain. I hopefully will get a OTH but i dont know. Can any one tell me if my life is ruined? im so young and i want to grow to be old and have a good and healthy life. Is that possible. Pease respond

email address: surfer6702@yahoo.com
thanks js

My husband was in the Navy, and while he was away I got pregnant, I had a terrible pregnancy, and they thought I miscarried, my husband and I were distraught. I went back to the doctor because I felt that I was still pregnant, and I was. I told my husband, but the doctor’s said that it would be a slim chance that I and the baby would survive. My husband asked for leave, and since he had just returned from leave 2 months prior. They refused his chit to leave. Well he was sick with the idea that something might happen with me and the baby while he was away stationed in California, and that he would not be here with me. So he left, he went UA, and stayed with me for the remainder of the pregnancy, and was going to turn himself in once he knew the baby and I were safe, when I was 9 months, The Navy came down to Texas, and arrested him, and threw him in the Brig for 2 months. He did not get to see his first born delivered, but God was good, we were okay. Well he received an OTH for leaving, even though we had letters we sent to the Navy during his punishment phase, Doctor Reports, Medical reports, etc.
Now my husband is having the worse time finding a regular job, some have done Military background checks on him even though he chose to leave that information off the application. How can he repair his life? I feel guilty for everything, because he is unable to be a productive member of society, he has to live with the shame of all this, and he did it for me and his son. His son passed away shortly afterwards at 9 mos with SIDS, which was extremely hard on us. If he was in the Navy, he might have not had the chance to spend the 8 mos with his son. Any help?

I recently just tested positive for cocaine on a urinalysis. I admitted to the charge, which I know I shouldn't have. I received 45/45 1/2 months pay x 2, and they are processing me out of the Navy. They are trying to give me an OTH, but I have requested an Admin. Seperation board. I have four questions. 1) What are my chances of getting a General Discharge from the Admin board, and 2)If I do get the OTH how will it effect my life after the Navy, 3) what are my chances of getting it upgraded 4) Does anyone know if there is anyway the VA will still give me the GI bill? I have less then a year left in the Navy. I haven't been charged with anything else, while I have been in. I was also a really good worker and considered to be a good sailor while I was here. If anyone has any anwers for me I would really appreciate your help. Email me @ clarkwr@ogden.navy.mil

Hi William
if your chain of command wanted to look out for you and cared for you then you probably would have had a good chance of doing well.

the 45/45 is interesting because most scumbag commands insist on the 60/60 to ensure they make as much of an example as they can out of you.

if you reelisted after a few years on I think that first enlistment may have had an associated honorable discharge that locks in your benefits. if not you are out of luck.

your chances of a general are all dependant on whether people who are "really important" (in real life more like really petty) think you were a "team player" (which in real life means you kissed a ton of ass)

the lawyer who represented me was given less than favorable reviews in the navy because he actually defended the people he was supposed to defend.

kinda goes to show you what a fucked up place the navy is.

my suggestion as to the effects of your discharge... just do not mention it or lie about it. I tried playing honest and nobody wanted to hire me. First company I failed to mention the navy to brought me on as management.

had I not quit working for them I would have likely ran the entire regional office within 6 months of being employed there.

I can give you a few more funny kickers to my terms of employment but I do not want to ruin the good deal for other people.

I made a website about how horrible the navy is and learning how to promote it I became a successful internet marketer.

There is a reason you this page and were able to post your comments into it ;)

best of luck

just don't take their bullshit with you as something that ruins your life.

perhaps if military suicide were less common and the leaders were a bit more intelligent I could see how they are right...but they are idiots and suicide is common due to high stress and dumb leadership.

In the next year or two I intend to set up a scholorship (paying out of my own pocket) for people who got kicked out of the navy.

Just FYI I got an oth I'd heard about people getting back in, but it takes some work. As long as you didn't get out for drugs or alcohol you can contact an active reserveist and at some points they take re3's, and re4's back in but you have to do active reserves to get an honorable than you can either get out or go full active duty. They also like to see some volunteer work make sure you don't get in trouble etc.

Hey most of you got screwed. I smoked weed and pissed hot on purpose to get kicked out, and my asshole commander knew it and barried it! Then they tried to fuck with me mentally and physically. They were going to try and screw me in the end with as much punishment as possible. Like a dishonrable discharge and prison time at levenworth. But I got the last laugh. I whent over all my commands head straight to the Lt. Colonel and said I was gay. I was Honorably dicharged a week later. Taught all those corrupt fuckoffs. I was in the 101st Airborne Infantry and I gave my heart and soul. Then the bastards in my unit tryed to screw me, and thats why I'm not their and they all are sweating in the Iraq desert. I feel for all of you and wish you had got a better hand like me. Sometimes in life you have to take the better hand. Don't let the world screw you anymore. Fuck the lies, stand up and stick it to everyone who tries to screw you, even the U.S Government.

Hi everyone......I would just like to share my story with you...;.
I enlisted in the USN on Dec 7th 1999. While I was in the Navy of course the drinking increased, (how else are we supposed to deal with the stress of the fucking Navy?). I checked myself into CAAC in Sep of 01 after finding out that my best friend back home had gotten killed in a car accident and of course since it was not a FAMILY member I could not get granted emer. leave, needless to say I went downhill pretty fast. Like I said I checked myself in to treatment went through it and stayed sober for a year and a half. To make a long story short we had a command sweep about 2 yrs later and out of 1500 people my fiance and I were to only 2 to pop on our piss tests when I physically saw at least 100 others popping x also. There was a lot of different occurances that led up to this final factor. It was mem. day weekend, there was a huge party ended popping some x and got kicked out. I know that NCIS was trying to fuck me from day one for some reason. They pulled me in for a "security clearance" when nobody in my division knew anything about it and we all know that you have to be recommended by someone for that. They brought me in there and totally drilled me about everything...remember, this is about a month BEFORE the command sweep. I feel like I was set up...actually I know that I was setup. I knew that I had popped some x, yes i knew that, so while we went in to piss in a cup I dipped my in the toilet to water it down,....and I still popped. Am I crazy or does all of this seem a little fucked up...and then come to find out that my girl in texas(she was the CO's yoeman) popped on a piss test and was let off??????) I would love to hear what everyone thinks about this

Hi Jill, now that hes been discharged he can kick that guys ass at the local bar!

I joined the Corp in 93 spent a year inactive. 2.5 years into my service as a CPL in 2nd LAR BN I popped on a piss test and was booted out with an OTH. What's fucked up is I had NEVER been in trouble.
I'm doing fine now have had a solid job for the past 5 years as a computer technician and I also work as a Mototcycle riding Coach.
Don't let them basterds get you down as long as you keep your service to yourself and stay out of trouble noone will be the wiser.
I'm thinking of reenlisting in the Army as SF..but I can't with my OTH. Has anyone been able to reenlist with an OTH??

Chad

I got totally screwed by one of our own. I am totally ashamed to this day, and would give up everything just to be back. I received an OTH in May and my EAS was in June. Pattern of misconduct so they say. I got NJP for a bad check, which had already been paid. They went to NavyFed and got my records, and sent me to NJP again again for a check that was from at least a year prior. I had a daughter at daycare, and got restricted to the barracks. With my child as their weapon, I was politely convinced to ask for an Admin Discharge. Was basically guarantedd by my SgtMaj that I would get a General Discharge, under Honorable conditions at worst. But llok what I got 2 weeks later, an OTH. I was allowed to get off restriction once I turned in my request. My 1stSgt and CO recommended an OTH and got it. The 1st Sgt was just pissed because he coulnd't knock the boots. I hate them all, but I heard my CO got his in Desert Storm, shot in the Ass. I worked in S-4 and got the 1st Sgt wife before they got me though. I turned in the Paperwork confirming that she failed her last two PFT's and she was forced out as she was a GySgt. So I got some relief. But even with the assholes, I love the Corps, will till the day I day. It's in me and will be forever.

Grow up, quit your whining, and act like adults, all of you. You broke the rules, got caught, and paid the consequences. If you haven't figured that out, then you're destined for more trouble.

"Grow up, quit your whining, and act like adults, all of you."

go fuck yourself

I'm going to get an OTH, for altering my ID to be 21. I just had DRB and all my chiefs want me kicked out. With an OTH, is it hard for me to get a job? Or is it only hard to get a government job? Will i be able to get an upgrade to a general in 6 months, like everyone else says? Does anyone have any tips for me before i go to XOI? And captain's mast?

I recieved a general discharge for minor disiplinary infractions from the airforce 5 years ago and am very interested in reenlisting in the military. Does anyone know if this is possible, and how to go about it..
Any info would be appreciated

i recently tested positive for coke an de on a recent piss test. curently i'm going through the whole ncis investigation b.s., i was wondering if anybody has any experiences with these idiots? i have a real good feeling that they are playing games and such with me. i'm statinoed in japan and today they told me that they were going to have me thrown in japanese jail for doing drugs! that sounds like a load if i've ever hear one. doesn't the SOFA come into play somewhere? isn't it entrapment if they lie to me to get me to tell them information? also, does anybody have any first hand experiences with a positive piss test without a discharge? i'm the sailor of the year at my command (kinda ironic, huh?), and before this, i was the "golden boy". my chain will support me, do i have a chance and if so, what do i need to do?

I WAS BOOTED OUT OF THE NAVY WITH AN OTH DISCHARGE 3 YEARS AGO FOR TESTING POSITIVE FOR COCAINE.I HAVE REALLY TURNED MY LIFE AROUND AND WANT TO JOIN A POLICE ACADEMY TO HAVE A CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT MY TYPE OF DISCHARGE WILL PREVENT ME FROM THIS CAREER.WHAT ARE MY CHANCES OF GETTING MY TYPE OF DISCHARGE CHANGED? I HAVE ALSO BEEN TOLD TO NOT MENTION I WAS IN THE NAVY.DOES ANYONE KNOW IF A BACKGROUND CHECK WOULD INCLUDE THIS?THANKS FOR ANY INFO.

I'm in the Marine Corp. reserves and I may be looking at a OTH for UA. I have a great job and a great amount of bills. I cant aford to go over to Iraq for a year. I enlisted before all of this happen and joined for the displin and core values. I have 14 months left in my contract, with a outstanding record. I need to know if my employer will find out about my OTH and if so how if any way can I hind it from them. I have not gone UA yet but this the only way I know of to keep from going. If anyone has any other things they might know of to get a discharge let me know.

hey stop being ignorant asses! Don't accept a OTH discharge if you don't have to! Say you are gay and you will get a honorable discharge!
Just play it off right. Don't get screwed with a OTH after all your hard work and suffering. Think about it can u live with a honorable and have said u were gay, ore a OTH?

Signed up for active duty in the Army for four years, but less than a year into my contract I was given a chapter 5-18 due to unforseen circumstances. I was then placed into the IRR, but was later told that I could be recalled to active duty by my previous unit. Is this true?
If so, what are my chances of actually being called back to active duty?

Hey, I got an OTH from the Navy in February, I popped positive for meth. I stayed out in Cali for a while and couldn't get work out there, so I came home to New York. I can't get any work out here either. Luckily my girlfriend has a good job and has been pulling the weight, but I want that to stop. I have been doing odd jobs, mostly helping people move, cutting lawns, etc. just for some cash. I can't keep that up, its just not enough money. Not even close. I'll work on upgrading my discharge soon enough, but right now finding work is priority. Does anyone have any advice on what I'm supposed to do? Should I just not even mention the Navy on applications? I don't know, I'm running out of options and patience.

I am trying to get out because I am not suited for the Navy and the CO said Hell no. So I messed up and told him that I have a fraudulent enlistment. Am I going to get an OTH? They still need me to prove it so I can get out. But now that I think of it I could probably try for undue hardship at home because my mom is coming down with neuropothy in her legs and my grandma who we live with is constantly borrowing money and getting in debt. They need me at home. I am just past my 180 days I am only at like 200 or so so I couldn't get a failure to adapt from this ass of a CO. I really am not that scared of an OTH but I would rather not get one. What do you think the chances of getting an OTH are going to be? What should I do? I am not suited to this lifestyle. I wanted to go up and ask to be transferred to the reserves but he just grilled me and I lost my motive. What can I do now?

Why don't any of the questions about renlistment get answered, or those about can you get a civilian goverment job wit an OTH???????

"Why don't any of the questions about renlistment get answered, or those about can you get a civilian goverment job wit an OTH???????"

I have not answered them because I do not know the answers to them and would not be interested in obtaining said jobs.

I did get called and offered a job as a civilian working for the Army taking care of chemical weapons after I got my other than honorable discharge. I never followed up on it though.

I was in the navy in 1994-1996 and popped + on a wiz quiz for THC, the thing is, I have never smoked pot before or after, always got better than a 3.5 on my evals, and Always paid attention to detail. I was at a party with a lot of other people Officers and Enlisted, we all were a little drunk, OK really drunk some one passed a joint around and I tried some, honestly, it didn’t do anything for me, I never got "high", never felt the effects, just coughed a lot. Then I decided I never wanted to do it again,
A week later, I had to take a wiz quiz, I didn’t think much of it until another week went buy and I got called into the security office and was told that I had popped + on the wiz quiz for THC. So I TOLD THE TRUTH and said I got drunk and tried a little bit of the weed. They gave me two choices, I could be kicked out with 30 days suspension or 3 days bread and water, naturally I picked the thirty days suspension, but with all of the 4-hour nights while on watch during my suspension, I missed a muster and they gave me 3 days bread and water on top of the suspension.
More over, some of the other people who popped + that were at the party lied during the court marshal and said that they were fed brownies with weed in them, they got to stay in with a slap on the wrist. My advice, if you want to save face, don’t tell the truth, if you get popped for weed, tell them that you didn’t know the cookies were laced.
Needles to say I got an OTH and I think that I was unfairly treated, I volunteered to served my country, and I served Honorably. I would like a government job now almost 10 years later but I don’t know what I should do.

Hey Y'all,

As for my Army career, you can say that my chain of command and I had a falling out. I had new CO, who thought that an infraction was worth a Field Grade Article 15 when I thought it should have stayed at a company level. The problem I had was I didn't lie about it like the 7 other soldiers did. I practiced that whole "Army Integrity" Bullshit and they were looking to stick it to me. It was fairly political. I thought I was getting screwed, so I demanded a Court Martial. The offense was such a joke and demanding a court martial for it SHOCKED my whole chain of command. We went at it for two months and I didn't budge. Nobody ever demands a Court Martial over petty stuff. I wanted the whole show...three judge panel, lawyers & court room. As it turns out, I embarrassed my chain of command over how far the whole circus went and was given the option of a Chapter 10 which is a request for discharge in lieu of a Court Martial. I obviously did the chapter 10 because I was facing a felony conviction on my record, jail time & a dishonorable discharge. There were so many reasons why I did what I did in regards to demanding a Court Martial. I was sooooooo pissed at the way they handled the whole affair I was willing to go to jail and screw my whole life up....they thought I was NUTS. It got to the point when they stripped me of my rank in a company formation, my platoon sergeant refused to strip me of it because he thought it was bullshit and agreed with me. I had guys in the formation from my platoon rip off their rank and throw it on the ground to show their disgust at what they did to me. I can go on & on about the whole thing, but I stood my ground and I refused to be somebody's little BITCH and I got so much respect and support from my peers it was really touching....hence I'm not really military material.

Oh my offence by the way was drinking three beers on an R&R trip in Northern Iraq. I had NEVER been in trouble up to that point & was looked upon as a good soldier by my chain of command. After the incident they tried to have me sign some back dated documents saying I was counseled before I went on that R&R trip about the no drinking rule....I didn't sign them of course and then the Army preaches about all this integrity....BULLSHIT!!!!! During my time in Iraq, I know of a Sergeant Major needing to be helped to bed, three newly appointed captains celebrating and making spectacles of themselves, not to mention the numbers of GIs drinking while on duty. I was on R&R and my weapon was locked away in an armor room. None of these people got into any major trouble and my chain of command want to hit me with a field grade, I couldn't just take it & drive on with all the B.S..

What steps should I take to get my discharge upgraded to a general discharge.

hey none of u are goin to give me some shit about saying i was gay and getting honorably discharged? hahhahahahahaha

Hey James,
Stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Oh and congrats on not only being a liar, but an asshole as well. They must be missing you.

Peace

hey have any of you all had any problems with a general discharge?

I was recently discharged from the Army with an oth for, like most of you, poppin on a piss test for weed. The thing about my situatin is once I was told I was getting discharged I came down with that all familiar "dont give a fuck attitude". I ended poppin on like ten more test because I refused to stop smoking as it was the only way for me to deal with deppression and keep from blowing my head off, or my co's or 1sgt's head off really. My unit was so messed up that it took them nearly 9 months to get my chapter paperwork right. Well you know what they tried to do to me during that time, make me bend over and take it. So I went awol for a year. Fuckem. Myself and about 10 others in my unit going through the same shit made up our own company motto, "NO VASOLINE". With an oth it has been very hard for me to find work. When I look back on things I wish I could have handled the situation differntly, but hey I can only play the hand I was dealt. So for any soldiers out there that have to take it with NO VASOLINE my advice to you is to try and stick it out the bennifits to me outweigh stigma of an oth. Definately dont try the drug way to get out. Like many on this site say just try to tell them youre gay. Also never settle take the shit as high up the chain of command as you can even if you have to talk to the president himself. Make copies of all your paperwork and try and gather as much proof against your chain as you can because if you dont try and watch your own back, noone else will. I admire this site and it great to be able to vent with people who are in the same sitiuaion. Best of luck to all who may be in need of some help.

My husband and I both have OTH discharges for going UA. We both had the opportunity to stay in but we decided against it because I was pregnant. We took the OTH instead of being court martialed and potentially facing a bad conduct discharge which could also give us a felony.

He has had no problem getting jobs, even when we were UA he worked. He has told the truth to his employers about being in the navy at one time and not having a "great" discharge but chooses to leave it at that.

Although our discharges are basically stuck this way, I suggest if you have any questions on if yours is to find someone nice at the veterans office, which is what we did. Also the form used to upgrade your discharge is Form DD 293.

in 2000 i got an oth from the marine corps reserve. in 2003 i enlisted in the army national gaurd for a try one year in the gaurd program. after i did my year i chose not to reenlist. so feb. 2004 i got an honorable discharge from the gaurd. on 2 oct. 2004 i got a letter saying i've been called to active duty for operation iraqi freedom. when i return home from active duty with the army will i be able to go back to the marine corps reserves

>I'm going to get an OTH, for altering my ID to be 21. I just had DRB and all my chiefs want me kicked out.

One kid in my division was making fakes for tons of people. The fakes were so authentic looking that when asked to pick out which one was fake many people guessed the wrong one.

The only way he got caught was because a kid got too drunk and rolled the blame off on my buddy. Like me my buddy was in school to be a nuclear reactor operator so they let him stay in (since it is hard to find people intelligent enough to do that job who actually want to be in the military).

Recruiters get double points for signing up a nuc, that should be the first tip that the job is complete shit.

My buddy later got an honorable discharge and now goes to school. I am an internet marketer and he does all my web development stuff.

I think anyone that feels they got a other than honorable discharge / raw deal should be loud about it...it is the only way to change the policies.

Most people in the military honestly do not even care about how functional the military is. They are concerned about their reputation...the military is the same way.

Thats why I made this page about getting an other than honorable discharge. Same thing with when the navy spams people with a CNAVRES 1100/8 letter...they find my site first.

Those who are asking about rejoining the military after an other than honorable discharge are reenforcing the image that the military is right and good and that you are "other than honorable."

The military is a crazy lifestyle and it is hard to adjust to normal life after you get out of the military even if you do not get an other than honorable discharge. Many of my "honorable" friends struggled to find jobs too.

Look at the 2004 presidential election. Kerry's records showed that his discharge had to be reviewed...and Bush should have got a dishonorable discharge for not even showing up.

The point is that if you go after what you really want to do and you work hard at it an other than honorable discharge can strengthen you way more than it hurts you. Right now I am financially doing well and one of my prime motivators was my other than honorable discharge.

Good post Aaron. Very inspiring and you made alot of good points. Maybe its time I started thinking more like you. Thanks for the inspiration.

all you people who think you should be able to stay in or get a general for doing drugs are morons.

the navy's policy is to separate if you knowingly did drugs. "i didn't feel the effects even though i smoked it so i didn't think i'd pop" is about the most idiotic thing I've read on this thread.

if you choose to do drugs, take the fucking consequences like a big kid. YOU KNOW WHAT THE POLICY IS. is "zero tolerance" that vague? do you think YOU will get an exception?

if you didn't want an OTH you shouldn't have done the drugs while you were in the navy. and fuck this "the navy drove me to drink" or "it is the only way i can deal with it" bullshit. some of us are on deployments with our families at home, and most of those people waiting for us at home are away from their families too. it is YOUR decision to drink or do drugs, and you need to grow up and take the consequences.

learn before you speak XYZ...

Had a guy on my boat not got in trouble for using cocaine (and still stayed in the navy) then I could understand your zero tolerance concept. The whole zero tolerance concept is about breeding ignorance, and assuming you are in the military I can see that it is working just fine.

Study what the zero tolerance policy actually means and then post your apology.

No apology from me here.

if people slip through the cracks, they're lucky. but NO ONE should expect that THEY will be that exception. you're right - everyone should get kicked out for it and not everyone does, but to complain because YOU got kicked out is ridiculous.

i'm so sick and tired of people not accepting responsibility for their actions. we had a guy come through who was an alcohol rehab failure, and he thinks he shouldn't get kicked out because "it's the command's fault". how the hell is his command responsible for his choice to bring that drink to his lips? you're all adults, stop blaming other people for YOUR failure to follow the rules.

I could respect that "you are in control of your own actions" attitude a bit more if environmental factors did not frequently lead to suicide or other forms of self destruction.

I never did illegal drugs until long after I made it to the submarine. Years before I got in trouble for using drugs I drank until I stopped breathing. What did the command do about my drinking? They ignored it until the time I did drugs while blacked out drunk and then they destroyed their own work records of me.

Now that I am out of the navy I extremely rarely use drugs (once in a few years) and have only drank too much once in the past couple years as well. ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS ARE IMPORTANT, AND WHEN YOUR CHAIN OF COMMAND IGNORES YOU WHEN YOU ASK FOR HELP AND THEN LATER DESTROYS THEIR OWN WORK RECORDS OF YOU AFTER YOU BREAK ONE OF THEIR RULES AND THEN RAILROADS YOU THEN YOU SHOULD BE PISSED AND YOU SHOULD CREATE A HIGH RANKING PAGE LIKE THIS TO COLLECT ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK.

I asked for help or for a break before I got in trouble. They told me to go fuck myself and I told them the same.

While playing along in rehab I saw on the wall that suicide was the second leading killer in the navy and few understood why. Even more sad was not only the fact that while at rehab I stopped a kid from eating a bottle full of sleeping pills, but also that the poster warning about suicide was years old.

One way or another the military is going to get feedback. If they make fucking people over the only way they can get feedback then people like me will proudly use technology to spread that message.

"Years before I got in trouble for using drugs I drank until I stopped breathing. What did the command do about my drinking?"

Are you or are you not an adult? The Navy isn't responsible for babysitting. Period.

>The Navy isn't responsible for babysitting.

It is this scumbag line of thinking that makes the military a horrible place to be. Keep in mind that I stated that I knew I had problems, I told the DAPA I was an alchoholic, and I asked my chain of command for help...I stated that I was burnt out and I could not stand that environment...and I got told to go fuck myself.

The same black and white (too stupid to see color) line of thinking that is powering your current broken logic also states that when I display problems AND ask for help that the military should not ignore it.

XYZ, I bet you were never a nuclear reactor operator on a special operations fast attack submarine who had not seen sunlight in over a month and recently had bad things happen to many family members (such as HIV, going jail for murder, and also death). Without needing any details you are judgemental. You are a nasty close minded individual.

You are right that the military does not take care of its memebers, and I am doing just fine now that I am out of their grasp. Indeed, I need no babysitter.

Even if you are an adult it is clear you do not think for yourself. You are sadly brainwashed and exactly what the military wants. BZ shipmate.

I'm hearing a lot of people who seem to have a lot of angst. I think mine may take the cake. I didn't do drugs, I didn't drive drunk, I didn't commit a felony offense. The thing I did to get kicked out was--refuse to come in off of leave because my Platoon Sgt. (Marine Corps, of course) wanted me to come clean the barracks. I really don't know how to fight this fight. I'm still in the process. Does anybody know whether an OTH definitely does affect employment outside?

By the way, I also agree with XYZ. If you did drugs, then even though I'm sorry, you knew you shouldn't have. As I'm writing this, I just wrecked my car, my fiance dumped me, and just found out about my Admin Sep package, even though I've finished four years and seven months of a five year contract--and doing drugs isn't going to help, and I know that. And I know all of you knew that when you went to boot camp, too.

Hi Deeb
sorry to hear you are going to get the bad deal. What you fail to realize in your "drugs are wrong" menatality is that some people actually did not do drugs. Some others only did drugs after they lost all faith in humanity and wanted to kill themselves.

What if somehow you find your way into the brig for not cleaning the barracks while on leave. Sucks, but it could happen. Then you would be one more "poor me" case who is whining. Truth is, the military is an employer with few legitimate feedback loops.

Many people use drugs because it is one of the few legitimate feedback loops left.

Aaron, I understand what you're saying, but they make it pretty clear--if you do it, you're gonna get fucked. Make no mistake about it. I hate the fact that the military, the Marine Corps in general is such a fucked up organization, and I'm not necessarily in disagreement with you. I even did them myself, before I joined.

At any rate, does anybody know how much, if at all, an OTH has on your post-military life? I'm debating on whether or not to go to the Board. An informed opinion, please.

And by the way, Aaron, I really like the site and what some of the people have to say on it.

The trick with an other than honorable discharge is to not mention it.

I had a ton of headhunters calling me up (did you know they usually make like 30 - 50% of your first year wage for fiding you). Once I told them that I had an other than honorable discharge they were like "oh darn, better luck next life."

In my opinion many of the headhunters are just blood suckers. One of the bastards even had me book reservations to a job conference that was canceled because people were worried about military people being called back to war

When I stopped mentioning the other than honorable discharge I was soon offered a job. Keep in mind that it takes most people like 3 - 6 months to get a job even if they were not other than honorably discharged and even if they were not in the military.

If you feel you were fucked over there is absolutely no reason to mention your other than honorable discharge to anyone. Most potential employers will not check your terms of discharge or mention about it.

Just talk like one of the good old boys talking to another good old boy if you are talking to headhunters. If you go for a regular job like Wal Mart or something they absolutely will not check (I got hired there about 1 day after I got my other job and I chose to stick with the one that paid 3 times as much.)

Also if you have a passion for anything and are interested in the web I would encourage you to go after it. The web is amazingly powerful and if you are willing to work hard enough and learn enough you can become your own boss.

Most specifically the navy nuclear power program and to a lesser extent the job I had after it tainted employment forever for me to where I will never again be employed by someone else...especially something like the military. In a year or two I will even write a book about it.

Aaron, I understand what you're saying, and I can see where you'd think that I might be brainwashed, but trust me...I have kids, and I demand that my children behave themselves and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY. When they do wrong - admit it and deal with it. No excuses, no blaming others for their own actions.

Sympathy? Hell yes I have sympathy. I was horribly depressed my first 3 years in the Navy. I was stationed in a remote assignment, for the first time in my life away from my family, young and in a new country, no friends, no families, no nothing. I drank, probably too much, but I do not blame the Navy for that. **I** chose to drink. It's like people who die of lung cancer and sue the cigarette manufacturers.

I'm sorry I sound heartless. I'm a very compassionate person. Really! But I don't have the patience for people blaming their poor decisions on other people.

>TAKE RESPONSIBILITY

I would say that I did that. I even wrote about it on my own website and got the page to rank for related terms in major search engines. Anyone can go to Google and find out that I got an other than honorable discharge. That is more than most people do.

My chain of command did not take responsibility for destroying their work records of me. Bet your ass I will do what I can to ensure they do. ;-)

I will write a book about it.

>**I** chose to drink.

Just like all the people who chose to commit suidide in the military because they lost all hope and got told to go fuck themselves when they asked for it - I should be dead right now.

Just like all the people who chose to have their lives ruined because they develope PTSD while in the military.

The military is not like a regular job where you can just walk away from it (unless you are Bush - who oddy enough I am strongly marketing against this election).

It is up to me to make sure people see more than numbers. I need to make sure society as a whole recognizes just how bad the military is...people should know that suicide was the second leading killer in the navy.

People should understand that it is not uncommon for an extremely high % of nuclear power students to kill themselves. A kid who lived in the room next to me did so when he got to his boat. My old roommate went pyschotic while in the navy.

here is another kicker, while in the military they offered me drugs to "make me better." All I needed was out of their fucked up organization. All better now :-)

People should know that there is no military justice. That military justice is a sack of shit ... that my lawyer was frowned upon for actually defending people ... that the same evaluations that mean so much toward your career can be lost or destroyed at the convenience of your supervisors.

The people who fucked me will be publicly known and I will make it easier for other people to give feedback. If I have to make my own large scale feedback network that makes the military a bit more functional I will.

>It's like people who die of lung cancer and sue the cigarette manufacturers.

That is a poor reference. At the age of 17 you do not sign up to be a high tech cutting edge (lie: actually 60s microprocessor technology) smoker who ABSOLUTELY MUST CONTINUE SMOKING ANY CIGARETTE, OR CIGAR, OR PIPE, OR RANDOMLY SHAPED TOBACCO HOLDING CONTAINER PLACED IN FRONT OF HIM FOR THE NEXT SIX YEARS. -- see how stupid that sounds? That is because your analogy is that far off.

>But I don't have the patience for people blaming their poor decisions on other people.

Joining the military was a poor decision. My fault. However I will use any marketing knowledge I gain to reshape the fucked uped organizations.

Some people think that this site is about or that I want a handout of some sort. That is not the case.

I would simply be content with my old CO being fired, thrown in Levenworth, and him writing a letter of appoligy to me.

I will also eventually make a full ride scholorship that pays for college for submarine nuclear reactor operators who got kicked out of the navy for using drugs.

OK, I will concede on the point that the military is not faultless. I completely agree that there are fucked up people in the military. However, I don't agree that the military, as a whole, is the problem.

"My chain of command did not take responsibility for destroying their work records of me. Bet your ass I will do what I can to ensure they do. ;-)"

This I agree with. They do need to take responsibility.

But if you think that one eval made the difference between an OTH and a general or honorable...don't. OTHs are pretty much the standard for people who use drugs. Sure, there are the ones who get by with a general who did drugs, but overall, regardless of your evals you're most likely going to get an OTH.

My issue is that I read people here saying "I chose to do drugs but i'm not willing to accept the consequences." This is what I originally posted to. Your story, your situation, I really don't know anything about. I do dislike that you lump everything military as "bad". There are a lot of really great people out there, commands who really care about their people (believe it or not). I've been taken care of very well at 2 of my 3 duty stations. I'm not a 5.0 sailor, I'm a 3.8 sailor. I don't kiss ass, I do my job and try to do it well. I also don't ask for much, and if I do wrong, I expect to get in trouble for it. I've gotten in minor trouble before and I've dealt with those consequences.

I have sympathy for all the kids who join when they're too young and immature to realize what they're doing. I think a lot of people go into it with rose colored glasses, thinking it's going to be so great and wonderful and perfect, and it's a slap in the face when they get to their ship and are mess cranking in the galley that's 90°. But you don't go UA because you feel this is "unfair", you do your job and work your way up.

>OK, I will concede on the point that the military is not faultless.

I do not need you to concede this. The fact that it is made of people means it will have faults.

>I completely agree that there are fucked up people in the military. However, I don't agree that the military, as a whole, is the problem.

That system is the problem. Those who can't see it must be being fed their own brains. Look at Abu Ghraib.

High-profile convictions of low-level soldiers involved in Abu Ghraib obscure the bigger picture: senior officers are in line for promotions and the House is pushing to legitimize torture.

>"My chain of command did not take responsibility for destroying their work records of me. Bet your ass I will do what I can to ensure they do. ;-)"

>This I agree with. They do need to take responsibility.

How do you suggest they take responsiblity for maliciously detroying their own work records of me? Those are the same sacred work records that determine whether or not one can make rank.

(Incidentally enough they fucked up prior evals and I did not make rank until like 8 months after everyone else from the same cycle because they fucked that up too - twice - and I still have the records to prove it.)

>But if you think that one eval made the difference between an OTH and a general or honorable...don't. OTHs are pretty much the standard for people who use drugs. Sure, there are the ones who get by with a general who did drugs, but overall, regardless of your evals you're most likely going to get an OTH.

That may be true. Keep in mind that not long before that incident I was the youngest person in my division and I was frequently placed in charge of my leading petty officer. In fact the chief and first class took leave at the same time with me running the division. I was on watch the day after duty September 11th during a plant temperature shift when I was also running our division that day. I was the one who did the lighting quick precritical checkoff where I pushed the commanding officer and Navsea08 out of my way to get the ship ready to go to sea.

I worked at least twice as hard as almost anyone in my division (even stood someone elses watch on Thanksgiving with a herniated disk in my back). I was damn good at my job and I was rather selfless.

They refused to let me go when I asked for help because they were afraid to lose me. In your book that might be "being a shipmate." In my book that is selfishness and greed.

>My issue is that I read people here saying "I chose to do drugs but i'm not willing to accept the consequences." This is what I originally posted to. Your story, your situation, I really don't know anything about. I do dislike that you lump everything military as "bad".

Its not everything that is bad, just the broken feedback loops. The fact that I had no input into my supervisors evals. The fact that long before I got in trouble when they fucked up my evals (not once but twice) my chain of command did not help me. The fact that when I asked for help they told me to go fuck myself. The fact that they had to destroy their own records of my performance before I could be processed speaks loudly for the crediblity of that system...there fucking is none.

>There are a lot of really great people out there, commands who really care about their people (believe it or not).

And Master Chief Myers was one of the few reasons I lasted as long as I did. The point is not that there are good people. The point is the system has broken feedback loops that make it inherently broken.

>I've been taken care of very well at 2 of my 3 duty stations. I'm not a 5.0 sailor, I'm a 3.8 sailor. I don't kiss ass, I do my job and try to do it well. I also don't ask for much, and if I do wrong, I expect to get in trouble for it. I've gotten in minor trouble before and I've dealt with those consequences.

How often were you asked to do things that you did not know how to do? Where if you don't do it they get you on dereliction of duty. Where if you do it wrong and admit what you did you go to Levenworth for violating rector safety?

Meanwhile your logs are so important and the officers go through and rewrite (rip up the old and make new copies of) the logs for an entire med run...adding stuff wherever they see fit. Dressing their logs up for inspection.

What about painting underway in non emergency situations? Assigning an entire watch crew to be paint team before inspection? No fresh air. That is my mind that is getting fucked up by those paint fumes? Huffing paint. Isn't that forcing me to use drugs? So drugs are only ok if they are forced on you against your will? Only if they are harmful with no enjoyment?

>I have sympathy for all the kids who join when they're too young and immature to realize what they're doing. I think a lot of people go into it with rose colored glasses, thinking it's going to be so great and wonderful and perfect, and it's a slap in the face when they get to their ship and are mess cranking in the galley that's 90°.

You know what is funny. Being a nuc is so damn bad that going up to crank is a treat. You can ask anybody on my old boat how happy I was while I was cranking right before I left that boat.

>But you don't go UA because you feel this is "unfair", you do your job and work your way up.

It is not a system about working your way up. It is a system set up to hold people down. Why do you think they pay so little off the start? Keep you poor, make it hard to get out.

It is not a system about working your way up. The fact that they did not care to help me when they fucked up my evals - twice. They did not care to help when I asked for it. They did destroy my evals before processing me.

Its a shitty fucking organization with broken / non existant feedback loops. How would you feel to be one of the fall guys from Abu Ghraib who were ordered to mess with the prisoners and are now being made specticals? Where the supervisors who told them to do it are being advanced for a job well done.

Current US Military System = COMPLETE GARBAGE.

Those who do not understand that never will.

I can see that you have zero interest in anything I have to say, and since this is your blog, I respect that and leave.

Your opinions are that, and mine are as well. I happen to be in a military that has treated me well and that has done nothing but good for me and my family.

I'm sorry that your experience was bad, and I'm glad that you've moved on and are successful at what you do. The military is certainly not for everyone.

>I can see that you have zero interest in anything I have to say, and since this is your blog, I respect that and leave.

How would you feel to be one of the fall guys from Abu Ghraib who were ordered to mess with the prisoners and are now being made specticals? Where the supervisors who told them to do it are being advanced for a job well done.

That is the current military system. Not talking just about me. Talking about the lack of feedback loops. Bad business do not have good feedback loops. The military does not have good feedback loops.

I'm am writing this post for anyone out there who may need some inspiration. I posted here a few weeks back with my story of how and why I got kicked. After a long year of working shit jobs and trying to get my life back together, I have finaly recieved a job offer doing the same thing I was doing in the military, but for much better pay of course! Like Aaron has said many times before on this site:

>If you feel you were fucked over there is absolutely no reason to mention your other than honorable discharge to anyone. Most potential employers will not check your terms of discharge or mention about it.

Just talk like one of the good old boys talking to another good old boy if you are talking to headhunters. If you go for a regular job like Wal Mart or something they absolutely will not check (I got hired there about 1 day after I got my other job and I chose to stick with the one that paid 3 times as much.)

Also if you have a passion for anything and are interested in the web I would encourage you to go after it. The web is amazingly powerful and if you are willing to work hard enough and learn enough you can become your own boss.

I wrote back how I was inspired by words similar to these and no more than a week later I got a call and was hired over the phone without even being asked about my time in the military. I'm not here to preach to anyone but I also feel my faith in God had alot to do with this. I would like to once again thank Aaron for coming up with such an awsome site where people can voice their opinions and find good information about things that are happening to lots of soldiers everyday. In the last month, this website has helped me more than my discharging unit did in a years time. Thanks again good luck to all who may need it.

good job Ricky!!!

I was 19 when discharged w/an OTH, I got popped for THC in the piss test. Im not proud yet feel I wasnt given a chance. I was only in service for like 5 months. BULLSHIT!!, I tried the "upgrading my discharge" crap, I even requested a hearing to hell with letter writing. Guess what they wrote me back. Ha Ha Ha,,better luck next time...Does anybody have any suggestions on other ways to upgrade my discharge, some people say state reps?
who? what? when? & how?

Thanks everyone!

What a thread... Thanks, Aaron, for allowing a place to vent, and inquire, about this subject.

I'll describe my experience, 'cause I've not read anything like it so far.

I served in the Marine Coprs in the early-to-mid '80s. I loved boot camp, and couldn't wait to start school and join the FMF. My MOS was avionics, and during school, I hit a low. I hated sitting in a cubicle all day, studying theory and schematics. It's not that I didn't have the aptitude to comprehend or assimilate--I didn't have the patience.

I voluntarily dropped after 6 months and joined the infantry. What I didn't expect, but ended up getting, changed my life forever.

My brother was a grunt, and always ribbed me for being a "winger." He went to boot camp, then ITS, and then into the fleet with the same group of guys. He spent his entire four years with buddies, enduring the good and the bad with them.

In contrast, I joined a crew of guys that were no where near what my brother had. I was small in comparison, and was a hell of a lot smarter.

For the next 6 months, I was fucked with constantly. Personal shit stolen, harassed & threatened. Being on firewatch was the shits. I learned not to carry my wallet anymore, because the fuckers from the other platoons would steal it from me.

After a hump, my entire backpack, with all my shit in it, was stolen, and all my Gunny did was get someone else's and then give it to me.

That kind of crap went on constantly. I was so full of hate and anger, and knew I couldn't beat these dudes asses myself, but you damn sure didn't rat.

After a while, I had enough. I bought a box of 5.56 while in Oceanside one day, and brought it back to the barracks (open squad bay). I didn't know when I'd do it, but I was either gonna scare the fuck out of them, or shoot them.

A few days later, I got busted. My platoon commander, along with my platoon sergeant, called me out, and had the box. I fessed up, and told them what I had thought about doing, and all he (Lt.) did was suggest I see the base quack. He also said that if they wanted to persue it, they could have me put into corrective custody. Me! That was not an option.

I laid it all out in front of the doc, and all he did was tell me to try "working out." Try "getting some exercise." I was a fucking grunt! We got plenty of exercise!

I wasn't religious, but I figured I'd talk to the base clergy. All that dude did was agree I had anger issues.

Our battalion was set to go on a float (11th Marine Amphibious Unit, '85) for 6 months, and I knew I didn't want to be stuck with those fuckers for that long on an amphibious ship. So I left.

Eight months later, I went back to Pendleton, on my own. I couldn't take hiding anymore. I loved the fact that I was a Marine, but I absolutely hated who I was with.

All they asked me was if I wanted to go to Court Martial for the UA, and possibly face prison, or take an OTH, waive all my VA benefits, and get out. Single, no kids, I said O.K., and after 30 days of the "D" platoon, I was out.

By the way, those "D" guys were the best. A former Recon Marine, a couple of E-5s, an E-6 (on second enlistments), and other really good guys. Next to boot camp, that was the best month of my time in the Corps.

No one made me drop out of avionics. No one made me leave. I did it on my own, and I have to live with the consequences. But I know I'll never be able to proudly boast I was a Marine.

Later, I looked up stuff, wishing there would suddenly be a provision that would have allowed me to re-enlist, but there wasn't. Even though I now had a career, I tried to get in during Desert Storm, but the recruiter wouldn't even talk to me. I tried talking to an Army National Guard recruiter, but he said I should get over it and move on.

I've done well in the long run. I make a great salary, have great kids, and will retire from 20 years of the fire service in just over 3 years.

I didn't lie on my application; they just didn't really care. I'm a decent, hard working person, and have never been accused of a crime my entire life.

All I'm guilty of is being too undisciplined and impatient to complete a school that would have paid off with incredible returns and opportunities, and of not handling my predicament in the infantry better.

I never tried to change my discharge; I earned every bit of it, and take responsibility for it. I can't blame my lieutenant, the base clergy or psychiatrist for my reactions to my situation. I thought about it, and disregarding any impact it would have on my entire future, make a conscious, deliberate choice.

Since then, I've served my community and my family to the best of my ability. I am a great father, and a proud firefighter/paramedic; but nothing will ever erase the shame of my personal actions when I was a Marine.

Sometimes I ponder what I'd loose if I were to try and get in now, with the war and troop shortages going on. I'm not a chicken-shit; many things in my career have put me in danger. I would loose all the pay and benefits that I've earned for my family over the last 17 years, and I would make their lives extremely tough. So I know it's never going to happen.

In retrospect, was it worth it? No-fucking-way. Would I do it different if given another chance? Hell yes. But, I'd eventually come back home and find that cute little thing to have my kids with again!

>>Personal shit stolen, harassed & threatened.

That is not uncommon. On the submarine we had lots of that...cartons of cigarettes, wallets, clothes, etc.

I'm in the process of getting an OTH from the Navy. I popped for cocaine and received the usual max punishment. There are a few things I wanted to clear up after reading a lot of these messages....
1) If you know you did it and it came back positive don't waste your time with an Admin Sep Board, 9 out of 10 times you'll get an OTH if it was drugs.
2) To get your OTH upgraded to a General after six months isn't automatic. You need to put a request through D.C. to have your case reviewed and either be there in person or have a lawyer represent you.
3) If you are on your second enlistment you do retain your GI Bill if you were honorably discharged from the first enlistment.
These are only some of the facts I know, but calling your Congressman and other different approaches also sound like good choices worth a try. Hope this helps somebody.

I am in the process of being booted out of the navy with an oth. But you know what I am not mad about it all. The navy was definately for me and I am glad I am getting out. but i do have one question do i still get so va benefits like the home loan and can i apply for unemployment. will this stop me from being able to apply for federal aid for tuition to go to college. please reply.

You're eligible for almost all VA benefits, but the VA has to approve you on a case by case basis. Unemployment only comes when you've held a job (for however long) after you've been discharged from the Navy. In other words, you can't get kicked out for an OTH then go straight to the unemployment office and start collecting a check. The Navy was smart enough to cut that off from everyone. So contact you're nearest VA and see what's available.

well i was sent home in 7/1976 with boder line nuts.aka ptsd i was in the usmc recon i got a good discharge but the dam va is still trying to fuck me, all of this is in black and white thair papers not mine thay don,t give a dam about us hell thay served on time thay are under grad lawers, chins, camel jockeys. you name it, when you guys went in, did thay not tell you that you the property of the us.gov and if you got fuck up, thay wood take care of you! bull shit, but don,t give them a inch fight for that right thay said it the law says it it,s your right holdem to it,the dam layers

I am currently on the uss cowpens in yokosuka japan right now. I went to drb for underage drinking I will be sent to captains mast for sure. This is the third time i will have been sent to mast in 6 months for the same reason which the cmc said warrents a oth discharge because it's a pattern of misconduct. But here's where it get's tricky i asked the captain personal at mast after the second time i need help i think i have a problem he said you don't have a drinking problem you have a thinking problem. But it's standard after a alcohol related incident to get sent caac. Which they didn't so i wondering if i should fight that saying i wasn't properly helped or should i just fake being a homosexual to get a better discharge?

Cool, its taken me about 6 years to find a web site like this!
Well heres my story. When I failed at college I was in desperate need of a life and money. So I made a mistake of joining the Navy. When I went to take my physical in San Antonio, the fuckwad petty officers there brainwashed me into thinking that the SEAMAN APPRENTICE "PROGRAM" would be my best option (bullshit). I had wanted to be a radioman originally but i decided to go in as seaman since these officers told me that there were no radioman jobs left-which was also a load of crap. Once in bootcamp I never really took bootcamp seriously. At first I almost got kicked out for filling out my Phsycological test like I was a maniac (do you hit things when u are mad?--yes, do you smoke pot?--yes. So when i was called in by a counselor regarding my results I told him I was not serious. So I had to bullshit my way out of not going home from bootcamp. So anyway after that I decided to take it serioulsy maybe there was a chance I could be someone important.

Well everything was honky-dory until I arrived at my command (USS MOUNT WHITNEY). The bitch was on drydock and was known (and still is) known as the floating Hilton Inn aka Mount Whit-Me. What hell it turned out to be. The SEAMAN APPRENTICE job was really a load of crap...literally. The reason that they were trying so hard to add me on was because no one wanted to be a seaman appr. As a matter of fact I found out I was actually unrated which means u have no real job. All I would do was carry heavy shit up and down the 75 degree steps, chip paint, toss things overboard, sweep, mop--good ole DECK DEPARTMENT. IT WAS FULL OF FUCKHEADS who were in the brig and lost their stripes and positions because of fucking up. so they generally didnt care, but boy did were they the first to take credit whenever anything good was said of the deck department. I HAD HAD IT. all those monkeys were fucking lazy and full of it. LATER I BECAME DEPRESSSED AND DECIDED TO COME UP WITH A PLAN TO GET OUT. AGAINST MY GRANDMOTHER'S WISHES I ACTUALLY FOUND A WAY TO GET THE HELL OUT OF HELL....

HERES WHAT I DID....
I FAKED A SUICIDE ATTEMPT!!!!!
POPPED ONLY HALF OF VERY WEAK TYLENOL PILLS AND THREW THE REST OVERBOARD AND KEPT THE BOTTLE....GENERALLY I USED TO ALWAYS DO THIS WHEN I HAD HEADACHES. BUT TO THE UNFAMILIAR EYE IT WOULD LOOK AS A SUICIDE ATTEMPT. I WAITED UNTIL I FELT RELAXED AND STARTED TO STUMBLE TOWARD THE ON-DUTY WATCHMAN AND HANDED HIM THE BOTTLE AND EXPLAINED THAT "I THINK I JUST MADE THE MISTAKE OF MY LIFE!" IF ANYONE STOPPED TO WONDER TO SEE IF IT WAS ACTUALLY A PLOY NEVER CAME FOWARD BECAUSE IT WORKED! I DID GO THROUGH A BIT OF HELL THO. I WAS TAKEN TO A PHSYCIATRIC WARD FOR ABOUT TWO WEEKS OFF THE BASE IN A NAVAL HOSPITAL. IT REALLY WAS CREEPY BECAUSE EVERYONE THERE BUT ME WAS HEAVILY MEDICATED. EVERYONE THERE HAD TRIED TO DO THE SAME AND MAN THERE WERE PEOPLE FROM ALL TYPES OF MILITARY. THE WORST PART WAS WHEN I GOT THERE I WAS GIVEN A URINALISIS AND THEY TOLD ME THAT IT CAME OUT POSITIVE FOR METH. THEY TRIED TO SCARE ME ABOUT HOW I WAS GOING TO JAIL!!! THIS WAS CERTAINLY UNTRUE SINCE I HAD NEVER EVEN DONE METH NOR POT IN MY LIFE!!! I DID NOT GO DOWN THO, SINCE THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LOCK ME UP I DEMANDED I ATLEAST GET A URINALISIS REDONE WITH ME BEING ABLE TO LOCK THE SEAL AND TAPE THE LABEL WITH MY NAME ON IT MYSELF. I MADE THOSE FUCKERS WAIT UNTIL I WAS READY TO PEE AGIAN. AT THE END THEY TOLD ME I WAS NEGATIVE. SO WHEN I GOT OUT OF THAT HELL HOLE I WAS TAKEN BACK TO MY SHIP FOR ABOUT A MONTH UNTIL I WAS PROCESSED OUT. I RECEIVED A GENERAL DISCHARGE WHICH WAS LATER UPGRADED TO HONORABLE 6 MONTHS LATER. AND THE BEST PART WAS THAT I QUALIFIED FOR THE HAZELWOOD ACT (TEXAS), WHICH MEANS THAT THE GOVERNMENT PAID FOR MY 50 PERCENT OF COLLEGE AT WHICH I ATTENDED AFTER MY 6 MONTHS OF HELL!!! SO I ATLEAST GOT SOMETHING OUT OF IT!! THE THING I NEVER GOT WAS THE RE4...WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN? I just want to let you all know that if you get taken advantage of you have to think of all possibilities there are while they are fucking you up. I feel that atleast I got something in return for wasting 6 months of my life. But they can never recompense me for all the nightmares I still have to this day....

SO IF ANY OF YOU ARE DESPEREATE TO GET OUT AND DONT WANT TO SAY YOUR GAY, OR GO UA, DO SOME GOOD OLE ACTING LIKE I DID AND YOU'LL BE ON YOUR WAY HOME....

PS
when i got out i found out that the recruiter who lied to me was worried that i was going to kill him. which i didnt care to do....

PPS
WHERE CAN I APPLY FOR THAT SCHOLARSHIP FOR THOSE WHO WERE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY THE NAVY!!!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY I THINK MY STORY WOULD BE LIKE A GOOD MADE-FOR-TV MOVIE...HEHEH

Prettymuch they have more rank so you are probably fucked. If you do the homosexual idea make sure you do it in a way where you are not accused of lying - at this point I probably would not recommend doing it.

After you get screwed by the navy make sure you put up a website that lets everyone know what you think about the navy.

Since nobody seems to be answering any questions here, I will. To get your OTH or general discharge upgraded, you must first obtain your COMPLETE service record, available by submitting the SF 180 available here:

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/obtain_copies/standard_form_180.pdf

Be sure to request an "Undeleted" copy of your separation papers and your complete service record. Next, submit a DD form 293 available here:

http://www.vba.va.gov/pubs/forms/dd0293.pdf

I recommend getting legal aid when filling it out as any discrepancies in your separation papers may come in handy. It will also be helpful to contact your senators and congressional representative for assistance. While it isn't necessary to attend the hearing in person, it is highly recommended that you be as complete as possible in filling out your paperwork. Be sure to include details of your "model citizen" behavior since your discharge.

Good Luck!!

I got an OTH, now I am a Corporate Recruiter. Do not sweat the OTH, do not even mention it. Just say you were not in the Military.

If you are asked directly and they want to see a DD214; spill the beans, they will find out.

You will have to get it waived for a government job, could be a problem.

It will come up if you are going to be CFO.

It's amazing what one reads here. My son is about to be O-T-H'ed from Naval boot camp. He went in with his eyes wide open. We talked extensively about what he was doing, and what he was expected to become - a warrior. The military is not a social or public welfare organization. It is the mechanism by which a nation defends itself from harm, and its members are WARRIORS. Boot camp, rightly so, molds individuals from varied backgrounds into the fighting men and women the nation needs to protect it.
I'm glad the military discharges those who can't hack it and do the job needs to be done.

>It's amazing what one reads here.

isn't democracy and freedom of speech wonderful!!!

>My son is about to be O-T-H'ed from Naval boot camp. He went in with his eyes wide open. We talked extensively about what he was doing, and what he was expected to become - a warrior.

that is perhaps a bit misguided IMHO. most military memebers are not warriors.

>The military is not a social or public welfare organization.

not entirely true. some of the people I met in the navy would have had no job at all if it were not for the navy.

>It is the mechanism by which a nation defends itself from harm, and its members are WARRIORS.

really, that view is misguideded. read some books or spend a few years on a submarine.

>Boot camp, rightly so, molds individuals from varied backgrounds into the fighting men and women the nation needs to protect it.
I'm glad the military discharges those who can't hack it and do the job needs to be done.

hopefully your son finds a job that is more productive than what he would have done in the military.

Does anyone in the Navy ever get sent to the brig just for testing positive for marijuana?

I am a reservist in an infantry-based branch of the service. it seems likely we will return to iraq in about 15-18 months.

I have been disgusted with my unit since I joined. they have done nothing to prepare us for the possibility of returning to Iraq, and most of our drill weekends consist of little more than sitting around, doing nothing.

the chain of command seems to have zero interest in doing anything other than sitting back and collecting their paychecks and promotions. most of the experienced, worthwhile NCOs are long gone -- basically because the unit is such a mess.

I didn't join for this. While I was, and still am, totally willing to obey orders and do my job, there is little doubt the chain of command feels little need to follow through on their responsibility to me. as a low-ranking enlisted person, I know there is no point in even saying anything about it.

I am contemplating smoking some pot just to get kicked out. I gave up pot for the military when I joined, but right now am approaching the end of my patience ... and I still have a number of years on my contract.

I already have a good civilian career and don't see how an OTH could hurt me. so I have 2 questions:

1-if I don't want to be a police officer or something like that, does an OTH ever pose any risk to my professional life?

2-would I be able to upgrade an OTH? I already served once in Iraq, and have a combat action ribbon... I also always had above-average evaluations and never got into trouble. given these considerations, would an upgrade be doable?

I'd be very grateful if someone were to answer this posting. thanks

DR

After boot camp, all was well... but just before I was to report into MCT, I awoke with no function in my hand. THREE MONTHS latter my hand regained function... I became very pissed off due to the atrophy that took place in my left arm, and the assholes who told me I was a liar! FUCK the "SMART" clinic!!! my two EMG tests said other wise!!
But yes I have an OTH and a good old marine corps. nerve diaseas! and carrpel tunnel to top it all off. i am only 24.
and with unknown reasons why I have this nerve shit.
my rebelion was in defense!

My 2nd command in Springfield, Mo jerked my chain for the entire month my father was dying in the hospital. They wouldn't give me leave, no cost TAD orders, nothing. Despite several Red Cross messages. I got an OTH for smoking pot. I want it upgraded. Does anyone have any numbers or web sites that will help me? Thanks all!!

thoughts on going ua. been in the navy for only 9 months. have $6k saved up. could live out of motels for a while then go back home. is this feasible? how long should i wait before going back home? ive heard 180 days then they stop really caring about you. would be happy just working a crap job at walmart or somewhere.

My step-son is in the Air Force and will probably receive a general discharge here shortly. Can anyone explain to me what exactly is a "general discharge" and will it affect his chances of getting a job when he comes home?

Anth -- I have no righteous basis for talking you out of your intentions, but I do have experience. My decision in 1985 to desert--let's call it what it is--was, without a doubt, the worst decision of my entire life. I have never stopped regretting it.

If given one chance of a do-over, that would be it. It didn't affect my getting a good career, or leading a happy life; on the contrary, if I could just put it behind me, one could say I have the perfect life. But I can't, and probably never will.

Everything we do as people directly affects many, and vise-versa. This will affect many people in your life--those living now, and those in the future which you can't forsee. It will affect them for generations to come. It will cause humiliation and embarassment to your children, and their children.

I have, as do many, people in my lineage that served. If I had an ancestor that had deserted, that person would be looked at in a spotlight completely different than those who served, and particularly those who laid down their lives to guarantee our nation's freedom.

That person's offspring will never shake the stigma of their ancestor's actions. No matter what the reason, justified or not, the person will always be looked at as a coward; a quiter. When your children are confronted by other children who lost a relative who served, there is no escape for them.

And if you think others won't find out, think again. They always do.

I could lie and say I got booted for smoking weed, or doing cocaine, but that's not what I did, and I have enough self-respect (what little is left) to speak the truth.

I could have taken the drug route to get out. It would have been easy for me. I loved getting high before I went in. But, in this life, we're held accountable for our actions, and should be. I left because, I thought, the alternative was shooting someone.

In retrospect, it's easy for me to say I wouldn't desert again. It's easy to forget how much I hated the people I was with. I was close to assaulting someone with a loaded weapon. Had I, I would have undoubtedly spent a good time in prison, and be so much worse off than today.

But I can't say I'm glad I deserted, either. There had to be a better way to solve my problems, and I'll just have to live with the realization that I didn't find that way.

Many on this site have very good reasons for deserting, or taking drugs intentionally to get booted out, and will defend their actions strongly, but I have to look at myself in the mirror daily, and I see a quitter. I see someone living the life of freedom and opportunity, who wasn't willing to help defend that life with my own.

It wasn't worth it.

>Everything we do as people directly affects many, and vise-versa. This will affect many people in your life--those living now, and those in the future which you can't forsee. It will affect them for generations to come.

Its true that anything you do has ongoing effects.

>It will cause humiliation and embarassment to your children, and their children.

Today I am doing well. The single biggest reason I am doing well is because I took the "other than honorable" route. The bogus judgemental behaviour others gave me taught me a ton about humanity and life and about taking accountability for my actions and environment. It is what led me to set up the page and make it so that Google would rank it well for phrases such as "other than honorable" and "other than honorable discharge."

>That person's offspring will never shake the stigma of their ancestor's actions. No matter what the reason, justified or not, the person will always be looked at as a coward; a quiter. When your children are confronted by other children who lost a relative who served, there is no escape for them.

Thats just plain crap. I have known many people who have done well despite a bad military career. You chose how you live and what you pass on.

>And if you think others won't find out, think again. They always do.

Thats the trick. Tell who you like. Decide who not to. I intentionally made it so that the largest information gathering systems in the world rank this page for "other than honorable discharge." Its nothing to be ashamed of. After the confusion of leaving the military abruptly there are probably enough other things to worry about other than the status of your discharge.

I have many friends who got honorable discharges that still strugled after they got out of the military. I almost instantly flourished because I decided to put the past behind me and focus on what I am interested on.

>I could lie and say I got booted for smoking weed, or doing cocaine, but that's not what I did, and I have enough self-respect (what little is left) to speak the truth.

It seems to me that you feel like less of a man for not getting an honorable discharge. Is the person who serves 3 years as a cook in the reserves a better person than me? If so then why?

>I could have taken the drug route to get out. It would have been easy for me. I loved getting high before I went in. But, in this life, we're held accountable for our actions, and should be. I left because, I thought, the alternative was shooting someone.

Sounds to me like you made a wise choice. Murder is typically a bad call.

>In retrospect, it's easy for me to say I wouldn't desert again. It's easy to forget how much I hated the people I was with. I was close to assaulting someone with a loaded weapon. Had I, I would have undoubtedly spent a good time in prison, and be so much worse off than today.

Again, murder is usually a bad thing...

>But I can't say I'm glad I deserted, either. There had to be a better way to solve my problems, and I'll just have to live with the realization that I didn't find that way.

And that is what is really sad. The military gives people ultimatums. Your dishonorable, your in the brig, you are honorable... This or that. Right and wrong. Black and white. The real world does not work that way.

If you let anything negative drive your actions for the rest of your life in a negative way then you have already given up a good part of your heart, soul, and mind.

>Many on this site have very good reasons for deserting, or taking drugs intentionally to get booted out, and will defend their actions strongly, but I have to look at myself in the mirror daily, and I see a quitter. I see someone living the life of freedom and opportunity, who wasn't willing to help defend that life with my own.
It wasn't worth it.

Everything you do has an associated opportunity cost. Blindly following leaders causes them to be fucked up. Following all the rules all the time may mean that there is less freedom and more people needlessly die.

I challenged the system and am doing just fine. Today more than ever I am proud of my actions and what freedoms I have left.

general discharge = no big deal.

the biggest difference between it and an honorable are the GI bill benefits, and if you got an honorable discharge via reenlisting prior to your end discharge of general I believe many of those benefits still exist.

Is there any loophole for getting out of the Navy without smoking weed or doing something stupid? Would it help at all to talk to a lawyer and see what they have to say? I'm desperate!

I was discharged from the U.S. Army after 2 years of service, for failing the urinal test. I did 90 days of extra duty and was also deployed while on extra duty. After being threatened and spit on for five months, it was my hard work and respect I earned from my peers and leaders that got me a General (under honorable conditions). Now, I would love to rejoin the military which I enjoyed more than anything in the world, but it seems like no one will give me a chance. So what can I do , anyone with information please contact me by e-mail Thanks.

I received an OTH (RE4) from the Navy back in 98 for doing drugs (ecstacy). I admit that I seriously messed up and take all the responsibility for my actions. I'm am now in my last year of nursing school, I have a 3.4 GPA and I'm looking to get back in. I've been hearing things about getting waivers for RE4 codes from the Army National Guard. What is the validity of this? Will they still give you a waiver if you're trying to become a commissioned officer. I'm trying to get into the Army Nurse Corps. I heard on the news that the National Guard has fallen short of their 2004 quotas by 30%. Would this increase my chances of getting a waiver approved? Thanks for your help.

Question...
So Aaron when you applied for these jobs did you mention that you had a military career?
On your application what did you put under Military background?
I know someone that had Class C Misdemeanors prior to the Navy which they recieved as a 16 year old, and they were allowed to enlist into the Navy, they now have an OTH due to personal family reasons.
Can you get a job working for the Military or any other decent job in the Market with both misdemeanors and an OTH?
Can this person repair their life???

>So Aaron when you applied for these jobs did you mention that you had a military career?
On your application what did you put under Military background?

Initially I mentioned that I was in the navy and that I got an other than honorable discharge. Later on I mentioned the military but did not mention the other than honorable discharge unless they asked about it. Most people do not know much about the military or your terms of discharge.

>Can you get a job working for the Military or any other decent job in the Market with both misdemeanors and an OTH?

I would say I make more than the average worker. I have turned down employers that wanted to pay me to work 4 hours a dan and would pay more than the average job. I am not looking for military employment.

>Can this person repair their life???

Sure they can. Its up to them though. They can live in the past and keep their other than honorable discharge with them and allow it to continue to give them an excuse to do bad. OR the other options are:
-they could ignore their terms of discharge and go on with life.
-they can use any bitterness they have as a possitive motivator in their life.

Thank you for the reply Aaron....

Did you run across employers that did look into your background even though you did not provide your discharge information?

Has anyone on this site had an okay time finding a job after having both a Misdemeanor, Class C and an OTH?

Did you put your specific information as for when you enlisted and the separation date on your applications?

Were you specific when applying or vague?

Have you ever been hired and then later terminated due to false information, as for after they looked into your background?

>Did you run across employers that did look into your background even though you did not provide your discharge information?

nope. I was brought on as management at a large international company...even Wal Mart was going to hire me too. lots of big companies do not check.

>Has anyone on this site had an okay time finding a job after having both a Misdemeanor, Class C and an OTH?

if the misdemeanor happened as a youth I do not htink it matters much. an other than honorable discharge does not matter much so long as you do not mention it.

>Did you put your specific information as for when you enlisted and the separation date on your applications?

I think I may have. there are non OTH reasons (family problems, etc.) to leave early. so long as you do not act like there is something to hide they probably will not expect it.

>Were you specific when applying or vague?

its all about empathy. if they don't care that much about the specifics than neither should you. with wal mart I was vauge with a bunch of stuff. I was placed at the job I took by a former military member. I was exceptionally specific about some of the good times and experiences we both had. he thought I was one of the good old boys. its all about empathy.

>Have you ever been hired and then later terminated due to false information, as for after they looked into your background?

no, I quit my job like 6-8 months after I got it. I became a self employed internet marketer. when you searched for "other than honorable discharge" you found this page because I wanted this page to rank for that phrase.

well, I just took a pee-test the other day and I am about 90% sure that I have failed it. I smoked with a few of my buddies about a week ago at a band practice of ours, just to bring back the moments from the good ol' days while jamming. Well, then I go to freakin' school and they called my name for a damn pee test.

Alright, here is my question. Am I gonna get a Dis-honorable discharge, or a other-than-honorable discharge? and what will determine what I get.

I have been in the navy since {edited} and Am now at "A" school learning to be an {edited}

My friends have told me that since I am at a training facility, that I will only get an O-T-H, and not a dishonorable, but really, I think that they have no idea. Can you please help me and let me know what you think? Is there a possability that I will get and Dishonorable, or do I have a chance at getting an O-T-H ??

email me: edited@yahoo.com

a dishonorable discharge is a bit hard to get. you will probably get an other than honorable discharge if they catch you. I edited out your details because there is no reason to rat yourself out and some members of the military will be reading this page.

I am not certain why some people want to give all their details before they get in trouble or while they are still in the military. look at the guy way above who states that he is doing undercover drug work and gives his official navy email and whatnot. that is probably not a wise thing to do.

thanks alot for responding, it shows that people actually do care.

The reason for giving the info, is because I don't really care if they know or not. I wanna get out of this Navy bull shit so bad, that I hope that I pop positive on my drug test. I wanna go back to living the life that I used to live, and persue my musical career.

But again, thank you for responding to my post, and also thank you for editing out my foolish mistakes of giving away info, before I have even been prosicuted.

Oh yea, about the dishonorable discharge thing, can you tell me, what Exactly would one have to do to get that. Thank you~

I think the dishonorable discharge would be more like beating the crap out of your CO and selling drugs to his or her children.

I think dishonorable is usually a bunch more than just doing drugs.

if you do not get in trouble tell the chaplain you are gay or something. based on your comments on my blog it is fairly apparent that you do not give a shit about the military. best to get out without wasting your time on unneeded punishment, maltreatment, and whatnot

some members of the military are big jugemental scumbags toward people who use drugs. you are better off not seeing the ugly side of the mental midgets...unless you want to write a song about how stupid and inhumain they are. if you are looking for that sort of material stick around. you will have lots of lyrical and musical inspiration.

best of luck
happy holidays
aaron

You may all want to check this out for excellent information regarding the many questions I've seen here.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/aadischarge1.htm

I wish you all well, good luck and peace.

Rhonda J.

well, it's been almost a week now since my drug test, and still no word on wether I failed or not. If it turns out that I passed the test somehow, I think that I am just gonna go with the "gay" plan, and go talk to my chaplin about getting out so I can persue my life as a gay man (I'm not gay though, just gonna act it.) If that works out, I'll inform others here at this web site about the detail on what they did and how it all worked out. Wish me GL.

I?ve been reading most of the postings here, one thing is that a OTH such as a BCD etc. has nothing to due with a felony, they like to say crap like that to scare you. In addition, no one can gain access to your military records. No one can do a background check and come up with what type of discharge you have. Only the FBI (not even them most of the time) and DOD are about the only ones who know what type of discharge you might have.

What's the worst punishment that someone can realistically get if they smoke weed in the Navy and then pop positive on the piss test?

I was wondering if anybody knows if an oth will screw up your ability to get a secret clearance? Thanks. Oh yeah the OTH was due to marijuana usage in the USMC.

ok here my deal.

My best friend does some chrystal meth in my car one night while we are chillin @ my pad. he leaves a good sized bump on my center console.
I get up in the mourning to go to work and set my arm down in this shit and dont realize it at all, well just my luck i get wiz quized. so i fight my pop all the way up to a polygraph. the day before i take the poly my boy fesses up to accidentally leaving some meth in my ride. so i beat his ass. but that was it, i let it go. funny thing is my polly reads after being asked if i "Intentionaly" used. the NCIS guy tells me "there is a "HINT" of deception here, and that means you are "PROBABLY" lying. so i figure the hint of deception is cuz i know now how it got in my system so my readings go up. al in all i was discharged with an OTH all because i wasnt going to rat my boy of 9 yrs out so he can get charged with attempted murder automatic 10 yrs.......I aint no fuckin rat....and i never thought i would say it but fuck the navy

oh and John

yah bro you loose your clearence,
and if you need that clearence for your advancement or its a rec. you loose your rate to.
same thing with an NEC, you loose schools,bonuses some times. sorry bro

my kid is in restriction, he popped positive for cocaine. i have no idea what he will do when he is processed out from what they said he will never have a job blah blah blah. can you tell me something good, like it is crap and he can find work. Thanks so much.

hi mishelle
they try to scare you into believing an OTH is the end of the world, but I found one for a while until I decided to start my own company.

The lines from the military - its all bullshit.

i was wondering if you can still reenlist in the national guard after getting an oth from the navy,cause i need the college benefits, someone please help me out with this question.

hi leah
there are waivers for just about anything and oth discharges are not that uncommon, but its going to be on you to try to push it if it is something you really want.

I went into the delayed entry for a yr while in high school. I went into the marines 9 days after I graduated.
To make a long story short. I was young dumb and stupid. Made it to Infantry training. Made a dumb mistake and went ua for about 14 days. I came back and got a General OTH. I now wish I would have done something different.
1. My questions are this. SHOULD I YES OR NO put this on a application. If I apply for a civil service job or a law enforcement job should I list this and that I got an oth? I am sure they do not care why I did it. I will automatically be disqualified I am sure.
2. How hard is it to get into say the guard with a re4 code? If I want it can I get in?
3. Can anyone please help me to follow the right path to trying to get this updated?
Thank you

aaron,
i have some questions about the nuclear engineering field in the navy. would you be willing to answer them? if so, please e-mail me asap at stinkafuton@hotmail.com i'd really appreciate it. thanks!
john

i got a friend that just got busted for smoking weed in the Navy and now he's on restriction before he's processed out. can anyone tell me if he's even allowed to make phone calls while on restriction? i need to talk to him! thanks.

Hi Bam
>SHOULD I YES OR NO put this on a application. If I apply for a civil service job or a law enforcement job should I list this and that I got an oth? I am sure they do not care why I did it. I will automatically be disqualified I am sure.

I would generally leave it off, but I probably would not want to work in those fields. like how can you knowingly and willingly break laws and want to enforce them on others?

>2. How hard is it to get into say the guard with a re4 code? If I want it can I get in?
3. Can anyone please help me to follow the right path to trying to get this updated?

not sure about getting it updated. IMHO its not worth wasting your time with the military. work hard to do something you like and just act as if the military never happened (other than taking their shitty actions as a motivation to do better)

Hi John
not sure if I could answer your questions...it depends on their nature.

Hi Stan
yes you can make calls from restriction (or at least I made many)

I was discharged 2 years ago with an OTH from the Marines. I was told the same shit most people are, that the OTH will be upgraded. Well my first year was hell but my second year is not so bad. I am now going to college full-time and working at the same college part-time. The Government is paying for my tuition because I make less than $30,000 a year, not because I am a veteran.

My current boss told me that he does not care what I got from the military. I could have a dishonorable and he still would have hired me. The military told me that I would never amount to anything and never be able to go to college either. I called the CO of my last unit and gave him the good news and basically told him to go fuck himself.

I wish you all the best of luck in your endeavors.

ive been in the navy for 9 months and was caught on the quarterdeck with some weed and underage drinking. it was my first offense and i got 45 45 and an oth. i never popped b/c i was just holding it and forgot i had it. some asshole saw me in the club with it and called my ship with a description. can you tell me the process of how i can change the oth to a general.

AARON wall
I was not really looking into law enforcement I was looking more towards the line of firefighting. That is what I ment when I said civil service. Thank you for the reply

> I was not really looking into law enforcement

that is not what you said earlier. this is directly quoted from an earlier post of yours

>or a law enforcement job

Not to burst anyone's bubbles, but listen to my story. As someone wrote earlier, it "is" all about if your chain of command "likes" you or not. I was being hazed, and wasn't liked (to much individuality, too intelligent and opinionated). A friend of mine was given a general under honorable discharge after being NJP about four times. His offenses were: DUI, testing positive for Cocaine, Assault with a deadly weapon (threw a bottle at another Marine, it hit a railing; broke and cut that Marine's face) and some other charge. Anyway, he worked in the same office as me, actually the desk right next to me. They reccommended a general under honorable and he got one. They were so surprised (pissed off) that the CO actually backed up their recommendation, here's what happened when I went up. Everyone knew I was being hazed and treated unfairly. It was actually a joke around the office. I was given NJP 15/15 plus fines for my first offense, which was wearing an earring off base. Then after being late a few times I was give Battallion 45/45 and max forfeitures, with reduction to e-2 right before picking up E-4. After that NJP I was late once and given another 45/45 maxed, w/reduction to E-1. While on NJP I was late 2x both under 2-3 minutes, once I got a ride with a friend and forgot ny cover. They waited until I finished my 45/45 and then gave me another 45/45 with max forfeitures and reduction to E-0, for being late and out of uniform. A consecuitve 90 days. This is when they tried to put me up for separation. The Admin Sep package got kicked back though because they forgot to give me somw paragraph warning. It basically says mess up again and you will be separated. They need that document in order to separate you. It was so obvious I was being hazed my First S. actually scheduled a time for me to be late so that I could get Ad seped. You see even though I had already served 4 years of a five year contract. I was being treated so bad I was ready to give up everything just to get out. That's how bad it was. Anyway they would of just found a way to get me out, they were "out to get me". Well in conclusion my offenses were: Wearing an eariing, being late, and being late on restriction. 3 NJP's wearing and earring and for being late basically. I was recommended for general under honorable and after hearing of my friends discharge of general under honorable I was sure I would get it. When I was handed the papers I ended up receiving an OTH. I found out that my SNCO was actually forced to change his recommendation that he showed me and was "signed" to an OTH because they wanted to make an example out of me. This is why I will never, EVER, support anyone I care about to join the military. It was the hardest time of my life. The sad part is I am still paying for it. I had a car, a motorcycle, my wife's (now divorced, because of what happened) engagement ring all Repossed. Lots of bills unpaid and charge offs. My credit is ruined my score is like a 540 or something. I never optioned for the GI bill, but they took it out for the first year anyway. I went with it because I figured I would use it. Well I lost that too, and my guranteed home loan, with a credit score like I have now because of the Marine Corps I'm screwed for a very long time. If there's a way to get upgraded to a general under honorable please someone E-mail me at: rlamountain@carolina.rr.com
If anyone deserves it, it's me. After what I've been through and went I will still be going through because of them; they've managed to ruin 11 years of my life. Semper Fi!!!!! So much for taking care of your own.

i got out of the navy with an other than honarable discharge...when can i change my discharge...how long until i can join a different service?

Anyone knows how long they will keep you in the mental hospital? I am thinking of going with the "crazy" route to get out. I know, I am really a bit cookie in the head but want to expand a little bit. Can anyone give me any tips and/or recommendations on what to do and not to do while commited.

being labeled crazy is probably really a bad deal IMHO. why not just act gay?

I am in the process of trying to reenlist in the Army. I have a BCD but a recruiter said he could get me waivers except I have two months lost time when I was in confinement at Ft. Knox waiting for my court martial and that put me over his waiver limit. I guess with everything goin on its alot easier to get back in with a not so clean record. Can anyone give me information on how I should go about writing my senator. I think i'll try that.

Aaron (or anyone),
If I tell my leading petty officer I've been doing drugs and for some reason I show up negative on the piss test, do they still kick me out of the Navy?
-John

>If I tell my leading petty officer I've been doing drugs and for some reason I show up negative on the piss test, do they still kick me out of the Navy?

they prettymuch can screw you if they want to...the main thing is that they are supposed to have some shit like reasonable suspicion.

if they don't like you they can probably get you for no reason at all. there is nothing just about the military justice system.

Hey guys I really hate to be the bum one here but i have a question. I want to get out on Inability to Adapt to Navy life. Cus this isnt really what i need im so upset all the time and i cant do anything. Tell me is there anything you guys know about this and if so How long will it take for me to say c ya. Cus i hate to say it But this isnt the life I expected and its not for me. Lemme know when you can by postin

Hey I hope theres a way some of you experianced people can help me out. I know i might sound like a baby. But the navy life isnt for me Im so depressed all the time, i feel chlostrophobic, and im sick of moping around and feeling bad. Im trying to get out on a Failure to adapt to military life. Do you guys know anything about this and if so help me out. Oh and How long would you say it would take for it to go through?

My son is was in the brigg for UA of 17 days he was told he was going to another unit then the last day they decided they were keeping him in his previous unit. he was there 5 days then came home for leave for 13 days first day back he is told they were going to admin seperate him for failure to adapt he is into his 3rd yr and like the rest he will get OTH can anyone help. He really don't want out he screwed up with the UA paid his price for it.

If you did drugs you deserve nothing less than an OTH. Deal with it. ZERO TOLERANCE. You shouldn't have done drugs.

>If you did drugs

what effects do poor food quality, low oxygen levels, no sun light, and huffing paint fumes have on the mind?

those are not too uncommonly the living conditions of a submarine.

sorry you are so close minded, but it is people like you that made me want to get out of the navy.

ps: I would estimate that about 25-30% of the crew probably did drugs. people are much more open when they can tell you are honest.

No, The conditions of the Navy didn't make people do drugs, they did them because they are looooooooooosers.

Service members signed a contract and swore to an oath. Part of that oath was to obey orders. "Don't do drugs is an order."

Closed minded...Well the only ones that I see are closed minded are the ones that did drugs. Closed minded to the facts and laws that state, "You will not use a Controlled Substance."
Blaming and making excuses for drug use will forever hold people back in their pursuit to put this behind them and continue on to make a better life for themselves.
P.S.
You didn't get out of the Navy because you wanted too. You were kicked out with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. No one wants to get kicked out with an OTH. MILSPERSMAN 1910 clearly states that an OTH, can only be awarded when the performance of service does not warrant an Honorable or General Under Honorable discharge.

P.S.S.
Most of the personnel who use drugs, more than likely will continue to use and never become a productive member of the community

>No, The conditions of the Navy didn't make people do drugs, they did them because they are looooooooooosers.

Nice. For anyone looking on, debating joining the military, these are the types of close minded judgemental assholes that comprise the majority of the corpus.

Interesting how someone can be 30 years old and still see the world entirely black and white. It gets to where you wonder if these guys would eat their own brains if the military / government told them that it was good.

>Service members signed a contract and swore to an oath. Part of that oath was to obey orders. "Don't do drugs is an order."

And some of those people who signed those papers were not even old enough to vote when they signed them. When I joined the navy I did not think I was taking an early trip to hell, but we all make mistakes.

My life has been lived so much purely now that I am not in hell and do not want to go there in the future.

Also, does the paperwork actually say "don't do drugs?" What do you think about the meth that pilots were ordered to use a few years back?

>Closed minded...Well the only ones that I see are closed minded are the ones that did drugs. Closed minded to the facts and laws that state, "You will not use a Controlled Substance."

So huffing paint is fine then because it screws you up worse than alot of other drugs AND because the military forces you to do it AND because it has no desireable side effects - other than killing off brain cells - which makes you dummer and more likely to re enlist?

Feel free to explain yourself on that one.

Also military members get to be lab rats for lots of vacines. Do you count those "not released to the general public" & "not widely tested" substances as controlled substances.

After you sign the contract you get propiganda, shitttttyyyyyyy food, bad drugs, etc... you get all these injected into your body whether you like it or not.

>Blaming and making excuses for drug use will forever hold people back in their pursuit to put this behind them and continue on to make a better life for themselves.

Afraid not. Some people live far richer lives due to their drug usage. Some artists and writers and musicians would never be who they are without some of those substances.

For the most part drugs are not for me though...just was a phase I went through when I wanted to die and did not want to make it look intentional.

>P.S.
You didn't get out of the Navy because you wanted too. You were kicked out with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. No one wants to get kicked out with an OTH. MILSPERSMAN 1910 clearly states that an OTH, can only be awarded when the performance of service does not warrant an Honorable or General Under Honorable discharge.

The funny thing is that you probably just made this page rank for another document term when you wrote MILSPERSMAN 1910.

Interesting concept. I now go wherever I want, whenever I want, and make over 3 times what I made while in the navy. I really am not seeing the downside to my early end of tour of service.

>P.S.S.
Most of the personnel who use drugs, more than likely will continue to use and never become a productive member of the community

More lies judgemental religious right wing fundamentalist nut jobs would like you to believe.

Again, oxygen, or a lack of it, is a drug...so is propiganda. You Mike certainly appear to be taken more by the later.

May you live a life rich in propiganda and misguided purpose and becme a pillar of the community!

No, The conditions of the Navy didn't make people do drugs, they did them because they are looooooooooosers.
Nice. For anyone looking on, debating joining the military, these are the types of close minded (one word) judgemental (Judgmental) assholes that comprise the majority of the corpus.
Interesting how someone can be 30 years old and still see the world entirely black and white. It gets to where you wonder if these guys would eat their own brains if the military / government told them that it was good.

**Ok, let just look at this one, you must agree, your argument shows no contents towards the text. If you are thinking about joining the Military and you do drugs, DON’T JOIN. I don’t want you and we don’t need you. So, keep your drug loving A%# (in case children are reading this) at home. Black and white huh, we at least I can read and spell. English is your first language right? I corrected your spelling. For people reading this, do you really want to take the advice of someone who can’t spell, or at least doesn’t know what spell check or a dictionary is used for.

>Service members signed a contract and swore to an oath. Part of that oath was to obey orders. "Don't do drugs is an order."
And some of those people who signed those papers were not even old enough to vote when they signed them. When I joined the navy I did not think I was taking an early trip to hell, but we all make mistakes.
My life has been lived so much purely now that I am not in hell and do not want to go there in the future.
Also, does the paperwork actually say "don't do drugs?" What do you think about the meth (Myth) that pilots were ordered to use a few years back?

**Again, it’s not hard. You don’t do drugs. You don’t need to be 18 to know that it’s wrong and more important it’s illegal!! (Remember the commercial ”This is drugs, this is your brain on drugs, Any Questions.” Mom and Dad should have taught you this one. Using Drugs is not a mistake, it’s a choice, no one put a gun up to anyone’s head and say’s “Smoke this joint”, they do it because they think they won’t get caught.

>Closed minded...Well the only ones that I see are closed minded are the ones that did drugs. Closed minded to the facts and laws that state, "You will not use a Controlled Substance."
So huffing paint is fine then because it screws you up worse than a lot (a lot, two words) of other drugs AND because the military forces you to do it AND because it has no desireable (desirable) side effects - other than killing off brain cells - which makes you dummer (not a word) and more likely to re enlist?

**It’s called a respirator, the respirator safety program. Of course you might not remember that one because we only have this in the Navy, not in Hell. You are required to wear them. NAVOSH requires it.

Feel free to explain yourself on that one.
Also military members get to be lab rats for lots of vacines. (vaccines) Do you count those "not released to the general public" & "not widely tested" substances as controlled substances.

**Look everyone it’s Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. Get real please, drug users are dumb already, lets not influence them anymore than necessary.

After you sign the contract you get propiganda, (propaganda) shitttttyyyyyyy food, bad drugs, etc... (Y)you get all these injected into your body whether you like it or not.

**Please refer to my last statement.

>Blaming and making excuses for drug use will forever hold people back in their pursuit to put this behind them and continue on to make a better life for themselves.
Afraid not. Some people live far richer lives due to their drug usage. Some artists and writers and musicians would never be who they are without some of those substances.

**So, why do you have this website? Far richer lives, look at all the people that are that are trying to change their discharges.

For the most part drugs are not for me though...just was a phase I went through when I wanted to die and did not want to make it look intentional.

**Ever thought about counseling??

>P.S.
You didn't get out of the Navy because you wanted too. You were kicked out with an Other Than Honorable Discharge. No one wants to get kicked out with an OTH. MILSPERSMAN 1910 clearly states that an OTH, can only be awarded when the performance of service does not warrant an Honorable or General Under Honorable discharge.
The funny thing is that you probably just made this page rank for another document term when you wrote MILSPERSMAN 1910.

**Ok, you lost me on this one. When you got kicked out of the Navy, you sign a document this this information all over it and you should know this one like the back of you hand. Try this, go to Google.com, and click, copy, and paste. Here, I made it easy for you. http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/MILPERS/MILPERSMAN%20%201910%20-%20ENLISTED%20ADMINISTRATIVE%20SEPARAT.PDF
Why don't you answer this one.

Interesting concept. I now go wherever I want, whenever I want, and make over 3 times what I made while in the navy. I really am not seeing the downside to my early end of tour of service.

**Isn’t unemployment a great thing? So much time on your hands to do whatever you want. Funny thing is I love my job, my country, and most of all, when I retire, I’ll have an Honorable Discharge.

>P.S.S.
Most of the personnel who use drugs, more than likely will continue to use and never become a productive member of the community
More lies judgemental (You did it twice) religious right wing fundamentalist nut jobs would like you to believe.

**Hmmm, so why do you think we have such, strong and harsh penalties for drug offenders, not to mention the rehab clinic, Anti-drug education programs and law enforcement task forces against drugs.

Again, oxygen, or a lack of it, is a drug...so is propiganda.(Refer to the first one) You Mike certainly appear to be taken more by the later.

**No, Aaron I don’t blame the Navy for ruining my life, I’m living my life. You should do the same and destroy this website and quit giving people false hope. You have no idea who I am. I have a successful career that deals with this very subject of conversation. I’m proud to wear the uniform and defend my country to the extents of my ability. I don’t use drug, and never will. Stop making excuses for things that people had complete control of, and now wish they would have made the right choice instead of the drug choice.

May you live a life rich in propiganda (Strike Three) and misguided purpose and becme (Where’s the A?) a pillar of the community!

**I will!!

Hello,
Recently, I have been looking through different military blogs and found this site. You guys seem very knolwegable about the matter that I am researching on. This is my situation: I have been in the Army Reserve for over 5 years now. For all 5 years, I got good standings - good years- on my record. This past year, I served in OIF1 in Iraq for 14 months. After coming back from there, I have been busy trying to catch up with my school courses. Furthermore, this year, I am planning to take the MCAT and apply to med schools. I have been so busy that I couldn't make many of my drills. Due to missing drills, the unit is thinking about giving me a general discharge. Right now, I don't know if I should make up the missed drills- I don't even know if I can find the time to do that. Also, I am worried that the unit might get deployed again; therefore, I am thinking about taking this discharge before I get sent out again. Lately, I have been thiking about writing to the congress lady (in California) asking for help. Should I just accept this type of discahrge? Should I ask the congress lady for help? Any helpful comments or advices from you guys would be very appreciated. Thank you

>Should I just accept this type of discahrge?

you are probably not going to get the best advice from random people over the web. you may want to talk to a lawyer. you may not want to let the military know that you are talking to a lawyer right off the start either.

>your argument shows no contents towards the text.

and your blind opinion is irrelevent. yawn

>If you are thinking about joining the Military and you do drugs, DON’T JOIN. I don’t want you and we don’t need you. So, keep your drug loving A%# (in case children are reading this) at home.

I actually never did drugs until after I joined the navy and wanted to kill myself. really I do not do them often at all now...pass them up all the time...no desire.

>Black and white huh, we at least I can read and spell. English is your first language right? I corrected your spelling. For people reading this, do you really want to take the advice of someone who can’t spell, or at least doesn’t know what spell check or a dictionary is used for.

for people reading this, do you want to take the advice of someone who is so petty that spelling is one of their primary concerns?

>Again, it’s not hard. You don’t do drugs.

huffing paint is a drug. giving people inadequate oxygen levels is a drug. robbing a person of sunlight is a drug. its just one big hypocritical circus.

>It’s called a respirator, the respirator safety program. Of course you might not remember that one because we only have this in the Navy, not in Hell. You are required to wear them. NAVOSH requires it.

two parts to this one pal:
1.) you have to qualify to get the respirator. a friend of mine did not take the course and they made him paint the bilge without using one.
2.) when you create a large paint crew to paint the sub while underway (HIGHLY ILLEGAL) there are not enough respirators for the whole crew to use.

>Look everyone it’s Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. Get real please, drug users are dumb already, lets not influence them anymore than necessary.

fair enough. explain why it was necissary to destroy my work records prior to processing me? feel free to get a clue.

>Try this, go to Google.com, and click, copy, and paste.

of course I could just do that from this page. really no need to go to Google to do that. Google is not the same thing as the WWW...just helping to clue-you-in.

>Isn’t unemployment a great thing? So much time on your hands to do whatever you want. Funny thing is I love my job, my country, and most of all, when I retire, I’ll have an Honorable Discharge.

feel free to leave your name on this page and I bet I could rank #1 on Gogle for YOUR NAME. bet that same idea has commercial applications to...especially since people like you think Google is the WWW.

>Hmmm, so why do you think we have such, strong and harsh penalties for drug offenders, not to mention the rehab clinic, Anti-drug education programs and law enforcement task forces against drugs.

Since the cold war ended we needed a way to help justify throwing away more money.

>You should do the same and destroy this website and quit giving people false hope.

I am not going to self censor my thoughts because you think it would be a good thing for me to do. Exact reason why leaving the military was the right thing to do...make my own decisions and live my own life however and wherever I want to.

>You have no idea who I am.

Carmen Sandiego?

>I have a successful career that deals with this very subject of conversation.

me too. I only became a successful marketer because of the military.

>I’m proud to wear the uniform and defend my country to the extents of my ability.

is that what you actually believe you are doing? when you tell people who disagree with your point of view to self censor with bully speak? is that really patriotic?

I thought a little bit of dissent was a good thing.

>I don’t use drug, and never will. Stop making excuses for things that people had complete control of, and now wish they would have made the right choice instead of the drug choice.

I am not making any excuses. Simply put the military is not for me and I am freely expressing that. Others may be thinking of joining and I would just like them to know that often it is something not worth doing.

back to a prior point

>You should do the same and destroy this website and quit giving people false hope.

so what you are saying is that if upon discharge for any reason that if the military does not like you then your life is destroyed forever? seems to me like it would be stupid to join the military if that is true. a risk not worth taking IMHO

Wow, did I strike a nerve or what. Look I have better things to do. Good luck with the OTH.

>Wow, did I strike a nerve or what.

no nerve struck, you just can't handle knowing the hypocricy of that system...

>Look I have better things to do. Good luck with the OTH.

and good luck to you too.

Shaffe (way above),
The best way you'll ever get out on a failure to adapt to military life is by having multiple visits with a psychologist/psychiatrist. Once you've met with him/her for at least a couple months and if you continually feel depressed and you're getting worse then eventually a psychologist might make the recommendation that your CO let you out based on your failure to adapt to the military. I've also heard that if you are persistent about wanting out and you're still in your first six months you might be able to get an entry level separation. But like I said, you must be persistent.
-D Brown

I am awaiting captain's mast in the next two weeks and am wondering what kind of effects an oth will have on me when I am out. I popped on a piss test and assume it will be oth maybe general. Need advice and info. Thanks

the effects of the OTH will carry with you if you want them to and let them. otherwise they will not.

Aaron (or anyone),
I'll be going to captain's mast in a few weeks. Do I go to an executive officer's screening first? If so, what is that like? And what exactly is oral admonition? thanks.
Jeremiah

>Do I go to an executive officer's screening first?

sometimes the do those and sometimes not. really its just an administrative feature. if they want to fuck you or have their mind set on the results of the mast before it starts they may not even need to do one...or if the XO thinks you are a piece of shit he may want to do it just to let you know what he thinks of you.

>If so, what is that like?

depends on if your XO is a likable or useful human being or a complete tool. pretty much they can either talk to you nicely or scold you.

>And what exactly is oral admonition?

thats where they call you a piece of shit. sometimes they do it in private, but I remember my old captain was such a piece of shit that he had a kid crying in front of the whole crew.

if they decide that they need to be mean scumbags because humanity and respect for a fellow man are not part of the rules then its probably best to ignore them.

im in the marines, in okinawa japan.i got njp for underage drinkin.joining the military was the worst decision i have ever made.i was only 17 when i went to boot camp and was to young to make a decision that would so much effect my life.its true most people in the marines care more about their reputation then anything and will walk over you and stab you in the back at any chance to kiss some higher rankin ass.

I got out of the navy about six months ago under an oth discharge and I only had about 3 months left on my four year contract. I popped for coke on my UA. I dont remember doing coke at all, but then again I dont remember much of the night due to the use of alcohol. I could of faught the charge but I felt I wasn't going to get any support from my command and it just would have dragged my seperation on. I was planning on going to college the whole time I was in the navy, that's the reason I joined. I did the whole G.I. bill thing, I even put an extra $600 on top of the $1200 G.I. plan, but since my o.t.h. all that just doesnt seem like it going to happen anymore. Now college is that much farther away from me. If there is any assistance I can recieve from anyone please let me know

Quit question for any of you guys. My fiance just left for BCT on Wed. He had prior shoulder surgery 5 years ago. THe recruiter told him to lie about it. Before he even began BCT he hurt his shoulder. WHat are his chances of getting a medical discharge? Or will they keep him and make him suffer?

Thanks, Im just worried

Holy Shit, I can't believe I found this site. I have to admit, I can see both sides of the argument here...but mostly I have to say I find Aaron to be the Voice of Reason. I 'enlisted' (not really my choice actually) in the Navy when I was 17 in 1990, and was tops in my boot camp company. But when I got to "A" school I fell flat on my face....started doing acid and didn't give a shit about doing well, hated being a 'booter' and got really sick of being confined and treated like a douchebag by the half-assed bunghole 2nd Classes who ran our outfit, etc. I ended up getting busted with a fake ID (which I stole from another guy in boot and taped to the back of mine in the days when they had those 2-sided laminated ID's) because one of the tools I roomed with ratted on me...some of my bros conspired to help me get the hell out and one of them stole a car off the base in which I motored the fuck out of there (from Treasure Island, what an oxymoron that is) and ran out of gas in Nevada where I was arrested in at a truckstop by local police and put in a holding facility for juvenile delinquents (I was still only 17). When they figured out I was in the Navy they put me on a plane back to SF where I was picked up by the butthole 2nd Classes from my school and popped straight into the brig. Boy, that was a nightmare. After 3 months of solitary they finally put me in the GP and after another month of that they put me up in front of a General Court Martial. I didn't give a shit by then, just bawled my face off and asked to get out. They put me back in the brig for another couple months while they took their time processing me out, then I got to work in TPU picking up cigarette butts and scraping gum off the sidewalks for a couple weeks. When I got out I had a lot of trouble getting my life on track...spent several years bouncing around, working dickhead jobs and wasting my life away. I finally got a clue and realized I wasn't the piece of shit the Navy had made me feel like. The sum of my experience in the Navy was that no less than 80% of the people I was exposed to were either sadistic predators or just plain incompetent. I know what I did was wrong, and I've never tried to say I wasn't responsible for my actions. I just blew it, like lots of things in my life before and since. However, the OTH I got has never effected my life in any way. I went on to graduate from college with a degree in Russian language, and I now live and work in Kazakhstan. When I look back at how shitty my life was during those nine months (more than five spent in the brig), I just wish I had never been there in the first place. For those of you worried about getting on with your lives after an OTH, don't. Just get on with it. No one gives a rat's ass. Especially in this day and age, when we are living under 'questionable' circumstances. There are plenty of employers out there who don't have a hell of a lot of respect for what the military has been/is doing, and the only ones who might check are government employers. Anyone who has been in the military and gotten an OTH should know better than to seek employment with the government anyway. Leave it off your application and go along your merry way, and work on improving your life. What you should really think about is whether or not you're on the right track...drugs are bad, cuz hippies do drugs, and hippies suck. I haven't smoked weed in quite a while myself, though I wouldn't mind. The thing is I plan to come back to the States at some point and know that our fascist state essentially mandates that any poor soul who wants to apply for a job must take a piss test. So, I cheerfully abstain. Do what works for you and you'll prevail in the end. Cheers to you all, my fellow OTH'ers! Shouldn't someone make a national gathering for us or something? They seem to have that shit for just about everyone else!!!

I do not necisarily agree with the statement "hippies suck," but other than that I think that last feedback was fairly accurate.

lets put him in jail for a while until we figure out how we want to punish him, etc.

and the whole "your life is ruined" bullshit they try to feed ya... its just not true. move on and be done with it, etc.

Sorry Aaron, I was quoting Cartman again...:)

I SIGNED UP FOR 3 YRS IN THE ARMY IN 98. I STILL WAS THINKING I WAS IN A HIGH SCHOOL AND TRIED TO ACT LIKE SOMEONE I WASNT AND TO PROVE IT TO MY "HOMEBOYS" I WENT AWOL WITHOUT THINKING OF THE CONSEQUENCES. I ENDED UP RECIEVING AN OTH DISCHARGE. NOW I AM MARRIED WITH THREE YOUNG CHILDREN AND DISCOVERED THAT I REALLY AM A FAMILY MAN. I TRIED TO GET BACK INTO THE ARMY BUT I GOT AN RE4. I ALSO CANNOT ENJOY THE BENEFITS LIKE THE VA LOAN OR THE MONTGOMERY GI BILL(WHICH LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I PAYED 1200 DOLLARS FOR). I TRIED TO SEND A UPGRADE BUT I WAS DENIED. I AM ALSO WILLING TO GO IN FRONT OF THE BOARD, BUT I AM WORRIED WITH NO REPRESENTATION I WILL BE DENIED. IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE, PLEASE SEND IT. BY THE WAY THE KNUCKELHEADED THING IS I LEFT WITH ONLY 6 MONTHS LEFT ON MY CONTRACT. PLEASE HELP

Just a quick question: popped for valium (schedual VI) want to get back in. I am keeping this short and sweet as I am sure you have heard enough crying by now. OTH for a controlled substance... hmm, heard it does not fly, but... really? Is there no other way back in? Yadda-yadda... got short changed like everyone else. Currently have about 2+ years as a productive member of society, working, paying taxes. Does that mean anything at all... the daily grind is getting to me and I am looking to get back in if I can. Contacted my county exec before going all the way. Any advice? Am I waisting my time and energy?

actually i think there is a way to get back in but why would you want to. when i got kicked out for staroids they said something about being able to get back in because of the type of dischare oth. but why would you want to all the millitary is, is cilvilived slavery

Hello, I was 17 when I went into the navy 4 weeks after graduation from High School. I was in from Aug 89 to Oct 92 served on two ships USS Raleigh Lpd-1 during Desert Storm. After decommishion went too Holy Loch Scotland too USS Simon Lake AS-33. All was well until I went too Simon Lake then started haveing trouble. Started smokeing pot with the Dead Heads I was living with and failed a drug test. I wish I could go back and change the things I did but I cant so we have too live with it. I regret I did what I did due too the fact I embarased my self and my family at home. I have thought about trying too change my discharge but probably willnot. I no longer use drugs or drink and have changed my life around but it offends me that a stupid decision I made when I was 20 still effects me now and will always the rest of my life. I have done well since getting out of the Navy but in my mind I still think about it alot,dream about it alot,wake up in the middle of the night in cold sweet thinking im still on the ship on restriction waiting to be discharged. I didnt do it to get kicked out I did it cause I liked it. I had been doing it since I was 13 so I told the recruiter I had and he said we would just say I tried it once. I vote and I am currently applying to get my Hand gun carry permit but I dont know if it will effect it any. I probably will not mention my OTH to them because I know Im not the same person I was in 92. Its a form of discrimination is my opinion if you cant do something because of something as small as smokeing weed 13 years ago but oh how society likes too discriminate. Oh well My advice is if you are planing to use drugs to get discharged dont. Try to hang in there and get some help I let things get on my mind easily and get me down maybe you are not like that but then again maybe you are. I hated the Navy and wanted out but not the way it happend cant do much about it now.
Peace

I wonder if it is an automatic reversal if I go all the way to Virginia to go before the discharge board for going awol. I currently live in albuquerque which is probably closer to South America than virginia. I just dont wanna waste my money . any advice

Do the military keeps paying you while on a military mental institution? I think I am going to be "locked" for a while and want to make sure I will still receive my check so I can keep my bills on check.

Hi Jimmy
sometimes they may and sometimes they may cut part of your pay. thats the beauty of the military, you never know when you will wake up in a mental institution receiving so little pay that your world outside financially falls apart for you.

My boyfriend got kicked out of the Navy under OTH nearly 8 months ago for popping on a piss test...cocaine. He served 8 years and was an IT1 with a great record. He was the best at what he did and everyone knew it. Its been 6 months now so he can apply for an upgrade but what are the chances of that panning out and where does he start. He still has not found a reputable job and I'm wondering if this is because of employers knowing about his discharge...are my chances of having a secure future with him low because of this OTH?

Two options Rudy

your boyfriend can worry about the OTH and carry negative karma and bitterness with him

-OR-

he can forget it ever happened, fail to mention his terms of discharge, and continue on with life

it may take a bit to find a decent job because the current leaders of the country are economically fucking it up

Thanks for the quick response!

If we fail to mention terms of discharge, should we fail to mention that we were in the military at all. If no, what if we were asked about the terms of discharge. Lie ?

>If we fail to mention terms of discharge, should we fail to mention that we were in the military at all.

this depends on the job type and your age of course. if you are 35 its hard to say you have been doing nothing for the last xx years. if you are younger its easier to not mention.

>If no, what if we were asked about the terms of discharge. Lie ?

well I dont think you need to lie as its easy to manipulate percepttion without actually lying.

Q: so why did you get out of the military?

A: my time was up. It wasn't really what I was hoping for and am moving on. -OR-

A: my time was up. I only joined to go to college, but in the end I decided not to go back to school. -OR-

A: my time was up. I only joined to make my xyz proud, but I am a bit too ambitious for that lifestyle.

A: Family illness. My time was just about up and I had to go home and take care of some stuff.

etc.

and its not lying to say that your time was up, because one way or another your time is up when you leave.

Perception, tone, and framing are the key elements to having your terms of discharge go unquestioned. If you don't act like its a big deal some people may not ask about it. Additionally most people don't expect you to have gotten kicked out, its just not how most people think.

Additionally some people realize some things are just bullshit and the terms of discharge do not mean much.

Good site Aaron. I too was fucked over pretty good by the Navy. What Aaron says is right though-don;t let the Navy make you think you are a piece of shit. There isn't a person anywhere on this planet that never made a mistake-especially in the military. As for Re-4's don't worry the Navy hands those out like candy. Yes we broke rules but they were not deserving of that grade of discharge. Remember those Army reservists that refused to drive convoy in Iraq? They got in less trouble than most on this board and those that were cut got better discharges than I did. Fuck the Navy.

For those of you interested in serving again there is a way. (I hope you don't mind me posting this Aaron) You can get a waiver in the Army National Guard (reserves too but its harder) and after a time go active if you like. If not you serve your time and get a brand new dd-214 when you are done.
I did it. And another guy I know with an Re-4 from Navy did it too. We are both much happier and much higher ranks than we were in the Navy too! Go figure.

There are literally thousands of us "Navy rejects" that go on to lead productive lives-even back in the military.
Go here and click on message board to get started:
http://www.usnca.org/
Read through the threads and you may find a recruiter to help you. If not look in your area. Be warned some recruiters regardless of branch are dickheads so you have to keep trying and some just don't know/understand the waiver process. You may have to try outside your city or state but be persistent!

Dude, I just found out like 6 years after receiving an OTHER THAN HONORABLE discharge from the marines that they could be appealed and possibly upgraded. Mine was for MISCONDUCT, I have a job but it sucks, and I feel like I've been missing out on so much because of this OTH. Are any of you guys from Georgia, so you can give me some detailed advice on what routes to take to try to get this thing straightened out? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.

Greg,

I see you posted on the Navy board but I am still not sure what you are looking for. An upgrade or trying to go back into the service?

If you just want your discharge upgraded you will have to go to a review board. I don't like being negative or discouraging but frankly I doubt they will change it. It will take a good deal of time and effort so good luck if you choose this route. I have never heard of the Navy doing it-remember they gave the damn thing to you in the first place. I am not saying it never happens but it is pretty rare. Here is a link to get you started and you can google the rest.
http://www.court-martial.com/awol_ua.htm

Also google appealing a navy re-4 and the like to get an idea of what you will be dealing with.
Good luck!

I was young and stupid and to this day have regreted asking to be let out. They gave me a RE4 code and a OTH. I watch higher ups get away with the same things i was punished for. Even an E5 who was arrested for a DUI and running from base police only recieve restriction. I would like to reenlist. Does anyone know how i should go about it or if i even have a chance.

when you get an OTH discharge for a positive drug test is it possible to get it changed to a general discharge? Thanks!

Just found out I cant get my handgun carry permit due too my OTH from the Navy. I could lie about it and risk them finding out due too the fact that the FBI dos a background check in the process. It costs 115.00 for the check and im not going too risk them discovering the OTH cause I would loose my money and possibly face charges for not giveing the info. I was not aware that a OTH would cause that kind of trouble almost like being labeled a terrorist but I bet that they could get the permit LOL.

>when you get an OTH discharge for a positive drug test is it possible to get it changed to a general discharge?

a guy who was in restriction with me got a general discharge. it depends on the "command climate" and how much of a "team player" you were before getting in trouble.

command climate = how miserable are the crew and officers
team player = were you an ass kiss

U.S. Code on how to change your discharge. Good Luck, you'll need it.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/08aug20031600/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/julqtr/32cfr70.8.htm

Whoever it may concern,

I will be graduating college very soon, I have an impressive resume but because I got kicked out of the military for substance abuse it is very difficult to get police departments to take me seriously. I would greatly appreciate any advice, I would be willing to pay some serious money to anyone who could sincerely help me get this resolved. Thank you

HELLO FELLOW OTH'ers,

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY MOST OF US HAVE BEEN IN THIS BOAT AWHILE, POPPING POSITIVE FOR MARYJANE. I FOR ONE KNOW THAT IT WAS A STUPID THING TO DO I WAS A 4.0 SAILOR COMING INTO MY COMMAND. JUST GOT MARRIED AND WAS TRYING TO HAVE KIDS WITH MY BRIDE. WELL I WENT ON A WEEK DEPLOYMENT OFF THE CA COAST, GOT BACK AND FOUND THAT DURING MY ABSENCE MY WIFE HAD BEEN TO THE NAVAL DR. WHILE THEY PROCEEDED TO GIVE HER SOME KIND OF MEDICINE TOLD HER SHE WAS NOT PREGNATE AND SENT HER HOME.
WHEN I RETURNED HOME MY WIFE OPENED THE DOOR AND HANDED ME A FETUS WRAPPED IN TP. I WAS FLOORED. I TOOK MY WIFE BACK TO THE NAV DOC AND DEMANDED AN EXPLANATION THE SR. OFFICER PROCEEDED TO TELL ME THE TEST THEY TOOK WERE NOT READABLE, I CUSSED HIM OUT AND TOLD HIM THEY WERE A BUNCH OF HACKS THAT KILLED MY KID THEN LEFT, THE NEXT DAY I REPORTED THE INCIDENT TO MY COMMAND, THEY SAID THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO, SO I ASKED TO BE DISCHARGED IMMEDIATLY AGAIN I WAS TOLD THIS WAS NOT GOING TO BE DONE EITHER. I WAS PISSED SO I WENT TO A NEIGHBORS HOUSE SAT AND GOT HIGH WHILE THINKING THE NAVY DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT WHY SHOULD I THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY. BULLSHIT YOUR FAMILY IS ON THERE OWN. SO WHAT I AM SAYING DUE TO THE CIRCUIMSTANCES I GUESS I MAY HAVE OVER REACTED BUT ON THE SAME HAND THE NAVY DROPPED THERE STANDARDS OF PROTECTING MY INTEREST AND MY FAMILY. I TODAY AM DISABLED DUE TO INJURIES RECEIVED FROM CONSTRUCTION WORK, RE-MARRIED, AND STILL TODAY REGRET WHAT I DID. I LOVED BEING IN THE NAVY AND I MISS MY JOB. BUT LIFE GOES ON AS THEY SAY. JUST FELT LIKE SHARING. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL SHIPPIES AND SEE YOU ON THE FLIP SIDE. HEY MARINES, BIG SEMPER FI TO YOU CAMP PENDELTON BOYS. IT WAS A PLEASURE SERVING WITH YOU ALL.

I called the GI rights hotline and they told me the easiest way to get out is to file for consiensous objector (sp?)....Anyway they told me the process could take 6months even up to a year. Has anyone ever tried this or does anyone know of this working? Please let me know...

I deleted the two page post about muslims being evil because
a.) I think its bullshit
b.) it has nothing to do with the topic of this page
c.) if the US faulters the type of imploding that would occur would be an economic one, and blind support of bullshit wars helps that along. so thanks but no thanks on that one.

I have a different story, and am not afraid to tell. I have been to Captain's Mast once for disrespect, UA, and direlection of duty. I was "awarded" 30/30 half months pay for 1 month. And a page 13 saying I'd be good for at least 6 months. Well it has been six months and 8 days since then. I am being put on report for being 5 minutes late to conduct colors (let the flag down). Thinking about going UA, because the Navy is not for everyone, or even so, it has many "non-sense" rules. But mainly the Navy is uncaring to it's members. I am and airdel Sailor so many of you know what I mean. Working 20- 36 hours straight, getting quals, eating, washing our ass maybe, and sleep please. Enough wining, just looking for a way out. By the way I really am gay, so not quite sure how that can help, just looking for some guidance as to how to get out honorable, or get an OTH made into an honorable based on maybe slander, and some more whining bullshit. Don't get me wrong, this was/is a mistake, but I accepted it in Boot Camp, but the Navy is too impersonal. They say they'll help you, but only to their advantage, and when they think help is needed. Please somebody somewhere help me. Thanks, me and my man would appreciateit.

Thank you Aaron for this site.
Our son, a nuc, just went before Captain's Mast for positive cocaine as result of drunken night on town. He waived rights, provided honest confession as we have always told him to tell the truth then received max plus recommendation for OTH. He received Honorable discharge at earlier re-enlistment. Has applied for hearing with Administrative Discharge Board. What is best course not to receive OTH? Should we write our congressional representatives and will it help? JAG prosecutor told him he would have a snowballs chance in hell to avoid OTH.

Please help.

Loving parents

Hi Tom
I am not sure if I can easily answer that question for you. If you know people who are well tied into the government you basically can bypass most of the bad deals. Otherwise I am unsure.

I know a friend was about to get discharged at his request. He decided not to, but all it would take would be a request from one of his congressmen. Not sure if its the same after someone gets in trouble though.

Thank you Aaron for fast response.

Not connected at all. Will it do any harm to involve representatives if possible?

Tom

An other than honorable is really not a big deal IMHO. maybe your kid does not get help with the cost of college but other than that I don't see the real benefit in most of the other benefits.

to put the situation in perspective, I got an other than honorable discharge and my roommate and other friend both got honorable ones. yet I created my own business and they both get most of their income from work I provide them.

the other than honorable discharge will ruin your life stuff is just scare tactic bullshit.

-they want to scare the person and make them feel like a failure for life
-they want to use that person as an example of what happens to bad people who fail to conform. this way they can try to make people think the alternative (of getting out) is far worse than the shitty life the military offers.

in all reality the facts don't stack up with their story though. right now I can go whereever I want, whenever I want to, I have no boss, etc. Far better than the shit the navy served me for almost 6 years.

Thank You,. Our son was never in any trouble prior to Navy. We believe he will do well when he gets out. Would just like for him not to have the OTH. I read earlier that it helps to have the Honorable Discharge that he received at re-enlistment. Does a DD214 come with that? Is it a good idea to hire a lawyer to represent him at the board facing the JAG who has already said he did not have a snowball's chance in hell of receiving anything other than the OTH?

Hi Tom

here is the lowdown on the lawyer front. do not let the navy know you are hiring a lawyer, but they screw up the paperwork on many of the cases. the case can be thrown out if the paperwork is screwed up.

if you can afford a lawyer you may want to hire one and have him look through the paperwork without the navy knowing. then see where you should go from there.

My son joined the Mariene Corp and is in boot camp in San Diego. To make a long story short, we have been receiving letters from him and he is consdering committing sucide. He says he can not indure the mental part of the training. I need some help I feel helpless I don't know what to do.

Hi Hal
you need to use your own judgement to find out whether or not your kid wants to be in the marines and how he would react to you helping him.

in all reality he may want to visit the chaplain or your can talk to the chaplain about the situation.

OK, HERE'S WHATS UP! DONT DO ANYTHING STUPID THAT WILL GET YOU AN OTH...BUY SOME HOMO MAGS, SAY YOU HAVE A GAY LOVER...POSSIBLY A FRIEND WHO WILL VOUCH FOR YOU...THEN HOPE YOU GET AN HONORABLE...IF YOU DONT, THEN GUESS WHAT...IN SOCIETY IF ANYONE DENIES YOU WORK BECAUSE OF IT THEY'ER DISCRIMINATING AGAIST YOU FOR BEING "GAY"...WHICH IS A HATE CRIME, SO DONT BE STUPID...SAY YOU'ER GAY!!! AND STOP CONTEMPLATING WAYS TO GET AN OTH, I.E. FAILED PISS TEST, ETC...

Oh, and Hal M...your son needs to leave the marines now...he needs to be discharged,..you need to contact his unit and tell them that he's suicidal and if they dont do anything then you have grounds to sue the federal government if your son kills himself or anyone...

It is really sad when the navy say's you are malingering when in fact you are serious.It is really a shame that the navy has that kind of behavior.

They will know it is a serious problem when it is too late.

i got discharged with a general other than honorable in 2003. i am trying to see what is the best way to get it upgraded because i feel i was unjustly discharged. i was a truck driver in civilian life and had to miss drills (i was a reservist) but i did get the ok from my platoon commander. i made up all of my drills and have the paperwork to prove i did so but when i sent it to my reserve center they lost a faxed copy and the copy i handed them. i got a letter saying i was discharged later that year. i went to the reserve center and talked to the c.o. he told me that he would sign off on adminstrative error if i had the paperwork. i had very detailed records of when i called my c.o and why i had to miss the drill. when he saw these records he told one of the staff sgts that he did not want anything to do with it and did not help me any. my platoon commander told me to call my congressman but i was told there are other avenues i can take. does anyone have any suggestions and how long would it take to get a discharge upgraded?

I got out of the Marines on a medical discharge, re-3p, would love to join back it, would it be possible for me to go back in? by the way I also got a severance pay, I did my 4 years... or who would I need to contact to upgrade my dd214? thanks,
Hal, as far as your kid goes in bootcamp with the the suicide thing.. contact his recruiter and let them know that you need to get to them right away, or contact, the red cross, they work just as fast.

This is directed to Aaron, I do agree with you that the discharge means shit and it shouldn't hold you back in your life..I to have been pretty sucessful despite having a OTH. The only regret I have towards it is the impression it may or may not leave on my children/grandchildren, but hopefully I have raised them well enough to not judge someone by a piece of paper, judge them for who they are and realize we are human and will make mistakes till the day we die. So I have looked into appealing my oth, just beginning actually and I may stop here with advice from you and your readers. Requested copies of my DD214 and service record (destroyed mine upon discharge in 1990) All I received was my dd214... wheres my evals, ratings, letters of commendation, etc?
Do I have to request for them elsewhere?
Box 24 on dd214 says other than honorable, box 25 says milpersman 3630600, box 26 says HKQ, box 28 says misconduct-commision of a serious offense.
As far as I can dig up on the net these codes conflict with each other, can I do something about it? Misconduct-commision of a serious offense is just bullshit, I never hurt anyone, I told my division officer off and failed to "follow a direct order". I was drunk when I joined the navy and drunk all thru it! At Mast they had me so scared I would have signed anything(Making big rock into little rocks at Treasure Island, that kind of shit) Should they not have offered me substance abuse/treatment? Its been almost 7 years since my last drink and I realize that I have been an alcoholic all my life, I am not trying to "get-off" easy. Its been 15 years this month since my discharge could this prevent me from pursuing.
I know this jumps all over but it is just a summary. More than likely I will follow the advice/recommendations given here, which ever they may be. My kids are still to young(11 and 8) to explain this to them, All People around me judge me for me, including my employers(Have been a structural engineer since the day I got out).
Any and all advice will be appreciated.
Thank you Aaron for developing this site, any time I get pissed off about my dd214, I can log on here and be relieved!!! Thanks again

Hi Pab
thanks for your honesty and comments.

I don't have the answers to your question. just when they pissed me off I made a site about it. I now rank well for my old boat name, discharge types, types of boats, forms they send people, etc.

THe problems occur when there are no support network and no feedback loops we get to be segmented. As individuals we are made to feel bad about how we are horible human beings.

Lets not forget that we are human. We all make mistakes. My mistake was not using drugs, but even joining the military in the first place. The fact that I made it along as far as I did is a testimate to my will power.

Lets not forget that the people judging us get paid to kill people. What do they know about humanity? Why should we carry their opinions or mindframes forward in our lives?

Most people shouldn't.

cheers
aaron

An interesting site. I got an OTH from the USMC in 1983, I've never had any employer check on my discharge. They make it sound when you get out like it's some big deal, but it's not. The only draw back is if you apply for any VA benefits. An OTH doesn't exclude you from benefits, but they can depending on the circumstances surrounding your discharge, mainly persistent and willful misconduct. I've always put on any application I got an honorable, the only way they can get any information on you is to file under the freedom of information act, and that's unlikely. They don't just give out personal information, you would have to sign a release for them to get it.

And in the night of death, hope sees a star, and listening love hears the rustle of a wing.

Here's a link if you want to request any of your military records.

http://www.archives.gov/research_room/vetrecs/index.html

i was booted from the navy in 1990 because i got busted on a drug screen for thc. thats fine but the pisser of it is that when i went before captains mass there was a nother shipmate in trouble for a crack cocain deal that involved the shooting of a civilian, yet that airman got to stay in and all he recieved was a reduction in rate and they revoked his flight deck status. all i did was get with the wrong people and got seen smoking a very small joint in st. thomas. it really suks to me because every male in my family all the way back to the revolutionary war was in the navy. so i got rode hard when i came home. a side from all that the captian of my ship, the Saratoga , was going in front of the man for killing a little girl while DUI, so i figure he proably wanted to take as many out as he could since he would no longer be in command of a sea going vessle ever again. my whole life all i wanted to do was follow the family way and be a 4.0 sailor, and surprisingly enough still do. but i guess uncle sam don't give a shit about anyones feelings on any subject.

Hey all!

First off I wanted to say thanks to Aaron for creating a site to help and guide people in this subject. Keep up the good work! We all appreciate it!

As for me I went UA in Basic in the US Army in 2003. I was your basic Infantryman. I was UA for 45 days and turned myself in at the gates of Fort Sill, OK where the paperwork is processed faster and closer to my hometown. They processed me in out with an OTH in no kidding 6 days! Right now I've never been happier. I been working at a business that pays me decently for only being 19 and working with them since I got out. Oh by the way I was foolish at 17 and signed my delayed entry program forms and left for basic 2 weeks after high school graduation. I'm not going to get into too much detail but since Aaron you're helping people mostly from the Navy and some from Marines... if you don't have a problem anyone that needs help from the US Army that are/will be UA drop me a line I can help out with any extra info or advice to make things easier.

Never looked back and to be honest was the best decision I made when there were problems at home. Never had problems getting a job and life has been awesome without the Army on my back.

Later all,
Brad

ok ive been in the active army for over 3yrs, im about to get chaptered, do i still keep my gi bill since i paid it off already or no?

well disregard the question i asked, i found out you dont get it even if you already paid it off

Where can I find more information about an RE4 code?

I was just recently discharged from the usmc i got an oth and i was wondering how long it takes to get back to honorable or if i should just go an enlist in the army nationalguard for a year please help soon

if you read Mike's last two posts those are the exact type of judgemental close minded people you will be working with if / when you join the military.

Mike just posted a third message which was so offensive that I had to remove it. He was trying to add noise to this thread to make it less useful.

I appreciate all the useful contributions most people posting to this thread are making and will not let this person destroy the quality of the thread to show their shame and guilt about their own life choices.

ok im the guy who asked about the gi bill, I just want to distance myself from the other mike or Mike, cause i didnt write anything like that

ok are you still eligible for grant money if you got an other than honorable, cause i have no college courses or anything, so my job choices are pretty limited, id aprecciate any info you guyd might have

ok are you still eligible for grant money if you got an other than honorable, cause i have no college courses or anything, so my job choices are pretty limited, id aprecciate any info you guyd might have

hi real Mike
I actually got a job and they did not ask about my info. then I stopped working for them and started working on the web.

I do not know the answers to those questions right now as schooling is not the path I took. the path I took was to screw around on the web, hence this page.

once you do research into the topic though if you could post your findings here that would be awesome.

wish you the best of luck and if you truely want to do well then you still can. many people do not mesh well with the military.

cheers
aaron

My son just got out of the good old USMC with an OTH. You do qualify for grant money for school. You'll need to go to Fafse.ed.gov and fill out the application to apply. The only way you wouldn't qualify is if you had a dishonorable discharge. They will also consider you and independent because you are a veteran even with an OTH....how ironic they kick people out of the military and the government still helps fund your education. I hope this information helps you. Good luck -

My son got 'the boot' for a postive ua...
his last day was feb. 25, he found himself a job 2 days before that and was honest about what and why he got kicked out. So... thanks for the positive feed back. Good Luck to all of you. Life does go on!! Peace
Shelley

Thanks for the info, I already got everything setup after i read all the info you guys gave me.
I'm my own 2 feet and will remain so

Does anyone know where a person can go to see what the Army chapters are that people can be released under?

Thanks!

I got a OTH from the Navy in Dec03. It's been over a year(now March05) and I am now certified WA EMT-B and want to go into the Army Combat Medic program. If anyone has help on how to get an OTH/RE-4 changed to where one can go back into service, please contact me ASAP at Novafreak64@Yahoo.Com. Thank you anyone! ~Thomas~

Hey guys, this is the most helpfull sight of all! I am really bumming because I just got issued an OTH but am still here stuck on the ship for three months straight. I feel my OTH was unjust and college means the world to me. DOes anybody have a definate answer as to how this will affect my GI bill? I really think that if they take that away from you then it is only right for them to pay back the damn money that you put into it out of your paycheck.. Please reply about the college info..

to whom it may concern.
im getting discharged out of the army on a 14-12b misconduct what the worse that can happen with an oth? every body in my chain of command said im fuck for life is this true? Im not a drugie or any thing like that im just trying to drive on.
thanks

If you only got an OTH it is generally no big deal and you command is lying to you.

generally when kicking people out of the military the chain of command can be some of the nastiest most spiteful and most horrible people in the world.

when people tell you how stuff will be you can either accept it as fact or make good things happen.

you dont have to make an OTH discharge stick with you and really it is not that big of a deal.

My boyfriend got the boot from the USMC just 8 months shy of finishing his 4 year enlistment term. He got an OTH shortly after having knee surgery in August. We weren't expecting him home on Christmas Eve, but there he was knocking on my door telling me he was home for good, that they seperated him on an OTH that morning. My question is, and I've read a lot of your posts saying that it's going to be hard for any military personnel to find a job between 3 and 6 months out, and I've also read where if you don't mention it chances are an employer won't find out about it, hence "Don't tell if they ask"?

What benefits should he get? Is it really worth fighting the DRB to get it upgraded or are we better off saving our money and using it for something more productive? And also, can they really give you an OTH for having an injury or is there something else to this that he isn't telling me?

Or is it true, and his chain of command really are a bunch of assholes?

>justin, as far as i know you have to have an honorable discharge to get your gi bill, cause im not getting mine and i already paid it off

I was diagnosed with Multiple Schlerosis in 2001. My neurologist says that my condition existed for at least 10 years prior to that and may be military service related. Where do I go to find out what I can do about it. I am currently permanently disabled and am unable to work.

I was diagnosed with agoraphobia. They ask me if i wanted to stay or go. I was 19 and i had a baby on the way, so i got out.Now i am starting to think that it was the biggest mistake of my young life. Well now i am 23 and i want to get back in Can someone please help me?

Marcus what kind of discharge was it? General, General Under OTH, General Under Honorable with Medical listed as the SPN code or what?? If your RE code is RE4 the only chance you have is going National Guard. Talk to a recruiter about it, although I think you did the right thing by getting out and being there for your child and the mother. You were there during all of the baby's important stages.

Thomas, four words: Naval Discharge Review Board
three more words: Good F*#)*'n Luck!

It's a long, drawn out, pain in the ass process, and you definately do NOT want a JAG or a public pretender for a lawyer. This crap is going to cost you big bucks, and take forever, and chances are they still won't upgrade it.

What happens if you are being offered an OTH for what used to be failure to adapt. Isn't that a general discharge? What can I do to not recieve that discharge

depends tammy, on whether you want out or not. Just go straight to your CO, a Sgt Maj, or Lt. Col will do just fine, and tell them you're gay / lesbian. They'll kick you out immediately with an honorable, and you wont have to waste your time and or money later trying to fight the incompetent morons.

Aaron,

Your site is filled with comments from people who refuse to be held accountable for their actions. I guess it is easier to blame your Chain of Command, the Navy, the DALLAS, or whatever other myriad of things you care to blame for your inability to do your job, but hundreds of thousands of sailors come to work every day, and do theirs. Of course not all of them like it, but they don't use drugs or lie about being gay, or go UA, or commit suicide, they do the job, they do their time, and they go home.

I find it interesting that you make out Nuc ET to be this incredibly difficult job, one that was so stressful that you didn't ever get time off, and considered taking your own life to get out of the job. I have 10 years of time on 2 different subs, one boomer, and one fast attack, and I remember throwing Spades or burning flicks with an awful lot of nukes.....maybe you were the only one in the Navy that worked 24 hours a day.

So continue to blame the system for your shortcomings, continue to lie about your discharge to your employers, continue to flaunt your incredible wealth, and super job (which I of course think is bullshit) to all these young men and women whose lives are also ruined by their decisions, but for Pete's sake do two things for me.

1. Have some respect for those people who continue to serve their country Honorably, and who protect your ability to post this drivel.

2. Use spell check.

~ Active Duty Navy, LDO, and Lovin' It.

>Your site is filled with comments from people who refuse to be held accountable for their actions.

...or people who did not fit in or did not care to fit into a system that has zero empathy and no respect for human life.

>I guess it is easier to blame your Chain of Command, the Navy, the DALLAS, or whatever other myriad of things you care to blame for your inability to do your job, but hundreds of thousands of sailors come to work every day, and do theirs.

what is the retention rate of submarine nuclear ETs? how much of a bonus does the navy need to give people to resign? a big number. hmm. wonder what is up with that?

>Of course not all of them like it, but they don't use drugs or lie about being gay, or go UA, or commit suicide, they do the job, they do their time, and they go home.

this is the problem in the navy. this is the typical sailor right here. if you don't fit in then you are a horrible person who should be treated with no respect.

that is the main message this honorable sailor has to offer.

>I find it interesting that you make out Nuc ET to be this incredibly difficult job, one that was so stressful that you didn't ever get time off, and considered taking your own life to get out of the job.

where did I say it was incredibly difficult? it was more horrific on the front of the environmental effects and complete lack of social, physical, or mental activity.

perhaps better read as: some animals should not be caged.

>I have 10 years of time on 2 different subs, one boomer, and one fast attack, and I remember throwing Spades or burning flicks with an awful lot of nukes.....maybe you were the only one in the Navy that worked 24 hours a day.

in your off hours. when you were not working. where were you? hmm. the sub.

• not really "home"
  
• no sunlight
  
• low oxygen levels
  
• shitty food
  
• no family
  
• no girlfriend
  
• told that you can not excercise
  
• surrounded by mostly depressed people

>So continue to blame the system for your shortcomings,

I have no regrets. the navy what made me wealthy and helped me find my job. am proud of the service I did.

>continue to lie about your discharge to your employers,

• I have no employer other than myself.
• I have this site. it is fairly honest about my type of discharge. no lies here my friend.
• I even find talking about my term of discharge as a good ice breaker in casual conversation.

>continue to flaunt your incredible wealth, and super job (which I of course think is bullshit)

and so long as you are close minded and believe the navy is the best thing since sliced bread it really does not matter what else is out there.

or at least not until the day you realize it.

>to all these young men and women whose lives are also ruined by their decisions,

if an other than honorable discharge actually ruined your life then why would anyone even consider joining? many many many people go to captains mast or courts martial. many people get OTH discharges.

>1. Have some respect for those people who continue to serve their country Honorably, and who protect your ability to post this drivel.

for that reason this page exists. I realize that the terms of discharge does not dictate the quality of a person.

>2. Use spell check.

"Correct" spelling, indeed, is one of the arts that are far more esteemed by schoolma'ams than by practical men, neck-deep in the heat and agony of the world. - H.L. MENCKEN

so unlike some of the people here who have admittedly used and are trying to get out of an OTH, what about those that DIDN'T use?
well i'll tell you. as stupid as the story sounds it's true.
my husband popped for weed in december which was a complete surprise to him. days later when he was talking with a friend about what happened it came to light that some brownies my husband ate while at drunk at a friends house, were pot brownies (who in the hell does that anymore??). according to the test, he had 39 nanograms in his system, the navy tests for 19, which is SEVERELY low. civilian employers look for AT LEAST 100 nanograms in their dug tests. so begrudgingly we took the demotion, from e5 to e4 and just planned on making his case during drb. drb came and went and we went to admin board. admin board decided to toss him on the street. well all fine and dandy if they don't want to believe him, if there were not family involved, it wouldn't be so hard to swallow. want to know what makes this story oh so worse?? our 7 year old son is battling cancer for the second time and is currently in the middle of chemotherapy. his command was WELL aware of this and STILL decided to kick him out... WITH AN OTH.
i am FURIOUS to the point that i want to hurt someone, and i don't care because i'm civilian. our son was originally diagnosed with cancer when he was four. he was able to beat the cancer once, but the cancer came back in feb 04. his care right now is critical to his survival. and the navy turned their back on him like it was nothing. we've struggled with the navy for the entire length of his disease. my husband could barely get the time off needed to take our son in for appointments or thereapy. he was always asked assinine questions, had it been an officer's son that had cancer... nothing would have ever been questioned.
i feel like i should take this to media. i'm sure they navy wouldn't like it to be made public that they really DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT FAMILY. cuz when it comes down to it... your family didn't come in your seabag right?
so on top of losing the healthcare for my son, we'll have to move out of our apartment and uproot him from what he knows and what he's comfortable in during the time in his life where home is his salvage away from the hospital... did the officer fucks give second thought to that as they left admin board laughing and joking???
zero tolerance is bullshit, it should be ripped and burned. i know there must have been other instances where people have been unknowingly drugged, are they all kicked out with the same prejudice??? how fair is that?
we even tried to have our friend write a statement telling what happened, but he's too much of a fag and afraid HE'LL get busted... he's civilian.
the only area of the navy i haven't had a problem with is the hospital. with having spent so much time there with our son, they have given him the best care available, and i'll never have a bad thing to say about that. i'm to this day GRATEFUL for the doctors who have cared for him.
fleet can go to hell
read this story and tell me if the zero tolerance punishment fits the "crime"... the crime that never even happened.

military may protect and serve the country, but they leave their own out in the cold... and piss on them

I am only going to dignify one part of your retort with one of my own, I am not a typical sailor, if you would have read the entire post you would see that I am an LDO, obviously someone who loves my job, and who has been around for a while....but I digress, let's examine this point:

>Of course not all of them like it, but they don't use drugs or lie about being gay, or go UA, or commit suicide, they do the job, they do their time, and they go home.

this is the problem in the navy. this is the typical sailor right here. if you don't fit in then you are a horrible person who should be treated with no respect.

that is the main message this honorable sailor has to offer.

~ At what point did I say if you don't fit in you are a horrible person, there are varying degrees of sailors, some great, who strive to be advanced, and know that this is what they want to do for the rest of their lives, I count myself among those, then there are sailors who are average, who bitch somedays, and laugh others, no problem with them either. Of course you also have the problem children, I spend 95% of each day dealing with these sailors, trying to make them buck up, instead of bucking the system. With some, I have been succesful, with some I have failed. Whether they re-enlist, or decide to move on to another job, if they are prepared at the end of their time, and get an HONORABLE discharge, I consider it a success. If, like the young man I just sent to the brig, they get out with a OTH, I have failed.

With drugs, only one person has failed, the person who used. Your depression, your "destroyed" evals, your chain-of-command, none of that overshadows the fact that you broke the holiest of all military rules, so you failed.

I have a question for you, if the Navy is filled with so many dumbasses, and you can't even fit in and be an average sailor....what's that make you?

LDO

Oh by the way....

"Grammar is the logic of speech, even as logic is the grammar of reason." ~Richard C. Trench

>At what point did I say if you don't fit in you are a horrible person, there are varying degrees of sailors, some great, who strive to be advanced, and know that this is what they want to do for the rest of their lives, I count myself among those, then there are sailors who are average, who bitch somedays, and laugh others, no problem with them either.

have you ever imposed punitive action on anyone? let me guess. those people are children ;)

>Of course you also have the problem children, I spend 95% of each day dealing with these sailors, trying to make them buck up, instead of bucking the system. With some, I have been succesful, with some I have failed.

so if you do not like a person, or they do not fit in well with you or the navy, then they are a child.

what a paternal worldview, eh. thanks dad...

>Whether they re-enlist, or decide to move on to another job, if they are prepared at the end of their time, and get an HONORABLE discharge, I consider it a success.

and that is a fundamental flaw in your logic. I KNOW in my time I did far more work than most did in the same amount of time. Even though I did not like the system or my job I did the best I could until I felt broke.

At which point I asked for help. Got told to go fuck myself. And then I got in trouble for drugs.

I would like to mention a great quote from the last reply that was not made by you or I.

"military may protect and serve the country, but they leave their own out in the cold... and piss on them"

>If, like the young man I just sent to the brig, they get out with a OTH, I have failed.

so you are a failure then? I still think you can do good. at least you care enough to read feedback sailors leave. most people do not do that.

>With drugs, only one person has failed, the person who used. Your depression, your "destroyed" evals, your chain-of-command, none of that overshadows the fact that you broke the holiest of all military rules, so you failed.

and that is fine. within that system, sure "I failed". outside of that system "I succeeded".

>I have a question for you, if the Navy is filled with so many dumbasses, and you can't even fit in and be an average sailor....what's that make you?

smart.

look at my ASVAB and nuclear test scores. 99 & 76.

99 is the top score on the ASVAB test. 76 out of 80 was the highest score the people who gave me the nuclear test had ever seen at that point in time.

~ other than honorable sailor

On the contrary, none of the sailors I work with are children, which is why I hold each one of them accountable for their own actions, because they are adults, and deserve to be treated as such. If a sailor with a poor record is transferred to my division, he or she has a clean slate, until they start operating outside of the boundaries set up by our microcasmical society. Sleep during watch, get a DUI, beat up another sailor, and you force me to take action. On the other hand, do your job the best you can, get qualified senior watches, learn how your equipment works and you force me to take action also, to work to get you advanced, get you awards, get you the orders you want, or just get you more time off with your family.

You try to pigeon-hole anyone who opposes you on this site as "typical" or "childish" or "power-mongering." Well that's not how the military works, and I think it is important that the people who come to this site hear both sides of the coin. Most of them don't want your life, if they did you wouldn't have a feedback page full of people that had made a mistake, gotten a OTH, but still wanted to know how they could get back into the service.

Your scores are impressive, I also scored 99 on the ASVAB, it's not a difficult test, I never took the Nuke test, I knew it wasn't the field I wanted. Obviously you are very well-learned, but know that there is a difference between that, and intelligence.

Buck up, stop whining, and move on.

Active Duty Navy

"You try to pigeon-hole anyone who opposes you on this site as "typical" or "childish" or "power-mongering." Well that's not how the military works,"

i spit out my coffee laughing too hard at this

military is a well controlled organization. they can't afford anyone to fuck around, understandable. but it's obvious that blanket treatment or blanket control, in the military DOESNT WORK. the military is so focused on cleaning up and moving out, or even better, HIDING, anything that gives the slightest perception of being a bad blemish. they'd rather get rid of it than fix it
how long did it take for things like tailgate to come to light? abu grahib?
why is divorce rate so high in the military? what about post traumatic stress syndrome for marines who have just come back from seeing kids being blown up in iraq? what about all the alcoholics in the navy?
why won't the military take ANY PROACTIVE STEPS IN SAVING THEIR PEOPLE THAN SAVING THEIR OWN ASSES??

"Buck up, stop whining, and move on."
i'd like to hear you say that to a parent who's grieving because their child took their life because they couldn't "HACK" the military.
no doubt, people must be accountable for themselves, but the military must be accountable for THEIR PEOPLE.
the military is a machine, move out the old and expensive and bring in the 17/18 year old recruit. chew em up and spit em out.
i was with my husband since he was 16, the man that the military has turned him into, is not the same man i remember.
believe me, he can hack it, he's a great person, he works hard, never been in trouble, never even been counseled.
HE REENLISTED BECAUSE HE WAS SO GRATEFUL FOR THE TREATMENT THEY GAVE OUR SON. WHY DID THE NAVY DUMP HIM OUT???
we've sacrificed so much, and we appreciated what the navy provided to us regardless of the stresses that it created.
there certainly are some people who don't belong in the military. my husband was one of them, but he never fucked around or slacked off because of it. he didn't like it but he knew he was in it. and he knew he was in it for a good reason.

do you know what his co said to him about our son???
PITY IS A SIN

yet, my husband never asked for fucking PITY because of our son's cancer. all he asked was that SOMEONE LOOK AT THE SITUATION BEFORE THEY MADE A BRASH DECISION AND KICKED OUT SOMEONE WHO IS INNOCENT!!

they did no such thing

i'll invite his sep board to my son's funeral, god forbid that happens.
maybe then they might get it

>On the contrary, none of the sailors I work with are children, which is why I hold each one of them accountable for their own actions, because they are adults, and deserve to be treated as such.

This approach is contrary to most of the leadership my friends and I saw in the navy.

>If a sailor with a poor record is transferred to my division, he or she has a clean slate, until they start operating outside of the boundaries set up by our microcasmical society.

It really is a shitty deal to be black listed. People who I saw shipped off to our boat generally never had a clean slate.

>Sleep during watch, get a DUI, beat up another sailor, and you force me to take action.

Sleeping on watch is an art form. ;)

>On the other hand, do your job the best you can, get qualified senior watches, learn how your equipment works and you force me to take action also, to work to get you advanced, get you awards, get you the orders you want, or just get you more time off with your family.

Typically I worked more hours than the LPO of our division did. Additionally I ran the division sometimes when I was 21 years old. When September 11th happened I was the person running our division.

>You try to pigeon-hole anyone who opposes you on this site as "typical" or "childish" or "power-mongering." Well that's not how the military works, and I think it is important that the people who come to this site hear both sides of the coin.

And contrasting views are a good thing. So you should respect that I have one. No?

>Most of them don't want your life, if they did you wouldn't have a feedback page full of people that had made a mistake, gotten a OTH, but still wanted to know how they could get back into the service.

Some people love the military and make a mistake. Mistakes are not perminant. That is the point of this page. Remember that clean slate concept?

I am not saying other people want to be me or should be me...simply that I am more successful getting kicked out of the military than I would have been if I did not.

I wish it would have happened much sooner.

>Your scores are impressive, I also scored 99 on the ASVAB, it's not a difficult test, I never took the Nuke test, I knew it wasn't the field I wanted. Obviously you are very well-learned, but know that there is a difference between that, and intelligence.

Intelligence is making this page rank well in the most advanced information retrieval systems the world has to offer. You found my opinion. Odds are that unless you posted on MY SITE that I would have never found yours...or at least not from you.

Freedom of expression is a beautiful thing.

>Buck up, stop whining, and move on.

Isn't that the point of this thread? That there is lfe after the military. What they say about you really does not matter that much when you get into the real world.

And I think I can evaluate that statement better than most in the military since I have made the transition. And did it well.

I was discharged from the navy after two days of basic training. I understand, and see where they're coming from, but the tattoo I have is about 2inches wide and 2 inches in height, which is located on my left arm. The tattoo represents chaos and absence without government. Yes, I was a big dummy for saying that. It's an A with a circle in the background symbolize Anarchy. I got it when I was 18 or 19, which was 5yrs ago. I want to change my discharge status from a RE4 to RE3.

i was in teh marines and got an oth for popping on a piss test for coke, i was 7 nanograms over the detected level, i was pissed but whatever. people i spoke to who were in teh brig had failed for 900 nanograms and 2000 naograms over, and that was their 2nd or third offense, and here i am with 107 nanograms over and they booted me out.
well, i was sent home in april 04, and got a job within a week. they asked about military and said i got a medical discharge. i have 2 different dd14's. one states a discharge type and one dosent, the otehr 2 marines who got booted with me also had that same dd214, hopefulyl everyone will get one, so jsut incase a job does do a backround check, nobody will knw why, and you can tell them it was a medical discharge or something like that.. either way this job never even asked about seeing a form or anything and i got the job within a few days and im still working there today . the marine corps was great, but the people in it suck.

Hey. I went UA while in ITB'SOI in order to be discharged. It has been around 3 month already and I heard something about 180days automatic discharge. And if I go back now would they still consider to keep in for the contract? Can some one give more details on it?

Ace,
From all I've read about the military, after 30 days you are considered a deserter and are removed from their rolls. They basically consider you discharged except when you do finally go back then they officially discharge you. Of course, the punishment you get could be a joke or could be bad. Hard to say. Everybody gets a different outcome. Part of the reason the military sucks. There's no consistency in the discharges and punishments. My suggestion, turn yourself in now. I can't imagine they'd even try to keep you in after 3 months of UA. They'll probably consider you what they considered me, "demonstrated unrealibility", and send you packing. Good luck.

Wanting to get out!!! If I just tell them I'm gay will they let me go with an honorable discharge??

i am a nuke in the navy and have just recently popped positive with 26 nanograms of thc in my system. i thought that the limit was 50? is there anything else that can cause a positive thc result (i.e. aspirin, tylenol, etc.)?
i was told today that i will be going to mast in a week or so. do you have any advice? will they pay me to move my family back to maryland from california? will they make me pay back my re-enlistment bonus? i am also currently on limdu because i tore my acl and meniscus. will this affect the V.A.'s decision on giving me disability when i do get out? can i get a job at a nuclear power plant with a drug discharge? do you know anyone that i can conatact to get additional information.

I was discharged for unathorized BAH. I told the core i was taking part custody of my girlfriends child in order to get partial BAH. Later she got pissed and reported me to my pussy ass SSGT. Of course he pursude it. Later I was court martialed and givin a BCD. I admit I was wrong but I felt the Corps could have handled things a better way than they did. I was on my second enlistment first time offender. Since then I've had a few jobs but I'm still striving to get a Law Enforcement job. Thats what I always wanted to do. Just made a bad freakin decesion. Can anyone shed any light on this? I've tried being honest on the application but that shit has been against me rather than for me. Can anyone shed any light on this situation? What the hell should I do?

I was discharged for unathorized BAH. I told the core i was taking part custody of my girlfriends child in order to get partial BAH. Later she got pissed and reported me to my pussy ass SSGT. Of course he pursude it. Later I was court martialed and givin a BCD. I admit I was wrong but I felt the Corps could have handled things a better way than they did. I was on my second enlistment first time offender. Since then I've had a few jobs but I'm still striving to get a Law Enforcement job. Thats what I always wanted to do. Just made a bad freakin decesion. Can anyone shed any light on this? I've tried being honest on the application but that shit has been against me rather than for me. Can anyone shed any light on this situation? What the hell should I do?

as far as being ua, when I was in MCAS beaufort working at the checking, one day this guy came in and he had been UA for 2 years, and decided that he wanted to close that chapter in his life, turned himself in.. they did nothing to him but give him an other than honorable discharge, I am not say that will be the same outcome for you, but chances of them throwing you in the brig really belongs to the CO of the unit that you are in.. if he is a hard ass, then he will through the book at you, if not just count the loses and let you go.. and as far as the one who was asking if he would say he is gay if they would let you out.. the best thing to do, is just like any jail sentence ride it out.. otherwise you will be in here posting "what can I do" know what I mean?

I've been out of the NAV for 22 years. I actually enjoyed the Navy and had good evals and got along well with everyone on board ship. I received an OTH discharge for smoking dope. I violated the rules and they kicked me out. I'm still the same person no matter what discharge I received. Getting an honorable doesn't change your personality for the better. War experience changes a persons personality. I've had the same job for 22 years, got a college degree and raised a family during that time. Aaron's right-the secret is don't let anyone know what type of discharge you have. It isn't none of their business anyway. So you can't work for the federal, state or local governments. Most of us don't. The navy doesn't seem to know what type of discharge it is anyway. Ask anyone in military admin. and they will tell you it is not a DISHONORABLE discharge. An OTH does not bar you from most private sector jobs, unless you want to be in a high profile occupation like a CEO or politician or something of that nature, and background checks normally are limited to civilian misconduct. Either fight it or forget it, so I decided to forget it and that has worked out well for me.

My daughter was just recently discharged from the Navy Seabees for UCMJ violations as a RE4 Entry level seperation. How will this effect her as far as rejoining another branch if she chose's to?

Well I've found out that she wont be eligible for any other branch of services. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can help her thru this?

>Anyone have any suggestions on how I can help her thru this?

the military is an exceptionally small portion of the workforce. other jobs do exist.

i recieved an OTH from the Corps in 1999 after i CONFESSED to smoking weed.....its the worst mistake i've ever made. I tried to get back in but the recruiter said no dice. i'm in a different situation than most of you becasue i want back in. does anyone know what i can do to acomplish this?
thanks, nick

My C-O has recently reccommended me for and other than honorable under chapter 13. I was sent the paperwork in the mail about two months ago. I have been talking with this appointed lawyer, he's telling me that i can get a conitional transfer to another unit, so i can finish my time and get an honorable?:@ I'm not sure if he blowing smoke up my ass telling me what i want to hear or if he's really trying to help me out. I still have time to waive my right to be seen by a seperation board and request a general. If anyone has advise please e-mail me. sboffoli@verizon.net.

As for me, i was discharged in 1992 for popping positve on a command sweep piss test, bad thing was they didnt catch me they caught two other guys i had smoked with so they narced on me and 8 other guys to get there self out of trouble, this was right after desert storm and right after i came back from jeddah, i received none of my medals, no va loan or bennies, did not get my g.i bill which i already paid for, and was resricted 45 days, half months pay times two, and extra duty, then was transfered to tpu and was told id never work for the military or a military contractor again,now keep this in mind when u get a oth, you get a re-4, when u get an re-4 u are not available to enlist in any branch of the service at all. the only way as far as i know to get back in is to upgrade your discharge, and to do that you have to get the forms, and its a long drawn out process, u dont need a lawyer, stay out of trouble do community service get letters from people who know your character (priest, boss, so on...)and go thourgh the process, va reps will sometimes either help u or guide u thourgh those steps, as for me i was welding u.s. navy ships together about 1 year after i was discharged i did not lie at my interview i came straight out with the six people i was sitting before and they hired me, looked i already screwed up, but i dont want the feeling of being a liar to make it any worse....as for getting it upgraded at this point maybe maybe not..

p.s if u made it thourgh at least one year in any branch be proud of that, u did your duty and thats more then alot of people can say, take it eazy...

Fellow OTH'ers---
Take charge of your life and follow your dreams. The military is not fit for everyone. You can get all the money you need for college w/out the GI bill. Just fill aout the FASFA form at your local college. I get grants and stafford loans. Actually I'm not even working at the moment. I have one year left until I have a Bachelors in Business with a concentration in Accounting. Yes, thats right! I have an OTH, but I will still make a great living as a CPA (certified public accountant). Don't let anyone tell you that you are not good enough to go out and get what you want. I had problems in the Marines, and after a few years of reflecting on the experience I feel the problem was me not them. I am just to damn ambitious. I cannot handle being under such strict control. Now I control my own destiny and every aspect of my life. I've never been happier.
I refuse to believe I am a bad person because of an OTH. I have a 3.5 GPA, what does that say? I will not let a piece of paper from an organiazation that wasn't right for me in the first place huant me for life. Take charge of your life people, you are the CO now!!!!

I could answer alot of q's for you folks here as I am actice duty awaiting seperation. Doing alot of research on this because I have over 19 years in and there want to send me home.....now.
My Q to aaron is how did you get set up working for yourself? Very interested in being my own boss!
D

>My Q to aaron is how did you get set up working for yourself?

became an internet marketer. learned to manipulate search relevancy algorithms. it is how you found this page.

I got an RE4 from Bootcamp because I told them I took Zoloft and I thought people were poising my food. I never took Zoloft and never had any of those thoughts. I just didn't like what I was going through. Is there any way to change my discharge, could I tell them how I lied about everything? I want to re-enlist. Let me know. ladaca2003@aol.com

anyone intersted in going back into the military, listen to what I am about to tell you, for I am living proof, I got out with a re3p, "medical" I have been trying to get back in the Marines, but noooo.. its like I am no longer good enough, but I recently went to an army recruiter and Now I am currently going back in, WITH a reenlistment bonus, I will lose 1 rank, but hey with enough time in service its a matter of time before I become a sgt once again.. so for anyone trying to get back in... give the army a chance.. besides you still get bragging rights for being a bad ass former Marine.. uuuhh raaah.

I'M GOING TO MEET WITH A LAWYER TO SEE WHAT I CAN DO TO GET BACK IN THE CORPS...WISH ME LUCK. I REALIZE THIS MIGHT BE A LOSING BATTLE BUT I HAVE TO TRY.

Well damn......Here I sit 3 years after i got my OTH for drugs and I find this web sit one night while Im freakin borred. Wow you guys make me feel good Im not the only freakin idiot who made a mistake and misses the service and wants back in.......But lets be carefull to we miss the good times and the friends we had? Becase remember if you do find a way back in it will be new people a new command and a dirty ass war! Keep your chins up you live you die you move on.....There are alot of posers still in the marines that got to be called " war heros" because they were missing the day of the piss test yet they were hitting bong loads with me every other weekend. I was a good marine i loved my job just partied too hard on weekends......Any ways if any of you people find a way to get back in with a RE4 hit me up at nick_h1999@hotmail.com. And dont let people like this active navy dude bring you down he was prolly just one of the officers who sat behind the desk while the grunts went humping giving orders through his chain of command you remember that guy old capt. whathisface.....take it easy gents untill next time

Unlike all of you I hadn't had much of a military experiance. I enlisted in the Marine Corps when I was 18. Everything was going fine and I was just a normal recruit until I started writing back and forth to my exgirlfriend of three years at the time. In those letters we went back and forth about wanting to get back together and getting married and starting a family. I don't know what the fuck happened and I freaked. She was still in High School so I decided (very stupidly) to quit. I told them i was depressed and suicidal, then when that got me in trouble I said I was gay. They must of known I was full of shit but they let me go and gave me an Entry Level Discharge. I have regreted that deciscion for four years. I want nothing more to get back in. This sense of failure is unbearable. Do they allow second chances of have I fucked myself for good?

Hey out there i have been in the USN for about 1 year 3 months im looking to try and get out legally i found a web page made by a 12 year veteran and he put in there that there are legal ways of getting out EX.
Heartship
COllage(this is the one im looking into)

things like that i want to know if anyone can give me any information on how to get out. i want to go to collage and get my criminal justace degree or something in the feild of this? but please tell me how true this is. i was told they will work with you and will let you go plus i dont feel that i can do work for the navy anymore i dont have the ability to do what i came in for my mind stuck on school and not getting along with any of my shipmates in my division isnts working i have a feeling that i might cause problems if something isnt taken care of. THANKS FOR YOUR HEL GUYS I AM VERY APPRICIATIVE OF THIS. SIGN HT3 USN

this comment is for plusto, listen once the Marine discharge you its hard to get back in.. not impossible.. its just that you have to do all the calling, all the paper work, and all the walking.. recruiters dont like to spend time with you, only because they have to do alot of paperwork for wavers. Now like I have said before, you can always join the army, trust me on this they are in desperate need for people, that could be one of your choices.. That is what I am doing. dont know if that helps, but where theres a will theres a way.

Thanks Dan, I will keep that in mind. I am going to try to make things happen. I am hoping to be getting "ITed" very soon.

I was UA for 32 day i got cought inbetewwen the crack during this thing called "school of ship" i was given a lofal order by a second class petty officer to go around picking up trash. As unbelivable as it sound it happened for 32 days well the weekends i had off or at least i thought i did. any way instead of my CO giving me an OTH like he wanted he gave me 45/45 reduction in rate 2months half pay. But the funny thing is it did sound kinda fishy that we were cleaning for 32 days (by the way in the time of war thats concidered desertion right?) well what he did was then suspend my reduction in rate which im still an FN and i was supposed to be FA he suspended 400 dollars of my pay (instead of me paying 800 every half of a month it would now be 400) he suspended 10 days of my 45/45 ... but only on my restiction time and left me with 45 extra duty. i kinjda think if anything it should of been court marshial but it wasnt. Well now that i think of it all this was so fucked up adn i should of took him up on his oth offer and now i feel like shit for not doing it. Ever since bootcamp i have cried my self to sleep not knowing abouit that 180 day seperation crap. i feel like im going to hurt my self or someone eles around my shop i just feel like my life is going down the drain and i should of never signed up i thought of taking my new dodge truck and just rammin into a pole and ending my finacial problems along with other things.
Im fighting to keep my head above water finacially and had a second job to keep me above my payments (by the way im in dry dock) i was put on restiction and kinda lost the job oppertunity for now (i was told after restriction to come back hell hold my position) and i feel that i can do better finacially on the real world and i wont feel like beating someones head in and wont feel like just ending all this shit the navy has put me through. I think about this everynight i have people behind me saying find a way out bring your self back to life get a job on the outside world if ya have to get to to pay off your bill then go to school you have time. someone help me befor i make a decision that im going to regret for the rest of my life and make a lot of people upset if i do go through with my thought. THANK YOU GUYS

chase,
think about it real hard before you do something crazy. think about how its going to affect your life after the fact, think about how you're going to feel about your self, think about how its going to affect your family and friends. believe me man its never as bad as it seems, just keep pushing through and everything will work itself out. go talk to a base(or ship?) counselor they can give you tools to work through your problems. i've been through similar situations and it always works itself out with a little discipline and intestinal fortitude(guts). nothing is worth sacrificing your honor and self respect.......i know, i'm fighting with it now. keep your head up, walk tall and remember FIDO (Fuck It, Drive On)

My husband was arrested and is now in jail for 3 yr.He has been in for over a year and still no word from the military in what they are going to do with him?He is not in a military jail.Are they going to wait till he gets back to kick him out or will they make him serve the rest of his time that he has left for the army when he gets out of jail?

I have been fighting the navy for a wrongfull discharge for over 21 yrs...i am and was not guilty,that OTHD has caused me to loose everything...but as a 3.9 sailor.was in my second term,GOOD CONDUCT AWARD along with many qual,s that i did....i am not about to give up...next step is federal court,if i can find a attorney.so i feel for all you men...don,t give up..keep fighting my brothers

To me each of us is just a number to the government. It is pointless to fight them directly.

As you make money they get your taxes. As you waste effort fighting directly you make less money. Without money there is no democracy in this country. Sad but true.

If you want to have an effect dont go to improve your record (wasted time and effort). Make a page like this or a web site or somehow market what you think of them.

They attack your credibility? Give them a bit of their own medicine.

If enough people see how shitty and hypocritical the systems are they need to spend more to try to promote them and then eventually they have to make the systems less fucked up (reform).

In general, do not carry your discharge with you other than expressing your discontent on a web page or the like. And then move on. As you do well you can pour resources into reformatting that system instead of just trying to worry about your own discharge status.

Its a matter of self respect really. Hence why this page exists. And why most my effort is elsewhere.

Consider the military what it is: A toy. A joke.
And move on.

Consider the military what it is: A toy. A joke.
And move on......are you crazy!..i can,t believe you wrote this....it may be a JOKE TO YOU..but i loved the NAVY and the military way of life...its people like you that make this world like it is...i would,nt waste the 45cents it would take to put a bullet in your head.there are still some of us out there that really would give our life,s for the protection of our brothers and their family,s....and i am one of them.

Steven slatton
"A VETERAN"

Hey guys i have been diagnosied with depression and im in the military i dont know if its going to go away anytime soon to much on my mind *you know* but will they kick me out if i dont get any better. If i cant keep my attenchion to long and start to daze back off to my problems> I think pretty soon its going to get worst and im just going to end up not caring. Should i continue with counseling or just i dont know what to do what if counseling dont help me and after like 2 months im still down in the dumps are they going to get thrown out. I was told they do , do that and give you a general (medical discharge) how true is this. I havent even got the sleep that one persons supposed to get b/c of this like last night i only got 2 hrs i went to bed at 4 and got up at 6 for the new day i cant keep doing this. :*(
Thankl you who ever answers my post
Very Tired

>its people like you that make this world like it is...

what, occasionally honest?

>i would,nt waste the 45cents it would take to put a bullet in your head.

wow. that is a real act of generosity. if you did kill me the government would lose out on lots of tax dollars. it would be a rather selfish move for you to shoot somebody.

>there are still some of us out there that really would give our life,s for the protection of our brothers and their family,s....and i am one of them.

the real question is "Does bombing little children in Iraq make our country any safer?"

I am living with an OTH discharge that I recieved in February 2004 from the US Navy. I found a good job right when I returned home and I have never really thought about my discharge since then. But just recently I was laid off from work and now I am seeing the effects of my discharge in my search for a good job. Does anyone know the best way to go about an appeal?

Erik has an awesome point. Everyone should read his story. His article is 18 up from the bottom. Every person can take cahrge of their own lives. I have many friends that we're marines and have OTH's but still are managing high end jobs. (I) also got and OTH and am getting out soon. Just awaiting separation from reserve status. But thats not gonna be the end of my career because i still have school to look forward to and a job that i will never tell about my OTH..Not many jobs find out about your OTH, but just that you were once a marine..

Well shit, talked to the Marine recruiter today. He told me that it looks like I am going to be disqualified from joining Marine Corps, and ANY military for that matter! I mean what the fuck! I am kind of thinking they haven't really looked into it that far. My girlfriend just got out of the Navy and said there is no way that they could have my service record yet. I am thinking they just don't want to have to deal with me. Anybody have any input?

Come on guys, the military is just using us. As many say: "the friends and the good times" that's not going to be there when/if you get back in. Just move on and start over. They still have me on limbo about my discharge. What am I going to do...? Keep saving some money for the future and get my stuff ready for discharge when that day comes.
Don't be thinking that if you go back in, that it will be the same. Things change.

Great site Aaron.

Life After OTH? Yes!

Popped on Meth 1995. OTH'd from Navy. I got a job offer while at TPU as a Telecom Engineer. Woot! Pay raise. Started at new job one week after Sep from Navy.

Engineered and designed a large segment of the fiber optic network this country uses for telephony/internet traffic from 1995-2001.

Engineered, designed and managed the construction of the communication system for one of the largest mass transit systems in the country. Still working at this position on the next expansion.

Note: No one has ever asked about my discharge or asked to see my DD-214. Only problem ever encountered has been trying to get a VA Loan for a new house. Will probably end up going conventional anyways. No problem there.

Info for people currently in the Navy: Watch out who you hang out with. NCIS put a guy in our division long term. He ended up setting up 6 people from our division. Like Aaron, this all turned out good for me (didn't think so at the time though).

Just found out through the thread and additional reading that according to the Nav Per Manual 1910 that I should have been seperated no later than 15 days after Mast. Wow! They kept me in lingo for 5 months. Had to get family involved to get me released from TPU to get to new job in time.

Keep it real Aaron. You are providing a good service! :)

looks like I stumbled into a big ole pile of shit. How can you guys even think you were wronged by on OTHD when you were doing dope.
If it were to me, 1st time offenders get the boot with a BCD.
Only reason why im here is because ive been offered 120k job, looking to see to get out of contract. I have no pity for you.

>120K
>If it were to me, 1st time offenders get the boot with a BCD.

greedy, selfish, and judgemental. bet your parents are proud.

Hey i was in the marine corp. and my mother passed away shit kinda messed me up i smoked popped pos on piss test and was discharged with an OTH for misconduct on my dd-214 and a re-entry code of re-4b seperation code hkk1...i was seperated march 8th 2004 but under remarks on my dd-214 it states good conduct medal period commences 01 13 2004 and i'm curious as to the meaning of the remark...i am looking for an upgrade on discharge and possible re-entry in the marine corp...i was an e-3 and was demoted to e-1 upon separation....if anyone could give me any information about how i would go about applying for an upgrade and the best ways to do it i would appreciate it....could i possibly have that upgraded do to hardship or anything of that nature.....any information would be helpful...thanks

FTN!!!!! Dumb idiot officers who never did anything in their life wrong or drank and rive or smoke some shit!! Yeah right!! It's the Officers who make all the major choices to kick you out with whatever!! Find one in your neighborhood and fuck'em up!! I did! and will again!!

Questions: How difficult (or easy) has it been for you (and by this I mean the entire thread community) to find a job? Did you have to lie in order to get it? Have you had trouble getting any sort of loans (car, house, consumer)? Have you had any luck in finding government employment (local, state, federal)? Has anyone been accepted to a police force with an OTH? WHat are some of the horror stories? What are some of the success stories?

I would have to say that Aaron wall is one of the most unique people that i have ever met, and i stand by my claim about the box of jello.

The summer of 2004 I received an OTH discharge for the U.S. Army. I know that the Army is not for everyone. I was stupid and I chose to be an Airborne Infantry Paratrooper. Talk about a hard Army experience. From the first day that I arrived at my unit I had problems with E-4’s telling me an E-3 what to do. In addition, I could not stand the fact that I had to stand a Parade Rest for E-4’s (Specialists). I can’t even remember how many times the E-4’s preformed corrective training on me. Sometimes the E-4’s would make me do exercises till I would pass out. They always made sure to hydrate me with an I.V., and once the needle came out, it was back to more exercises. Life was hell for me. So our Unit gets the call to become part of Operation Freedom IV. My unit and I deploy. Now why they allowed me to deploy after all the issues I had, I will never know. Wile I was deployed I got to do some really cool things, and the E-4’s were being a lot nicer to me; probably because I now had a loaded M4. Then one night I was pulling PUC (Person Under States Control) guard. By the way a PUC has no rights under Geneva Convention. The PUC is the military’s dark little secret, but back to what happened. I was guarding this PUC. He was in very sad shape, he had been all shot up. The E-4 that was guarding the PUC with me gave the PUC a cigarette. I kind of felt bad for the PUC, knowing that he was going to be excited. So several hours later the PUC signals to me that he would like a cigarette. Please note that I had been smoking in front of him all night. I gave the PUC a lit cigarette. Well anyway I got caught. I do not know how, but my team leader knew. I kept my mouth shut. I did not tell that the E-4 on the guard shift with me gave him one first.

Now this is when my life becomes a real hell. Things start flying down hill for me. I was put in a different Platoon within my same company. I continue to conduct missions with my new platoon between smoke sessions. Several nights later I was call into my Platoon sergeant SFC Adams’s tent. Prior to entering the tent my M4 was taken from me by my squad leader SSG Elridge. Now I am inside of the tent and SSG Elridge is guarding the only entrance/exit to the tent. It’s just SFC Adams and me in the tent. SFC Adams starts pushing me around. All I can do is try my best to stand a Parade Rest. That evening my platoon sergeant, SFC Adams makes it clear to me, if I go on another mission with his platoon he will see to it that I will not return. Without any question in my mind I knew if I went out on another mission with him I was going to die. The following day our platoon was called up for a mission that would be conducted that evening. Please note I am not a bitch, but I was scared for the first time since I entered Afghanistan. I was called into my commander’s tent. My commander CPT Condrey was holding a piece of paper in his hand. Then CPT Condrey asks me if I would be joining my platoon on the mission that was to be conducted this evening. I didn’t know what to say. By the way SFC Adams is also in the tent. I look around the room and SFC Adams is staring at me almost like he is looking through me. Finally after several minutes I caved, and told CPT Condrey that I would not join my platoon on the mission this evening. Then CPT Condrey looks at the piece paper in his hand and starts reading it to me. What do you know it’s my rights. The son of a bitch had a piece of paper in his hand the whole time with my rights on it.

About a month later I got Court Marshaled inside of the dining facility tent without a lawyer. Please note it was only a Summary Court Marshal, so the Army is not required to provide me with a lawyer. I don’t know but any Court Marshal in a tent on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan seems a little bit shady to me. Anyway they hit me with about 12 charges. I beat about half of them. In the end I got the maximum sentence of a Summary Court Marshal. Lose of all rank wow I went from private (PFC/E-3), to private (PV1/E-1), I lost 2/3 of one month’s pay, and I got 30 days confinement. For me it was a real treat to leave Afganiagistan and go to Manheim Military Prison in Germany. I remember one of the questions they ask me on the evaluation when I got to the Prison was how do you feel about being confined here. I looked up at the Sergeant and told him I was happy to be here. No more bullets firing at me, no more nightly rocket attacks, and best of all I get three hot meals a day. I did my time, and I was sent back to my stationed base. Several months later I was chaptered out of the Army with an OTH discharge. Thankfully I was discharged prior to my unit’s return. I really would like to get my discharge upgraded. I think maybe if I write a book in vivid detail maybe I can get some political support. I think a good name for the book will be Inside Conclusions Lead to Political Resolutions. I wrote this because knowledge is the key and the more people know the better.

All of you out there; please tell me what you think about the 2 and ½ years I had to endure in the Army.

>please tell me what you think about the 2 and ½ years I had to endure in the Army.

well it sounds shitty. you could let that hold you back or use that as motivation to do whatever you like.

I think that the people who are in the military that post some of these things telling people they need to know how to spell are the dumb asses. Because most people in the military can't make it in the civilian world because they're just too dumb to go to college or get a real job out in the civilian world.

Well I was wondering if an Other than Honorable discharge from the Navy is such a bad thing. I'm in the Navy right now and am an Undesignated Airman who hates V-3 and the Navy for that matter. Well first of all I have 2 dependent's and another child on the way. And it is hard on me too stay in because, I don't want to go out to sea and leave my wife and kids behind because, I am a family man and I just can't leave my wife to take care of our kids by herself. It just ain't right. And also the navy is paying me as an E-3 and that don't support someone who will be having 3 dependent's and also the way our economy is doing right now I don't think I can afford to stay in. I heard something about a Hardship Discharge but I don't know much about that. Also I heard if I have 3 Dependents in the Navy as an E-3 I have to have a waiver in order to stay in the Navy is that true. And does anyone know if I have to sign that waiver because if I do I'm not going to because I want out of the Navy to help my family in Need. If anyone can give me any advice please email me at: justin22andjulie20@gmail.com

Thanks

To everyone out there their is definitely life after the military just have to apply yourself and be determined. Nothing can stop a determined individual you can bank on that. For me being kicked out the Marines was a stepping stone. Don't let them see you sweat thats what they want. "If u get kicked out your screwed for life" is what they say. They're screwed because they don't know nothing else in life. Live is what I'm saying its a once in a life time offer?

Hey everyone out there. Im just writing on here to get some info I'm currently in the marine corps working on my three year mark right now as a pfc because I was recently NJP'd. For a security violation in the armory where I was trying to do the right thing and help the unit out. It is true that I shouldnt have done what i did but i also did not recieve any on the job training i should of. Well here i am a pfc again with a wife and 16 month old daughter making shit money. I am trying to be positive on this whole situation but enough is enough I want out. I already have a school lined up I want to attend and have been accepted to. Its UTI one of the best auto technician schools in the country. Now I had Asthma before I joined the Marine Corps but they know nothing of that and as far as i know its not documented in my civilian medical records. Im think about going in there and telling them i think i have asthma and get a medical discharge. Well i still keep my GI benefits or no. I have been to iraq and all already and all i want is a medical discharge and my college money. Let me know how this all works asap i want to get this on the ball. Thank you so much everyone for all of those posts above I really know now that I am not the only one that thinks the Corps is filled with lies. They say they take care of family all they do is fuck you and your family over. Semper Fidelis is the biggest lie of all. Help me be a civilian again!!!!

So here I am on the verge of a chapter under 14-12 (misconduct) and I can only hope that the conditional waiver is approved. All I want is a General Discharge and to be out of the service as quickly as possible. My segue into the civilian sector is the only thing that keeps me sane at this point. I am a special forces soldier and am facing administrative discharge at a time when the Army is missing its recruiting goal by more than 35%. I hardly think it is cost effective for the military to expunge highly trained individuals at a point when forces are, at best, spread thin across the world fighting a truly multi-front war. I currently possess four Military Occupational Specialties and have been to countless service schools but zero tolerance is the order of the day so out I go! WISH ME LUCK !!! Later, "Civilian Soon"

Civilian Soon and Nick good luck and God bless.

Peace be with you

An OTH discharge will only effect you if you want some kind of benefit from the government or military, or if you are trying to use that fact that you were in the military as proof of experience for a particular job. Other than that An OTH means nothing when it comes to getting a job or having a career. I got an OTH in 1991 when my stupid first wife took off with my kids and I took off to find them, I had just gotten off of leave and had no more accrued leave to take. I told My commanding officer of my situation and he treated me like a number so I left on my own to do what I had to do. I got charged with AWOL and got an OTH. Under the same circumstances I would do it all again, because of course there is more to the story. Anyway I have worked every since at different places in different states and it has never mattered most of them don't ask about military experience and if they do ask, saying that you have an OTH is saying that its not Dishonorable. It fits under the catagory of other. They never check and if they did they cant get details with out going through the proper channels and an employer is not going to go through all of that just to hire you or not. They're just happy that it doesn't say dishonorable. IF they ever ask you why, just say "hardship" regardless of what the military says why--"hardship" is your opinion.

Hey I got kicked out and want back in please help send all info to mreese04@msn.com and I got kicked out for popping on marijuana, I was also meritoriously promoted out of bootcamp and honor grad out of school, with a merit. promo there too. USMC pretty much did this black girl without any vaseline, Semper Fi thats a lie

im in the army enlisted may 2003, since ive been in ive always hated it, i got in trouble in my last unit for going A.W.O.L. in sept 2004, when i got caught i spent 5 days in county jail till the m.p.'s gave them the word to release me...(fell on a donsa so i got fucked) i really hate the army and i have been messing up and not listening to them so i have counselings on disobeying a direct order and failure to report on a couple, also a gave a knife to another soldier so i have a counseling for that also which says they are recommending ucmj, ill do anything to get out of the army- i cant deal with it anymore, they kicked 3 soldiers out not 2 long ago for coccaine use (gen. under honorable conditions) i would love to get out on that, i went to a rave and missed 2 days of p.t. after that i got drug tested under suspicion and did do exstacy 2 days prior to that, i dont really know how them results are going to turn out- for my misconduct im suppose to sign in every hour from 6-11 for 2 weeks - i really cant deal with this b/s im almost willing to accept whatever they throw at me and just give up (going to jail for a few days, whatever..) im just trying to calculate my steps, im getting pissed because they all know i want out of the army so there making it very hard now.. its rediculous there was another guy in my unit that told everyone to fuck off and stopped listining and just got out on a general in like 2 weeks he was gone!! i am so upset i never disrespect anyone and somehow the army refuses to let me go, i hate it so much - but i am a good person so of coarse i get screwed, i have a good job lined up for if i get out soon, i just want out, and i dont want to go to jail, it would only be right,.... any advice? questions on my experiences? my unit wont even give me an article 15. -- i hate my life in the army, i just want to be free again... im going to come up with something, gay, drugs, misconduct, just want out@!

oh and also for the awol charge i told them i wanted out so i went awol, but they gave me 14/14/ loss of pay, plus they got there money back from when i was in jail, 5 days in jail, and i was only awol for 5 days, i only did it because my girlfriend left me and i was extremely depressed during which time they tried to send me to a hardcore infantry unit, wouldnt reccomend going awol to anyone, however my friend went awol for over 30 days and got out on gen. discharge, fucked up isnt it? curious wut would happen if i tell them im going to kill myself cuz i cant stand the army life? i dont know.... (((confused)))

> curious wut would happen if i tell them im going to kill myself cuz i cant stand the army life?

if they think you just want out they will try to make your life harder.

there have been instances where commanding officers got fired because they literally drove people to killing themselves.

a perfect example... a kid got in trouble but would not rat out the others. nobody would say who the others were. so they locked the boat down and made that one kid stand watch with a gun topside. he killed himself. the commanding officer looked like a real fucking genius with that scumbag call.

I like how former warfighters like to blame the system for their fuck ups. You are told the day you come in to the military that you cannot do drugs. I am not some innocent cheesedick that thinks reefer is evil, or that party drugs make people criminal. I do know that it does destroy good order and discipline, because if you are not disciplined enough to not do drugs during liberty or leave you are not disciplined enough to be counted on to defend your country. Man-up to you responsibilities. I hope all of you that popped positive on drugs can be upgraded to a General Discharge, because it seems that most of you were young first-termers that were still immature. If you learned anything from the military, it should be to accept resonsibility for your actions. Instead, most of you act like frivilous lawsuit candidates looking for a loophole in the system to get you out of a mess you got yourself in to.

Semper Fi!

>I like how former warfighters like to blame the system for their fuck ups.

I like how former warfighters get fucked with post tramautic stress disorder and then get told that it is their fault.

>You are told the day you come in to the military that you cannot do drugs.

And yet the scumbags in the military drug you. Low oxygen levels, no sunlight, make you huff paint that causes lung and brain damage. Really a bunch of horse crap.

>I am not some innocent cheesedick that thinks reefer is evil, or that party drugs make people criminal.

In the navy I saw alchohol screw over far more people than drugs did.

>I do know that it does destroy good order and discipline, because if you are not disciplined enough to not do drugs during liberty or leave you are not disciplined enough to be counted on to defend your country.

I don't buy that for a minute. What makes the chiefs and officers that were too fucked up DRINKING more discipline than I? The port before I got in trouble, in spite of me being blacked out most of the day, I helped over a half dozen crew members get back to the boat. To me, being able to get back to work and help a half dozen people get back to work in spite of being screwed up shows greater discipline than most.

>most of you act like frivilous lawsuit candidates looking for a loophole in the system to get you out of a mess you got yourself in to.

To me joining the military was a mess. Getting out any way possible was a good deal in the long run for me.

yeah! great site!!.. some questions I have seen repeated.. over and over again with no answers:

1)If I get an OTH will it effect my VA bennies?

It may, but if you received an honorable discharge in a prior enlistment you are entitled to your GI bill.

2)I saw someone that said that they weren't given a VA loan because of an OTH discharge indication on their DD-214..

Even if you receive an OTH discharge you may still be eligible for this loan status. This condition is reviewed on a case by case basis. (remember folks the VA is not the MIlitary)

Now I get to call bullshit on some posts I saw.

I saw a guy that said he was reduced from E3-E1 by his CO...

CO NJP (mast or OH) can only bust you down one paygrade

Some guy got a BCD for fraudulently claiming BHA for someone else...

That sounds like too stiff a punishment for the crime and I question its validity.

I saw some great questions and love the cat fight between Aaron and LDO clown guy

My opinion:

As the forces fail to meet their recruiting goals, look for reentry rules to become more lax.

So a little about myself:

I was an E-5 engineman in the Navy for 6 years. I was a top notch sailor with high evals. I had no prior problems, and by all means was respected by most in my command. I popped for cocaine right after I reenlisted, and was OTH'd by a drb 3-0 vote.

I have had no problem finding work at all, although I was barred from collecting unemployment insurance because of my discharge.

Plenty of people get their discharge upgraded so stay vigilant people. The key is to talk to people that have been successful. There have been plenty of people whose requests have been denied, but then again there have been people who did some horrible shit and got the upgrade. It is all how you represent yourself.

For you people such as "active duty military", you do make clear points that should be recognized, but the way you carry yourself you really give a bad name to those serving our country. Get with the times you clown. The last two presidents admitted to using controlled substances. Bad choices don't make you a dummy, ignorance does.

For those of you that got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, I am one of you, but I admit that I made a bad choice by puting myself in a situation that would produce a positive UA. Don't live in denial, accept the wrong, and do something about it. All the tools are availible.

All in all I felt that the character of my service could hardly be described as "Other than Honorable", but the people making the choices here will ask if a sailor or soldier with no infractions at all deserves the same discharge characterization as a known drug user. That answer is always going to be no.

To all the poeple that never got caught (and my "regular guy" estimate is that over half are doin' bad shit)... if you keep on going it will catch you.

Good luck everyone! This has been a great read.. Shit! gotta go update my spellcheck!

This is for Frank. If you say you are going to kill yourself they are going to make you see shrinks and counsolers. Unless you are actually suicidal you are going to have to put on a very good show, or it will get you into some real shit. Most likley you will be seperated and discharged, but I don't know what kind of discharge that would fall under

>lifesux Please tell me what you thought about my events that took place in the Middle East.

Frank I am Anti-political Agenda. Look at what my brothers in arms did to me. I wrote it on the web site not too long ago. Be very careful what you wish for. I learned that if you wish for it you might just get it. I do wish the best luck to you. I remember when I would do just about anything to get out of the Army ALIVE. If life and limb are not at stake, please reconsider. All you have to do is play their game. I would have played their game but for me it was play their game and endure friendly fire, or do what I had to do to get out. Please note I really do know how you feel. You currently feel hopeless. As soon as your Company regains you trust it will be back to business as usual. If you really want out with a better discharge, bite the bullet and tell you Commander that you find him attractive, and you would like to go out on a date with him. This should work, but be ready for some serious ridicule and possibly some death threats. Good luck Frank.

I was informed that I'm being separated the day of my graduation from tech school for air traffic control. The separation is for a "negative pattern of behavior," basically too many times late to formation and failed room inspections. I'm assuming it will be a General discharge. The Air Force refuses to give me my FAA card but I'd like to attend college for ATC and then apply at the FAA. I know they do a background check and their site implies that I'll have to explain a general discharge as well as any "derogatory employment terminations." Am I hosed getting on with the FAA?

You Guys really sweat this OTH shit too much. Pick yourself up and move on. I got an OTH in 2001 for cocaine. I was a Sergeant in Quality Assurance (Pretty Important Position) with a CH46E helicopter squadron. I was an outstanding Marine on the eve of my reenlistment. I happened to go home with a nice piece of ass on a friday night and happened to do some coke somwhere in the process. One piss test and six months of bullshit later and I was out on my ass with an OTH. Yeah, I felt bad about it for a while. But once I realized that the only true consequences related to my OTH were losing relatively useless government benefits and hurt pride, I began to feel a little better. I'm finishing up two Bachelor degrees at Southern Illinois University paid for by none other than Uncle Sam himself in the form of Pell grants, Map Grants, and a few small student loans. I plan on getting a good job when I graduate. I already have a few options for employment. Id like to thank the Commandant for for saving me from reenlisting by personally shoving my OTH and my two college degrees up his ass. Well, forget the last thing I said.
The point is that an OTH is far from a death sentence. As a matter of fact you should feel liberated. You can still go to college for free without the GI bill. Just contact any financial aid office at any University and they will tell you how. If you dont want to go to college you can still get a job. Just keep the OTH on the hush. Most employers are too fucking lazy and cheap to spend too much time looking into your past. I highly recommend going to college. Not only does graduating present you with a whole new set of oppurtunites, but the pussy and the pot are both absofuckinglutely incredible as well. So pick yourself up exiled Marines, Soldiers, Sailors, and Airmen, and enjoy being a civilian again. God bless our young men and women risking their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan, but I am perfectly happy knowing that when Im done posting this, Im going to go sit on my back porch and smoke a fat doob. Peace to all of my OTH brothers and sisters, and good luck in your adventures.

A few more things-
1:Its very difficult to get a discharge upgraded if you dont know someone. Not that I dont recomend trying, but dont get your hopes up.

2: It seems like alot of people on this site really want out of the service. I suggest toughing it out if you can. Almost anyone can find their niche in a unit if they really try and give it some time. An OTH isnt that big of a deal but if you don't have to get one, than dont... asshole.
3:Some people genuinely arent cut out for the military, and to you I suggest to forego the lying about being gay, or purposely popping, and to just continue on being a useless non-hacker. My unit discharged two Marines during my stay for being absolutely useless to the Corps i.e. repeatedly failing PFT's, poor personal appearance etc. The reason Im telling you to not lie is because if you get caught lying, youre fucked. Theyll make life worse on you than you could ever imagine. They can also give you a BCD or dishonorable if you go too far trying to get out. We had one dumbass shoot himself in the knee with a twenytwo and claim his gun accidentally went off. No only did he severely fuck himself up, but he got caught lying, special court martialled, sent to the brig, and hes still munching on his Big Chicken Dinner today. If you get a BCD or Dishonorable youre going to have a tough life because because unlike an OTH these show up on civilian background checks as misdemeanors or felonies. I dont know about other branches of the service, but my experience in the Marines taught me that they will do anything to rid themselves of what they consider serious shitbags. We used to have a saying "you cant polish a turd". The advantage of getting out under these circumstances is if you need to get your discharge upgraded in the future its much easier to say they didnt like me because I couldnt pass my PFT, was overweight, looked like shit in uniform, and wasnt good at my job, than to say I did a line of blow or I like a big fat cock in my ass. I know it sounds silly, but the officers that review discharges are pretty much set in their little military jackoff ways. Just some food for thought.
4:I know the military isnt everything its cracked up to be, and in many cases just a big load of shit. But dont let it get the best of you if you dont have to. If it is at all possible suck it up swallow your pride and tough it out, youll thank yourself for it later.
5:Sgt Ski wherever you are- Eat a dick you fucking dogooder. Im so fucking sorry that some of us enjoy having a good time and that might include doing a line of blow or getting stoned every once in a while. You probably get drunk and beat your wife or jerk off to gay magazines at the local smut shop. But go ahead and pass judgement on my fellow OTH'rs and I. Im sure your lifestyle is the epitome of rightousness.

I was in the process of getting a medical discharge for injuries sustained in iraq, after my medical records disapeared (and col. Gonzalez, U.S. army, Medical was the last person to sign them out)(what the hell is the OIC doing sighing out medical records)and the senior nco's going off post to retrive medical info on my injuries(against Privacy act of 1974)The military will use you to the last drop. i broke every record Ft. Stewart ga ever had, won all the boards and was # 1 in all pt test, why the hell was i a PFC for 3 years. I was illigially flagged and it was never removed, one thing left to the other and after all the pills they made me take I ended up with an OTH. One week short of my medical discharge, an investigation was opened. my car was stolen and after a high speed persuit with gun shots the cops finally cought them and they told CID i told them to do it But they never met me. I got insurance fraud charges and the medical was dropped. Fuck Them, All i did for them to get this. I was down for a long time, I now own my own business and i make double what the highest officer on that fucking board makes, and this year i'm shooting for triple. I got out in dec of 03 and im not turning back.

I got caught with defrauding the Gov't by claiming a false BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing) My mother needed the money real bad, cuz it was shortly after my father passed away. She was dignosed with Post Traumatic stress disorder, and other pysch. things, as well as amnesia. Her body was feeling her physical affects. I felt it was something I had to do.I have had a perfect record ETT DCTT as a third class. I have had a flawless record, and now with 5.5 years in and 6 months left, this is how they repay me. With an oth and 2 months brig time. I need to know how to get it upgraded to general. I need the college money. when I get out, and can I get a decent job? Somebody help me quick. e-mail me at dragonclaw9921@msn.com

Im a active duty sgt in the corps and the first words i heard today were, top wants to see you in his office. so i go see top and boom! youve popped positive for THC, 6 fricking years ive waisted down the shitter!!! i say to myself. question is how many times do people get BCD's for this, becuase i could live with a OTH, fuck it, i wanted out after this contract was up anyways, but a BCD would really suck. the scary thing is i have 3 kids and a wife too support, and think ive ruined all thier lives.

but after reading this board im starting to realize there may be life after the corps.

Hey Aaron. Youre not getting a BCD for popping positive for THC. They will threaten you with it, but their is no way a Judge will allow a BCD no matter how bad your chain of command wants you to get one. Another thing, if it hasn't happened already, NCIS is going to want to talk to you. Tell them politely to go fuck themselves. They are going to threaten you with all kinds of bullshit. Say nothing to them.. You have a right to talk to a lawyer, and you need to do that before anything else, no matter what your chain of command tells you to do. You can not get in any trouble for this no matter how much it pisses off NCIS and your chain of command. Your lawyer will tell all of this if he hasnt already. Popping on a piss test is a pretty cut and dry process. Youll get busted down and all the other shit that comes with it, and then youll be discharged with an OTH.

Use the time that the Corps spends fucking with your case to develop a solid plan for when you get out. Start looking for jobs, applying for college, or both. You should also allot out as much of your paycheck as possible. This way if your unit tries to take money from you at your courts martial or NJP they can only take up to half of what you do not have allotted out. So open a savings account and start your allotment. Also if you are serving your second enlistment right now (you served your first enlistment honorably) you are still entitled to all your benefits including your GI bill.

Im sure youre probably feeling alot of shitty things right now, but their is alot you can do to minimize your punishment and the impact this has on your civilian life. Good luck AAron

hey does an oth fuck up any possibility of getting in to college and will it fuck any opportunity to get a job after college?

thank you nick for your reply. it makes me feel less like a "shitbird"
unfortunantly ive alread talked to NCIS, it was the first thing they had me
do, and i ammited to smoking pot, i thought hell they got a positive result
back so theres no point in denying it. thier gonna send me and the other
popers up to a special court marshal, and probably make a example of us,
becuase i work on the V-22 osprey and were a training unit under alot of
magnifying glasses, so im really scared as to what thier gonna do to a
career sgt that popped for drugs.

as for the Gi bill, i keep hearing that im gonna lose it, even though im on
my second contract, theres so much bullshit, and its really hard to tell
whats fact or fiction in the corps.
other rumor is that they will try to keep me in after my court marshall to
finish out my contract, but im hopeing they just give me the boot, im so fed
up with this life, all its done is made me a bitter man, with alot of debt.

i know i should get a civillian lawer but, its expensive and dont think ill
be able to afford one, is there anypoint in getting a millitary lawer, or
would that be like shooting myself in the foot, sorry i know theres alot of
questions, but like i said before and as you know the millitarys full of
bullshit rumors that you cant rely on.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicholas Schrementi"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 11:11 PM
Subject: Some stuff you should know about pissing POS

> Hey Aaron. Youre not getting a BCD for popping
> positive for THC. They will threaten you with it, but
> their is no way a Judge will allow a BCD no matter how
> bad your chain of command wants you to get one.
> Another thing, if it hasn't happened already, NCIS is
> going to want to talk to you. Tell them politely to go
> fuck themselves. They are going to threaten you with
> all kinds of bullshit. Say nothing to them.. You have
> a right to talk to a lawyer, and you need to do that
> before anything else, no matter what your chain of
> command tells you to do. You can not get in any
> trouble for this no matter how much it pisses off NCIS
> and your chain of command. Your lawyer will tell all
> of this if he hasnt already. Popping on a piss test is
> a pretty cut and dry process. Youll get busted down
> and all the other shit that comes with it, and then
> youll be discharged with an OTH.
>
> Use the time that the Corps spends fucking with your
> case to develop a solid plan for when you get out.
> Start looking for jobs, applying for college, or both.
> You should also allot out as much of your paycheck as
> possible. This way if your unit tries to take money
> from you at your courts martial or NJP they can only
> take up to half of what you do not have allotted out.
> So open a savings account and start your allotment.
> Also if you are serving your second enlistment right
> now (you served your first enlistment honorably) you
> are still entitled to all your benefits including your
> GI bill.
>
> Im sure youre probably feeling alot of shitty things
> right now, but their is alot you can do to minimize
> your punishment and the impact this has on your
> civilian life. Good luck AAron- Nick

ooppss copied wrong post

Hi, ya i was like wondering, would it even matter about all those people who came up hot on a urinalisis the day someone bombs the shit out of us(refering to united states) with a nuclear weapon or gases us with biological or chemical weapon? What do you think the military would say..? Oh, you got an other than honorable discharge, so you can't come back in. Oh, even better... I know that half the fucking population in our country are dead, but you smoked weed, or did coke or meth or whatever and those types of people are bad, so you cant come back in. Did anyone ever consider if a Military draft was ordered if any this shit mattered too... I THINK NOT!!!

I have an OTH from back in 1991. I didn't do anything, per se, no disciplinary problems, I just wanted out because the command I was at SUCKED ASS. I went to my CO and SgtMaj and told them that I wanted to get out. They forwarded my request to the base CO and he helped me get out within a month. I had been in the Marine Corps for 8 years and basically had enough, with a couple years left on my SECOND enlistment. Now, almost 15 years later, I think I might want to try getting on with the Fire Department. Here's my question, I have a DD214. I don't have it in my possession, but I was honorably discharged and reenlisted in 1987. I reenlisted for 6 years and only made it another four before personal problems made me ask to get out.

Will I have a problem getting on with the Fire Department with an OTH if I also have an Honorable? Will anybody care after 15 or more years? By the time I finish fire school and paramedic school, it will probably be another two years or more. Thanks in advance for any advice.

JJ, i was in the Marines for only 11 months before i got in trouble for refusing to go to PANAMA and get some action fighting a war on drugs that i thought wasn't worth it. Shit, i regret it but at the time it was a political stand that i took because i believed in it.

It was a huge mistake and i am very sorry for doing what i did. I was UA for 12 months after i had missed my flight going to RODMAN BASE, PANAMA to serve as a MARINE SECURITY FORCES GUARD.

This was in 1989 AND I RECIEVED an BAD CONDUCT DISCHARGE after i turned myself in 13 months later.

Well, i am currently waiting to see if i passed the Police Officer Civil Service Exam here in Massachusetts and if i do i will not lie about my DD214 because they will find out however, in your case it isn't as bad as my situation so you should be ok so long as you don't hide it because they want the truth and that's why i would not hire you if you wanted the job...FOR NOT BEING TRUTHFUL. ;)

Myself i have to say that i was 19 and i just wasn;t thinking mature enough to stay in because it was an option and like an idiot thinking like a 19 year old let the opportunity slip away.

Shit, I LOVED THE MARINE CORPS then and now but mistakes are forever.

Anyway, i wish yo luck JJ and to all the other ex - Marines.

Regarding my case i told the Human Resources Center personal that handle the Police Officer testing that i was wondering if that would affect me in gettting the job and he said no but DO NOT lie about because all that DD214 serves for is for preference in getting selected first.

Being Latin American in a city of preference and where i live in Massachusetts will help me attain the job because the city is in pretty much "GOOD NEED" of foreign language speaking Officers.

Interesting Stuff Gents

Sorry shit didn't work out for alot of us in The Military but life goes on just be truthful if you must because if not, it will lead to more mistakes...so stop right now while you are ahead.

Be very apologetic and mean it...don't just say it just to say it...im 34 now and i have learned my lesson.

An upgrade is very much complex but it is possible, but from what i have learned it only helps if there really was an error that caused the title of your discharge to be titled something else...they do look at your status and decorations but mainly look at the thing that got you in trouble in the first place...THAT'S HOW THE MARINE CORPS HAS ALWAYS BEEN so expect that yet battle for your right...one thing we all did was volunteer and that took balls all on it's own and, i believe that makes you in a sense better thaan the next tom dick and harry who slept while we went through the "Crusible".

PEACE,

JOSE LEBRON

(Just JOE please)

Just a reminder to anyone reading the above post. His mistakes are forever and be honest part is refering to trying to get a civil service job, not a private sector job.

Also if you get whatever job you need to have to get by until you work for yourself then the concept of disscharge type should become even more irrelevant.

Other companies like Enron and WorldCom screwed people who worked for them for 30 years and retired.

Bush is trying to exploit social security retirement savings from people too, but I am hoping his shady SSI pillaging ideals do not become legislation.

The best bet for employment security is to find a way to create automated income streams where you work for yourself, but as a person who has done that I can say it is a lot of work to do that honestly.

I was in the first Gulf War. Once I came back I partied, tested positive, and recieved an OTH. I still love the Corps. If I were asked to return, I would go.

Now I am an Engineer, I have and AAS degree and I am working on my BS degree. Just like the rest of you, I made a mistake. The way I see it is I was under the impression we always looked out for each other, like family. Well in 1991, that family, rather then help me, persecuted me. Call it a sick one sided love for the Corps. but I would still stand alongside any Marine. And when I say SEMPER FIDELIS, I freakin mean it.

tell me about it, they make you fell like you killed someone.
went to talk to legal yesturday and he gave me the lowdown on the proceedings, and what they could do to me for the mistake i made...the worst one would be reduction to E-1 and a year in the brig...for pot!!!
man i just think to myself if this was the civillian world id get a slap on the wrist and a fine.

the Aaron who just posted is not the Aaron who runs this site. They may have been using scare tacticts to try to encourage a plea.

No reason to make any pleas or admit to anything until after you speak to legitimate legal council. Those people will fuck you and not care. If they did care about people and humanity they probably would not be in a leadership position in the military.

man thier sticking it to me at work, everyday consists of the same routine, clean the hanger deck all day long, but dont get cuaght staning around or its musters 4 times a day... what a bunch of jerks, they act like i killed someone. still no word on when the court marshall will be, man six months of hanger deck, word of advice never pop on piss test.
if ui didnt have a family to support id probably go ua

Thanks for this site, my son popped for coke and all around us was nothing but negative. Every post(most of them anyway) gave me hope, and i passed it along told everyone to go read aaron wall. this is not the end of his life it is the start of a new one. Thanks and Best wishes to all of you!!!

I wish I had found this site ALOT sooner. I am in the same boat as a bunch of you guys. I was on float in 01, I was on the Kearsarge when 9/11 happened. and when we came back home I was sent back to my parent unit in the Corps. Well push comes to shove and had a whiz quiz...guess what I popped for X. I had never done any drugs in my life but some how there was 65000 nanograms in my urine...do you know how much that is? but the thing is my test was done in November but they didn't get the "results" til Feb 27, the day before I was to get promoted, meritoriously, to Sgt. I was only in the Corp for 2 years 7 months by this point. I was told that I was getting kicked out and they wanted a confession, I told them to fuck off and they gave me an OTH with a RE-4B. I graduated boot camp COMPANY Honor man, picke dup PFC because of it, then was Top in my class at MCT, Meritorious Mast; went to MOS school and graduated again top of my class, picked up Lcpl, sent to my duty station and got a NAM for being the only Embarker for Dynamic Mix 00 and completely running the show; got another NAM on float when I was promoted to Cpl in less than 2 years. When I got back I learned there was bad blood between me and my "NEW" Butter bar, I had Billet, he had Rank, I was in charge. Long story short I was kicked out 3 months after meeting this guy. I had NEVER been trouble before. I was a Police Cadet in HS, Volunteered at the Humane Society, Got an Associetes Degree in my 1st year of service, etc...I was an MODEL MARINE. Shit I was Marine of the Quarter at my Unit in my second year in, hence meritorious Sgt. I had 62 Marines working for me during 9/11 and they had to look up to someone, then all this came down? I was stabbed in the back by the very people I had come to love and look up to. I had the backing of EVERY E-7 and below in my Unit at me Sep board and they still gave me the boot. I recently learned that my LT was kicked out for drug posession, is there anything I can do to contest my service record? I have a REALLY good job now, doing what I did in the military, LOGISTICS. I don't know why I want the upgrade, I have never told a single employer that I was kicked out until now, but my boss said he doesn't care, I'm too good at what I do; and that is follow the rules and get shit done.

The Marines are not a BAND OF BROTHERS, they are aforce of vindictive, coniving, pricks, who have no idea what MORALS are, or HONOR, or COMMITMENT!!! Semper Fi my ASS!!! TO this day I am in touch with most of my "friends" and send them magazines and food/treats over seas. I do what I can for the people who were there for me. Shit I make more than my CO now!!!

Once upon a time, long, long, long, ago (pre-1975), the Army "illegally" gave other-than-honorable discharges to many service members as the result of compelled urinalysis testing for the purpose of drug rehabilitation (either for entry into a drug program, or to monitor progress while in such a program).

In 1979, giving a less-than-honorable discharge for such testing was deemed illegal.

On November 27, 1979, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia in ''Giles v. Secretary of the Army" (Civil Action No. 77-0904), ruled that a former Army service member is entitled to an honorable discharge, if discharged before 1 January 1975 as a result of an administrative proceeding in which the Army introduced evidence developed by or as a direct or indirect result of compelled urinalysis testing administered for the purpose of identifying drug abusers (either for the purposes of entry into a treatment program or to monitor progress through rehabilitation or follow up).

In other words, the court said it was okay to discharge for such urinalysis results, but it was not okay to base the service-characterization on such results.

BTW...I thought I should mention that My Butter Bar was a British Royal Marine before joining MY Corps and he new my Grandpa who was a former Col. in the Irish Republican Army. So there was bad blood between us already.

justin, it sounds like you got framed, id try to take it to the naval seps board or something...

heres an update on my saga, they fucked up the piss test by not haveing the witnesses sign, and not filling out the chain of custody paper work...ha dumb asses, i sent a letter to my congrassman tonight and 60 minuetes...fuck em!

bet ya theyll still try to cover up the paper work fuck up and send me to a special court martial...

funny thing ive always said while in the corps is "if the marine corps was a buisness it go bankrupt"

fucking idiots

Wow, so glad I found this site. Truly inspirational.

There are 2 types of people in this world, those who accept their circumstances and those who have an open mind and realize there is always a choice. Both have posted on this board and both have received every kind of discharge. I read the post where the guy got kicked out for refusing to fight a war he didn't believe in. Now he seems to have lost that open mind he used to have.

It's a difficult thing. Most the time in life, the right choice is the hard one...but those are the things that determine who we are and where we go in life.

Right now I am on active duty in the navy. I'm a nuke also, heh. Maybe not anymore though...I have a legal case pending for disobeying a lawful order. I didn't agree with it and finally hit a point where I had to make the right choice. Honestly, it was something most people would not be in that much trouble for. However, I really pissed them off, although not on purpose. I just told the truth and they knew I wouldn't back down or give in to them. Well anyway, going through the process, they had me write a statement on what happened. I told them what and why. Funny thing is, when I got to thinking about the "why?" I realized this was a long time coming. I finally hit a point where I decided to threaten to break the oath I made. And I told them what had led me to it...the low morale within our division...the favortism...the fraternization...the stealing, the lying, the mistreatment. I told it all. In all likelyhood they will try and cover it all up. I don't think I'll stop now though. If the command tries to cover it up, I'll go as high as I have to...I'll talk to the CO, then the admiral. If that doesn't work, I'll talk to someone in congress. If that doesn't work, I'll send a letter to the president himself. And if that doesn't work, I still have the first amendment. I will write a book about my career and all the injustices that have taken place. Because I know I am in the right on this. I may have placed careers in jeopardy, including my own, but I am glad I made the choices I did.

They hate me. I no longer let them walk on me. A lot of people say the navy owns you. I, however, am no slave. They only own those who let them.

My case is pending. I am ready for whatever happens. I will be more successful in my life than any of them.

My husband is getting out with an OTH for homosexual conduct and falseification of an official document. His board was last week and I am 9 months pregnant! How long does it take bupers to get the paperwork done? Because i have moved back home and i'm awaiting his arrival. Thanks

is it true that with a general discharge i can't get enployed by the post office? i passed the test, drug test, and oral interview they said everything looked good until they saw my discharge. i thought a general discharge was good enough to get in. am i wrong please help me find some where that it says that with a general discharge i can't work in the post office. thank's

Im a reservist in the USMC and i am thinking of going UA for good. Ive ben to basic but im on the college split program. I have not been to MOS or MCT and i am wondering if i dont report to those this summer, will it be worse than an OTH?

Also, if i just dont show up to drill and i dont answer their calls whats their next step? I heard they come to your house for your gear? lol is this true?
How long does it take before they discharge you if your a reservist?
I know they were calling some of the marines for like 2 years every month untill finally they took them off the roster.

Thanks for the help.

Anthony Rivera

Thats a bunch if BS they told you. I worked for the USPS and I have an OTH...I worked there 4 months after getting the boot.

I had a question...does it really take ten days to process out in Virginia. I just got a General under honorable conditions, and I'm dreading going to Norfolk. I spent one day there and I hate the damn TPU. Any help in this matter would be appreciated.

I was discharged in april of 03 for a positive urinalysis for marujuana. I went to a club with an in law of mine at the time, started feeling bad and went to go make a phone call. The next thing i seen was the bright light of a hospital room at balboa. I had been informed that i had been picked up via ambulance and that toxicology revealed thc in my bloodwork. I received 45/45 1/2 months pay for two months and was processed out on an OTH.
Since I have been out of the navy i have relocated home in nc. I have not been able to find hardly any info on OTH'S or what to do about them. I am interested in facts on how it affects you're civilian life as far as employment status and benefits if any, and upgrades if possible. If anyone has factual information please feel free to contact me at darius_blah@yahoo.com

My husband is being kicked out of the usn on an oth discharge. He didn't tell on a friend w/ drugs. We just got married and are trying to buy a house w/ his va! We started the whole loan process before we knew he was getting the boot. Can they take away his va eligibility and make us loose this house??? Please help w/ answers!

sara,
Chances are the VA loan will still go through. It takes forever for paperwork to get around and the military loves to paper fuck its militants.

Aaron, If you get a chances can you answer my previous post...or anyone can answer...
I just need to know what will probably happen.
Thanx

hello all...
my name is cody i have served 2 years in the usmc and i popped positive on a wiz quiz x2. I have no record of drug use...or any NJP or page 11's. i had 4.6/4.7 pro/con i went on a special court martial and was reduced to e-1 and loss of $200 a month for 6 months and spent 40 days in the brig, but i never recived a discharge....i thought i was staying in untill my chasers came to pick me up one day to do my final phisical. my command is ad seping me with a oth...i dont get it, is this going to ruin me? im 20 and all i want is to get into school... i dont know how much longer i can stay sain and not lose it...i have been a pvt now for 4 months and still waiting on my 5 day letter..i get stuck on the shittest working parties cuz i lost my security clearance....im bout to go mad...does anyone have some advice? if so email me coatzbanky@yahoo.com
oh yeah one last thing EAT THE APPLE...FUCK THE CORPS...OH-RAH!!!

Cody,
You got fucked. You should not have done any brig time or lost that much money. You can still get into school and get federal jobs...Like you said...FUCK THE CORPS...They try to scare you, thats all it is is scare tactics. When I got out I went to school part time and worked for the Post Office, so the whole OTH fucking up your life thing is all how you react to it. Don't let the fuckers get you down...KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!!!

one more word of advise to all awaiting seperation, or court martial or njp...

dont give those bastards anymore ammo then they alread have on you.

in other words, im a sgt (usmc) scrubbing shitters awaitning courtmartial, and thier just waiting for me to fuck up in anyway so they can add another charge sheet to the list.

if it was up to my command they would have me busted down all the way to pvt, put in the brig, take all my pay, starve my family, and fuck my civilian life. im not gonna give them the chance, fuck em, just do what ever time you have left, take all the bullshit they throw at you, and get the fuck out...

funny! the marine corps preaches about being profeshional, but doesnt practice it....

To the soldiers and marines.....wow. I could not do what you heros do. I'm a nuke on the Roosevelt. I don't get shot at. I will never know the hell that you men and women face. I have another hell to face. I get to work with 1950's technology while trying to prevent turning a port into a nuclear waste site. You guys got "Full Metal Jacket" or "Platoon"...I got "Office Space". We are taught to question every order. I've seen guys go to NJP's for following orders. 5 years of operating experience going up against some fucking wannabe flight office from the academy. No matter what your ASVAB score, the military destroyes you. I nearly went to mast for assault on a commisioned officer. Got told we would only hit Crete in an entire 6 month cruise. I have a serious issue with alcohal. I volunteer for liberty restriction knowing I had a problem with alcohal. I broke down.....next day I faced 17 charges. How do you attempt to assualt and assualt the same commisioned officer? Turned out to be the XO of the Air Wing. Dropped all charges since the shore patrol guy that pulled me in was drunk at the time. I also had photo's of me drinking with the head of sercurity for my boat. Third, I was already standing 5 and 10's and due to radiation stay times we can't offically do 6 and 6's in a critical plant. Yeah, radiation saved my career. Worst part, I was lied to through the whole process. Now as an E-5, I serve as the unoffical lawyer for M-Div. I have helped many since learning the hard way. The individuals using their experiences to help others through this site are doing a tremendous service to many people. Even the clueless bastards like me still in. Thank you.

To the soldiers and marines.....wow. I could not do what you heros do. I'm a nuke on the Roosevelt. I don't get shot at. I will never know the hell that you men and women face. I have another hell to face. I get to work with 1950's technology while trying to prevent turning a port into a nuclear waste site. You guys got "Full Metal Jacket" or "Platoon"...I got "Office Space". We are taught to question every order. I've seen guys go to NJP's for following orders. 5 years of operating experience going up against some fucking wannabe flight office from the academy. No matter what your ASVAB score, the military destroyes you. I nearly went to mast for assault on a commisioned officer. Got told we would only hit Crete in an entire 6 month cruise. I have a serious issue with alcohal. I volunteer for liberty restriction knowing I had a problem with alcohal. I broke down.....next day I faced 17 charges. How do you attempt to assualt and assualt the same commisioned officer? Turned out to be the XO of the Air Wing. Dropped all charges since the shore patrol guy that pulled me in was drunk at the time. I also had photo's of me drinking with the head of sercurity for my boat. Third, I was already standing 5 and 10's and due to radiation stay times we can't offically do 6 and 6's in a critical plant. Yeah, radiation saved my career. Worst part, I was lied to through the whole process. Now as an E-5, I serve as the unoffical lawyer for M-Div. I have helped many since learning the hard way. The individuals using their experiences to help others through this site are doing a tremendous service to many people. Even the clueless bastards like me still in. Thank you.

I would like anyone who has been discharged for misuse of marajuana to reply on the forum, due to the fact that I'd down have an email and would like to keep my personal info private. How long did it take from the time you went to NJP for you to get completely discharged from the Navy? This is without an administrative board request. PLEASE help. I have a job on the outside and the JAG office is being wishy-washy. Right now I am on 30 days restriction and was told that I could be discharged BEFORE my restriction ends. By the way, a trick to get another month's pay (if you have 30 days leave and are being discharged with an OTH). Hopefully you have some leave days saved up. When you get off restriction (if it takes that long) take all the leave from that very second on. Do your most of checkout work while you're on leave. This includes everything up until getting your pay ended and your DD214 received. On the last day of your leave, finish EVERYTHING you need to, and go to your chain of command with all of your paperwork done. Make sure you don't tell them about it ahead of time, though. Maybe if you can trust your LPO, give them a head's up, but say it's only a posibilty that you can do it depending on your paperwork trail ;). This is so you don't lose any money for leave days you save up since you can't sell them back to the Navy if you get an OTH! :) If I learn anything else, I'll let you know.

Does anyone have any recent story's for turning yourself in from being UA for the Marine Corp? I'm about to do so and I'd like to know what to expect, I'm also past 90 days. Thanks to anyone who helps and thanks arron for this site that gives people like me hope.

I was discharged from the US Navy in 1986 for getting popped on a urinalysis. I was not even in for 2 years. I think I got an OTH but not sure. I have always said NONE when asked about military service and I have never been questioned. I even hold a few state licenses and it's never come up.
I am wanting to try and upgrade mine now to buy a house VA. Since it's been so long ago do you guys think this is at all possible? How can I find out what discharge I received?

I was AWOL from the navy but was only 45 days. I was court marshalled and sent to do a UA and thats what got me discharged. Not sure in the USMC. My sons in the USMC now but is doing ok.

I would like anyone who has been discharged for misuse of marajuana to reply on the forum, due to the fact that I'd down have an email and would like to keep my personal info private. How long did it take from the time you went to NJP for you to get completely discharged from the Navy? This is without an administrative board request. PLEASE help. I have a job on the outside and the JAG office is being wishy-washy. Right now I am on 30 days restriction and was told that I could be discharged BEFORE my restriction ends. By the way, a trick to get another month's pay (if you have 30 days leave and are being discharged with an OTH). Hopefully you have some leave days saved up. When you get off restriction (if it takes that long) take all the leave from that very second on. Do your most of checkout work while you're on leave. This includes everything up until getting your pay ended and your DD214 received. On the last day of your leave, finish EVERYTHING you need to, and go to your chain of command with all of your paperwork done. Make sure you don't tell them about it ahead of time, though. Maybe if you can trust your LPO, give them a head's up, but say it's only a posibilty that you can do it depending on your paperwork trail ;). This is so you don't lose any money for leave days you save up since you can't sell them back to the Navy if you get an OTH! :) If I learn anything else, I'll let you know.
Posted by: bitter_achiever at May 30, 2005 06:57 PM

Dude, you'll be out the day you get off of restriction and extra duty if you have any. They want you're usefulness up to the very end. i had 45/45 and 1/2 mo. pay for 2 mo. I was out the day i got off of restriction. pack you're shit up and get escorted to the main gate of the base.

I was stationed at naval station san diego on limdu workin at the 1st Lt.'s office.

Well...some good did come out of my whole situation after all. My conditional waiver was approved and I am getting out with a General Under Honorable Conditions. My advice to all Army troops facing discharge is to stick to your guns and learn the regulations. My lawyer said I made his job extremely easy by knowing what was REALLY going on. To give you some background I popped for meth and it's something I'm not proud of, but it happened and that's that. In the end it all came down to a quid pro quo situation. I gave up my board in exchange for the better characterization of service. Focus on the GOOD points of your service when you write your letter to the commander and apologize emphatically for your transgressions.I know it takes a toll on your pride but feeding some commander's ego to improve your situation is a small price to pay for a piece of "good paper."
Let them know that you don't intend to make a petition to your congressman and that you won't make any negative statements to the media. It may sound trife, but it is leverage you can use in your favor. At a time when the Army is in a crunch for recruits the last thing they need is bad press. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL!! Remember that your time in service does not define you as a person. YOU ARE WHAT YOU'LL DO WHEN IT COUNTS!!!

De Oppresso Liber

Tim C.

I was just booted out of the navy with an oth for patterns of misconduct may 19th 2005 after 2 years and 2 months of giving up my rights to protect others my legal officer ltjg brown vfa-122 nas lemoore california hangar 5 dropped me off at the back gate in the middle of miles of field and farmland with all my shit took a picture of me and said bye expecting me to walk 10 miles to civilization in 93 degree weather, and when someone offered to give me a ride out of the goodness of their heart ltjg brown advised him not to give me a ride anywhere, after basically telling the officer to fuck off he gave me a ride anyways. So all my fellow oth'ERS there's hope for us after all because were not bad people the military just says we are when they're the most fucked up of them all!!! So anyways my point is FUCK THE UNITED STATES NAVY!!!

Well, first off I would just like to thank Aaron for creating this site. I've just entered a world of uncertainty, but thanks to you I can see a little clearer now.
Here's my story, I had just started training at Ft. Benning GA but could not and would not accept the mental degration those people make you suffer in order to 'break you down'. Never have I felt myself to be in such a hostile environment where if you were not with the Army, you were against them. I recieved threats, was harrassed, and basically could not see the fine line between lie and truth amongst these assholes. So I left and am now considered AWOL. I've read stories on your sight that they will try and restart me if I return within 30 days, but if I am a deserter that they will give me an OTH discharge. I'm fine with the discharge, I just want to make sure that when I return that I get the discharge.
I'm a college student with one year complete, still maintaining above a 3.0 GPA. My life was set before the Army and then some Recruiter coaxed me with a pretty picture. How I loved the idea of physical training all summer before going back to college, basically a way to stay fit because I like to run, and weight lift and all that. But could not adapt to their uniformity, their structure, the way they want you to be like a machine, and the way they treat you. I cannot respect someone who has no respect for me. All I want is to return to college, get my degree, and forget about this whole military thing. Everyone told me it was not for me, and now I see why after having been in training for 4 weeks.
Should I turn myself in before or after 30 days to ensure that I will receive the dischare and not be restarted?
Thank you for your advice, it means a lot to me.

I believe you can get a failure to conform discharge if you are new to the service. try talking to your Chaplain and the like. Don't try to reason with your command if they do not respect you and are not being reasonable to you.

I understand what you have said, but I'm still uncertain as to whether I should return as AWOL or a Deserter. I've heard that each carries it's own consequences, you know, if I turn myself in while I'm still AWOL or after the 30 day mark.

the consequences of your decision might be a bit too important to rely upon free advice over the web.

some options: try the helping out site or contact a lawyer or go back and talk to a chaplain.

in the past they were lax when people quit the reserves, but now that many of them are going over ot Iraq to die (for oil) they may be a bit less lax on letting people out.

I think you should turn yourself in awol because we are in war time and the penalty for deserters in war time is death. I'm not saying they're going to do that to you since you are new to the service, but if you want to get on with your life I wouldn't chance it.

The military isnt lax at alll...look at what the recruiters are doing now...They resorted to kidknapping in FL. and here in IL recruiters are civilians, no military background.

Confused Soul, here's the best advice I can give, call the GI Rights hotline. To get the number just google it. As for me I'm a UA marine and I have to wait 180 days before turning myself in to get a discharge. So good luck.

Hello to Everyone,
I really appreciate the support and the advice. I called up the hotline yesterday and am now set straight, or at least for the next 30 days until I'm dropped from the rolls. Thanks, I will post my story after everything goes down in about a month.

hello everyone...thanx arron for this site it has given me hope...well he is my story...my husband is in the us navy ,he is a E-5 resently busted down to an E-4 he has been in the navy for 5 yrs now ...He recently did somethings that are a bit out of his character..first was when we where stoppes by the MP's after begin wavied through the gate ,we had just arrived to the island and still had out of state plates ,lons story short he got out of the car after 15 min of just sitting there and he ended up in hang cuffs on the ground and in the brig .then a few months had passed and he is in trouble again for grabbing a seamen after this guy pissed him off he did not hit him he only shook the boy,then he got in trouble for telling his 1 st class to keep his name out of him mouth or he was going to punch him in the head,after all this he went on and as a practical joke that went too far called the deck one day and said there is a bomb on board what are you going to do about it...then called back immediatly and retracted his statment ......well he went to DRB and mass and they have decided to kick him out due to the fact that they think that he has anger managment issues and the see a pattern going .he is currently waiting to go before the admin sep board and is trying to stay navy..... only cause we have 3 kids and are fearful of not having a paycheck...the command failed to see that he made rank within 6 months at his last command..does this count for anything??the only other thime he was taken to mass was 4 yrs ago after fighting with a shipmate..and they are even holding this against him ....I was depressed ,but after reading all of your storys I have found some hope..Life does go on after the navy,.....thankx....so my question is Is there a chance that he will not be kicked out??

hello all, thanks aaron for this site. I was in the navy 6 days out of high school in 1995 to 1996. . I had about a year in and my ship was decommissioning (it was an aircraft carrier)after it i got sent to a crappy ass small ship and it sucked hard, i never adapted to any of my new crewmates. I had a gravy job , running the ships store but my shipmates in my division were completely stuck on themselves they would steal things from the store (unknown to me at the time but i had an idea) Eventually i was got popped on a radom ua and tested positive.I recieved an oth. Before capatins mast the c.o. said "you'll never get a job now" but it was complete bullshit. I have had 2 decent and 1 really good job. I only put down my navy exp. 1 time and they asked me why i got out early. I told them my family was having trouble and and i needed out and they granted it. The employer belived me and it was never brought up again. So dont say nothing about it, hell say it was honorable if you do put it on an application chances are they wont look it up. If you need to try to get your oth or worse upgraded, contact your local va, mines cool as hell and very helpful. Right now Im in the process of getting mine upgraded to a general discharge just for piece of mind for myself.... anyway good luck to everyone

>so my question is Is there a chance that he will not be kicked out??

based on how you told the story he is almost certainly getting kicked out.

BLAH BLAH BLAH, DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS, WINE WINE WINE......STOP BEING IDIOTS, SAY YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL, MOST LIKELY YOU WILL BE HONORABLY DISCHARGED, NO ONE CAN DISCRIMINATE AGAINST YOU IN EMPLOYMENT FOR IT, IT WILL SAVE YOU A LOT OF THOUGH AND HASSE, BUT SOME GAY POORN AND LOOK AT IT WHILE ON THE JOB OR SOMETHING, STOP BEING STUPID ALREADY!

has anyone heard about the "second chance sailor"program?? where they supposedly put you in a diffrent command and start you off again??

The second chance sailor can work out for some, but we had a couple go off our boat and a couple go on our boat.

The ones that left were viewed as shitbags. The ones that I can remember coming to the boat were also viewed as shitbags pretty quickly.

It can work out, but like anything else I think it is luck of the draw. Your best bet is to think of what you can do when you get out.

Well after reading you alls comments I dont feel so bad anymore, because I thought i was one of the few who told the army to kiss my ass. I was 1 of about 10 soldiers in my company to get kicked out for burning up a piss test. And it was no mistake. Now dont get it confused I was not a ragbag soldier. I was promoted to E-5 in three years. But that didnt matter when they found out there beloved soldier was a weed-head. I had been smoking the whole time I was in. I just woke up one morning and I realized that I didnt trust my chain of command and they really gave 2 shits about me. I failed my urinalysis after I re-enlisted so that locked in my benefits. When I found this out I REALLY didnt give a fuck. Dont get me wrong The Army taught me how to do a lot of cool stuff that I wont use unless I plan on going postal some where. Combat arms is just that, Combat. No classes, no courses they claimed they had no time in the trainning schedule. So I had no time for them. Long story short. Your employer wont know about your discharge unless you tell them. Iv been out since 2002. And ive had no problems finding work. Grown man jobs too not rinky-dink 10.00hr jobs. Just use what you learned in the military, use little military words in interviews like, vehicle names you drove or operated, course youve taking, words like teamwork, detailed oriented, you get the point. And you should have no problem. My stress level is so low now compared to 3 years ago. Take charge of your life. And guess what... I still smoke weed. HAAAA HAAA.
HOOAHHH! TANKERS!!!!!

Oh yeah thanks Aaron good job. There is a section in my psycy that is cleared thanks to this website

John Kerry received an other than honorable discharge.

Well, I like this BLA BLA BLA WINE WINE WINE GUY! So this is for him. I was in the army in 1996. I was an MP and never in 2 years had a negative or general monthly counseling statement. I was solider of the month, quarter, and year. I had received recomendation for a ARCOM(Army commendation Medal) but because I was only an E-3 / PFC they shot it down to a Army achievement medal which is still awesome. I was transefered into traffic division and was on the SRT(SWAT) team. Excellent model solider. I was selected out of my unit that had 270 soliders in it to drive for the Col and be his Ast. Wow, and I was slotted for PLDC School so I could get my CPL and bypass SPC. All this in two years. I got married, found my wife snorting Coke, kicked her out, filed for divorce. She disappeared, 6 months later we had a change in command, my new Company commander came in, I wrote him a ticket 3 weeks prior for speeding, he confronts me and tells me, "your ass is mine now".. I go out friday night to the clubs, meet a girl who is smoking a cigarette, drinking beer, and wearing make-up. We go to a hotel, have sex. I find out she is 19, I am 19, and that she is an E-3 in the army. Then it comes out. She graduates in 5 days from my base. OH NO!!!! I tell my Battallion commander since we have grown close, and he says dont worry about it you didnt know. Another solider in my unit tells my Commander, and army o-3 cpt, stated above, and he gives me a Company Grade Article 15. The lowest available punishment. Leaves ur file in 6 months or when u leave ur unit. Then he tries to chapter me in Feb 1998. The BC Col. denise the chapter. The Co tries 8 more times to chapter me out, and the Col. Says NO!!!! In august our BC Col, and B Csm both retire. New replacements come in on aug 27th, and he hand walks the packet over. I am gone out of the service and off the base by august 28. Every recuirter and service member I have talked to said BS!!!! That commander abused his authority. I brought the IG's office and a congressman into it. My complaint of verbal physical and mental abuse by a Commision Officer, was found SUBTANSIATED!!! So what happened to him you want to know. A letter in file and a General OER. WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT!!! I stopped pushing after that. I had been wronged, hurt, and tainted. Yes I have found great jobs but my dream of police officer i felt was dead. NOW I AM FIGHTING BACK. Paperwork to change my discharge, RE-Code, and Reason for seperation are all being done by the military. A reserve recruiter got copies of my whole military file, spoke with 3 generals and 5 Col's about me all raving about how good a solider I was, and how much of an asshole my CO was. So my waiver for an RE-3 and General under honorable condition discharge has been submitted. It looks good for me. And now my local congressman just reviewed my military records and found favorable documents missing, as if someone omitted all my documents and records in my favor to make me look bad. Well now you can see how the military , NO an INDIVIDUAL fuked over such a great solider, and can see how easy it is. Anyone who doesnt believe me is welcome to see the documentation. But I will win in the end. I have my congressman, Col's, General's, and now recruiters all on my side helping me. If you have any questions or want help in upgrading email me at Vertigo1rg1@aol.com.

I am glad to help any that need it.

so it is true there is a second chance sailor program......some people had never even heard of this program why is it soo hush hush??

>so it is true there is a second chance sailor program

usually not for most drug type offenses or whatever, but lets say you got caught faking logs but they wanted to give you another try. its for that type of stuff.

sometimes people just get a raw deal. the people who get a raw deal probably usually get really fucked out of it and are not given a second chance. the harder you fight to prove the system is flawed the harder they will work to fuck you. people screwing you over will probably not be that big to the military unless they are subbordinate, E6 or below, or unless the problems are just too blatent to ignore or would cause great harm to the reputation of the military (like sexual stuff or racial discrimination)

to me the second chance sailor stuff is more for shitbags from what I have seen. people who did drugs or are legitimately getting screwed will probably just get rode out.

also there was a guy on my boat who got arrested for cocaine. the boat ended up finding out about it. he got stuck serving some time in restriction but he also got a lawyer who somehow got him out of it. he ended up going from the USS Dallas to the USS Pittsburgh.

the funny thing is that same kid gave me shit calling me a scumbag druggie when I got in trouble, and the same kid used to sell ecstasy (or beans as he called them) before he joined the Navy and he used drugs while he was in.

one of my buddies in restriction asked me what I was in there for and I told him drugs. one of the rare occassions where the word drugs brought me more respect. I teased him about that and he said "dude, could you imagine what a shitbag you would have to be to be in hear and not do drugs"

now I am not really trying to come off as a judgemental prick, after all, this thread really pushes the concept that nobody but yourself should judge what quality of a person that you are, but its that same frame of mind that many military members will have toward second chance sailors.

the second chance sailor stuff is not a good deal in my opinion for the following reasons:

• if you honestly fucked up enough to get in trouble that bad then you may not fit the military lifestyle
  
• people may or may not know what is wrong with you, but if they don't it gives them something to talk about. sometimes the rumoured ideas are far worse than what you did. in that reguard there is no such thing as a clean start in the military
  
• it puts you in a negative frame. even if the command says "we want to give this guy a clean start" it still holds the hidden message "even though he was a fuck up in the recent past"
  
• some people will try to hold it against you since they know if you do anything wrong it could be the end of your "career"
  
• some people might watch you closer, as if you are a poisoned seed and it is their job to weed you out. if people believe something hard enough they can make reality match what is in their mind, especially if their rank is higher than yours.

mu husband is in his last year with the USMC. he has 11 months left. he has been to iraq in 2003 and has good pros and cons overall. he is desperate to get out now, and is curious to see if he can smoke weed and intentionally pop on a drug test, if that will get him separated from the usmc. also, if he does get seperated what are the consequences? will he be sent to the brig? and will he recieve an other than honorable discharge? please help.

Hi Jessica
if they know he intentionally did it to get out quickly they will drag it on. it took them about 5-6 months to process me out.

well, he has started smoking it occasionally this past month, and also has a history of depression and PTSD since he returned from iraq. thank you for your help!

if he is depressed a few things that can help:
- you trying your best to have a good relationship w him
- him exercising and seeing sunlight
- him eating healthy and taking vitamins (I also take 5 HTP sometimes, but I will warn it is not for everyone)
- him doing things he likes when he can

the military is really a scummy organization. they don't mention anything like PTSD when you sign up, and then when they fuck you with it they move on to infecting another person with their propaganda

not listed on the papers of casualties are the facts that many souls / spirits (or your religious equivalent) die in the military. glad to have regained a bit of mine after I got out.

I can't say what is best for him. My success since I left is likely due to being hard headed and running into some luck.

Question? My son joined at 17 went to boot camp and turned 18 while there.Did GREAT at boot camp...squad leader...meritorous prom to PFC went to MCT was sailing right along loved it...got to school didnot class up for over 7 weeks.lost it went ua 5 days went back on his own said he wanted out wrote statement he "smoked" while ua.was kicked out of the school they said he would get admin sep. did not happen in the mean time DRUGS are rampent there on the base he gets "caught" or so they say in a sting operation NCIS threatens him tells him "you write a statement,work for us and we cut you loose" BIG LIE! he writes statement does a "wired buy" for them they bust the person(a cilvian)they want him to work on another he tells them no cut me loose and they do...however they charge him! before he is actually charged he is put on RILA he is on restriction for about 30 days when he is called in and told he is getting a general court martial by the way no at this point he is not even been told he can speak to a lawyer!they tell him to sign the charge sheets...he does not he calls home i tell him get your ass to legal right now before he can get there they come and ask him for the charge sheets he is told by the legal chief that the signatures are wrong! he gives them back because he is "following orders" oh and he is told he can not go to legal without the charge sheets...the next day he is sent to legal where he is asked by the LT.Com. "why should we defend you?""what can you do for us".He is given a lawyer who tells us he is under "orders" not to speak to us(his parents)from his LT Com even though our son has told him to speak to us.The lawyer puts in for SILT and is told by the prosocuter that the CO says "tell him his client is f-@#.(this will be important later)He is on Rila for 70+ days which his lawyer thinks it has only been 21 and tells our son to go get the records he does.end of the story they take him to to a special court martial (he was given a JG LT. for a lawyer can he even defend at a general court martial?)his laywer tells him to plead guilty to all charges write a statement they will cap his time at 10 mo. Prosocuter asks for max.he gets 7 months brig busted back loss 2\3 pay and a BCD now the lawyer finds out 10 min before trial that the SILT NEVER was even given to the CO and decides that they have the PTA so they will just "go forward" nice guy but it's not his life now is it...he all so tells our son that it's not that big a deal.I would say BE HONEST tell him that it does close some doors it is a Felony conviction and a BCD at age 18.By the way to all of you out there who will read this and think i blame the military i do not and neither does my son in fact he took full responsibility for his actions that day even though his command did not.Oh and now they are telling him he can join the army and then get back in the USMC how is that for horse shit?I heard that a special court martial w\BCD is automatic appeal is that true? Is there anything that can be done about the way the "military conducted themselves" namely the NCIS? He was told his RILA did not count for anything...why would that be? they had him on TOTAL restriction NO Privilages for 70+ days.They are sending 30+ marines to court martial No they are not babysitters but they are suppose to be leaders and commanders.The military recruite YOUNG men especially because they have no fear and they do not have life experience these qualities make them prime property however without guidence disapline they are dangerous I don't care who you are if you are over the age of 25 you are lying if you say you have not ever made a BAD CHOICE or a STUPID mistake no one walks on water.and if you are over the age of 25 you are probably not at your local recruiters office...To sit on the high tower and pass out felonies and BCD to a person age 18-22 is WRONG!Footnote:I grew up military a Col. flew in and testified on our sons behalf. it took the judge 15 min to dedide the punishment I think it was a done "deal" before it ever went to trial.His lawyer is not even wanting to discuss an appeal.Oh 1 last thing they are suppose to transfer him but they do not know how to do the paper work imagine that...Any advice? Besides "let it go"

>Any advice? Besides "let it go"

when I am pissed off I make sure many people see or hear my opinions. hence you wrote on this page. (step 1)

the other thing to do is become really successful and then write a book about how shitty the military is. (step 2 for me, still working on it)

Hi, I just found your site and I wanted to share my OTH story. I was in the Army and went through basic ok and ended up going AWOL during AIT. I had failed my first AIT and was transfered to another MOS and my depression grew and grew until the point where I was either going to off myself or leave. I decided to leave. I'm 29 now and this happened two years ago. I'm still more or less tramautized by my time in the Army and I don't know how to deal with this anymore. I'm trying to find a good job but i'm afraid of background checks turning up my OTH. This sucks because I'm college educated and a smart/nice guy but my mistake of joining the Army is really hurting me. Any advice for a guy in my situation?

>Any advice for a guy in my situation?

Rule #1: they don't check your background

Most jobs do not check your background (for a short period of time I became a middle level manager for a large corporation. Had I not told them I was quiting I would have been in charge of Rhode Island and some operations in nearby states within 8 months of being hired. This with over 50 empoyees under me).

Rule #2: They don't check your background

I was offered the job listed on this page.

Rule #3: They don't check your background

My job that I had as a middle level manager was lined up by military recruiting specialists.

Rule #4: They don't check your background

I almost went to work for Wal Mart before getting that middle level manager position. Was fully hired on and awaiting to start in about 2 days, but that other much better job came through.

Rule #5: They don't even ask how you got out

they don't ask specifics about why you got out and are not suspecting of anything. after all. you were a sailor / soldier / blah blah blah. they get fed that same bullshit we were fed when we joined. they probably did not join and thus have respect for your sacrifices. they will not question them deeply unless you give them reasons to or ask them to do.

if they ask why you got out "I felt it was time to move on. It wasn't really what I was expecting."

Rule #6 You do not even have to lie

"I felt it was time to move on. It wasn't really what I was expecting." - when you go UA or say fuck it and do drugs this is what you are really saying anyway. they don't need to know some parts of your story unless you want to carry them on with you. if you want to carry them on, then of course thats on you and your shaddow will always follow you.

aaron, do you recommend that I put my military experience on my resume?

I probably would.

Hey ,
I have a question. My boyfriend is a Marine and has been for two years but he's not going to reserve drill like he is scheduled to. How long will the military put up with it until they give him a discharge or punish him in some way?

Can anyone confirm discharge status is *NOT* revealed in a routine background check by prospective employers?

Everyone,

I am a single mother in the military. Approximately two months ago, I went to mast for fraternization. My punishment was reduction in rate, restriction, and a fine. However, recently, my son was forced to reside with me because his caregiver was not able to continue providing him with care. I was not prepared financially for the transition, and so many things have transpired since my son's transition. I am not able to stand duty because I refuse to have a nanny come to my home to care for my son, which is an expense I cannot afford in addition to day care fees. Therefore, I was told that if I leave during duty days I will be reported as UA and then I will be sent to mast. I was also told by one of my superiors that if I go to mast again, they will put me on restriction and I would have to find a place for my son.

I am an E-3 in the military,with a bachelors degree and a impending Master's degree--completed by March 2006, and I am living in a one-bedroom with my son. Prior to joining the military, I worked at a corporation and a law firm in the accounting field. Also, my references at these organizations are still impeccable. In addition,I was on shore duty for two years and I still maintain good references with 0-3 and 0-4's The military does not motivate me and I anticipate dread everyday before I come to work. I have more education then half of these officers and I am in a state of depression right now because so many things are occurring in my life.

Question 1: I know I will receive an OTH but how would that really affect me professionally?

Question 2: Can they put a single mother on restriction? ( I am pretty sure they cannot and they are just using that to put fear in me.)

Question 2: Would prospective employers be able to retrieve my military discharge type?

Theresa Brown, please check out the info in this link:

http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs16-bck.htm#2

It's for Californina but since it's federal laws, i think it would apply to all states.

Aaron or anyone with military knowledge about general discharges......Can you answer some questions I have ? It would be greatly appreciated. Please email me back... jessienhaley@aol.com

Thanks J

I hope you guys know that it is against the law for an employer to even ask what type of discharge you got. But they will usually try a way to get it from you if they see you were discharged earlier than usual.

I am very positive that the type of discharge anyone gets is not of public record so can't be obtain through a background check. The dates of entry and discharge are of public records, but I believe the discharge is not. If I find anything on the internet backing my claim up, I will post a link.

I too have an OTH, from the Army. Being an IET soldier for 8 months drove me borderline crazy. I didn't enlist to be treated like shit for 8 months. I would rather be in prison for 8 months then the damn army, seriously. I went AWOL and it was the best decision of my life.

how many drug poppers in here got brig, or stockade time for poping on a pee test?

Consider the military what it is: A toy. A joke.
And move on......are you crazy!..i can,t believe you wrote this....it may be a JOKE TO YOU..but i loved the NAVY and the military way of life...its people like you that make this world like it is...i would,nt waste the 45cents it would take to put a bullet in your head.there are still some of us out there that really would give our life,s for the protection of our brothers and their family,s....and i am one of them.

better remember now days what your really fighting for.

I meant to quote that last paraghraph

Okay guys...I need some help. I just got caught up in an undercover NCIS OP, where this A$$ got in trouble...so he started seting other people up. He set-up my ex-boyfriend...but here was the flaw, he was at work so he sent me to pick up the "stuff" instead. The "stuff" they gave me was fake...so they charged me with "attemping to posses" the guy who set the whole thing up was paying for it so there was no exchange of money. They tried to get me to set-up other people but I refussed so they OTHed me and now in TPU Norfolk. Has anyone found a way to beat this crap?

Wow. So this shit is still going on. I was one of the first to get pissed out on an OTH in 1983 from the USMC. Like many of you, I had about 6 months left. Back then it took 3 positive piss tests and drug rehab before they would put you out.

I went through the naval board of appeals and they denied me, however, after I completed a drug rehab sucessfully, and stayed clean, the reserves were willing to take me back. I had two small daughters by then and turned the offer down. I can see it now, I have 2 collage degrees, in my 30's, taking orders from some kid. Yeah right. But hey, remember the old saying, "once a marine, always a marine"... I earned it by God, and I couldn't care less what anyone says. I AM A MARINE. So Semper Fi Mo Fo's, and I'll rock today with the best of em'

If any marine out there is reading this, and you need an expert rifleman, who ain't afraid to scrap with those folks "over there".... drop me a line. Forget about the OTH, and smokeing dope 20 years ago, if you need a serious man to fight. The kids are grown now.

Doug, that post is bizarre and killing people is disgusting.

How old are you?

Aaron,

Hey man. The site is awesome. I am in the Marines and I'm pretty sure I just popped on a piss test for weed. I have a pretty crappy mental background including PTSD and MDD. Do you think if i were to use these as a kind of "reason" for smoking I might be able to get maybe a general or possibly admin sep. I hope you can help. Thanks man. And thanks for the site.
-justin

I think after you used drugs they will want to screw you and anything you use as an excuse will make you that much worse of a Marine. your best bet of course is to get a bit of time to talk to a lawyer outside the military without the military knowing about it.

Chances are I'm going to pop on this drug test we just had. My whole platoon is under investigation pretty much and I know more than half could pop on this piss test. Is there a small chance if they see how many people fail if they will sweep it under the rug? The Marine Corps is hurting right now, especially in my unit. With that said, I just came back from Iraq a couple of months ago and I'm set up for a medical board in a few weeks. Anyways, if I do fail the drug test I'm going to deny everything.

I was a background investigator for a large financial firm for about a year. Basically, we just check what applicants claim. We do a local (County Court) criminal record search (unless the applicant revealed an offence, then we search the state records and sometimes run an FBI record check), call their school, if any, to verify that they really have that certificate or degree, and call their last 3 employers to see if they really worked there.

If you don't put down 'military service', nobody checks. You could even mention the discharge to HR, if they don't note it (why would they? You get background investigated after they hire you for most positions, btw) on the application, we wouldn't bother.

Zero Tolerance is Zero Intelligence - even General Patton threw kids in the brig or KP duty for a fews days, he didn't discharge them when they were drunk and disorderly in base or picked up by the MPs in town. He knew 'boys would be boys'. He winked at a certain level of it, but.

And by the way - Abu Ghraib - rural West Virginian 18-year old privates don't think of complicated and culturally humiliating ways to make Arabs unconfortable (not sure it's torture, more like hazing) by exposing their genitals to women and making them walk around naked. Somebody with a college education - or intelligence training - had showed those privates how to do that stuff. I don't think the deployment pamphlet "What to know about the MidEast" had a section entitled 'Ways to humiliate Arabs most', either.

for all of you asking questions about weather or not you will have a problem finding work with an OTH the answer is NO, Unless you list it on your application, and even then the chances of you being asked for your dd214 are slim to none becuase 99% of employers are clueless when it comes to military documents or quite frankly they just dont care. I have worked as a corrections officer and am currentley employed as a director of security for a private firm. I have had extensive background checks done on me and not once has my military service ever been an issue. The military is not for everyone, If you truly believe you have given your best effort and the military lifestyle just isnt panning out for you then by all means get out and get a real job!!!

amen

I did 4 years in the Marines and got and Honorable Discharge in 2004. I also have the GI Bill. I currently joined the Army 2 months ago and fucking hate it. I want out and want to know the best way to do it. With having my Honorable Discharge from the Marines would this help me out say if I were to go AWOL for more than 30 days and turning myself in. And will I get the GI Bill still cause I paid for it and got it while I was in the Marines. What's the best way for me to get out and what discharge would I get? Plus the GI Bill.

Hi Jason
I would not expect to find the best information for that possible over the web for free on some random site. your best bet it to talk to someone like objector.org / helping out and / or seek council.

some jobs will ask for your DD214 to verify where and what you have been doing for the past few years. One example would be truck driving. If you tell the company that your discharge papers are on file in some distant courthouse and it will take some time to retrieve the documents. They will most likely take your word for it. I spent 3 years on active duty in the Marine corps before I got hurt in the line of duty. If you get hurt in the Marine corps and you are an infantryman. You get harrased nonstop untill you are ready to take a baseball bat to everyone in the platoon. My injury was rather significant and required surgery. The navy doctor put me on a 1 year limited duty board. Throughout that entire year I was told I was a faker, limpdick, derilicter,you name it. The funny thing is my pro and con scores leading up to the injury were imaculate showing that I was an outstanding marine. As soon as I was hurt they reflected that I was an un-motivated, lazy marine. I was due for promotion but my record was stamped ELIGIBLE BUT NOT RECOMENDED FOR PROMOTION. I saw freinds that were boot to me and half as motivated being promoted beyond me. At that point I had enough. I wanted to talk to the doc about a possible medical discharge given the extent of my injury. But since I had transfered to a new unit I could not see a doc because The ortho department at the navel hospital was backlogged 3 months. At that point I cut my losses and split. I spent 63 days on the run before being apprehended. I did 6 months in the brig at lejuene(Millitary confinment is a joke) and when released I went on appelate leave untill the suits in washington hashed out my appeal. Even on appelate leave from the millitary I was able to find a job. That was 10 years ago. given the treatment I recieved while on active duty. I would go UA again if given the oppurtunity. It was the best decision I have ever made to leave that chicken shit outfit behind. I dont get medical care for the injury.The government says private employers are responsible for those they injure with workmans comp. But they dont hold themselves to there own rules.(Of course) 10 years out I am doing great. I own 2 over the road trucks and have my own 4 state authority. I would hire any ex-millitary person who excercised his own solution for getting out. Regardless of the outcome. There are employers out there who dont care even if you mention it. But most dont care as long as they dont know about it.

I forgot to mention in the post above about a certain SSG Wade. The reason I went UA in the first place. After my surgery I was given 13 days on convelescence leave to recouperate. Wade dident think I rated it so he stuck me on runner duty for the duration of the leave and since I was officially on leave. I had to pay for my own meals. But what led up to my decision to go UA was when I transfered to 3/6. Since the notations followed me from my previous unit that I was un-motivated and with low pros and cons and the unit was leaving for cax. I was assigned fire watch 4 hours on 4 hours off in there absence and untill my medical board expired. That would have been 4 months of 4 on 4 off. I lasted through 3 weeks of that before I went UA. I was brain washed from boot camp to never get my superiors in trouble and to not be an alligater. If I could go back now. I would squeel like a friggin pig. Why should you watch there backs when they could give a rats ass about you.

Joe, did you turn yourself in or did you get caught? What kind of discharge did you get? Also did you have to go back to your unit when you were apprehended or did they take you to the nearest one?

Hi Jason.. I was apprehended. They use local law enforcment to get you. Since you are a Marine they know what you are trained for and capable of. So they come get you with about 30 other officers with guns in your face. I got a BCD but that dosent mean that you would. UA under 30 days would net you batallian office hours or a summery court martial. Over 30 days will get you a special court martial and they would offer a good of the service discharge before trial.That is an OTH. I myself was a dumbass at that time. I had a freind that went awol from the army and he got an honerable discharge for claiming to be an alchoholic and they treated it as an ilness. I tried that same deffence and the corps treated me even more horrible for that. They sent me packing with a BCD. I have never tried to upgrade because I could really care less. My life is great. I am afraid if I tried that some pimplefaced officer on the board would make a snide remark like when I was in. Today I am a civillian and no longer brain washed. I would jerk him across the table and beat the living shit out of him. So I dont want to go. Back to your question. They have cross country chasers that will come get you at your local jail. You would then be taken back to your unit. you will probably be taken to the brig by your units chasers. Your first seargent has cuffs. The brig isent that bad. Its kind of relaxing compared to your unit.

I am currently trying to get my DD-214 amended. I was discharged with an Entry-Level Separation, RE-4, Narrative Reason for Separation "ALcohol Abuse." Essentially, I was in boot camp and decided I wanted out. I said I was depressed, then suicidal, and I had a problem drinking before coming in. I think they were leniant with regard to the Narrative Reason for Sep. Anyway, 5 years later and I am in the process of getting the DD-214 changed. I have done alot for myself since: graduated with honors from college with my B.S., taking grad classes, volunteer work, held employment, stayed outa trouble, etc. I think I have a good chance to get my RE code changed. I want to go in as an officer now that I have my degree. And I WILL KICK SOME FUCKIN ASS IN THERE, dont get me wrong. Every day that goes by I think about my ELS five years ago and am embarrased. I do not tell anyone and have to live with it. Unlike most of you I am ashamed of my stint in boot camp. I dont even tell employers. I am in one hiring process right now and did not disclose my ELS. I dont think they have any system where they can readily check for military records. I believe they would have to write the Archives in St Lois, right? They need the branch, dates of service and shit like that. Well, my ELS is not a dishonorable and as far as I am concerned they have no business knowing, and if they find out and dont hire me, well I'll know next time to just suck up the embarrasment and explain the stint. We'll see if there is a system they can check. Actually I fear they will pull my employment records from IRS, because there will be my W-2 from the military. But, my wanting the records change is so that I have the option of joining again, which I want more than anything. I want to be commisioned and have a respectable career. I know I have fucked up in my past but today I am a stellar person. I AM GOING TO KICK SOME FUCKIN ASS IN LIFE. That is how I feel. I also feel confident that the Board will amend my record so I can get on with my life.
I'll let all you peeps know how it turned out with the job, if I got it and stuff. And it isnt a lawn mowing job either. haha. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they dont check my employment records.

The Marine Corps is just a fucked up place period.

DO I GET MY GI BILL IF I GOT IT WHILE I WAS IN THE MARINES AND GOT AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE. CAUSE I'M IN THE ARMY NOW AND WANT OUT AND WOULD PROBABLY GET AN OTH FOR GOING AWOL OVER 30 DAYS. I'M WONDERING IF MY HONORABLE DISCHARGE FROM THE MARINES AND WILL I STILL GET MY GI BILL I ALREADY HAVE WITH AN OTH?

Jason, you should still be elligible for tthe GI Bill because you did receive a honorable discharge. Any discharge after that will not affect that. I'll tell you this much... if you go awol, make sure it's over 30 days and do what i did... turn yourself in at Ft. Bragg Oklahoma. That's where they do the processing and you'll be out in two weeks or less. I was out in 5 days. If you're in a unit already, your mileage may vary. Good luck.

The question is Jason...How much is your GI Bill worth? If you were with the Marines for only a short time you may not be eligible for all of it, if any, despite an honorable discharge. Call veterans affairs and ask them if your previous service qualifys for the GI Bill. Think before you get desperate and go AWOL. College is a nice place to be but don't screw up with your discharge from the Army. Getting a OTH doesn't necessarily look good on your record...your better off telling them your gay and getting an Honorable, Or doing something else besides going AWOL. Think about it for Gods sake. If I were in your shoes I would get it over with and after an Honorable discharge then go to college. After college get a contractor job or a fed job that pays $100,000. Good things come to those who wait, something I have recently learned in my own life. That same philosophy goes for finding a chick too. haha
Good Luck to you all.

i was discharged with on oth from thw marines but want to reenlist am i able to?

Sorry, I made a mistake. Go to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, not Ft. Bragg. That's in North Carolina. :P

I got an OTH in Sept. 95. 3 Captain's Masts in the Navy... 2 for fartin around.. 1 that was deserved. I was given the option during the 3rd C-mast to either receive punishment and stay in the Navy.. or get an OTH, and be lowered paygrade. The choice was easy for a freewheeling 19 year-old. GET OUT!!

I kind of regret getting the OTH.. but if I had stayed in, I'm sure I would have never gone to college, much less graduated from a 4 year university w/ honors (FSU).

To this day I would prefer the Honorable Discharge, but I can honestly say your DD214 WILL NEVER AFFECT YOU. Contrary to Army commercials, the real biz world doesn't like post military personnel. To them, a military background means a variety of things.. mostly that you graduated in the bottom of your class (if you graduated at all), or you have or had problems that required military structure. And they surely don't want to have to tell you what to do on your new job. They want people that can think on their own and can perform their job w/out having to be told what to do and how to do it.

To answer a previous post. YES YOU WILL LOSE YOUR GI BILL! Even if you paid for it, you lose it. I fought this and lost.

In closing.. If you get an OTH, yes it will stick in the back of your mind. Every national holiday (flag day, memorial day weekend, etc..) will bring back regret. But don't let it eat at you. It's not worth it.

Kevin,

I'm almost positive that the guy who posted about the GI Bill is still elligible. He has an honorable from the marines already, any discharge after this wont or shouldn't affect that.

>I'm almost positive that the guy who posted about the GI Bill is still elligible. He has an honorable from the marines already, any discharge after this wont or shouldn't affect that.

I think a bit of research needs to be done on that. Like a bad conduct discharge (which is not very common) can wipe away earlier benefits. A friend got an OTH and I believe he still got his GI benefits locked in.

If someone has researched this please do post, but we don't want to be posting a bunch of speculative I think stuff too much as we want to have a sense of certainty if possible and that issue is widespread enough that it should be easy to find the answer to.
cheers
aaron

those of you who remeber me, after poping for pot and getting recomended for a special court marshall.
its been pleaed all the way down to just an NJP, and ill get reduced one rank, mabey some resrtiction, and loss of pay. and an OTH.

i had to wave my rights to a adminastation seps board, to get the njp but hey its better than going to the brig, and loseing all pay.

im so ready to get out. all the marine corps did is made me a bitter, lonely man with no sence of myself. now that im getting out soon theres been no stressfull days at work!, i dont stay up all night tossing and turning worrieing about the next day. and ive started to come out of my shell.

i cant believe im saying this but after over six years, im finnaly happy again....

thats just so sad.

Your an idiot Aaron Wall, you were a shitbag that couldn't conform. Congratulations. Don't use the term shipmate, you are undeserving.

>Your an idiot Aaron Wall, you were a shitbag that couldn't conform. Congratulations.

if anyone forgets what people in the navy are like, this person is a perfect example. fake email and fake name and big bad words. bunch of pathetic assholes really. Tron just reminded me. Congratulations!

>Don't use the term shipmate, you are undeserving.

the word shipmate was used as a negative far more often than as a positive, if memory serves...shipmate.

i was a member of the u.s. army i did my basic at ft. benning ga, and my air borne trainig. after i was sent to ft. bragg. after all my training i started having second thoughts. i knew why i joined infantry but the cause was wrong "oil" my own drill sgt had given me adivce on how to get out so i took. on christmas exodus of 2003 i was on leave for 2 weeks but i diddnt go back when it was time. so during my awol i was in contact with my drill sgt. they told me awol for more than 31 days to become seperated from your current unit, thats when warrants are issued for your arrest,so i packed my clothe and nessecitty and I turned my self in to my nearest branch base, in my case ft.irwin out in barsto, i was there for about 5 days befor they paid for my flight to ft.seal oklahoma, while at ft. seal they ran a check on me for tickets and any arrests that may of had during the time of my awol, note: you have to stay clean while on awol, no drugs, tickets, arrests,misdominors. if anything shows up your going to the brig. well i was clean,while at ft. seal your put in the pcf unit. you fill out papper work go infront of a judge and your out, the best thing is you get to keep your benifits for 3 months after seperation, i recieved a oth but now im appealing for an entry level seperation and ill get it, if you have less 180 days in the army you can request an entry level seperation witch will upgrade to honarable in six month, it happen to me. no i work with fedral law enforcement and hangout here in beautiful san diego california life is great after the millitary, good luck to those who want out pfc. j martin

Hey j. martin, how did you get a job with federal law enforcement? I was interested in joing the police force or something law related but with my oth from the army, i'm not sure it'll fly. By the way, it's Ft. Sill, OK and it's too bad you didn't go straight there as you'd have been out in a week or less. :)

I got an OTH 9 years ago. I am doing fine financially, and the OTH has never stopped me from getting a job. I am considering going from the technology field to education. Does anybody know how extensive that background check can be? And on a background check, what does the OTH look like? Is it specific to the offense or just OTH?

I have been reading the comments from all my shipmates with OTH's and I just want to add that I too popped on marijuana. Not just once but 4 times. The first two times I was given 45-45 250 for two. The third time I was sent to NDRC in Mirimar at Fighter Weapons School, (TOP GUN). After leaving there I popped positve on the first command directed P test and was given an OTH. The military/Navy really fucked up my records and my DD 214 doesn't list my awards or the two WesPacs I made. My ESWOS was left off and all the schools I attended after I got to the fleet. All they have on there is that I went to OS A school. Although I am given credit for damn near three years of sea service. Go figure huh? Any way i thought my life would be fucked up after I got out and it was but not because I received an OTH. My life was fucked up because I believed I was what they labeled me... a fuck up. I was promoted 4 times in three years, how is that possible while being a fuck up? My life continued on a downward spiral with drugs. I started smoking opium soaked refer in the PI. In the jungle in Olongapo. When I got out I started smoking crack at Treasure Island in San Fransisco. 3 years after I got out I was in prison for dealing in stolen property. When I got out I was close to suicide. Thrown out of the Navy, a prison record for life, what was I gonna do? I stopped fucking up. I forgave myself for youthful follies and bad decisions and stopped dwelling on the fact I had two strikes against me. I went to truck driving school and got my class a cdl's and now make nearly a grand a week on a four day schedule. Not working right now because of complications with diabeties. My wife told me I should apply for disability so I did and when I went to see the Dr. he asked if I was depressed. I told him I was because of the Marines that got killed Oct 23 1983 and that I was on active duty when it happened. i told him i was an ex drug addict and that I had been sent to prison. They approved my case and now I get a check from the government every month just like I did when I was in. I live in a 4 bdrm house with my third wife and our 5 kids. She had four when I met her. So I say all that to say this. Life is not written for you. You have to decide to stop doing whatever it was that got you kicked out and do the right thing. I'm not trying to preach but it's really up tp you what happens in your life. I wear my Navy hat everyday and people just assume I am an honorably discharged veteran and I now carry myself in a way that I don't have to defend. I bought all my medals and display them eventhough I don't have the paper work to back them up. I fucking earned them! I'll leave you with this... When you stop fucking up you can come up. Fair winds and following seas shipmates. PTYOFCR2@aol.com

This is for you Aron, I owe you a debt of grattitude for this sight. I have kept these feelings inside for over twenty years. I am a vet and am proud of the service I gave this country. It has been uplifting to know I am not alone. That there are so many others lets me know I am not an undesirable. I'm not so fucking strange or wierd for having smoked pot while in uniform. I appreciate you man for this web sight.
PTYOFCR2@aol.com

HELLO, I'VE RECENTLY POSTED STUFF ABOUT BEING ABLE TO KEEP MY GI BILL FROM WHERE I GOT FROM THE MARINES WHERE I WAS HONORABLY DISCHARGED. NOW I'M IN THE ARMY AND HAVE BEEN IN 2 MONTHS AND I'M READY TO GO AWOL. I CAN'T TAKE IT NO MORE AND WILL DO SOMETHING SOON ESPECIALLY TO MY 1SG WHOM IS A PIECE OF SHIT!! IS IT THE SAFEST ROUTE TO STAY AWOL OVER 30 DAYS THEN TURN YOURSELF IN TO FORT SILL. WILL THE SAME OUT PROCESS ROUTINE HAPPEN TO ME EVEN THOUGH I'M PRIOR SERVICE MARINES WITH HONORABLE AND NOW I'M IN THE ARMY AS AN E5, BUT HAVE ONLY BEEN IN 2 MONTHS. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME. THANK YOU.

Jason the best advice I can give is call GI rights they can tell you how long you need to be awol and where to turn yourself in. Trust me there a big help. Good Luck.

I just recently received a OTH for misconduct. Will this show up on a back ground check?

To make a very long story as short as possible...
Explotion in M1A1 tank resulting in Vaporizing FRH fluid and drainage within tank; with me being trapped in the drivers compartment, inhailing and bathing in FRH! 10 min later i was able to escape through the hatch, once main gun was traversed. (Tank was near enbankment when it happened, couldnt move main gun to let me out.) 4Hrs later, after my platoon commander and CO arrive to the base camp. They hear what happened to us and order us to be taken to the training center to get showers and taken to the hospital. At this point i dont remember a whole lot, very little, until later on. (at hospital) Im awaken by doctors and nurses, they say we are ok, but have been unconcious for 2hrs or so.. continued to tell us they researched the fluid and gave us diagnosis that its possible we could have internal organ damage signs between 3-10yrs from time of inncodent... Moreover, 1.5 yrs later or so.. I am stationed at a new unit with the same Navy Corpsman from my old unit. Over time i have started to experiance health problems, such as blackouts, loss of motor control, dizzyness, complete loss of equalibrium balance. I report to Medic at my unit, looks up my medical records, low and behold NOTHING was reported and/or documented of the accident! Medic said he would look into it. I told him he better, it must be doccumented in case of future health problems etc. 2 months go by.. I ask him whats going on, he simply says "OH ya! dont worry, the stuff is harmless, it wont hurt you..." I told him, "But i still want it documented,.. he persisted that it didnt have to be... Later, continued to evaide me an ignore my requests. At this time I had enough and went AWOL due to feeling backstabbed and not trusting of the military. 3mo go by.. I get contacted by my Master Sgt. He thinks im on drugs. My mother is called by a Gunny Sgt that hates me and tells her im AWOL and extreemely suicidal (So what, isnt every Marine?) and going to kill myself. Mother panics etc... I tell her whole story.. Then she says, Gunny "fukface" said you would tell me that, he says your a lier! At this point things got very fukn weird.. I stay AWOL. Receive notices in mail that I get busted way down to pvt. I dont care! 3 more mo. go by.. Im at home on my lunch break (upstairs from work, same building) Knock at door.. THere are 5 Marines standing there.. The Gunny, Master Sgt, a Major, a Staff Sgt, and a sgt.. I was like.. Oh shit! They wanted to talk.. I told them to go to the parking lot out back. Meet them there, Master Sgt persisted that I come back to the unit and finish out my term (1yr left). I said no fkn way, explained my cercumstances about my health one last time, told them the Marines DONT want me right now, Im suicidal.. HAHA! Major was a new guy, heard about me, tried to talk me into coming back.. Said i was high speed blah blah, Marines cannot afford to lose a guy like me... Or go back to active duty.. Told him i tried that and got no respect, fk it! Anyways, the Gunny that hates me (ADMIN FUCKER) persistes that i sign some paperwork to turn in my 782 gear.. So i do no problem and gave him my gear that was packed in my trunk, which was oddly rdy to be delivered back to the unit that very coming weekend.

To this day, I do not know what kind of discharge I received, nothing.. I have stayed quiet for yrs waiting for my friends to get out, so they can help me with this and not hurt themselves by associating with me etc(They are officers and HomeLand security officers.)

What should I do? Who should i talk to? Im ready to get even! Mother fukers! My health is degenerating faster each year.. Dont have money for testing yet, but I think i got nerological damage from the accident or something. Not to mention my neck still hasnt healed right, its all messed up!

Any advise out there??

No drugs
No military offences what so ever
Extensive honerable record and achievments
Grade A Marine, up to this point

Former - 100% kick ass, rock hard - Crpl - Longo

this is for the a-ghost? when joining a police or fedral agency its not that hard. if you have an oth theres hope. depending on the reason or code # on the oth many agency can put in waivers to there superiors, that includes the police department. i would suggest go to your nearest police academy and talk to a recruiter they help you obtain waviers especially if you go through the academy and top out as one of best then you should have many strings pulled, i have buddy from the marines that got oth's now there at the police academy in chula vista ca. i hope i answered your questioned

also for jason the e-5, its going to be harder for you exit the millitary since your not an e-4 or lower. also you could be elgible for an entry level seperation, witch means if you have less than 180 days active duty you can get out on an oth, but the way you would do it, is awol for more than 32 days then turn yourself in to your local army base thel send you to fort sill, if not, just fly yourself, they have a section in the airport for awols and other returning soldier. once there you go throught the process and fill out papper work. it takes 7 days to go and get out. remember you have to awol for more than 31 days inorder to be drop from your unit, also you might have some problems because of your rank, but the sgt there are real cool. just call ft.sill request the PCF unit they answer all your questions honestly.

I HAVE TO GET OUT DUE TO FAMILY PROBLEMS. I'VE TRIED THE HARDSHIP AND GOING UP THROUGH MY CHAIN OF COMMAND. THEY DON'T CARE. I'M TALK TO JAG ON MONDAY TO SEE WHAT THE LEGAL OR BEST WAY TO GET OUT IS. I'M ALSO LOOKING INTO THE TATTOO ON THE HAND. BUT IF YOU CALL THE PCF UNIT IN FORT SILL THEY'LL TELL YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

WOW I was so happy to see this page, I was given a OTH from the Navy in 1998 for UA. I even spent 2 weeks at Miramar Brig, only as a Detaniee not a prisoner, I even got to work on the base away from the brig. This was the only negative thing in my service record, had many many positives, and accomedations made on my record, that was one thing the JAG officer told me was "good" for me. My discharge was in lieu of Court Marital, so no felony record. I had a bunch of family issues, mother was sick, father out of the country for work, and wife recovering from a Tubal Pregnancy. At any rate I am here to let anyone know that, even though I enjoyed my service I have gotten over my past and went on. I got a job 5 days after being discharged. I have been fine job wise since...unitl know..laid off...I went to school for Ultrasound Technologist, and now I am going to follow my lifelong dream to be a pilot. And I haven't ran into any issues, even with the FAA for my licence. I was accepted to a school, and should graduate in June 2006. I was a little scared about the FAA, but I learned that they pretty much like all my employeers could care less. It isn't the proudest moment in my life, but it also didn't screw anything up for me either. Of course the last medical group I worked for went out of business in May, now I am out of work. I have tried to apply for jobs with airlines, such as ground crew. But haven't had much luck....and I started to think that maybe it was from the OTH, if they and the Department of Homeland Security checks they do????? But I wasn't a security threat?!?! Well I was contacted by a airline for a possible job in AZ, so we will see what happens................Sorry for the length, but if you are out with the OTH, at least from my experiance most jobs don't care..maybe with the Drugs, Drinking they might..or for misconduct to a senior officer. Well thanks for letting me share my experiance, if anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me..thanks!!

I love the marine corps... but I also love smoking marijuanna. This isnt the first time by any means I almost got busted a few weeks ago. Should I seek help for my substance problem... or should I say fuck it and continue puffing along the rest of my enlistment?

Know a few people who were in the same boat as you Johhny. Some got away with it, some did not. It is up to you as to what risks you want to take and what you value more. If you like the military then go with that, but if you consider other things more important than persue what you really want to do.

Ultimately most advice you get off a random web page may not be the best and I don't know what decision is the best for you to take when you sound absolutely unsure what you want.

So I'm coming up on 180 days of being UA from the Marines and I was wondering if anyone has recently been through this process. Just so I can prepare myself for what I'm going to go through. Any help or storys whould be appreciated. Thx.
Great site Aaron.

are you still eligible for the va home loan if you are rewarded an "OTH"?

also, do you retain any medical benefits after you have been discharged with an "OTH"? if so, for how long?

I believe the military is full of crap. The system is based on fear and deception. I am a commissioned officer and I feel that I have to wear the uniform of this disgraceful system. For all of the enlist members who wants out, I salute to you. You guys have given your best and figure that the life is not for you. Thank you for serving, at least you tried, the Mcdonald's kid did not. I hate being in the Army and wish to resign asap.
I talked to a legal assistance for JAG(NCO). He told me that a OTH is nothing. It is not in official records nor is a crime. If you guys have any questions, I can help. I am in the Army (prior enlisted and now an officer with over 10 years) Anything to help Joe

i will add my story if or when i am discharged with my "OTH". should be coming up soon. i signed some papers for it already and now i am just waiting to go through the procedure. thanks for the great site. good stuff.

To the person that responded to my post about police work.

The reason for my OTH is that I went awol during AIT. I'm struggling to find myself and where I fit in due to depression but i'm trying to work on getting better. I did like the Army and I think the police force would be a better fit for me rather than the deplorable conditions of the Army. I'm a good person, hard working and I hate to have my life messed up by my OTH. Do you think a police recruiter would be sympathetic to my situation?

the one... I think that depends how long you were in for and if you reenlisted yet

Joe...hehehe great post. you rock

anon ghost: if deplorable conditions bother you how will you feel arresting a homeless person that is almost dead from abusing crack for a decade? how will seeing the deplorable conditions under which people live in jail effect you? how will you feel knowing that doing your job sends tons of people to jail (did you know 1 in 138 us citizens is in jail...how screwed up is that)

i was prviously in for 4yrs. discharged honorably, end of contract. then re-enlisted almost two years later. have been back in for over a year and a half and now i have popped on a piss test. will i be able to use the va home loan with my "oth"? will i retain any medical benefits after i am discharged? my wife i pregnant. baby is due in oct.

i am in the same boat along with the most of u. i failed my whizz quiz back in feb'05 for thc. the funny thing is is that i knew that i had failed when i took the quiz. i was going through a lot of financial bullshit while here in the corps and i had some times when i would just let go of everything and try to escape, such as some of you. i have been in for 3 and a half years now and i can honestly say that it was the biggest mistake that i have made in my adult life. not because i should be "chesty puller" or anything but because i have a two boys that look up to dad and i have failed as a father and a provider for my family. as most of you know, when you are processed, you recieve that wonderful "five day letter". well, i got mine last thursday; its now sunday. for those who understand what i am about to say, thank you for comprehending it. i dont feel bad for what i did, but i regret the changes that i have put myself through, as well as my family. i have to make amends with myself and be strong and move on. but i have one question and i have not got a solid answer yet. i refuse to be in the corps again, but can you re-enlist? please someone give me a solid answer. i am taking full resposibilty for my actions but i dont need some motivated ass to try to make himself or herself feel better by beating someone down more than what they all ready are. thanx.

Do you guys know if it is easy to got discharge for an officer. I hate my career. I do not like what the US government stands for. I found out that once you make the ranks your contract is indefinite. It sounds like mandatory jail time, totally against your will. I want to resign. Please help.

thanks for your views aaron. i'm just struggling to find a place for me in this life. :(

jj,

Oddly enough, my brother is a Captain in the Army. I'll see what he says and post back.

i have been looking for help for 7 yrs now i am glad to find you .back in 1998 i joined the army ,9 months into my contract i went awol i was on the run for 5 years before i turned my self in . i received a oth with a re-code 4. how can i get back in the army with a re-4.most recruiters wont even bother talking with me when i mention my re-4 .

All of you guys who still want to be in the service after your mistreatment from the services are DUMB. You are out already. Get a real job with a real salary. Why try to reenter an institution that treats you like a sub human with no rights? Cherish that you are a human being again. There are many service members in Iraq and elsewhere who wish they were in your shoes. They did not have the opportunity to get discharge yet. Listen, you get out already, you are really lucky. You are not force to fight for oil

Listen up guys,
I have been in the service (AD and reserve) for more than 11 years. I am working on my discharge. I want to let you know that you guys are out already. I am wishing to get discharge. You guys want to reenter jail(service dept) while I demand to be released. This is so ironic. The Army and government lies a lot. After I signed my life away is when I realize my recruiter lie to me about my terms in service and training. In the Reserves they say that you are todeployed to a maximun of 6 months(yeah right)ask the Reserves and National Guard now in Iraq( about over one year and one half)Some of them get redeployed. The highest suicide and divorce rate in the Nation is the Army. Ironically, the Army praise on moral and commitment to family member needs, discriminate you if you are gay and added the stop loss program (back door draft) I want to say thanks to Aaron about this web. It gives me the freedom to express my opinion(something that the military can court martial you for)

The funny, in a rather disturbing way, universal truth throughout the military is that if you want to get out, the military keeps you in, while if you want to stay in, the kick you out. A buddy of mine, who I didn't agree with tried to re-enlist and they kicked him out for diebeeties(yeah, I just murdered the word, I'm drunk, fuck off). Now they let him star re-enlist with this condition but suddenly they decided he had to get separated after 8 years. Another guy, after his second trip to NA, not AA fucking Narcotics Annyonmus, the bastards made this waste of space due the full 4 years with him not qualifying to push a fucking broom. I give up! Who do these Bastards want? I want a diggit to come and explain this shit to me!

To JJ,

I spoke to my brother and as I said, he's a captain in the Army. He said that if you're a LT, there's no way you can resign. Even he can't resign although he has the right to, they will not honor it due to the war in iraq. You're pretty much stuck for the full 8 years unless you can find the right asses to kiss.

my name is eric s. and since my discharge i have been wandering the streets hoplessly with no luck of a job,( iam writing this letter from a public library and i have to be quick the librarian is looking at me strange) i have been collecting cans and have been sleeping at homeless shelterscan anyone help an ex- saylor out?? life on the streets has been rough, a man can only take a shower so many times in a public pool.....

Is it true what the GI Rights hotline says about going AWOL for over 30 days and turning yourself in to Fort Sill that you'll be discharged? If anyone knows some info on this or whom else to contact, please let me know. I want out of the Army!!!!

you are all losers for getting kicked out of the military i hope you never make anything of yourselveS...LOSERS!!!!!! LOWLIFE PEICES OF CRAP

I joined the Army in '03 spent 6 months in and got booted in AIT before I was shipped to darmstadt.
I popped coke on the piss test was addicted and continued to use it for about another 2-3 weeks and popped about 3 more tests. got confinement in a comfortable little grey cell. I got an OTH in lieu courtmartial. How do I get to where I can join the Police? or is that a lost cause? it's the only thing on my record, I have no convictions in the civilian world

Hey joe nave... i didn't get kicked out of the Army, I quit.

this message is to ken and all you other losers that got kicked out of any military branch for being a crackhead..ken first off you are writing this letter at 1230 a.m. you are probably fucked up on coke having one of those " pipe dreams" but in your case "line dreams" of becoming a cop or having a decent job in life...well buddy you fucked up...you rode the white pony and now its fucking you in the ass...."i want to be a cop" they might as well have made rick james a cop if they wanted a crackhead...you need to walk to the bathroom and look in the mirror and say out loud "i'm a cokehead" three times so it sinks in and you dont get your hopes up, then drive to the nearest ghetto and walk a couple of blocks til you find some black guy that you are gonna be sucking off for coke, (most likely rock cuz your gonna be a bum, and thats what bums do) and get used to your new life, as a cock sucking bum

man for joe saylor you seem real patriotic, you come on here and type a bunch of bull shit, look at your self you pop eye the salorman fag, talking about blowing off black guys, what a dam shame, your the reason why the navy is portrayed as a fag branch, you and your battle buddy should go fuck your self untill you relize that your nothing but a navy bitch mopping the deck for a shitty as pay grade of E-1, way to make your country proud "pop eyed the salor man"

JASON I went through the same thing your going through, i wanted out of the army, you have to awol for more than 31 days inorder to be dropped from your current unit, also turn your self in to your nearest army base not any military base. also at ft.sill you wil be placed in PCF unit, you be there for no more than 7 days, unless you have any tickets or convictions then you will have problems. also its not a brig its barracks that your placed in with other solider who want out, every one there is real lay back its not like boot camp, also when you turn your self in take some change of clothe, toothbrush ect... once your there they provide you with the standard military BDU during the processing most people smoke all day, clean, work out, or fuck off at the px, it not so bad its just hard beleaving pepoles statements, well mine really true, also you can call ft.sill and they explain to you the process. i hope i help you let me know which way you go at your situaion.

J. Martin you jarhead fuck that could not hack it out in the military, i may be a sailor man ( look how you spelled it you illiterate fuck) "salor" no wonder you joined the army, they saw you coming from a mile away and reeled you in with your poor grammar, and now you say you work for law inforcement, doing what?? you cant even spell right, do you clean the cells out every night or something, maybe shine boots, then you have the nerve to talk about my branch of service, when poor old pussy boy j. martin had to go awol cuz he was a disgrace to his country, and to hiself....shut the fuck up and stop sticking up for your bouyfriend ken you bitch

J. Martin you jarhead fuck that could not hack it out in the military, i may be a sailor man ( look how you spelled it you illiterate fuck) "salor" no wonder you joined the army, they saw you coming from a mile away and reeled you in with your poor grammar, and now you say you work for law inforcement, doing what?? you cant even spell right, do you clean the cells out every night or something, maybe shine boots, then you have the nerve to talk about my branch of service, when poor old pussy boy j. martin had to go awol cuz he was a disgrace to his country, and to hiself....shut the fuck up and stop sticking up for your boyfriend ken you bitch

i had to get back on here and just tell you j. martin that they have a lot of programs that teach you how to spell, when i look back at the comments you left me i see about 10 mistakes " who learned you how to spoke" you hillbilly what did you do in the army stand a gate post?

ANON GHOST well its your turn buddy.....as i scroll up the pages of all these loser stories of pussies, i see yours, "im depressed" hahahah "i didnt get kicked out i quit" what a fag.... and you want to be a cop? you cant even serve your country let alone your city, your depressed you said it yourself, what are you going to be chasing someone and stop and fall to the ground crying? go kill yourself you pussy otherwise shutup

to Adam,
take the court marshall if possibl, why? like you said it is not elegal if you had no knowledge, im not sure the navy marine corps order but i know thats the case. one of my staff nco's did acualy use speed, went to court marshall wit ha statement from his wife that said she was pissed at him and as a result slipped the drug in his coffe, the case was thrown out. to anyone else who is up on oth for urinalisis, remeber this. and dont forget that for the most part employers dont even care, chances are today they smoke when they go home, plus they have no way to check why you got that discharge, and remeber you can get oth through med discharge as well. you all had the balls to serve so fuckem if they dont want you anymore. fact is you just got promoted to civilian, now everyone in has to call you sir

I have a question for you military lawyers. (I didn't mean that sarcasticly) I have a brother that joined the army pre 9/11 and went awol also pre 9/11. He was in the reserves and playing in the Army band. One weekend he refused to go to drill and hasn't been since 9/11. He's afraid to come back to this country because he thinks he'll be arrested at the airport and face life in prison or the firing squad for being a deserter during a time of war. Does anyone have an idea what he may be facing if he comes home and turns himself in?

Arron,
I have to say that your site is great. Although I was Honorably discharged in May 2005 alas, I am here. My boyfriend is an E-5 in the Navy and he confessed to me that he did coke Sunday before last. Well sadly, there was a command sweep on Monday morning needless to say he already knows he is screwed with a possible OTH but can you appeal that while you are still active duty? Also,he has served 4yrs prior to this enlistment he did an immediate reenlistment meaning he recieved an honorable discharge certificate but, no DD214 can he still get his VA benefits? please write back at txsweetheart81@comcast.net

I just wanted to say I am so sorry for mispelling your name Aaron. :) Keep up the good work. And Thank you in advance to your generous advice. Take Care.

well sadly to say kristin your boyfriend is 1. fucked and 2. a crackhead...he is on the roosevelt i presume due to the time estimates you left...he will get an oth, that is all, oh wait and a bus ticket and a free ride to the gate where just a short walk will lead him to oceanview(that is a good spot to start his life as a crack smoking bum) and maybe you would be able to swing by there at night and see him seliing himself for dope, also tell him i said how proud i am to be in the same branch of service as him, and i will laugh very hard to see him walking outside the gates.....pick your men wiser next time kristin, you might as well have been going to a homeless shelter showing your body off, now your gonna be supporting a guy that wont even be able to get a decent job EVER in life, i hope this letter sees you well

joe navy is tough, man that guy knows everything. Good luck joe navy your a stud..probably a lame ass e1 fresh outta high school. Scrub some decks boatsman mate woosterj, and stop posting advice. You dont know shit about the real world.. sorry you got so many wedgies in high school TOUGH GUY.

i also scroll up looking for your loser story of your anti-military whining and your pussy story of why your not in the military but i cannot find it....from the look of your poor spelling (boatsman mate?) you were probably in the army? am i right? and i got wedgies in high school? man you fag, i am just here to let people know that they fuck there life up after disgrace themsevles by getting kicked out of the military, so fasty 77 go fuck your mother you bitch

c. jackson.........tell your trader of a brother that he might as well have been flying those airplanes into the twin towers he is a disgrace to his country..."the army reserves band" what a joke...was that to tough for him? what a fuckin pansy...tell him to stay gone...our country is better without him.....he should go play the skin flute in iraq

Joe Navy,
I can appreciate your views and support your right to express them. You no doubt are a repeat sailor of the year and one of the Navy's proudest. I can't defend the choices my brother made, he has to live with those decisions for the rest of his life and people like you will always be around to remind him of how badly he fucked himself by doing so. That's what makes this country so great. We allow assholes like you to express themselves without any consiquences. You are safe hiding behind the internet while you spout your hatred and degridation upon others. In many ways you are like the terrorist we fight against everyday. Your anninimity allows you to hurt others while keeping your identity well hidden. Not one of those bastards has the balls to face those they hate face to face and only attack those who are least able to defend themselves. You have no honor, pride or espirit de corps. you are a spineless parasite who enjoys hurting those already hurting. You are a mental terrorist and I support your right to be so. i have been deployed twice and placed in harms way once and it has taught me one thing I want to share with you. Of all the people you have ragged on you have never given one piece of helpful advice based on your personal experience. That means like those who mindlessly attack this country you are affiliated with them in your desire to hurt those that have proven to be imperfect. People make mistakes and unfortunately there are those like you who take advantage of those mistakes by rubbing their face in it. What sick joy do you derive from that Joe navy? What in that pea brain of yours finds joy in the sufferung of othres? What is the difference between you and those we fight against who harm physically, mentally and emotionally those who have done more to themselves than you ever could? What purpose do you serve when you take the weak to make yourself appear to be strong? I bet you've never held the hand of a marine who lost his legs right up to his penis and has a young wife he will never be able to please again. Have you ever spent time at a VA hospital with a 21 year old who will wear a shit bag on his side for the rest of his life because an RPG blew a hole in his HUMVEE. I wonder if you know how to console a fellow sailor who lost his best friends in a surprize attack on his ship by those who find joy in hurting others. now you feel justified in attacking my brother whom you've never met simply because at 19 he made a fucked up decision and now upon further reflection seeks an avenue to undo that mistake. What an asshole/ hypocritt you are. If subjected to what some of these men have been through you would probably shit your pants and get discharged on a psyche undesirable. It's easy for you to judge these men because you feel safe onboard a ship and will never have to make that terrible decision to get up from behind the safety of your hiding place and risk your life to save a wounded soldier, sailor or airman. So stay safe Joe Navy. Keep hiding your true feelings of cowardice and continue to attack those weaker than you. But when you put on that uniform remember to wear the turbon of your true commrads. The enemies of this country who pray on those least able to defend themselves, that's the sign of a true terrorist. It's people like you who made Stalin, Hitler and Tojo so popular 60 years ago. This country is made up of all types, some stronger than others some weaker. You aren't a predator, you're a scavenger sitting in a dead tree waiting for those to die someone else mortally wounded. When you look in the mirror do you see an American or a hate filled wanna be who has never and probably never will do anything more than wear the uniform others have died in to give you the opportunity to pick on the weak. You are a real big man all by yourself. But in a room of real men you are an undercover fag, fucking those wounded souls who don't have the strength to turn over and look into the eyes of their real enemy. I was in and now am going back in thanks to some waivers granted me. I hope we run into one another on a bright shiney day in the middle of a crowd so others can see what must be done with people like you who hate for no God given reason. I would look you in the eye, explain what every ribbon on my uniform is for and kick your fucking ass for each shipmate i've burried, each Marine that lost what we all hold most precious and the airman who went back for that dead serviceman who we all would refuse to leave behind. We'd even go back for your sorry ass no matter how much shit you had packed in your skivvy's. It's not about the things we fucked up Joe navy, it's about the things we can make right with the time we have left. Get your shit together and stop hurting others for no reason shipmate.

Hi Kristen
depending how much water they drank, how much drugs they used, and when they did em, etc they may still get away with doing coke. I know some people who did drugs the morning of a test (about 8 hours before the test) and still passed

and Joe Navy you are a scumbag.

c. jackson i see i hit a soft spot, and that brings a smile to my face...look at how long you wrote, its so damn funny, as i read your letter i laugh out loud, as to how much i angered you...but one thing still stays the same amongst all of this YOUR BROTHER IS A PUSSY MOTHERFUCKER THAT WAS IN THE "ARMY RESERVES BAND WENT AWOL DURING A TIME OUR COUNTRY NEEDED HIM THE MOST AND HE IS STILL GONE and you have the nerve to cal me a coward? all your brother had to do was go in twice a month and his sorry spineless ass coudlnt even do that, play a fucking instrument man what a fuckin pansy....and then here you go with your oscar written performance, of holding hands at a va hospital this, and my brother is a coward that, shut the hell and try to sell your little stroies somewhere else you loser, i wish we could line your brother up, and have all the people that lost love ones in 9/11 come and spit in his face, because thats what he did to them, he turned his yellow back on our country he is in the FUCKING RESERVES FOR CHRIST SAKES, THE ARMY BAND!!! what kind of fuck goes awol from that?? so to sum it up c. jackson...your BROTHER IS A PUSSY I HOPE HE DIES A PUSSY...

p.s. Kristin your boyfriend is going to pop dont let anyone tell you other wise...i just had a buddy kicked out after he did coke three days before the test and just had four nanograms ove the cutoff so dont let these people lie to you...call me JOE NAVY...THE 13TH DESCIPLE I BRING THE TRUTH IT MAY HURT BUT THATS YOU FAULT

Joe Navy
I will only allow one more of your incorrect asshat posts before I start deleting all of them. use it wisely.

PS: I did not lie when I stated some people use drugs the same day as they passed a piss test.

WELL AARON YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPIT ON THE VERY FUNDAMENTALS THAT LET THIS COUNTRY BE FREE THE 1ST AMMENDENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH...HOW CAN YOU TAKE THAT AWAY? I AM JUST HERE GIVING MY OPINION LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, THAT IS ONLY FAIR.....AND KRISTIN YOUR BOYFRIEND IS GOING TO POP....I SEE IT HAPPEN EVRYDAY....SO PLAN AHEAD NOW

>WELL AARON YOU ARE ABOUT TO SPIT ON THE VERY FUNDAMENTALS THAT LET THIS COUNTRY BE FREE THE 1ST AMMENDENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH...HOW CAN YOU TAKE THAT AWAY?

how ignorant sounding is that? can I just go into the white house and call the president a fucking scumbag... or congress and do it? whenever I please?

you come onto my site and use voracious language to try to make yourself feel important and make others feel bad. I can let it stand, but my job is to make this page useful.

if all the posts just go back and forth and say asshole asshole asshole the posts may be about you, but they would derail the point of the page.

add value or go elsewhere.

I am not taking away anyone's 1st ammendment rights. you can create joe-navy-dig-it-judgemental-asshole.com
and spout off freely there, I just have little or no time for it here.

on a side note, I bet the president would have popped on many drug tests had he been given the opportunity. in theory you can be one of the biggest fuck ups the military has ever seen and still do plenty well for yourself

well i am writing to retort, i feel obligated to my country to spout out freely and i will do so, this is a public site, [and seeing that the site is not entirely public, and that Joe is and annoying asshole, his ignorance was just edited by Aaron, the wonderful owner of this site]

Hey Navy Blue Joe,

I posted these events a wile back but why dont you a cherry seaman that has never been to any type of physical firefight in his life take a look at real life in the military. You might think I am a trader too. But you know what I did what I had to do to survive. You would know nothing about that. Oh and enjoy you nice bed you sleep in every night. I know you never spent more then a week in the field. Joe you want to know the sad part, when it's all said and done even with all the bad things that happened, I accomplished more in the military then you ever will.

The summer of 2004 I received an OTH discharge for the U.S. Army. I know that the Army is not for everyone. I was stupid and I chose to be an Airborne Infantry Paratrooper. Talk about a hard Army experience. From the first day that I arrived at my unit I had problems with E-4’s telling me an E-3 what to do. In addition, I could not stand the fact that I had to stand a Parade Rest for E-4’s (Specialists). I can’t even remember how many times the E-4’s preformed corrective training on me. Sometimes the E-4’s would make me do exercises till I would pass out. They always made sure to hydrate me with an I.V., and once the needle came out, it was back to more exercises. Life was hell for me. So our Unit gets the call to become part of Operation Freedom IV. My unit and I deploy. Now why they allowed me to deploy after all the issues I had, I will never know. Wile I was deployed I got to do some really cool things, and the E-4’s were being a lot nicer to me; probably because I now had a loaded M4. Then one night I was pulling PUC (Person Under States Control) guard. By the way a PUC has no rights under Geneva Convention. The PUC is the military’s dark little secret, but back to what happened. I was guarding this PUC. He was in very sad shape; he had been all shot up. The E-4 that was guarding the PUC with me gave the PUC a cigarette. I kind of felt bad for the PUC, knowing that he was going to be executed. So several hours later the PUC signals to me that he would like a cigarette. Please note that I had been smoking in front of him all night. I gave the PUC a lit cigarette. Well anyway I got caught. I do not know how, but my team leader knew. I kept my mouth shut. I did not tell that the E-4 on the guard shift with me gave him one first.

Now this is when my life becomes a real hell. Things start flying down hill for me. I was put in a different Platoon within my same company. I continue to conduct missions with my new platoon between smoke sessions. Several nights later I was call into my Platoon sergeant SFC Adams’s tent. Prior to entering the tent my M4 was taken from me by my squad leader SSG Elridge. Now I am inside of the tent and SSG Elridge is guarding the only entrance/exit to the tent. It’s just SFC Adams and me in the tent. SFC Adams starts pushing me around. All I can do is try my best to stand a Parade Rest. That evening my platoon sergeant, SFC Adams makes it clear to me, if I go on another mission with his platoon he will see to it that I will not return. Without any question in my mind I knew if I went out on another mission with him I was going to die. The following day our platoon was called up for a mission that would be conducted that evening. Please note I am not a bitch, but I was scared for the first time since I entered Afghanistan. I was called into my commander’s tent. My commander CPT Condrey was holding a piece of paper in his hand. Then CPT Condrey asks me if I would be joining my platoon on the mission that was to be conducted this evening. I didn’t know what to say. By the way SFC Adams is also in the tent. I look around the room and SFC Adams is staring at me almost like he is looking through me. Finally after several minutes I caved, and told CPT Condrey that I would not join my platoon on the mission this evening. Then CPT Condrey looks at the piece paper in his hand and starts reading it to me. What do you know it’s my rights. The son of a bitch had a piece of paper in his hand the whole time with my rights on it.

About a month later I got Court Marshaled inside of the dining facility tent without a lawyer. Please note it was only a Summary Court Marshal, so the Army is not required to provide me with a lawyer. I don’t know but any Court Marshal in a tent on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan seems a little bit shady to me. Anyway they hit me with about 12 charges. I beat about half of them. In the end I got the maximum sentence of a Summary Court Marshal. Lose of all rank wow I went from private (PFC/E-3), to private (PV1/E-1), I lost 2/3 of one month’s pay, and I got 30 days confinement. For me it was a real treat to leave Afghanistan and go to Manheim Military Prison in Germany. I remember one of the questions they ask me on the evaluation when I got to the Prison was how do you feel about being confined here. I looked up at the Sergeant and told him I was happy to be here. No more bullets firing at me, no more nightly rocket attacks, and best of all I get three hot meals a day. I did my time, and I was sent back to my stationed base. Several months later I was chaptered out of the Army with an OTH discharge. Thankfully I was discharged prior to my unit’s return. I really would like to get my discharge upgraded. I think maybe if I write a book in vivid detail maybe I can get some political support. I think a good name for the book will be Inside Conclusions Lead to Political Resolutions. I wrote this because knowledge is the key and the more people know the better.

So Navy Blue Joe I don't even whish these event on a shitbag like you

Anti-political Agenda

Aaron Wall please let joe respond to me i want to hear what a seaman like him has to say about Unforgiving Reality.

ANTI,
Damn that was a tough story and hey there is nothing i can say to that one...i would have done the same thing...i am only coming to this website to reply to the people that dog the military for their own fuckups...popping on a piss test and going awol....in your case that is a whole nother story....and here you are talking shit to me..."i sleep in a nice bed every night" whose choice was it to be a fucking paratrooper and join the fucking army anyways? so dont dog me because i am getting paid the same amount to be on a ship...i made the smart choice...so when it is all said and done i still have a life and you are a stupid fuck with an oth....so go and sell your sob-story that you most likely caked up(any smart person would have brought up the fact that you were threatened by a superior)and try to see if you can sell that hogwash to some shitbag writer....eat a dick and i hope you work for minimum wage your whole life you fuckup

to those who stumbled upon this page thinking of joining the military (and yes I can get the page to rank for that if I want to - as that is what I do for a living)

those of you reading Joe Navy's words realize that if you join the military those vile disgusting words from judgemental scumbags are not uncommon.

Joe freely speaks for the entire military system when he says he wants people to be fucked for life...if you join the military you may end up fucking up your mind.

I hope joe navy doesnt get banned from this sight, hes my new hero. I did my military time with alot of gung ho dudes like you.. mainly punks that have never been out of their own state prior to the military, but studs like you who knew everything. I know my spelling sucks, but I know for a fact that I earn way more than you do.... (what maybe 1700.00 a month to bunk up with a bunch of other dudes, run damage control exercises all day, work insanely long hours at sea with no overtime pay, oh and get missles lauched at your ships, sounds like your the smart one. "Accelerate your life" toughguy, and "dont ask dont tell" joe blow.

I was in the US Army for 9 1/2 years had a flawless career got in trouble with the civilian police on a not military related issue and they fucked me with a (OTH) other than honorable discharge i was going to fight it while i was still in but was told if i do the Army will prosicute me as well

JIM

To qoute a person that thinks he is perfect, "joe navy(c. jackson your brother is still a trader)" My favorite part is where he attempted to spell the word "traitor". I find that entertaining. Anyways, to get on with my real reason to post here. I am currently in the Navy and at one point I thought it would be the greatest thing to happen in my life. I was wrong. I realize now how corrupt my superiors really are. The CO calls in about every day and tells us that he won't be in due to "family-related" issues. I'm Active Duty but stationed at a Reserve Center in Wisconsin. All of the 1st Class Petty Officers that work with me in my Command swear they know everything about everything. So, when I know they are wrong and I use my job-related references (MILPERSMAN) to prove them wrong, they claim I cannot second guess their authority because they are "1st Class Petty Officers in the United States Navy" and I'm just an E-2 (Seaman Apprentice). So, from what I've gathered within the last year of my service is that I cannot prove anyone wrong, whether they are wrong or not, due to my low rank and therefore low importance in the world of military life. But of course I would be expected to save a person like this if for example they were drowning or had been wounded. Now who in their right mind would save some jack-ass like my co-workers or Joe Navy? I would not. Which gave me the impression that maybe I'm not qualified to be in this wonderful (Sarcasm!) military. I cannot see myself saving someone that is drowning when the day before they were taking enjoyment and a sense of power by belittling and emotionally abusing me. An example is the YN1 at my Command saying that had I been her exact age and joined the exact time she did, I would still be lower rank than her because she is obviously better than I am. What kind of bullshit is that? Only in the military could someone say something like that to another human being and not get in trouble for it because again, she is a 1st Class Petty Officer which means she is better than I am in every way. I disagree. I am 10 times the person she is because I have atleast some respect for people. All I'm basically asking is what is the quickest way to get out? I want out now, and I don't want it to take 3, 4, or 5 months of my life going though trials and signing paper work. I want out and I want out now, before my life can sink lower than it is. Please give me some advice on how to quickly end this bullshit.

WELL J. KELLEY....YOU HAD TO TALK CRAP HUH?...LETS SEE YOU ARE AT A RESERVE BASE AS AN E-2 WHICH EASILY TELLS ME THAT YOU ARE ARE A MILINGERING PEICE OF CRAP UP THERE BECAUSE OF A HEALTH ISSUE OR JUST BECAUSE YOUR PUSSY IS SORE..AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO TALK CRAP TO ME.???YOU ARE WORKING SHORE DUTY YOU PEICE OF SHIT...YOU DONT EVEN KNOW THE NAVY....YOU HAVE IT MADE OVER THERE AND YOU WANT OUT....GO AND TELL YOUR LPO HOW MUCH OF A FAGGOT YOU ARE(YOU WONT BE LYING) AND YOU WILL GET OUT...SO IN THE MEAN TIME...HAVE A NICE TIME SLEEPING IN YOUR BARRACKS AND SUCK A COCK YOU POOR EXCUSE FOR A SAILOR...GO KILL YOURSELF AND MAKE US PROUD

I love it how Joe claims to be some hot shot in the Navy but he made a comment on my post within three hours of me posting it. What it looks like is he's a fag with no life that defends all of his precious superiors by allowing them to anal rape him with no lubrication while he sits on this page and constantly refreshes the page until someone posts something so he can then relieve his built up tension of getting ass reamed by his beloved Chiefs by spouting off bullshit because he's so dissatisfied with his life. We all know it's "The needs of the Navy". So me being sent to a Reserve Center doesn't mean I'm injured. I'm guessing they needed a PN because I am, afterall, a PN. So they sent me where they needed me. So shut your cum-guzzling mouth. Pitiful excuse for a man. Go drown yourself in the cum that you swallow.

I check this site once a fuckin day you fuck...what the fuck are you doing to see i wrote back....you are on that base because of some reason not that you are a pn...im a abh you pussy...you do sea duty first.."i cant stand it here, im a pn, i sit at a desk all day on my perfect little shore duty" shut the fuck up and give me your moms address so i can bust in her and let her give birth to a kid with balls, you fucking disgrace...i am gonna contact your command and tell them about this site you pussy so you can get fucked for this...i wish i could slap your mother for going nine months of holding a shitbag like you in her womb....i am an e-2 and try to correct e-5's your such a cocksucker...you have no idea whatsoever, how it is to do a deployment you pansy....so leave your moms number so i can front the bill to have her tubes tied...you bitch

omg, he's an abh! that explains everything! handlers think they are Gods gift to the navy. way to go there guy. have fun moving planes and i hope no one accidently pushes you overboard.

J Martin OTH RETIRED, so you were in the same boat I was and went AWOL for over 30 days? So this works then? When did you do this? Can you e-mail me at worthenja2000@yahoo.com and provide me some info on this? Anyone on here please tell me this works and how to do it and give me your stories. Thanks.

>I'm Active Duty but stationed at a Reserve Center in Wisconsin. All of the 1st Class Petty Officers that work with me in my Command swear they know everything about everything. So, when I know they are wrong and I use my job-related references (MILPERSMAN) to prove them wrong, they claim I cannot second guess their authority because they are "1st Class Petty Officers in the United States Navy" and I'm just an E-2 (Seaman Apprentice). So, from what I've gathered within the last year of my service is that I cannot prove anyone wrong, whether they are wrong or not, due to my low rank and therefore low importance in the world of military life.

Posted by: JOE NAVY at August 20, 2005 05:15 PM
Posted by: joe navy at August 20, 2005 04:24 PM

Once a day, right? That looks like twice to me you sorry shit stain, and they're not even two hours a part. You can't even lie as well as other Navy members. We know you'll never be a recruiter. Are you really in the military or just a flake that works at McDonalds and lives with your mom? "All of the 1st Class Petty Officers that work with me in my Command swear they know everything about everything. So, when I know they are wrong and I use my job-related references (MILPERSMAN) to prove them wrong, they claim I cannot second guess their authority because they are "1st Class Petty Officers in the United States Navy" and I'm just an E-2 (Seaman Apprentice)." You moron, I was talking about 1st Class Petty Officers and you said E-5. E-5s are 2nd Classes you spineless prick. You represent the Core Values of the Navy. The honor of belittling other people. The courage to do it over the internet. The commitment to get reamed in the ass and still have a smile. I salute you and your loose asshole. Bravo-zulu shipmate, for a job well done.

JASON look on this page for my story, it explaines everything, I did this in march of 05 but remeber to turn your self in to your nearest army base not navy, marines, or air force, it has to be an army base or your going to be there for a while untill army mp come for you and there not in a rush eaither. some army base's can out process you from the base that you turn yourself in, all i can say is dont awol too long like 180 after that your going to levens worth, good luck call this number and ask for mrs. willams ask her how to out process she should explaine to you honestly, 580-442-3112

if you want to get back in file for a new social security card and keep shut once in 3-6 mos present to an official judge you security clearence and show him you prior service records you are already accepted back it will look bad on them to kick you out for descrimination

Hi,
My fiancee enlisted in the army and "did not adapt to the military lifestyle." He is extremely depressed and wants out. He is still in basic (week 8 of 14). He's at Fort Benning in Georgia. I just found out today from his commander that he is being granted an els. That's excellent news!! I think. Can anyone give me more information on the ELS (Entry Level Separation) procedure? Do you know anyone who has been through it that I could speak to? I've heard the time from when you get the discharge to when you actually get out is painfully long and could put him into worse depression. Please let me know if you have any information. Thank you so much.

Hello!! i was discharged in october 2004, i had joine din Oct 2001, i had failed a piss test after going UA for 3 days, they gave me 60 days restriction for UA, and 60 restriction for poppign the piss test, i did 120 consecutive days of restriction, and i feel they only kept me onboard that long is because i was an engineer, a very good engineer as a matter of fact, no prior reports filed against me, and averaged a 3.8 on my last eval.... but i did my time, and got the boot and i couldnt be happier, i am now a police officer, so you know what, nobody, and i mean nobody actually checks for your "real" discharge, becasue it doesnt say it on my dd214, they just took my word for it.

and to the woman above me, about the ELS, you arnt "actually" in the military till you graduate boot camp, Entry level discharge will be like he was never even there...(poof) forgotten, life goes on, enjoy your hubby!

Okay guys here is my storie. I was in bootcamp and I couldn't hack it. The Navy life was for me but i couldn't get over my arrogance. I made a 79 on the asvab and quit half way thourgh the thing. My recruiters busted there ass to get me up to great lakes and i thought that the navy was going to bust there ass to keep me beacause i am smart. But before i knew it i was getting a re4 and seprated from the navy. This happened 3 months ago. Now i am back at home looking for a job. But for anyone who wants to get back in there is a way. You can go into the army national gaurd the go active if you want. This is th course of action i am taking. The recuirter is waiting for me to call him and come in. So guys there is a way if you want to go back in. And Arron thanx for creating a site like this. But for all the people who got kicked out for ua I have no sympathy for. If you knew what you were doing then you deserved to get out. But if you didn't then i am sorry that you gor a raw deal. Also for some people the military is the only option for them to better there selves and there lives. Some people may think it's shit and at some parts it is, but for me it's a way to provide for my mom and my wife to be.

LISTEN TO ME, I WAS IN FOR MORE THAN 10 YEARS,
IF YOU ARE ALREADY OUT OF THE SERVICE YOU ARE LUCKY. WHY TRY TO GET BACK IN JAIL AGAIN,(MILITARY). ARE YOU REALLY NUTS. CIVILIAN LIFE IS MUCH BETTER, BETTER FREEDOM, MONEY, MORE TIME WITH FAMILY, BETTER LOOKING WOMEN. WHY WOULD SOMEONE TRY TO RE-ENTER JAIL. WHY BE PATRIOTIC IF YOUR PRESIDENT IS A DUMB ASS, WITH A LOW IQ( I HATE REPUBLICANS) AND HIS ADMINISTRATION IS KILLING INNOCENT IRAQIS FOR OIL. THE WAR IS BASED ON FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND TREATS/FEAR ON THE AMERICAN PUBLIC. I WAS IN THE SERVICE FOR 10 YEARS AND I GLAD THAT I AM OUT. FUCK THE MILITARY AND THE PRESIDENT AND HIS ADMINISTRATION. IF CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT SEND THEIR DAUGHTERS AND SONS TO IRAQ ,THEN AND ONLY THEN, I WILL LEAD THEM INTO BATTLE.